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[Shadowstar39]

This is about graphics, frame rates, and expectations. I am not talking about story, or plot as that is a different can of worms and would need it's own dedicated mile long thread to dissect.

Just something I noticed, especially on game related subs on reddit, steam and even more general forums like here.

Most recent example: Stalker 2.
I see so many people being super negative and harsh on the games forums.
I seen a bunch saying that the graphics aren't much better than the original game and then went on to compare it to TLOU2. Saying that they expect that fidelity in 2024. (not taking account that this is an open world game, made by a tiny team in comparison and in a Eastern bloc country, in the midst of a war, yet they still got it out. ) Saying that the trees and textures look straight out of the originals, and they feel "ripped off".
I just don't understand how people can expect all games to be like tlou.

Then there are the other groups complaining about the AI either working too good, or not working to their liking. That the enemies are doing their own thing and not on you 24/7. (the game has a system for this and needs tweaking but it is working. Some complaining about getting a refund because it's not perfect out the gate and unacceptable. Yet the game is playable and not incomplete like cyberpunk, nms or something.
Some complaining about having inventory encumbrance (weight limits on what you can carry). Complain on things broken sure, but calling the game a rip-off because it has a few bugs?

Which makes me wonder, is this a generation divide or are there so many desperate for a shooter that they play a game that wouldn't interest them in the first place? We haven't had many single player, gritty, military esq type shooters in almost a decade, outside of multiplayer like cod and bf, which sp is mostly on rails.

Stalker 2 is just one example, but I have seen others. Games that I think are visually stunning, still get calls for "its not running at 60 fps all the time , and has 'Frame pacing" or drops to 50 here and there, and then calling it unplayable. Maybe it's just me, I can play a game with lower fps. I played doom and wolf3d in a small shrunken window in the middle of my 386's monitor just to play it, and was happy. I played Quake 3 at 24 fps but still got on with my friends using dialup and was happy. Eventually i upgraded my cpu for that scenario but i had fun even with the lower fps. Tons of games from the early 2000s and I don't recall people being so batshit over visuals or frame rates (well mutliplayer shooters fps, and people turned off visual settings for this).

My thread here isn't just about a specific game it's about a mindset. I see it all the time and I wonder where it comes from. It seems to me that people are more negative in general, pickier about a few frames per second, or frame pacing (something I don't even see or know what it is), expect every game to be turned up to 11 in visuals, have 4k max settings.

Asking questions and critique is good. Being unreasonable and expecting miracles or that every game be top of the line in visuals is just ridiculous.

Thoughts

 

[winjer]

The modern studio modus operandi is to launch a broken game, receive negative reviews, then complain that gamers are too demanding.
As if wanting a product that actually works, could ever be construed as some extremist demand from consumers.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

People just like to complain online (myself included). I would say almost any hobbies enjoyment is increased tenfold by not looking at any social media about said hobby.

 

[bosnianpie]

Yes, back in my days gamers were real men. Nowdays you can get reported in an online lobby for saying someone likes penis.

 

[acm2000]

the problem is people not experiencing anything for themselves and just respouting nonsense they read elsewhere whether its true or not, its social medias fault.

 

[DanEON]

we have many more games now, so people are more critical and selective.

 

[Cornbread78]

Gamers are whiny & entitled af. Anyone denies that needs to go touch grass

 

[MikeM]

No. Back in the day, games had to be tested thoroughly as there was no avenue to patch later.

Nowadays, its “release now and fix later to get $$$” instead of launching when a game is in a state to be playable. The nerve, especially considering now they try to upsell you to “deluxe” and other versions for an extra 20% or so.

Gamers need to take a stand with their wallets.

 

[diffusionx]

Yes, they are, but the companies are not holding up their end of the bargain either.

 

[Crayon]

Idk but whatever the answer, you'll have to consider the internet distortion field.

 

[GHG]

The issue is more that the marketing cycles are too long and more often than not the marketing/PR people over-hype and over-promise. More often than not, the developers fall short and that results in disappointment.

Then there are the times when the product had the capacity to deliver on its promises but it's outright broken at launch (stalker 2 is one of many of these examples) - this leads to frustration.

It's not a new phenomenon, it's just that with the Internet it can seem overwhelming, especially for the people who might find some enjoyment in broken products (there seems to be no shortage of these people, and I'm always left questioning why) or those who weren't overly exposed to the re-release marketing cycle which was full of lies.

 

[GymWolf]

Being apologetic on behalf of devs that release unfinished games was definitely in my bingo card for this week.

 

[Damigos]

They should be but they're not.
Gamers play all kinds of sh*t and its led to EA and Ubisoft making billions. The mobile sh*t is another story all together

 

[Mayar]

I don't think so, people online have always been like that. I'm 40+ and I started my online life with the game Ultima Online and believe me, even in those days, there was enough toxicity. It's already a kind of culture of communication on the Internet. As for the negative attitude towards games, here most likely the general fatigue of players from the state of the industry as a whole has had an effect, plus the constant releases of games in a very bad state. And to be honest, you gave a very bad example of Stalker 2, I assure you that the game was accepted more than well here. Because believe me, any other game from any other studio - EA or Ubisoft, for example. If they released a game in the state in which this game is now, they would simply burn it at the stake, the topic of memes would be 50 pages long for sure =)

 

[SlimySnake]

Gamers have definitely become more entitled over the years. They want everything to be 60 fps, feature next gen tech like Lumen and Nanite, and run at a locked 60 fps. On $399 consoles from 4 years ago.

PC gamers i can understand. We are idiots who spend thousands of dollars on CPUs and GPUs so if a game comes out and runs like crap on the latest and greatest hardware then yes, you will hear complaints.

But console gamers turned into PC gamers this gen as well which I find bizarre. We all were used to 30 fps games since literally the 90s and now we are like 60 fps or bust, but i wont pay more than $500 for this console either.

Stalker looks amazing to me. People saying it doesnt look good are probably playing in performance mode.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

It's the year 2003, Tomb Raider The Angel of Darkness releases. I buy it day one. Had a blast. Still remember the experience.

Me in 2024: "I feel like the PS5 Pro modes for GT7 are busted...look at all the clean af car models with that ray tracing reflections everywhere...but i see jaggies on the electricity poles 10 miles from the screen. This is unplayable. Lemme go from 120hz to 60hz and see what happens. Oh it's good. i'm happier now" me as i play the game, cause it's just another game --> :|

So yeay...i'm lil bitch in 2024.

 

[Esparadrapo]

If you don't complain you get stomped over.

What are you waiting for? For a fucking CEO to go to your house, fuck your dog and kill your wife?

 

[GHG]

Gamers have definitely become more entitled over the years. They want everything to be 60 fps, feature next gen tech like Lumen and Nanite, and run at a locked 60 fps. On $399 consoles from 4 years ago.

Who the fuck is demanding Lumen and Nanite? Serious question.

 

[rofif]

yes of course but for a simple reason - social media and not thinking for themselves.
People (even if they think they don't) really eat shit up. They think what influencers think, they repeat memes shown and when it's finally time to play the game, they already have a judgement on it.
And that judgement is not their own. Even if they think it is.
Have you ever played a game COMPLETELY BLIND, not knowing there is a tlou2 leaks situation happening, not knowing people are mad, not knowing to make fun of abby or forspoken... You paly the game, have great fun and then you go online and the shitstorm about the game is insane. Turns out you played straight tlou2 trash... according to social media opinion.
Meanwhile, someone else who is going to play the same game internet osmosis of it's hate, even if they tried their darndest, they will not start the game with open mind. The opinion they will form will be HEAVILY influenced by the drama around the game pre-release, drama about leaks, hate for the game on twitter etc.

Now Please don't say "lol that's because forspoken is trash" because while, YES, it is a perfect example, it's just a 7/10 game that people somehow love to hate.

But it is like this with almost every game. most notable being tlou2. I was super hyped for it, then the partially fake leaks happened, hate happened and memes happened and it COMPLETELY stopped all the hype I had.
I started the game HATING it. I was playing it and not liking it but somewhere around the middle of the game, I decided to keep going and the game won me over. I've decided to f everyone and think for myself.
Since then I try to play the game disregarding it's public opinion (well more than less) and Forspoken turned out awesome for example. So what am I loosing here for forming my own opinion? Absolutely nothing.

Remember everyone. Negativity sells more views. Drama sells. Just a good game being just that is a rare breed.

 

[Hunter 99]

No. Back in the day, games had to be tested thoroughly as there was no avenue to patch later.

Nowadays, its “release now and fix later to get $$$” instead of launching when a game is in a state to be playable. The nerve, especially considering now they try to upsell you to “deluxe” and other versions for an extra 20% or so.

Gamers need to take a stand with their wallets.

 

[Bojji]

We are served crap many times, broken games with forced political bullshit. Poor performance, resolution, bugs? All that for full price.

Games are often fixed many months after release when price is much lower. Day one buyers are screwed.

Publishers think they can release any crap and make money...

When it comes to stalker, series fans knew what they would get. Those games were always bugged and janky, state of this game is probably the most shocking to console owners that never played previous games.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

No, but 30 years ago the pool of gamers was smaller and there was no large way that their sentiment could get conveyed back to the publishers.

 

[Shadowstar39]

we have many more games now, so people are more critical and selective.

This could be it too, but then you could just go play something else.

Although, for me, to complain about visuals or graphics, it would have to be unplayable or buggy like dragons flying backwards (skyrim).
Or something like I seen with Diablo 2 resurrected where on the switch version every character and npc with blond, white or red hair has black or grey hair instead. After 4 years it still hasn't been fixed or addressed.
People are silent on that because it's blizzard but are super critical on some smaller studio.

Social media also wasn't a thing in the ps1-> ps3 days either, at least not like now.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No. Back in the day, games had to be tested thoroughly as there was no avenue to patch later.

Nowadays, its “release now and fix later to get $$$” instead of launching when a game is in a state to be playable. The nerve, especially considering now they try to upsell you to “deluxe” and other versions for an extra 20% or so.

Gamers need to take a stand with their wallets.

It's why one's need to kick the FOMO and purchase problematic games when/if they are fixed later instead of launch. Usually there is a discount on them by then as well.

 

[pudel]

No. Back in the day, games had to be tested thoroughly as there was no avenue to patch later.

Nowadays, its “release now and fix later to get $$$” instead of launching when a game is in a state to be playable. The nerve, especially considering now they try to upsell you to “deluxe” and other versions for an extra 20% or so.

Gamers need to take a stand with their wallets.

True, but I make exemptions for games which I love and dont wanna see to die.

 

[Paasei]

I wouldn't call it any of that. Prices went up but quality not necessarily in terms of performance or simply buying a finished product.

Makes me more cautious with my purchases at least. If I have to pay I demand higher quality, too.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Yes, in fact, I think it's just that people have become all of those things. You see it a lot more frequently in social media and across other forms of entertainment.

 

[ungalo]

Performance/technical issues and monetization represent 95% of negative discourse. And those are topics that personally don't interest me that much.

I feel that for everything else, on the contrary people are far too lenient.

 

[GHG]

When it comes to stalker, series fans knew what they would get. Those games were always bugged and janky, state of this game is probably the most shocking to console owners that never played previous games.

With Stalker 2, while the original games were very janky at launch, this still manages to be worse in new ways:

Illustration

It's understandable given the situation that unfolded for the developers which is why I'm willing them on to fix it (and it's also why many people have been softer with their criticism than they would have otherwise), but the reality of the product as it is to day is what it is.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Yes. Standards are improving, at least a little for some. Some people talk too much hyperbole though.

 

[Saber]

I dunno about you, but I complain often about the products I buy.

Mostly because they aren't free, have nothing to do with being entitled. Already had my share of very low effort and broke games, so yes I think people should be way more critical and selective. And thats a good thing honestly, as devs can use the information to improve their products. Specially when games being broken and full of glitches is a trend nowadays.

 

[Dacvak]

This isn’t just with gaming. Everyone seems more negative, pickier, and entitled about everything these days. I blame social media.

 

[Humdinger]

This is about graphics, frame rates, and expectations. I am not talking about story, or plot as that is a different can of worms and would need it's own dedicated mile long thread to dissect.

[....] Stalker 2 is just one example, but I have seen others. Games that I think are visually stunning, still get calls for "its not running at 60 fps all the time , and has 'Frame pacing" or drops to 50 here and there, and then calling it unplayable. [....] Tons of games from the early 2000s and I don't recall people being so batshit over visuals or frame rates
[...]
My thread here isn't just about a specific game it's about a mindset. I see it all the time and I wonder where it comes from. It seems to me that people are more negative in general, pickier about a few frames per second, or frame pacing (something I don't even see or know what it is), expect every game to be turned up to 11 in visuals, have 4k max settings.

Asking questions and critique is good. Being unreasonable and expecting miracles or that every game be top of the line in visuals is just ridiculous.

Thoughts

Are gamers more negative, more picky, and more entitled than in earlier gens? Yeah, some probably are - and they are the ones you will hear from in those sorts of threads. Understand that most gamers aren't like that, though, today or in the past. They play the game and don't get all fussed about minor graphical shortcomings.

There have always been people who get overly focused on visuals, have unreasonable demands, are perfectionistic about what most people consider trivia. They lose the forest for the trees. They are also the type who will type long, detailed posts about technical minutae. I just yawn and move on.

 

[Mayar]

With Stalker 2, while the original games were very janky at launch, this still manages to be worse in new ways:



It's understandable given the situation that unfolded for the developers which is why I'm willing them on to fix it (and it's also why many people have been softer with their criticism than they would have otherwise), but the reality of the product as it is to day is what it is.

I'll just stand here and smoke, don't pay attention.

 

[Represent.]

Yes.

Just wait until Season 2 of TLOU comes out on HBO. When Joel dies, Do You think the backlash, hate, and blatant death threats towards the creators of the show by the TV audience will be even 1/100th of what it was from gamers?

Not even close - Gamers are immature, whiny fucks.

Not only that. Gamers are cheap.

Games provide by far the best amount of value per dollar in all of entertainment (movies, music, books, movies, etc) and yet all you hear is:

- i WoNt BuY THis GAem bECauSe iTs oNly 20 hOuRs
- a CoNSoLe tHaT PrOVidEs Me wItH 3000 hOuRs of EnTerTaINmEnT shOuLD OnLy coSt $299
- $70 iS toO mUcH fOr 200 hOuRs of EnTerTaInMenT
- dLC sHoUlD bE fReE

blah blah blah. just completely out of touch.

 

[diffusionx]

Yes.

Just wait until Season 2 of TLOU comes out on HBO. When Joel dies, Do You think the backlash, hate, and blatant death threats towards the creators of the show by the TV audience will be even 1/100th of what it was from gamers?

Not even close - Gamers are immature, whiny fucks.

Not only that. Gamers are cheap.

Games provide by far the best amount of value per dollar in all of entertainment (movies, music, books, movies, etc) and yet all you hear is:

- i WoNt BuY THis GAem bECauSe iTs oNly 20 hOuRs
- a CoNSoLe tHaT PrOVidEs Me wItH 3000 hOuRs of EnTerTaINmEnT shOuLD OnLy coSt $299
- $70 iS toO mUcH fOr 200 hOuRs of EnTerTaInMenT
- dLC sHoUlD bE fReE

blah blah blah. just completely out of touch.

go back to the Cyberpunk 2077 not getting a PS5 Pro patch thread if you want to see entitled.

 

[SlimySnake]

yes of course but for a simple reason - social media and not thinking for themselves.
People (even if they think they don't) really eat shit up. They think what influencers think, they repeat memes shown and when it's finally time to play the game, they already have a judgement on it.
And that judgement is not their own. Even if they think it is.
Have you ever played a game COMPLETELY BLIND, not knowing there is a tlou2 leaks situation happening, not knowing people are mad, not knowing to make fun of abby or forspoken... You paly the game, have great fun and then you go online and the shitstorm about the game is insane. Turns out you played straight tlou2 trash... according to social media opinion.
Meanwhile, someone else who is going to play the same game internet osmosis of it's hate, even if they tried their darndest, they will not start the game with open mind. The opinion they will form will be HEAVILY influenced by the drama around the game pre-release, drama about leaks, hate for the game on twitter etc.

Now Please don't say "lol that's because forspoken is trash" because while, YES, it is a perfect example, it's just a 7/10 game that people somehow love to hate.

But it is like this with almost every game. most notable being tlou2. I was super hyped for it, then the partially fake leaks happened, hate happened and memes happened and it COMPLETELY stopped all the hype I had.
I started the game HATING it. I was playing it and not liking it but somewhere around the middle of the game, I decided to keep going and the game won me over. I've decided to f everyone and think for myself.
Since then I try to play the game disregarding it's public opinion (well more than less) and Forspoken turned out awesome for example. So what am I loosing here for forming my own opinion? Absolutely nothing.

Remember everyone. Negativity sells more views. Drama sells. Just a good game being just that is a rare breed.

ive been on these forums since 2000.

I was there for the MGS2 debacle. You think TLOU2 had a negative reception? MGS2 was far far worse.

online discourse used to be far worse than it is today. System Warriors used to be far worse than it is today. Gamespot literally had to create a forum called System Wars to keep all the cunts isolated in there.

What's happening more recently are coordinated campaigns against games like Star Wars outlaws, Dragon Age, and AC Shadows thats different from what Forspoken, Halo infinite, and Callisto went through. Those games received criticism mainly because of their underwhelming gameplay while the twitter hate mob is after these new games for a very specific reason. It's gone from just gamers mocking buggy games like AC Unity, Mass Effect Andromeda and Days Gone to something far more politicized. Hopefully, it's a fad that ends when devs self correct and remove the woke elements from these games.

I do think Ubisoft, Bioware, and other devs releasing broken unfinished games led to this insane level of negativity. People were used to sub 30 fps games but they never expected games like Andromeda and AC Unity to launch in the state they did. I love those games but i cant exactly blame the bandwagon haters for ensuring those games never got a sequel. It was probably because of their hate that we ended up getting better quality releases from these studios.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Many gamers have seen monumental effort and care placed into development of previous entries and see the publishers nickel-and-diming enthusiasts for phoned-in releases with a myriad of issues and outdated assets.

I was there for the MGS2 debacle. You think TLOU2 had a negative reception? MGS2 was far far worse.

Worst sequel ever due to the bait-and-switch.

 

[Shadowstar39]

yes of course but for a simple reason - social media and not thinking for themselves.
People (even if they think they don't) really eat shit up. They think what influencers think, they repeat memes shown and when it's finally time to play the game, they already have a judgement on it.
And that judgement is not their own. Even if they think it is.
Have you ever played a game COMPLETELY BLIND, not knowing there is a tlou2 leaks situation happening, not knowing people are mad, not knowing to make fun of abby or forspoken... You paly the game, have great fun and then you go online and the shitstorm about the game is insane. Turns out you played straight tlou2 trash... according to social media opinion.
Meanwhile, someone else who is going to play the same game internet osmosis of it's hate, even if they tried their darndest, they will not start the game with open mind. The opinion they will form will be HEAVILY influenced by the drama around the game pre-release, drama about leaks, hate for the game on twitter etc.

Now Please don't say "lol that's because forspoken is trash" because while, YES, it is a perfect example, it's just a 7/10 game that people somehow love to hate.

But it is like this with almost every game. most notable being tlou2. I was super hyped for it, then the partially fake leaks happened, hate happened and memes happened and it COMPLETELY stopped all the hype I had.
I started the game HATING it. I was playing it and not liking it but somewhere around the middle of the game, I decided to keep going and the game won me over. I've decided to f everyone and think for myself.
Since then I try to play the game disregarding it's public opinion (well more than less) and Forspoken turned out awesome for example. So what am I loosing here for forming my own opinion? Absolutely nothing.

Remember everyone. Negativity sells more views. Drama sells. Just a good game being just that is a rare breed.

This is a good point, and I agree to a point. Although when story or whole genre of game is concerned, i take notice. The problem is our current polarized world.

The problem is there are a lot of ideological people now making games that weren't there 10+ years ago, or if they were , they were more reasonable. I see some of them wanting to kill off existing characters and I am like wtf..
I now wait for multiple reviews of people I trust before buying a game, but i don't go on a media blitz with info. I get basics, is it true to form of a genre i like? If so did they change it replace characters?

To be frank, I was part of the problem with tlou2. But a lot of that, at the time felt like an attack against older gamers by people like druckman. That launched right after the star wars sequels and other movies and games going that direction, attacking fans so I took it at face value. Plus all the bad mouthing of games I loved like days gone didn't help. I eventually bought the game (on sale for $10) and will give it a fair shake, well it's in my backlog.

That's about it, if its true to form, a genre I like, and not trying to shove a f2p gaas game as a single player rpg and push agenda, I will buy it.
After that is done, I avoid media like the plague and play it blind.

 

[BlackTron]

Gamers have definitely become more entitled over the years. They want everything to be 60 fps, feature next gen tech like Lumen and Nanite, and run at a locked 60 fps. On $399 consoles from 4 years ago.

PC gamers i can understand. We are idiots who spend thousands of dollars on CPUs and GPUs so if a game comes out and runs like crap on the latest and greatest hardware then yes, you will hear complaints.

But console gamers turned into PC gamers this gen as well which I find bizarre. We all were used to 30 fps games since literally the 90s and now we are like 60 fps or bust, but i wont pay more than $500 for this console either.

Stalker looks amazing to me. People saying it doesnt look good are probably playing in performance mode.

Gamers were trained to expect massive technological leaps in a short time without increasing cost. I got N64 for $250 and then DC for $199. Now, the deal is altered.

People are right to expect 60FPS in games where it makes a gameplay difference by now, but if you were holding on this long, you might want to accept no matter how much power the choice will always get made to add gfx and cut frames. PS6 will still have 30FPS games, though they will offer Pro to fix all those games targeting 30 on base of course. I wonder how many warriors who said 30FPS was actually a good thing finally figured out this was never going to stop and went PC this gen lol.

Just feels like power needs to increase until it's a bigger chore to find ways to improve the picture graphically than it is to steal the frames. Obviously AI is getting there much faster but not there yet. I'm pretty sure in the 2D days, if they felt they could make a game look much better in screenshots by halving the framerate, they would. It didn't benefit the situation much, so they didn't. Wait until we're there again.

 

[Mayar]

Gamers were trained to expect massive technological leaps in a short time without increasing cost.

You are generalizing too much, I assure you that there is a huge percentage of players for whom the game world, dialogues, plot, systems, etc. are much more important. And graphics for them are just a nice bonus, almost all fans of the RPG and JRPG genres are like that, we still play 2.5D games and enjoy them =)

 

[MikeM]

Gamers have definitely become more entitled over the years. They want everything to be 60 fps, feature next gen tech like Lumen and Nanite, and run at a locked 60 fps. On $399 consoles from 4 years ago.

PC gamers i can understand. We are idiots who spend thousands of dollars on CPUs and GPUs so if a game comes out and runs like crap on the latest and greatest hardware then yes, you will hear complaints.

But console gamers turned into PC gamers this gen as well which I find bizarre. We all were used to 30 fps games since literally the 90s and now we are like 60 fps or bust, but i wont pay more than $500 for this console either.

Stalker looks amazing to me. People saying it doesnt look good are probably playing in performance mode.

I’d argue the standards of quality should raise where it makes sense. 60fps should be the minimum considering VRR windows for PS of 48fps and the continued increase of 120fps TVs.

As for Lumen and Nanite- the majority of gamers don’t know that exists. They just play. Saying gamers demand it is hyperbolic unless you have data to back that up somewhere.

It's why one's need to kick the FOMO and purchase problematic games when/if they are fixed later instead of launch. Usually there is a discount on them by then as well.

Moms and dads don’t know. Hell, most gamers don’t know. DF has a sub count of about 1.5 million. There are how many hundreds of millions of gamers out there?

True, but I make exemptions for games which I love and dont wanna see to die.

As a consumer, you are perfectly able to make that choice.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

It’s the internet. Kevin Smith said it best in one of his shitty movies, “the internet is a place where people come together to bitch about movies and share pornography with one another”. Just replace movies with TV, music, games, etc. Negativity and controversy gets more clicks than positivity.

I don’t think gamers are too entitled. We are just jaded after generations of being screwed by major publishers. I again blame the internet. Games used to launch playable and feature complete. Now a lot of the times they release day one broken and missing things that they sell later as MTX or DLC. Thanks to internet, they can patch later and chop games up to sell piece by piece.

Some games can be excused. Stalker 2 was developed in the middle of a war. Apparently the day one patch fixed a lot. I can cut them some slack. But we also just had Flight Sim release broken. Helldivers II broken earlier this year. Loads of titles released in a shoddy state knowing they can patch later.

If you remove the woke/anti-woke crying that happens constantly, I think gamers are ok to be negative and skeptical most of the time.

 

[poppabk]

the problem is people not experiencing anything for themselves and just respouting nonsense they read elsewhere whether its true or not, its social medias fault.

Yeah that is a big part of it, every issue gets blown up out of proportion. That said lots of games have lots of issues that are worth calling out.

 

[diffusionx]

I’d argue the standards of quality should raise where it makes sense. 60fps should be the minimum considering VRR windows for PS of 48fps and the continued increase of 120fps TVs.

As for Lumen and Nanite- the majority of gamers don’t know that exists. They just play. Saying gamers demand it is hyperbolic unless you have data to back that up somewhere.

Moms and dads don’t know. Hell, most gamers don’t know. DF has a sub count of about 1.5 million. There are how many hundreds of millions of gamers out there?

As a consumer, you are perfectly able to make that choice.

For all intents and purposes, 60fps is the standard. Like 99% of PS5 games have 60fps mode. PSSR was built to deliver 60fps at high quality graphics modes. Last gen, games were 1080p/30fps by default. Far less games ran at 60fps, including multiplayer games like Destiny. The standard has been raised.

This insistence that the game have no more than 2 frame drops over a 80 hour period because DF said so is what is entitled and weird.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

picky babies?

 

[tylrdiablos]

Let's be honest, if publishers could charge you for the pressing the POWER button on your Xbox/PS they sure as fuck would.

 

[BlackTron]

You are generalizing too much, I assure you that there is a huge percentage of players for whom the game world, dialogues, plot, systems, etc. are much more important. And graphics for them are just a nice bonus, almost all fans of the RPG and JRPG genres are like that, we still play 2.5D games and enjoy it =)

If you're an RPG player who upgraded from SNES to PS1, I'm sorry but you were set down a path of advancements that kept going with PS2, and so on. And the deal has changed.

The value of waiting 5 years and paying the same amount of money has shrunken significantly. This change doesn't mean everyone is upset or entitled, but does help explain where it comes from.

 

[SlimySnake]

I’d argue the standards of quality should raise where it makes sense. 60fps should be the minimum considering VRR windows for PS of 48fps and the continued increase of 120fps TVs.

As for Lumen and Nanite- the majority of gamers don’t know that exists. They just play. Saying gamers demand it is hyperbolic unless you have data to back that up somewhere.

Moms and dads don’t know. Hell, most gamers don’t know. DF has a sub count of about 1.5 million. There are how many hundreds of millions of gamers out there?

As a consumer, you are perfectly able to make that choice.

People who care about 60 fps and pixel counts definitely know about Lumen and nanite. Even if they dont, they want next gen visuals. Thats literally the entire premise of the thread... people want next gen visuals without understanding the cost of 60 fps.

Gamers were trained to expect massive technological leaps in a short time without increasing cost. I got N64 for $250 and then DC for $199. Now, the deal is altered.

People are right to expect 60FPS in games where it makes a gameplay difference by now, but if you were holding on this long, you might want to accept no matter how much power the choice will always get made to add gfx and cut frames. PS6 will still have 30FPS games, though they will offer Pro to fix all those games targeting 30 on base of course. I wonder how many warriors who said 30FPS was actually a good thing finally figured out this was never going to stop and went PC this gen lol.

Just feels like power needs to increase until it's a bigger chore to find ways to improve the picture graphically than it is to steal the frames. Obviously AI is getting there much faster but not there yet. I'm pretty sure in the 2D days, if they felt they could make a game look much better in screenshots by halving the framerate, they would. It didn't benefit the situation much, so they didn't. Wait until we're there again.

i mean both PS4 and PS5 cost $399 at launch. Less than the cheapest PS3 sku and on par with the X360.

Gamers only became entitled after Sony, MS and third parties phoned in the first two to three years of this gen with cross gen releases that ran at 60 fps at higher resolutions. The moment devs actually started pushing fidelity, that became impossible and now they have to resort to 720p which looks like shit on 4k tvs everyone is rocking.

i never saw anyone complaining about 30 fps in witcher 3, batman ak, uncharted 4, horizon 1, zelda botw, rdr2, or even ghost of tsushima and tlou2. This is a relatively new phenomenon.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I think people just have access to much more information, on which their expectations and standards are based.