Support NeoGAF

[Cyberpunkd]

Most time the women themselves choose how they dress, for reasons their own.

Yes, because a society where Islam is the dominant religion is just a pinnacle of liberty and personal rights. Patriarchal role of the society and family in Islam? Never!

 

[Yoshi]

I visit the sauna weekly, which is completely nude.
Being topless at the beach is also common practice in most European countries. Unless, you're a total degenerate, it's really not that exciting.

What irks me way more are burkinis becoming an increasingly common occurrence. Don't come to the pool if your retarded religion is the equivalent of 1950s prudism.
F*ck that shit!

While I agree on preference here, I think as long as it is private people, let them dress however they want. Do I think burkinis are stupid and display at best severe pudery, at worst religious indoctrinated misogyny? Yes. But in the end, it is no one's elses business, what a private person wears. Be that topless or burkini. This is different for people working for the state though (while they are doing that).

 

[Neolombax]

I tell you what the problem is. We (as in "The West") can tolerate Islam and it's idiological demands as much as we want or as much as our moral codes tell us but believe me, Islam wouldn't do that with our values. Just have a look into islamic countries.

Anyway, before it gets too political, I think that USA and Europe have very different issues with Islam.

I live in an Islamic country, am a Muslim myself. As far as personal experience goes, we dont really force the religion nor the religion beliefs upon others unless there's a concern on how it may impact society in general. Would my country allow topless women in pools here? Most likely not. Not because its an Islamic rule, but more because there are perverts in society and this could cause more harm than good. That said, you can be buck naked in your own personal spaces, and there's no "islamic police" that will barge through your doors and put in you in prison. But I've observed different levels of strictness in other Islamic countries. Maldives I think only allows alcohol consumption in certain restaurants, but in islands housing specific hotels, everything is generally allowed.

But as the topic of this thread is concerned, its in Germany. I dont think the Muslims living there would react adversely towards topless women in pools, they would just most likely avoid them, if they even did anyway. Its a non Islamic country, therefore we do follow the laws and norms of that country.

 

[Peggies]

I live in an Islamic country, am a Muslim myself. As far as personal experience goes, we dont really force the religion nor the religion beliefs upon others unless there's a concern on how it may impact society in general. Would my country allow topless women in pools here? Most likely not. Not because its an Islamic rule, but more because there are perverts in society and this could cause more harm than good. That said, you can be buck naked in your own personal spaces, and there's no "islamic police" that will barge through your doors and put in you in prison. But I've observed different levels of strictness in other Islamic countries. Maldives I think only allows alcohol consumption in certain restaurants, but in islands housing specific hotels, everything is generally allowed.

But as the topic of this thread is concerned, its in Germany. I dont think the Muslims living there would react adversely towards topless women in pools, they would just most likely avoid them, if they even did anyway. Its a non Islamic country, therefore we do follow the laws and norms of that country.

Oh boy, your post just confirmed many of my concernes lol.

Reminds me of that time I talked to a guy who considered himself a "very liberal Muslim". When I asked him if he would marry a Christian girl he answerd "Of course not. But I'm sure you wouldn't want to marry a Jew. Right?"

The only perverts in society are the ones surpressing their sexuality.

 

[Ironbunny]

I hope this trend catches on.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Oh boy, your post just confirmed many of my concernes lol.

Reminds me of that time I talked to a guy who considered himself a "very liberal Muslim". When I asked him if he would marry a Christian girl he answerd "Of course not. But I'm sure you wouldn't want to marry a Jew. Right?"

The only perverts in society are the ones surpressing their sexuality.

As an atheist/agnostic, I routinely enjoy giving it to my Catholic wife. It's good to step outside of you religious communal pool every now and again.

 

[dr_octagon]

German airforce are supporting body positivity and renaming their division to Luftwaffle.

Legit story brahbados.

 

[Peggies]

As an atheist/agnostic, I routinely enjoy giving it to my Catholic wife. It's good to step outside of you religious communal pool every now and again.

I was just shocked that he seemed to believe that there were rules that said I had to marry a Christian. It seemed very out of time and place to me.

 

[John Bilbo]

I was just shocked that he seemed to believed that there were rules that said I had to marry a Christian. It seemed very out of time and place to me.

It could be that he meant it is easier to marry someone with similar values as you.

 

[Peggies]

It could be that he meant it is easier to marry someone with similar values as you.

That's the point. Values and religious believes aren't or shouldn't be the same.

 

[John Bilbo]

That's the point. Values and religious believes aren't or shouldn't be the same.

I don't agree with you, but you can open up your opinion more if you'd like.

I think what one considers valuable in life has a correlation with that persons believes.

 

[Peggies]

I don't agree with you, but you can open up your opinion more if you'd like.

I think what one considers valuable in life has a correlation with that persons believes.

We have rules to make life in a modern society as peaceful as possible for everyone. Obviosuly those rules aren't the same as the ones from a thousand year old book.

For example we don't sacrifice sheep when we invite our neighbours to a nice dinner party (at least where I live).

 

[Tams]

Welp, found an example of one of the reasons Germany are being such idiots.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

While I agree on preference here, I think as long as it is private people, let them dress however they want. Do I think burkinis are stupid and display at best severe pudery, at worst religious indoctrinated misogyny? Yes. But in the end, it is no one's elses business, what a private person wears. Be that topless or burkini. This is different for people working for the state though (while they are doing that).

The problem is that ultimately those people will try to push their opinions on others, which leads to 'no police' ghettos of people with immigrant background.

 

[Neolombax]

Oh boy, your post just confirmed many of my concernes lol.

Reminds me of that time I talked to a guy who considered himself a "very liberal Muslim". When I asked him if he would marry a Christian girl he answerd "Of course not. But I'm sure you wouldn't want to marry a Jew. Right?"

The only perverts in society are the ones surpressing their sexuality.

Sorry, I dont believe in this. Just because you aren't able to freely express sexuality doesnt automatically make you a pervert. Some people have more control over their desires than others.

I really dont understand the issue here. This is happening in a non Islamic country, why has some of the discussion steered towards oh look at how Islam doesnt allow this. By all means, women in germany want to be able to show their tits at pools, go on right ahead. Will this happen in Islamic countries? Probably not. Will Muslims be able to say the call to prayer in Germany publicly? Probably not. And thats fine.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

There are already numerous fully nude beaches in Europe.

German women tend to be fit and beautiful.

I don't see the problem here.

 

[John Bilbo]

We have rules to make life in a modern society as peaceful as possible for everyone. Obviosuly those rules aren't the same as the ones from a thousand year old book.

For example we don't sacrifice sheep when er invite our neighbours to a nice dinner party (at least where I live).

Sacrificial lamb is the best

Maybe I think the term "belief" or "religious" in a bit more laxed way. I think one has to believe in something to act. And that action leads the person a certain way. That is the belief in action.

The collection of a persons beliefs can be called a religion. A religion can be considered the structure of a persons life. Or maybe faith is the more suitable word? I'm not sure.

Anyways I think religion can be a very productive way of life when considered in a metaphorical way. It can work also as a way to be peaceful towards each other.

 

[PumpkinPie]

This is the kind of equality I can get behind. I don't want them voting, but I'm more than happy to look at their norks.

 

[Haemi]

Welp, found an example of one of the reasons Germany are being such idiots.

What? There are idiots everywhere... without exception. Some of them in our government and other decision making positions.

Sorry, I dont believe in this. Just because you aren't able to freely express sexuality doesnt automatically make you a pervert. Some people have more control over their desires than others.

I really dont understand the issue here. This is happening in a non Islamic country, why has some of the discussion steered towards oh look at how Islam doesnt allow this. By all means, women in germany want to be able to show their tits at pools, go on right ahead. Will this happen in Islamic countries? Probably not. Will Muslims be able to say the call to prayer in Germany publicly? Probably not. And thats fine.

Call to prayer is allowed in germany. But we have noise regulations. As long as it is not too loud, it is fine.

In my opinion religion and government should be strictly seperated. Religion has influence on culture. This way there is some influence on law making. But no direct contact between the two institutions.

Two rules i have for living with others:

1. It doesn't hurt me. It doesn't hurt others. Do not prohibit it.
2. Do not restrict freedoms to "protect" people from others. (Why should someone "suffer" because of some idiots, perverts etc.)

There are already numerous fully nude beaches in Europe.

German women tend to be fit and beautiful.

I don't see the problem here.

There are beautiful women here. And there are women here, who will walk around topless. But i don't think the number of woman belonging into both groups is very high...

 

[Maiden Voyage]

For example we don't sacrifice sheep when er invite our neighbours to a nice dinner party (at least where I live).

 

[Peggies]

Sorry, I dont believe in this. Just because you aren't able to freely express sexuality doesnt automatically make you a pervert. Some people have more control over their desires than others.

I really dont understand the issue here. This is happening in a non Islamic country, why has some of the discussion steered towards oh look at how Islam doesnt allow this. By all means, women in germany want to be able to show their tits at pools, go on right ahead. Will this happen in Islamic countries? Probably not. Will Muslims be able to say the call to prayer in Germany publicly? Probably not. And thats fine.

"Some people have more control over their desires than others." Exactly! The ones who can controle themselves even though a woman shows her boobs.

"This is happening in a non Islamic country"
Germany and Austria, where I live, have a huge islamic community and a good part of their members are very religious. That's why.

 

[Peggies]

 

[Lunarorbit]

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[Tams]

 

[BigDeadFreak]

This is some equality I can get behind 100%.

I'd rather be in front

 

[joedan]

lol at women saying breasts aren’t sexual. If a stranger randomly grabs their boob they would (rightfully) charge him with sexual assault. They wouldn’t do so if the person touched their elbow.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The principal questions: Why can men show their naked torso but not women? Why must female bodies always be sexualized?

So did they do any research to answer these questions? What reasons did they find?

Learn what secondary sexual characteristics are.

You're welcome.

 

[strange headache]

While I agree on preference here, I think as long as it is private people, let them dress however they want. Do I think burkinis are stupid and display at best severe pudery, at worst religious indoctrinated misogyny? Yes. But in the end, it is no one's elses business, what a private person wears. Be that topless or burkini. This is different for people working for the state though (while they are doing that).

S'cuse me, but "severe prudery" and "religious indoctrinated misogyny" are my business insofar as they affect our common socio-cultural hygiene. These ideologies do affect other people, so no it is not a private issue, especially not when it comes to public places. Not to mention that full-body burkinis are extremely unhygienic. Ask any Scandinavian why saunas are in the nude!

If you don't appreciate my culture (something that many generation before me have worked hard to build up, care for and improve on), don't come here. Burqas and burkinis make it pretty obvious that you have no respect for my western values. You can do whatever you want in your own private sphere, but such is not the case for the public sphere.

A burqa or burkini is not just a regular garment, it holds symbolic and ideologic power. How would you feel about somebody casually wearing a KKK hood or the famous shaved head & bomber jacket combo? These things have meaning.

Also has it never occurred to you how western women might feel very intimidated by these practices, knowing full well what misogynist belief structure is hiding behind it, enforced by men who expect women to dress up like that? As a woman I would feel very uncomfortable being confronted with this blatant disregard for my emancipative rights.

 

[John Bilbo]

Learn what secondary sexual characteristics are.

You're welcome.

 

[Peggies]

This thread:

Haha I love it! Tits up!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Stay educated.

 

[belmarduk]

The Germans have a much more relaxed attitude toward nudity (and a much less lax attitude toward many other things.) You can see topless women in parks during summer.

 

[John Bilbo]

Stay educated.

No

 

[StreetsofBeige]

S'cuse me, but "severe prudery" and "religious indoctrinated misogyny" are my business insofar as they affect our common socio-cultural hygiene. These ideologies do affect other people, so no it is not a private issue, especially not when it comes to public places. Not to mention that full-body burkinis are extremely unhygienic. Ask any Scandinavian why saunas are in the nude!

If you don't appreciate my culture (something that many generation before me have worked hard to build up, care for and improve on), don't come here. Burqas and burkinis make it pretty obvious that you have no respect for my western values. You can do whatever you want in your own private sphere, but such is not the case for the public sphere.

A burqa or burkini is not just a regular garment, it holds symbolic and ideologic power. How would you feel about somebody casually wearing a KKK hood or the famous shaved head & bomber jacket combo? These things have meaning.

Also has it never occurred to you how western women might feel very intimidated by these practices, knowing full well what misogynist belief structure is hiding behind it, enforced by men who expect women to dress up like that? As a woman I would feel very uncomfortable being confronted with this blatant disregard for my emancipative rights.

The thing about acceptance/non-acceptance all of you are talking about involves many things at a personal level and society level.

For me, I dont care about people wearing turbans or burkas etc.... because none of that involves me, and unless something really changes in my life, it wont matter to me. At work, there's some Muslim woman who rolls out a mini rug and prays at her cubicle a few times a day. She even pushes her chair our of the way into the aisle a bit for room so technically I got walk around it. Or I just avoid the aisle. Not the end of the world. Who cares.

I think the biggest issue with western countries isnt their usual PR image of "everyone is a buddy over here, c'mon over and do what you want", is it's that its easy to give, but hard to take away. So what happens is let's say theres some big issues popping up from religious stuff. Instead of telling that group to stop fucking around, the gov will be more like "Hey, locals, you got to learn and accept other people". The more practical and pragmatic thing to do is tell that group or belief to knock it off.

For example, a plant might require steel toe shoes, no loose clothes, no jewelry, hair tied back, maybe hair net too. Sounds logical to me, since if you give people the option to have loose things that may catch into a machine, that's giant liability issue begging to happen. If someone puts up a fight for a headscarf, that person may win due to discrimination laws due to religious beliefs. Makes no sense whatsoever, since a non religious person cant do the same.

Thats the problem govs face because most recognize religion and that gives people an out to do shit most people cant. If I was to jump into a community pool wearing jeans, the lifeguards would tell me to change clothes. Someone puts on a burkini, and it's A-ok. Makes no sense, but gov (who have no balls) doesn't want to get into heated matches leading to less votes, so they appease the masses instead something more logical.

 

[Bojji]

The Germans have a much more relaxed attitude toward nudity (and a much less lax attitude toward many other things.) You can see topless women in parks during summer.

Nothing like that in Poland but nudity in tv is quite normal, there are shows like Naked Attraction shown after 10pm in regular television (free DVB-T) and you can even see naked woman in some movies during the day. So even in catholic country like mine European mentality about nudity is quite strong.

 

[Rentahamster]

Its strange. The immediate thought as a guy is yay boobies, but thinking about it further. I find that breasts have become more normalized in my life, and therefore less sexual to me, if that makes sense. My girlfriend routinely walks around our apartment topless, public breast feeding is less stigmatized than it once was, and Toplessness in general is becoming more widely accepted around the globe, and video games and films are regularly starting to have topless scenes that are not necessarily sexy. I totally think there is a world where toplessness at the beach or pool is pretty normal in the next decade, and we wouldn't treat it any differently from a man being topless.

 

[Tams]

The Germans have a much more relaxed attitude toward nudity (and a much less lax attitude toward many other things.) You can see topless women in parks during summer.

Yeah, but there's a big difference between a park or beach compared to an enclosed space.

I'm likely never going to go to a swimming pool in Germany, but it I were to, I don't really want a faceful of saggy tits.

I don't care about public breast feeding. Babies, the ugly aliens they are, need to eat and breast milk is best. I also don't find pregnant women or women who have recently given birth attractive so don't have any urges to supress. I obviously don't care about nudist areas as they are what they say they are; you go there for that. And I don't really care about large open spaces that aren't nudist areas as, well, there's plenty of other areas to avert my gaze too if mini-me starts taking over.

 

[belmarduk]

Yeah, but there's a big difference between a park or beach compared to an enclosed space.

I'm likely never going to go to a swimming pool in Germany, but it I were to, I don't really want a faceful of saggy tits.

I don't care about public breast feeding. Babies, the ugly aliens they are, need to eat and breast milk is best. I also don't find pregnant women or women who have recently given birth attractive so don't have any urges to supress. I obviously don't care about nudist areas as they are what they say they are; you go there for that. And I don't really care about large open spaces that aren't nudist areas as, well, there's plenty of other areas to avert my gaze too if mini-me starts taking over.

Its not something you would see in the US either (Maybe a good thing when you consider how overweight most Americans are) but I'd imagine people would get used to seeing it... but then again, Germans don't seem to have a problem with staring.. so you might be ok!

 

[Chronicle]

Was always like that on many spots in Europe. No one cares.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Was always like that on many spots in Europe. No one cares.

This is essentially what im saying. I think eventually this becomes so normal that its no longer “thrilling”

 

[Tams]

You lot are making mainland Europe sound like a land full of topless babes.

It isn't.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Wait.... doesn't this kind of equality clash with "male gaze"?

That term is constantly being misused and misunderstood. You know when you watch a movie from the 80s or 90s and the camera zooms in and slowly pans around a woman's breasts and ass? That, and only that, is the male gaze. It's camera movement that simulates general male sexual interests.

None the less, I see feminists and non-feminists alike using that term to refer to male sexual interest of any kind.

 

[nush]

You lot are making mainland Europe sound like a land full of topless babes.

It isn't.

There's so many of them, we need to keep then in safari parks.

 

[NeoGiffer]

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

???

 

[Putonahappyface]

I visit the sauna weekly, which is completely nude.
Being topless at the beach is also common practice in most European countries. Unless, you're a total degenerate, it's really not that exciting.

What irks me way more are burkinis becoming an increasingly common occurrence. Don't come to the pool if your retarded religion is the equivalent of 1950s prudism.
F*ck that shit!

Burkinis is that a real thing in 2022?

 

[NeoGiffer]

???

that's hitler. he was a cunt as well.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

that's hitler. he was a cunt as well.

Lol I know. I was wondering why that gif though

 

[NeoGiffer]

Lol I know. I was wondering why that gif though

oh. right he's Austrian isn't he?

Spoiler

mods pull down my pants and redden those cheeks like the naughtiest school boy.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Lol I know. I was wondering why that gif though

Hitler was known to have had under developed genitalia, maybe that's the reason for the gif. I have no idea how I came to that conclusion. Maybe the Pinot Noir.

​