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[nush]

996 means 12 hours a day 6 days a week. It's something that's becoming increasingly common in white collar jobs in China and this video which I find extremely accurate as I could see years ago this was how things were going to go.

It's bad leadership combined with always connected to employee smartphones that has escalated this. This idea that the longer hours you work the more will be achieved does not work in an office environment. If you were paid to lift bricks, sure the longer time you spend lifting bricks the more bricks you'll move. But in an office environment it does not work like that, unless you are say for example a low level data entry position.

I've worked in a few Chinese companies and back in the early 2000's it was typical for office workers to work six days week, 40 hours and maybe a couple of hours overtime. Then you went home, the boss would not call you and most people did not have internet access outside of the office.

10 years later I had an extremely well paid job but the boss wanted all my time. Public holidays? - Come to the office, let's have a meeting while it's quiet. An idea pops into his head at the end of the day? - Here, finish this presentation for tomorrow mornings client meeting (Several hours worth of work). I had to actually take some time off because of burnout. I worked out he only did that becuse he lived alone and had nothing to do during the weekends and holidays as his family lived in America. It was bullshit busywork becuse he was bored.

I had another boss who would always make a show of how hard he was working but it was bullshit. He'd claim to be working to 11PM each night. But the reality as I observed was he'd often leave the office at 5-6 and go out eating or drinking for the evening. Then when he was about to go to bed fire off some emails from his phone and fall asleep. working until 11pm...

(Actually watch out for this one as I've seen many people just fire off emails late at night to look like they are working really late at night for the company)

This 996 mentality for office workers means they are getting a worse deal than uneducated factory production line workers. At least they are paid by the hour and paid overtime. Not only that but they get food and accommodation and the work they do "Lifting bricks" actuality leads to more productivity for the company.

Paging: RoyalLaFlame

 

[zeroFiveNine]

Chinese authorities say overtime '996' policy is illegal

China's Supreme People's Court said the overtime practice of "996", working 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. six days a week, is illegal, taking aim at the controversial policy that is common among many Chinese technology firms.

www.reuters.com

996 was ruled illegal already. The video is out of date.

 

[nush]

Chinese authorities say overtime '996' policy is illegal

China's Supreme People's Court said the overtime practice of "996", working 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. six days a week, is illegal, taking aim at the controversial policy that is common among many Chinese technology firms.

www.reuters.com

996 was ruled illegal already. The video is out of date.

Sorry but no, China has many laws most of them are not enforced. Face, bribes, connections and firing any whistle blowers will ensure this continues. There used to be and might still be a rule that a local governemnt employee was required to be working at any foreign owned business in China to make sure no laws were being broken. This was not a requirement for any Chinese company.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The woman at 12:30 or so, who's basically saying "work harder, pussy", is a classic middle manager. But she's also still young. I'd like to see her after ten more years of 996.

 

[Punished Miku]

The woman at 12:30 or so, who's basically saying "work harder, pussy", is a classic middle manager. But she's also still young. I'd like to see her after ten more years of 996.

You can grind out people on white collar work if you really want. It's not like they'll die or anything. But they wont have much of a personal life, they'll be depressed, work productivity will decrease, and probably some suicides as well. But ultimately it can be done if you just literally don't care about anything but having people in their seats.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You can grind out people on white collar work if you really want. It's not like they'll die or anything. But they wont have much of a personal life, they'll be depressed, work productivity will decrease, and probably some suicides as well. But ultimately it can be done if you just literally don't care about anything but having people in their seats.

You can if they're doing mostly meaningless work (and there's a lot of such work out there, tbh). But if there are targets, deadlines etc to hit and they have to deliver or they're fired, they're gonna burn out rather quickly. I've seen it countless times and we have a 48 hour per week cap where I live.

 

[nush]

You can grind out people on white collar work if you really want. It's not like they'll die or anything. But they wont have much of a personal life, they'll be depressed, work productivity will decrease, and probably some suicides as well. But ultimately it can be done if you just literally don't care about anything but having people in their seats.

and they are instantly replaceable.

 

[Tg89]

Absurd. 9-5 is already pushing it in this day and age imo and many employees are trying to creep beyond that (very often will see job postings that say 830-5/530, which I instantly close of course). Like you said, the world being always online/technology in general has enabled employers to exploit people who feel compelled to be available after hours. Part of the fault is on employees for allowing it to happen. The amount of people that willingly just work overtime...even small amounts, ten minutes here, half hour there, contribute to devaluing the workforce as a whole and giving companies free rides. I've often heard (usually older) people say things like "if your day ends at 5 you should never stand up and leave immediately at that time", which is just a big lol, I'm literally only being paid to be here till 5, I don't work for free, it defeats the purpose. You can make an argument that there's an indirect benefit and this will result in more promotions/raises etc because you're seen as a "dedicated employee" but at most companies I've been at these people just get identified as the suckers who end up with more work on their plate with no additional pay/promotions.

Tough thing to solve since in most industries there's less jobs available than people trying to get them. Many people seem to see it as a way to standout, in my experience. I'll frequently hear people in meetings talking about how many hours overtime they worked last week as if it's some sort of badge of honor, meanwhile it really just makes you sound like a sucker/dumbass, most of the time this is an indication of incompetence/poor time management more than anything. Either that or poor resource management from someone above you.

I guess a lot of it is also people who lack hobbies/are lonely too.

 

[CAB_Life]

I feel as if the current oligarchy being formed by billionaires, government and big tech is meant to stand as a counterpoint to the China’s brand of imperialism. I imagine that’s how Davos and the rest justify the loss of protections and freedoms—for the greater good—but the reality is that we’ll just be one faction of faceless automatons vs another. I really don’t have much hope for the future unless we can wean ourselves off our technolgical nipples and begin creating parallel institutions to replace the ones that have been captured.

 

[strange headache]

If you were paid to lift bricks, sure the longer time you spend lifting bricks the more bricks you'll move.

You obviously haven't lifted many bricks.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

This idea that the longer hours you work the more will be achieved does not work in an office environment.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but it does. I worked at a few Western startups, high ups are always at work. It’s the low level that thinks 9-5 will cut it. They are the ones that never get promoted and work their whole life as a senior programmer or team lead at most (cute when you are 30, less so when 40). Of course at least one person at an entry job knows the rules, they are the ones getting promoted.

 

[StormCell]

People who work longer hours (and let it be known) are simply compensating for a lack of something else in their regular work time. Either they're not as effective as their peers during regular hours or they don't collaborate well with their team. Either way, quantity of time spent focusing on the company is a bad means of measuring value. I look at it as being more like daily attendance and participation credit: it deserves a check mark and nothing more. Everything else will come out in your 360 degree peer review.

I've seen developers who did incredible amounts of overtime and built a ton of well-constructed libraries and applications. The thing is that all that work occurred in a silo. We reviewed the code, studied the work done, and ultimately gave it a thumbs up. However, why did this guy have to burn 70 hours a week to get it done in a month when we could have handled it without anyone doing overtime? Also, collectively we found a lot of the work done to be over-engineered. It was clunky and went so far beyond our needs. The reality is the guy in question wasn't great at collaborating. He nailed a bunch of company bonuses but left after about 5 months. I'm sure he's climbing the ladder, but more intelligent managers recognize this type for what he is.

 

[StormCell]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but it does. I worked at a few Western startups, high ups are always at work. It’s the low level that thinks 9-5 will cut it. They are the ones that never get promoted and work their whole life as a senior programmer or team lead at most (cute when you are 30, less so when 40). Of course at least one person at an entry job knows the rules, they are the ones getting promoted.

I think we could have some long interesting discussions over drinks. I think your perspective sounds a bit childish, honestly. You can do all the overtime you want, and it can still not do you any good. You could also do a bunch of overtime and have it in good with a boss who can actually bump you up the ladder. Of course, all of this ignores whether someone is actually qualified to be promoted, and I say this because you mentioned senior programmer and team lead as though they didn't count as promotions. Not everyone is cut out for management, and I've seen principal architects (super senior god super senior level lol) who have no where else to go on the ladder but lack the desire to manage nor possess the traits of good management -- they would be awful managers. Does this cap their potential to move up onto the executive ladder? Probably. Does it have anything to do with lack of hours worked? Nope. These guys are brilliant but just not the types you want managing others.

I don't see what's so wrong with being good at the job you do and just staying there. We've got a middle and upper management problem in America. We need a lot less of them and they appear to take the lion's share of the pay.

 

[Mistake]

From what I have seen, most managers in china have no idea how to manage time, so that carries down to workers being overstressed for no good reason. I can’t tell you the number of times I was told “I need this by the end of the day,” or “I need this tomorrow.” Completely unacceptable. Eventually I worked for a company where the boss was a lot more responsible, and it was great.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

We've got a middle and upper management problem in America. We need a lot less of them and they appear to take the lion's share of the pay.

I agree with everything you said before - some people are definitely not cut or not interested in management, however they kill it as an IC. However the part quoted is why everyone tries to make it up the ladder. From one side it makes sense - managers are paid to scale the processes and the work of people on their team, ICs do one person’s job.

 

[StormCell]

I agree with everything you said before - some people are definitely not cut or not interested in management, however they kill it as an IC. However the part quoted is why everyone tries to make it up the ladder. From one side it makes sense - managers are paid to scale the processes and the work of people on their team, ICs do one person’s job.

Right, and a good manager is worth big pay. Some people are really highly skilled process architects who understand how to set others up for success. Even better are the ones who naturally raise their teams up to lead as well.

I think that what I feel is needed is a better balance of pay between brilliant workers and the managers. The higher up the ladder you go, probably the grosser the pay. My boss maybe makes six figures and is just above me from a bird's eye view but his boss is C-level and possibly earns seven figures. I know this guy, and he just doesn't serve us that well... obviously he shows the right results to the right people since I've seen him move up to C-level, but in his capacity over my team, over the years, he has not served us well.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Yeah, I've been feeling that bullshit over here. Good thing I already left the company anyway. From what I've seen, bosses here are horrible at management.Time management, financial management, you name it... they're simply horrible.

I had times when my boss asked to come on weekends and when I told him i already finished everything he just goes "just come anyway, find something to do".

And to all those people that think that constantly working extra hours will lead you to higher positions, I hope you're fucking kidding. Leaders and managements are made of people who know what they do. If you need extra hours to do your job, usually is a sign of being lazy or simply not good enough. I've met people who did their jobs in 4-5 hours and did it fucking well. But most people I know that work extra hours are just there to please the boss or because they did nothing during normal working hours (or because they suck at collaborating or they overengineer, many things actually). Sometimes extra hours can be needed for something urgent that needs to be done, but in no FUCKING WAY shows you're a better worker. A skilled worker is a worker that does good work during normal hours or even less. More than that, it's all fake productivity or incompetence.

I'm currently in between jobs (and have another interview tomorrow) but I'm seriously considering abandoning the IT sector for good. It's full of shitty people, exploiters and rockstars wanna-be's that have egos the size of mount everest. Interviews are getting worse and more tedious (fucking 3 or 4 technical interviews? For what? Am I supposed to do the project during the interview for free?), salaries are stagnating and overall work-life balance is getting worse. It's all about being the next rockstar that needs to have the knowledge of a full IT department and have 12 years of knowledge of a language that only exists for 6.

 

[Aesius]

I think we could have some long interesting discussions over drinks. I think your perspective sounds a bit childish, honestly. You can do all the overtime you want, and it can still not do you any good. You could also do a bunch of overtime and have it in good with a boss who can actually bump you up the ladder. Of course, all of this ignores whether someone is actually qualified to be promoted, and I say this because you mentioned senior programmer and team lead as though they didn't count as promotions. Not everyone is cut out for management, and I've seen principal architects (super senior god super senior level lol) who have no where else to go on the ladder but lack the desire to manage nor possess the traits of good management -- they would be awful managers. Does this cap their potential to move up onto the executive ladder? Probably. Does it have anything to do with lack of hours worked? Nope. These guys are brilliant but just not the types you want managing others.

I don't see what's so wrong with being good at the job you do and just staying there. We've got a middle and upper management problem in America. We need a lot less of them and they appear to take the lion's share of the pay.

Gotta agree with you here. In fact, mindlessly trying to climb the ladder is a fool's errand for a lot of people. Especially people who don't have the interpersonal/leadership skills to succeed in managerial positions. Peter Principle is real. The problem is that actively avoiding climbing the ladder can also put a target on your back.

 

[StormCell]

Gotta agree with you here. In fact, mindlessly trying to climb the ladder is a fool's errand for a lot of people. Especially people who don't have the interpersonal/leadership skills to succeed in managerial positions. Peter Principle is real. The problem is that actively avoiding climbing the ladder can also put a target on your back.

Definitely true. Definitely true for software devs in the wrong company or with the wrong manager. Some see 40 year old coders as just not being motivated. Those people are dumb, of course, but that doesn't seem to filter them out of management roles.

 

[celsowmbr]

Yeah, I've been feeling that bullshit over here. Good thing I already left the company anyway. From what I've seen, bosses here are horrible at management.Time management, financial management, you name it... they're simply horrible.

I had times when my boss asked to come on weekends and when I told him i already finished everything he just goes "just come anyway, find something to do".

And to all those people that think that constantly working extra hours will lead you to higher positions, I hope you're fucking kidding. Leaders and managements are made of people who know what they do. If you need extra hours to do your job, usually is a sign of being lazy or simply not good enough. I've met people who did their jobs in 4-5 hours and did it fucking well. But most people I know that work extra hours are just there to please the boss or because they did nothing during normal working hours (or because they suck at collaborating or they overengineer, many things actually). Sometimes extra hours can be needed for something urgent that needs to be done, but in no FUCKING WAY shows you're a better worker. A skilled worker is a worker that does good work during normal hours or even less. More than that, it's all fake productivity or incompetence.

I'm currently in between jobs (and have another interview tomorrow) but I'm seriously considering abandoning the IT sector for good. It's full of shitty people, exploiters and rockstars wanna-be's that have egos the size of mount everest. Interviews are getting worse and more tedious (fucking 3 or 4 technical interviews? For what? Am I supposed to do the project during the interview for free?), salaries are stagnating and overall work-life balance is getting worse. It's all about being the next rockstar that needs to have the knowledge of a full IT department and have 12 years of knowledge of a language that only exists for 6.

Are you back or front end dev?

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Are you back or front end dev?

Mostly backend. Currently I’m mostly Mobile focused but I also do a lot of backend, especially cryptography and services.

 

[12Goblins]

thanks for sharing. haven't watched the video yet but my Chinese colleague says that the idea over there is that if you don't want to do the 966 thing there is a line of people waiting to do it, so essentially you have no choice

 

[McHuj]

thanks for sharing. haven't watched the video yet but my Chinese colleague says that the idea over there is that if you don't want to do the 966 thing there is a line of people waiting to do it, so essentially you have no choice

It also bleeds overseas in that your foreign competitors are working 996, so management thinks we have to work harder as well. No one really works 996, either people try and burn out or they master pretend work this scheme.

 

[Haint]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but it does. I worked at a few Western startups, high ups are always at work. It’s the low level that thinks 9-5 will cut it. They are the ones that never get promoted and work their whole life as a senior programmer or team lead at most (cute when you are 30, less so when 40). Of course at least one person at an entry job knows the rules, they are the ones getting promoted.

Western senior programmers and team leads typically make north of 6 figures, well into the top 10% of individual earners, how cute and terrible. Imagine having hobbies and a life to spend and enjoy all your money on and not wanting to waste it in an office 80 hours a week.

 

[Outlier]

Absurd. 9-5 is already pushing it in this day and age imo and many employees are trying to creep beyond that (very often will see job postings that say 830-5/530, which I instantly close of course). Like you said, the world being always online/technology in general has enabled employers to exploit people who feel compelled to be available after hours. Part of the fault is on employees for allowing it to happen. The amount of people that willingly just work overtime...even small amounts, ten minutes here, half hour there, contribute to devaluing the workforce as a whole and giving companies free rides. I've often heard (usually older) people say things like "if your day ends at 5 you should never stand up and leave immediately at that time", which is just a big lol, I'm literally only being paid to be here till 5, I don't work for free, it defeats the purpose. You can make an argument that there's an indirect benefit and this will result in more promotions/raises etc because you're seen as a "dedicated employee" but at most companies I've been at these people just get identified as the suckers who end up with more work on their plate with no additional pay/promotions.

Tough thing to solve since in most industries there's less jobs available than people trying to get them. Many people seem to see it as a way to standout, in my experience. I'll frequently hear people in meetings talking about how many hours overtime they worked last week as if it's some sort of badge of honor, meanwhile it really just makes you sound like a sucker/dumbass, most of the time this is an indication of incompetence/poor time management more than anything. Either that or poor resource management from someone above you.

I guess a lot of it is also people who lack hobbies/are lonely too.

This ^!

Pretty much the same experiences I've had at my current occupation, for the past 6+ years.

I've used to be one of those who would do hours of overtime, per week. Not because I wanted to or because I needed the money, but because I felt like I would be seen as lesser. Then at one point I just had enough of that. It made me miserable, so now I rarely do it.

Now, I just watch as others fall into the traps and suffer. I tell them they don't have to do the over time, because they are hourly. Their job isn't to finish the job, but to do as much as you can till their time to clock out. But most of the fear backlash, from management. Especially the supervisors, even though they are hourly. Heck one of them's an alcoholic and another is a workaholic. Both suffering from deep personal issues, that the job only feeds into.

I've been offered and had plenty of opportunities to move up the chain, but after all I've seen and put myself through... NO THANKS! I just do my job the best I can, then I'm out of there and maybe I'll do a bit of overtime, if I can spare my personal patience.

It's just... depressing to see it all.

On China: If they ever have primary influence over the world, they will fail. Too much to try to control.

 

[Aesius]

Definitely true. Definitely true for software devs in the wrong company or with the wrong manager. Some see 40 year old coders as just not being motivated. Those people are dumb, of course, but that doesn't seem to filter them out of management roles.

Former coworker got promoted to director despite being a super introverted, socially awkward web dev. He essentially got the position via a battle of attrition. Company got new owners and he had been there the longest and had really broad knowledge of how processes worked, but holy shit, he was as terrible fit for the job. He lasted one year in the role and instead of being demoted back to where he was productive and valuable, he got straight-up fired.

 

[StormCell]

Former coworker got promoted to director despite being a super introverted, socially awkward web dev. He essentially got the position via a battle of attrition. Company got new owners and he had been there the longest and had really broad knowledge of how processes worked, but holy shit, he was as terrible fit for the job. He lasted one year in the role and instead of being demoted back to where he was productive and valuable, he got straight-up fired.

Yep. The tragic lifecycle of the brilliant <insert specialized role here>. They were a good employee. They kept good attendance and were present (mentally) in meetings. They were straight-laced and did nothing controversial. They did good work and were deserving of a promotion. Unfortunately, their next logical step up was a management position where they no longer did the work they were good at. Naturally, possessing none of the traits or learned skills that would make them suitable for management, they failed and consequently got fired...

Why brilliant <insert specialized employee title here> couldn't just do <insert specialized work> and be rewarded handsomely for the rest of their days, I'll never know why.

 

[EverydayBeast]

The one the the Chinese have is the willingness to work so many hours and I'm not sure if that's a good thing I have no problem working overtime, starting projects but Chinese government, peoples rights is a disaster. It's a massive country that doesn't play well with the rest of the world.

 

[celsowmbr]

Mostly backend. Currently I’m mostly Mobile focused but I also do a lot of backend, especially cryptography and services.

Cool!

 

[MaestroMike]

how much money do they make?

 

[Anki]

I work as a mobile dev and work from 9-5, after 5 i just shut down my computer and my work day is over. I
don't have slack, teams or work email on my phone, I will check all messages in the morning when I start work. During my work time I try to do as much as possible without screwing around, but after 5 its my time.

 

[synchronicity]

Issues like this always make me think about indigenous/primitive/hunter-gatherer peoples. Studies have shown that they only "work" 15-20 hours per week. Granted they don't have many of the creature comforts afforded through technological/industrial advancement, but they are far freer than the average person in "advanced" society. Personally, I think Thoreau had it right. (When he looked to live as simply as possible.)

 

[Amory]

idk what you'd even do for that many hours every week, assuming it's not just manufacturing. I waste my share of time as it is with a standard 40 hour a week job, and even that's with a good amount of work to do.

as a manager it sounds like a nightmare to try to find enough shit for people to do with all that time

 

[synchronicity]

I also find it incredibly ironic that all our "advancements" have had the opposite than expected effect on ease of life. People are more stressed and overworked than ever. The chase never ends, because the game is rigged. The fact that (most) people can't see how we're manipulated through the cycle of debt and the chains of a monetary system that only benefits the uber elite has always been a source of great frustration.

 

[Aesius]

idk what you'd even do for that many hours every week, assuming it's not just manufacturing. I waste my share of time as it is with a standard 40 hour a week job, and even that's with a good amount of work to do.

as a manager it sounds like a nightmare to try to find enough shit for people to do with all that time

A lot of it is simply wanting butts in seats. Owners and stakeholders feel gratified when they do their rounds at 5 p.m. and see the worker bees still appearing productive. Upper management sees that and puts pressure on middle management to ensure the facade is maintained to appease their own bosses. It's a dog and pony show and everyone is simply covering their ass to make sure the top dogs' egos are assuaged and that their kingdoms are secure.

The problem is that the "herding cats" mentality of middle management exists for a reason, because there are always a few people who abuse freedom and independence, which makes everyone up the ladder paranoid and feel like micromanagement and keeping everyone glued to their chairs until an arbitrary stop time is the way to go.

 

[nush]

From what I have seen, most managers in china have no idea how to manage time, so that carries down to workers being overstressed for no good reason. I can’t tell you the number of times I was told “I need this by the end of the day,” or “I need this tomorrow.” Completely unacceptable. Eventually I worked for a company where the boss was a lot more responsible, and it was great.

There's no thought process between having the idea and instantly instructing one of your many staff to just do it. Forutneatly as I'm not a yes man who see's the boss as a god I learned two things. If it was easy and quick, do it right away and make a show of it. If it was hard and time consuming ONLY do it when you get asked a second time "I'm just finishing that right up boss". I saved myself a ton of pointless work for things they didn't need, didn't need past the second it was asked for or forgot they even asked for the work. It's only when they ask twice that it's a real request.

 

[StormCell]

There's no thought process between having the idea and instantly instructing one of your many staff to just do it. Forutneatly as I'm not a yes man who see's the boss as a god I learned two things. If it was easy and quick, do it right away and make a show of it. If it was hard and time consuming ONLY do it when you get asked a second time "I'm just finishing that right up boss". I saved myself a ton of pointless work for things they didn't need, didn't need past the second it was asked for or forgot they even asked for the work. It's only when they ask twice that it's a real request.

It's unforgivable, as a manager, to waste your team's time on pointless one-off tasks that don't serve anyone's needs in the company. It's a good way to get you (and your team!) fired.

 

[nush]

(fucking 3 or 4 technical interviews? For what? Am I supposed to do the project during the interview for free?)

Be VERY careful because it's common for interview "Skill test projects" to actually be work for the company and you won't get the job anyway.

 

[K' Dash]

how shitty of a manager would you have to be to work al those hours to meet the business expectations?

people won't be productive half the time, and I would argue even less because of stress and shit QOL, even if they manage to stay productive for 4-6 hours a day, it won't be peak performance, not even close.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Sounds worse than Japan, which I didn't think would be possible.

 

[nush]

This one's worth a watch (It's an hour long though). Although it's a garments factory and also quite an old documentary this prick of a boss (Guy with the glasses) shows exactly how they run their businesses, their self importance and attitude to their staff. This type of person just evolved into working the tech sector but the attitude is still the same. I see so much bullshit here with this guy and I think a lot of it is missed by the documentary makers.

The boss knows everything about everything, don't question the boss.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

China is actually trying to crack down on 996 recently because of the countering "lay flat" (tangping) movement which is starting to catch on among young Chinese.

The actual society of modern China is extremely fucked up now after the government looked away for many years allowing 996 to occur because their focus was on relentless unending growth and nothing else. But now the people are increasingly pissed and the government has found the price of this growth is an impending Japan-style population collapse because it turns out when you work 9 am to 9 pm 6 days a week you don't have time to get married and pump out kids and China had a one-child policy anyways for decades.

 

[nush]

China is actually trying to crack down on 996 recently because of the countering "lay flat" (tangping) movement which is starting to catch on among young Chinese.

The actual society of modern China is extremely fucked up now after the government looked away for many years allowing 996 to occur because their focus was on relentless unending growth and nothing else. But now the people are increasingly pissed and the government has found the price of this growth is an impending Japan-style population collapse because it turns out when you work 9 am to 9 pm 6 days a week you don't have time to get married and pump out kids and China had a one-child policy anyways for decades.

and then housing is so expensive in China now you have to put in the hours if you hope to have a home to put your wife, kids and grandparents in.

 

[Ownage]

and then housing is so expensive in China now you have to put in the hours if you hope to have a home to put your wife, kids and grandparents in.

Meanwhile wife is getting slaughtered on the side and will have kids. Just not with you, but a richer dude who can afford a mistress and kids.

 

[SireSmogMurk]

George Jetson worked 3 hour shifts 3 days a week... and complained about it. I wish everyones work life were more like George Jetsons.

 

[Great Hair]

South Korea

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

A good pal of mine from China is desperate to move back to the UK because of the work culture. He lived here for 3-4 years as a student and has been fairly miserable since moving back.

Feel for the poor guy and hope he can one day find an avenue back here.

 

[nush]

A good pal of mine from China is desperate to move back to the UK because of the work culture. He lived here for 3-4 years as a student and has been fairly miserable since moving back.

Feel for the poor guy and hope he can one day find an avenue back here.

Find British girlfriend then get married, apply for UK citizenship.