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[lestar]

On the contrary, they are the backbone of current gaming, at least for those of us who have been gaming for decades. Current AAA games are so expensive that they are killing innovation and experimentation. If not for indie games, we'd have none of that.

 

[IAmRei]

for me, which also gamer, while also indie game dev, yes, most of indies are not good, 99% is bad.

 

[Field]

No but the majority of indies are trash or overrated mediocrity.

 

[balls of snow]

Big companies and share holders are killing gaming.

Seriously. People read but seems did not understand that Suicide Squad autopsy article.

 

[sigmaZ]

In and of themselves, no. But they are a part of larger trends that may work at the detriment of the profitability of the market share. I would think that cellphone games and free to play have by far the greatest impact by showing that people will pay money just to play games to waste time rather than pay to play for gameplay and the overall experience. Fast food gaming if you will. Indies don't always fit into this paradigm, but the virality of certain indie games can as they potential eat away at the market share for bigger productions long term as they are cheaper and more easily accessible.

 

[GHound]

The only thing indies potentially kill are other indies or niche titles from bigger publishers. There's a lot of shovelware out there for every genuinely good game.

 

[March Climber]

for me, which also gamer, while also indie game dev, yes, most of indies are not good, 99% is bad.

If this percentage is cumulative, then it's simply not fair.

 

[balls of snow]

The Indie scene seems diverse and vital. Meanwhile ever AAA game I see announced is the same fucking grimdark Soulsborne shit or multiplayer GaaS stuff.

Yeah no shit. Phantom Blade Zero and Where Winds Meet. Put them side by side and no one on gaf could tell the difference. Lol Fromsoft is a blessing and a curse.

 

[March Climber]

By the way here's the image Geoff Keighley showed at the beginning of the conference. He even pointed out the ratio of AAA to everything else. He literally foreshadowed the entire show's direction.

 

[ahtlas7]

Yes, Mr. Soros, the little guys are destroying the multibillion dollar corporate AAA shit industry.

/s

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

They’re carrying the industry.

I enjoyed Balatro and Chrono Ark more than anything from any big publisher this year.

Exactly. They're saving it, not killing it. If it wasn't for them, this years SGF would have been absolutely barren.

 

[Fess]

No.
”AAA quality” is killing the industry. Because it seemingly takes 5-10 years to make a AAA quality game now.

On the console side we’ll see new hardware before we see the first new game from The Coalition, Naughty Dog, id and even mid size devs like Undead Labs. And previous indie dev Moon Studios has apparently worked on No Rest for the Wicked (It’s great!) for 6 years and it’s Early Access.

Meanwhile studios like FROM managed to make Elden Ring in 4 years by not going with photo realism and motion captured Hollywood actors and we’ll soon get an expansion that will likely be bigger than many AAA quality games in both scope and content.

 

[Puscifer]

They’re carrying the industry.

I enjoyed Balatro and Chrono Ark more than anything from any big publisher this year.

I've put more hours into Risk of Rain 2 than any exclusive I've played on PS4 or PS5

 

[GigaBowser]

 

[nemiroff]

Not per se. But as always the center of success draws more turds made by turds.

We just need to grow thicker filters.


Edit: I mean, the indie scene has always had a QA challenge with its low threshold nature. It's both a blessing and a curse.

 

[Markio128]

I’m not being funny guys, but if I see another walking left to right with a human and animal indie game, I may internally combust.

There were a couple of interesting indie games shown at Gamesfest, but I wouldn’t say they were doing anything new or unique, so this nonsense that indie games are doing things that AAA games aren’t is bullshit. I’d go as far as to say that the majority of gameplay ideas in indie games have already been done in past AAA games, and not the other way around.

But I understand that my perspective may be different because of my age. Especially since I have been playing games like those shown since the Atari 2600 days.

 

[IAmRei]

If this percentage is cumulative, then it's simply not fair.

well, based on my views and experiences. there are only small percentages,
because newer devs keeps shovel their games on some platforms,
while the game itself is copying something else and hoping gamers blindly took the bait. they are so massive,
almost 1500 games each month (based on my 2016 knowledge) and making steam, ios android stores, nintendo switch as well,
all now oversaturated. and good games are buried while that's because there is no filter in games submitted,
like wave of new bad batch each month. it is not fair, for good indie game, have to face the reality these days,
without publisher or internet darling viral status these days.

how did i know?

because i was part of gamedev community back in 2014 there is only few thousand people connected in some social media at the time, and we are happily connecting each other.

Then in 2015, there is lot of bad games waves attack from all sides, from underdevelopment countries,
and they are shoveling bad games, flooding market, buried our games which is really have to be
carefully researched, developed, marketed well.
only to face defeat because oversaturated market.
lot of my friend changes sides into web/apps developers now...
simply because indies are hardly made any money that time.

 

[IAmRei]

I’m not being funny guys, but if I see another walking left to right with a human and animal indie game, I may internally combust.

There were a couple of interesting indie games shown at Gamesfest, but I wouldn’t say they were doing anything new or unique, so this nonsense that indie games are doing things that AAA games aren’t is bullshit. I’d go as far as to say that the majority of gameplay ideas in indie games have already been done in past AAA games, and not the other way around.

But I understand that my perspective may be different because of my age. Especially since I have been playing games like those shown since the Atari 2600 days.

not just You, i am indie game dev, I was active in the community until recently. i see almost none of then understand video games, especially newer gens.

 

[Ozzie666]

Won't be long until they became the AAA of the gaming industry at this rate. Everyone else is taking way too long or going broke.

 

[demonstr8]

No. It's simply that games are shit all around because of garbage like GAAS aspirations via executives and DEI inflating budgets to an unsustainable size meanwhile indie games have a problem of being samey, overly focused on being quirky and "unique" and having some wanky story instead of good or being an homage to another game but worse in every way. 1 out of 25 AAA games are excellent and it's probably the same for indies.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Nah, I don't even think gaming is dying.

Indies keep things fresh though.

 

[PeteBull]

From my pov 3 major trends that if not kill then definitely have terrible influence on current/future gaming market:

1) GaaS- players, especially younger gen, are conditioned to not pay for games but microtransactions, and spend months/years on single title, pubs/devs spend crazy amounts of cash on that one game too, hoping for it to succeed and imitate fortnite success.

2) Woke agenda- especially visible in western dev studios, talent and hard work isnt priority anymore, while hiring ppl, but sex and skin color/orientation are, on top of that pubs/higher up devs prioritize this shit instead of game quality/fun factor/innovation/delivering bugfree and feature complete products on time- most recent example is newest AC protagonist duo, they managed to squeeze in black non binary guy into japanese samurai/ninja setting, its clown world now, and game looks visibly worse from Ghost of Tsushima that was ps4 exclusive from 2020.

3) Market consolidation( recent example MS buying bethesda, then acti-blizz, and already killed few studios within betheda, some of them produced really high quality games, like tango gameworks that gave us hi-fi rush, if MS had any vision they would keep studio going and give it even more ambitious projects, instead studio clousure when dev team had so much potential).

 

[DenchDeckard]

not a chance.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

There's a lot of garbage indie games out there but there's also some real gems.

One of the best retro role-playing games I've seen in a while is Skald: Against the Black Priory which was just released.

Between the game being great and friendly developers, I would highly recommend it.

 

[Little Chicken]

Not in the slightest, some of the best games this gen have been indie games.

 

[winjer]

 

[Hypereides]

Indies? Are you sure you didn't mean AAA?

I think the larger problem is the visibility of good indie games. Like IAmRei pinpointed, its a borderline saturated market with a constant slew of "quick-and-dirty" releases by the hour/minute. You gotta dig and do thorough research to find those that are actually made with genuine care and authenticity. Aspiring and inventive game creators these days are crossing their fingers with each release given they can get so easily lost in the stream. There's very few voices, if any, who spread the word about them.

No.
”AAA quality” is killing the industry. Because it seemingly takes 5-10 years to make a AAA quality game now.

(...)

Meanwhile studios like FROM managed to make Elden Ring in 4 years by not going with photo realism and motion captured Hollywood actors and we’ll soon get an expansion that will likely be bigger than many AAA quality games in both scope and content.

This. AAA+ developers have lost the plot. American western AAA developers are sitting in their ivory tower and recklessly, go about their current status quo like its okay. Indies and AA are eating their lunch. It'll eventually bite them in the ass with the current devcycle and their misplaced priorities. An addendum; I reckon we're witnessing a case of brain drain in the AAA space too.

 

[freemandos]

There are LOTS of them and therefore huge quantity of trash. But no, videogames made by small and/or indie developers, along with japanese ones, are a BIG part of why gaming industry isn't dying miserably.

 

[Hudo]

Some indies are pretty cool. But most indies are just the modern-day equivalent of shovelware.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I’m not being funny guys, but if I see another walking left to right with a human and animal indie game, I may internally combust.

There were a couple of interesting indie games shown at Gamesfest, but I wouldn’t say they were doing anything new or unique, so this nonsense that indie games are doing things that AAA games aren’t is bullshit. I’d go as far as to say that the majority of gameplay ideas in indie games have already been done in past AAA games, and not the other way around.

But I understand that my perspective may be different because of my age. Especially since I have been playing games like those shown since the Atari 2600 days.

I agree and I can't for the life of me understand why this opinion is so widespread. Most indies I see are ideas of games I played decades ago. Sometimes the Dev may have an interesting twist or goof execution, but rarely do I find an indie these days that do something that other AAA games don't outside of VR.

I grew up with Nintendo handheld and have fond memories of the DS library which had many off the wall ideas and out of the box gameplay so I think indies in comparison aren't as novel to me like they are to others. I also used to play some unique touch screen mobile games back in the day before F2P.

I feel like people overpraising indies have been in an AAA bubble for so long that they finally discovered different kinds of games and think they are novel to everyone. I used to be militant about Indies too.

With that said, I will continue to support and play Indie titles that do interest me like Animal Well and some VR games. I respect developers supporting a new medium of gaming.

 

[tomato shrub]

Shut up and enjoy your Roguelike

 

[thief183]

If it wasn't for indies I would have already stopped playing.

 

[drganon]

No, but we don't need any more rogue or metroidvania games either.

 

[StueyDuck]

EDIT: Think back to the Wii era of shovelware games. Yes the Wii had some really good non-Nintendo games but the amount of shovelware crowded out the real gems. This is what is happening with indie games at the moment, too many undeserved indies are getting too much of the spotlight.

EDIT 2:



EDIT 3:



Low quality indie games are taking more and more stage presence while high quality indie games are getting mixed in with low tier ones.

There is a shite ton of bang average indie games that are being showcased and praised.

But that doesn't mean they are killing gaming... making it worse? Yeah sure.

But there's many factors affecting gaming and indie games aren't one of them, much how the indie 70s exploitation movies didn't kill cinema

 

[Filben]

If anything is killing gaming (which is questionable) it's AAA publishers.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I don't care about or play indie games, but no they're not killing the industry.

Long development times and ballooning costs for AAA games are.

 

[Markio128]

I don't care about or play indie games, but no they're not killing the industry.

Long development times and ballooning costs for AAA games are.

I’m pretty certain there’s an element of AAA devs trying to meet gamers high expectations. It’s a two way thing imo. In that respect you could argue that gamers are killing the industry. Hyperbolic I know, but only as much as your theory.

 

[YuLY]

Indies arent killing the industry as they arent really the problem, the problems being: insane budgets, insanely long development cycles, talentless activists replacing experienced devs, gaas/always online etc

However, the indies arent the savior or what is keeping the industry afloat either, like some are saying in this thread. The industry will always be mainly about AA and AAA games, indies are niche, there is a reason hundreds are released each day on steam and you get maybe 1 or 2 that actually sell and become popular in like a few months.

The backbone of the industry were new IPs like Assassins Creed, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Uncharted, then AA stuff like Prey (2006), Singularity, Red Faction Guerilla etc. So when is the last time we got big new IPs like these ?...thats the problem. These will never be replaced by indies, since indies by nature are niche and they are played by a minority of enthusiasts.

 

[Audiophile]

I'd argue the low standards of the majority of gamers are killing it. Companies are gonna company and try to rinse use; but we keep letting it happen. If people stopped spending 20 bucks a pop on mtx bundles or lapping up the same old rehashed crap with a coat of paint, they might start having to innovate.

Just look at how many people pre-order something like AC: Shadows, they don't even have to earn your money anymore. They throw up a logo, an outsourced cg trailer and a preorder link; and people cough up. They have the money and they'll take that as confirmation that they're doing a good enough job, no need to push the boat out.

 

[tommib]

AAA bloat open world fuckfests for graphic whores are killing the industry.

 

[Guilty_AI]

EDIT: Think back to the Wii era of shovelware games. Yes the Wii had some really good non-Nintendo games but the amount of shovelware crowded out the real gems. This is what is happening with indie games at the moment, too many undeserved indies are getting too much of the spotlight.

EDIT 2:



EDIT 3:



Low quality indie games are taking more and more stage presence while high quality indie games are getting mixed in with low tier ones.

Time's are different old man, you're too focused on legacy media and shitte like SFG, completely ignoring the fact many successful smaller games utilize different avenues for marketing themselves.

Stuff gets buried, yeah, but its precisely the great ideas with great execution that manage to get some spotlight, while what tends to be buried are the sea of copy-pastes and low-effort games you think is crowding everything.

 

[deriks]

They're probably the ones that are really showing love

...they don't get much thou

 

[Edgelord79]

Indies are often better than a lot of the AAA titles.

Are AAA games killing gaming? Because there is an argument to be made there too regarding quality and repetitive content.

For me, indie titles are what renews my interest in games after the same type of titles coming out ad naseum.

 

[M1chl]

To a degree they popularized shit like survival simulator, roguelite/light, etc. No they aren't killing gaming, but they lowered the bar for sure.

 

[near]

Why would we need to think back to Wii-era indies when we're currently in the golden age of indies? Fuck dude, I would probably be bored with gaming if it wasn't for all the interesting indies that have been coming out over the last few years.

 

[Shut0wen]

I know what op is talking about, its gradually getting worst with indie shovelware, switch being the worst offender but it all started with valve but there are some good shovelware indie games such as vampire survivors and cat quest to name afew

 

[Walter Matthau]

I've sunk many hours into some quality indie games, but it's also very clear that reviewers are rating indies on a different scale than what they use for major publishers so it's difficult to sort through the fast growing mountain of trash to find the ones that will personally appeal to you.

 

[Herbspiceguy]

I see the indie scene as a shining beacon of hope. I'm glad to see it's thriving and getting a lot of attention at events like Summer Fest and OTK. I'm biased though, as I stopped being interested in AAA games a long time ago (with some exceptions like From Software). There's just too much quality and variety coming from indie devs. Also the short time investment is perfect for me as a 40yo with a life.

What is killing the AAA industry are bloated teams and budgets, and big companies losing direction after they became publicly traded.

 

[{insert code here}]

Selaco just released and most people don't know that it exists. There's so many great games that people, including myself, don't even know exist because we still haven't figured out a reliable method for getting these names out into the public conversation.

I think part of the problem is the 'indie' label itself. It's too broad of a term and it's become synonymous with one specific subset of games (the artsy, retro, 2D, throwback or whatever you want to call it). At least now we've got the boomer shooter genre/category to pull those types of games out from under the indie label/category.

I think part of the solution is discovering new terms for genres and losing the 'indie' label. Metroidvania is another example of this.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

My problem with indie games is the "samey-ness" of them all.

Now are they actually all the same? No, but much like stated in the OP the vast majority of ones that get promoted are all the same thing. Obviously indie shooters exist but are rarely promoted (shout out to Gmanlives though as I've found a lot of them from him alone), and even outside of promotion circles a lot of indie games fall into a couple genres as they are generally cheaper to make.

I also generally dislike the art style of a lot of Indies. XBLA had a ton of disgusting art like fucking Braid which is one of the ugliest games of all time. Then we had 1000 of the same generic cheap "16bit" trash.

Luckily I still get to play stuff like Selaco so it's not a total loss.