deadhorse32
Bad Art
some fule to the fire http://www.conway.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf011210.htm ( a little bit old but better than nothing )
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Hello Americans. Are you really all stupid?
- Thread starter Bailey's Dad
- Start date
Nintendo Ate My Children
Member
There are a whole hell of a lot more American athletes competing in events than Canadian. If Canadian coverage only covered Canadian athletes, there wouldn't be much to watch.
trippingmartian said:
While we may not be in the best of shape considering poverty/unemployment/etc., that's not really our country's fault. More the government in its current state. Its not as if we don't want to address these issues, its more that other issues are currently getting in the way. So, I don't necessarily disagree, but its not a "whole country" kind of thing. Besides there are a lot of people within the country, outside of government that give to charity and whatnot all the time or otherwise do beneficial things like running shelters for the homeless. And with all due respect, it becomes a bit harder for America to take care of its own when it has to spend so much time trying to take care of people in other countries. As I'm sure you may know, we do a lot of damage, but we also give a lot of aid when its needed. America is like one, big double-edged sword, but its an inescapable position to be in when you are the main focus of attention in the world.
I live in Australia, but have been fortunate enough to travel around the US. NYC, San Fran, Orlando FL, and S Carolina (North briefly too). My experience was somewhat mixed. The locals I met were all genuinely nice people, some open-minded, some very igorant.
Spent 4 days with a friends family in South Carolina and that was something of a shock. Nice as heck, honest people, but also prejudiced.
The people I met in San Fran and NYC were definitely more open-minded, and open to new ways of thinking. Willing to debate and discuss without resorting to polemic.
The US is a great place, but the Govt. scares me.
Spent 4 days with a friends family in South Carolina and that was something of a shock. Nice as heck, honest people, but also prejudiced.
The people I met in San Fran and NYC were definitely more open-minded, and open to new ways of thinking. Willing to debate and discuss without resorting to polemic.
The US is a great place, but the Govt. scares me.
Again, I can only speak from experience, but even the Americans that I've met abroad are often quite ignorant and simple. Even with domestic issues. For instance, two 20-something girls that I met did not know who John Kerry was.
Still, though, lots of Americans rock. They can be some of the greatest people you'll ever meet. Consequently, these are the first to admit that there is something wrong with their fellow citizens.
Still, though, lots of Americans rock. They can be some of the greatest people you'll ever meet. Consequently, these are the first to admit that there is something wrong with their fellow citizens.
Hehe, you must be Swedish.nubbe said:
I'll tell you what the problem is with the USA. I've thought about this a lot.
I moved to Canada 5 years ago, so I had time to learn about the USA's culture. And here's my thoughts. Snap at me if you wish, but I have to insist that I really don't care if you do, because I mean no harm in saying this.
The major problem is how they've built their country into a world of its own.
Americans don't care because they don't need to care. Their country is just so goddamn fucking huge that it kind of constructed a protective shield around it not only militarily, but especially culturally. Their country's culture is so important (I'm not arguing the quality of that culture) that the people can (culturally) live off the American lifestyle alone, which gives them absolutely no incentive to ever leave the country, whether it's physically or otherwise. They don't NEED to leave. They don't need to know. They don't need to care.
What's an American's idea of travelling for the holidays? Take a trip to Florida? Miami? Maybe Cancun? Dominican Republic? Even if they do have the means, travelling abroad (Europe, Middle East, Asia) is usually a second choice (if that) for many Americans. And who can blame them? Their individual cities are more populated than my home country. Also, they've got places like Las Vegas and New York that are worth visiting just as much as entire countries.
American media though...That's the problem right there. It's wayyyy too powerful. Americans don't realize how powerful it is. The large majority of the internationally recognized celebrities are American. American pop is fucking everywhere. McDonalds, Nike, Hollywood, MTV. All internationally recognized. It's just too big. It's so big that it eventually starts to build this notion that that's all there is. Which creates the problem with "ignorance". Mostly, ignorance to anything foreign. They've even created sports THEY only participate in, as if to avoid confronting foreign blood. The 3 most popular sports in the USA : The NBA? 90% of American players. American football? "Soccer" is dismissed as a foreign sport and frowned upon... Baseball world series? Last I checked, the world consisted of much more teams than this.
In regards to news channels, well, the threads showing the ratings Fox news are getting pretty much seals my argument. Mindfucking the population is the name of the game over there. But it works. So if Fox News tells America not to care, Americans will not care. Maybe the ignorance you speak of comes from a lack of independent thinking, clearly visible in American politics, where decisions are not made within someone's mind anymore, but rather within his/her PARTY's collective mind, which boils down to a system that will eventually implode. I've heard some guy on CNN say "I may not agree with the president's decisions, but I'm a republican at heart, so I'm gonna vote Bush again". Well hoo-fucking-ray sir, here's a lollipop to reward your impressive showcase of independent thinking. Now go back to bashing your head against the wall, you damn retard.
Maybe all of this basically boils down to how much money America has. Financially, the USA are scary powerful. "The American Dream". It's lost its true value and its mystique now, but still, the simple fact that this term was coined means something.
With a culture that huge, how can you blame them for never feeling the need to look elsewhere for anything of interest?
Anyway, I've learned that nobody can blame them for it. If there is a criticism to make though, it's that a lot of them refuse to listen to a foreign voice. An attitude probably derived from the aforementioned fact that they never needed anything from anyone foreign. Their contribution to WW2 has probably not helped their ego either.
I moved to Canada 5 years ago, so I had time to learn about the USA's culture. And here's my thoughts. Snap at me if you wish, but I have to insist that I really don't care if you do, because I mean no harm in saying this.
The major problem is how they've built their country into a world of its own.
Americans don't care because they don't need to care. Their country is just so goddamn fucking huge that it kind of constructed a protective shield around it not only militarily, but especially culturally. Their country's culture is so important (I'm not arguing the quality of that culture
) that the people can (culturally) live off the American lifestyle alone, which gives them absolutely no incentive to ever leave the country, whether it's physically or otherwise. They don't NEED to leave. They don't need to know. They don't need to care. What's an American's idea of travelling for the holidays? Take a trip to Florida? Miami? Maybe Cancun? Dominican Republic? Even if they do have the means, travelling abroad (Europe, Middle East, Asia) is usually a second choice (if that) for many Americans. And who can blame them? Their individual cities are more populated than my home country. Also, they've got places like Las Vegas and New York that are worth visiting just as much as entire countries.
American media though...That's the problem right there. It's wayyyy too powerful. Americans don't realize how powerful it is. The large majority of the internationally recognized celebrities are American. American pop is fucking everywhere. McDonalds, Nike, Hollywood, MTV. All internationally recognized. It's just too big. It's so big that it eventually starts to build this notion that that's all there is. Which creates the problem with "ignorance". Mostly, ignorance to anything foreign. They've even created sports THEY only participate in, as if to avoid confronting foreign blood. The 3 most popular sports in the USA : The NBA? 90% of American players. American football? "Soccer" is dismissed as a foreign sport and frowned upon... Baseball world series? Last I checked, the world consisted of much more teams than this.
In regards to news channels, well, the threads showing the ratings Fox news are getting pretty much seals my argument. Mindfucking the population is the name of the game over there. But it works. So if Fox News tells America not to care, Americans will not care. Maybe the ignorance you speak of comes from a lack of independent thinking, clearly visible in American politics, where decisions are not made within someone's mind anymore, but rather within his/her PARTY's collective mind, which boils down to a system that will eventually implode. I've heard some guy on CNN say "I may not agree with the president's decisions, but I'm a republican at heart, so I'm gonna vote Bush again". Well hoo-fucking-ray sir, here's a lollipop to reward your impressive showcase of independent thinking. Now go back to bashing your head against the wall, you damn retard.
Maybe all of this basically boils down to how much money America has. Financially, the USA are scary powerful. "The American Dream". It's lost its true value and its mystique now, but still, the simple fact that this term was coined means something.
With a culture that huge, how can you blame them for never feeling the need to look elsewhere for anything of interest?
Anyway, I've learned that nobody can blame them for it. If there is a criticism to make though, it's that a lot of them refuse to listen to a foreign voice. An attitude probably derived from the aforementioned fact that they never needed anything from anyone foreign. Their contribution to WW2 has probably not helped their ego either
.trippingmartian said:
Misinformation like this makes me wonder what people are thinking.
1) America has tons of programs that deals with poverty, welfare, low income housing, food stamps, medicare, paid school tuition, and etc. If people are willing to look, you can get help. Unfortunately, many people rather have the government pamper them for life then try to improve there status.
2) America has around a 5% unemployment which is one of the lowest in the world. If gets to 6-7%, people will bitch like there are no freaking jobs to be found. Check the unemployment around the world before you complain about the America's. And, if you think a 0% unemployment is possible, you are living in fairy land.
http://www.oecd.org/document/26/0,2340,en_2649_201185_29492634_119690_1_1_1,00.html
"In the Euro area, the standardised unemployment rate remained at 8.8% in January 2004, 0.1 percentage point higher than a year earlier. For the United States, the standardised unemployment rate was 5.6% in January 2004, 0.1 percentage point lower than the previous month and 0.2 percentage point lower than a year earlier. For Japan, the standardised unemployment rate was 5.0% in January 2004, 0.1 percentage point higher than the previous month and 0.5 percentage point lower than a year earlier.
Over the twelve months to January 2004, the standardised unemployment rate rose in France from 9.1% to 9.5% and in Germany from 9.1% to 9.2%. In Canada, the standardised unemployment rate was 7.4% in January 2004, 0.1 percentage point lower than a year earlier. In November 2003, the standardised unemployment rate in the United Kingdom was 4.9%, 0.2 percentage point lower than a year earlier. In October 2003, the standardised unemployment rate in Italy was 8.4%, 0.5 percentage point lower than a year earlier"
3) The UN is a great idea, but in real life, it's not practical. Sure, we all like to believe that people all over the world with different backgrounds could come together to bring peace and harmony to all mankind. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen. To many egos and self interest there.
Yeah, the South is a bit of a strange area, but its always been that way. They ARE usually nice people who will welcome you in, give you a place to sleep, and give you a warm meal (and the food is usually pretty good, too!). This is, of course, unless you're black, gay, french, or a liberal.
OK, so its not THAT bad anymore, but the feelings still reside in a lot of those that live there. I don't think many of them are genuinely prejudiced people, but the southern mentality relies a lot on tradition and family and whatnot. That *tradition* unfortunately incorporates a lot of prejudice and most of the southerners today that still harbor ill feelings towards certain racial/social groups were taught to think that way when growing up. Perhaps in the coming years, this will become less and less of a problem, but a lot of those who grew up or were alive during the 40s and 50s, when racial intolerance was still a big problem still live there. What they learned to think and and feel during those times stick with them even today. I have an uncle who used to swear and throw around the big n-word all the time. You could tell he was the type that wasn't greatly educated and hung out with a bunch of "good ol boys" who didn't like black people and so on, but he also had a really bad childhood and these ideas were likely hammered into his head by his father. As rough as he is, though, he's a complete health nut and will do anything to help my grandfather who moved in with them a couple years back. He's also mellowed out in his old age, thankfully. When you sit there and consider how small many of these southern towns are and the idea that they don't travel very much, you can see how easily ideas such as prejudice towards certain people can fester and grow. Quite simply put, there's no voice of opposition in many of these communities.
Still, all that said, there are certainly a lot more tolerant individuals in the south today and, especially in places like Florida, there are a number of big cities that foster a different kind of ideal.
OK, so its not THAT bad anymore, but the feelings still reside in a lot of those that live there. I don't think many of them are genuinely prejudiced people, but the southern mentality relies a lot on tradition and family and whatnot. That *tradition* unfortunately incorporates a lot of prejudice and most of the southerners today that still harbor ill feelings towards certain racial/social groups were taught to think that way when growing up. Perhaps in the coming years, this will become less and less of a problem, but a lot of those who grew up or were alive during the 40s and 50s, when racial intolerance was still a big problem still live there. What they learned to think and and feel during those times stick with them even today. I have an uncle who used to swear and throw around the big n-word all the time. You could tell he was the type that wasn't greatly educated and hung out with a bunch of "good ol boys" who didn't like black people and so on, but he also had a really bad childhood and these ideas were likely hammered into his head by his father. As rough as he is, though, he's a complete health nut and will do anything to help my grandfather who moved in with them a couple years back. He's also mellowed out in his old age, thankfully. When you sit there and consider how small many of these southern towns are and the idea that they don't travel very much, you can see how easily ideas such as prejudice towards certain people can fester and grow. Quite simply put, there's no voice of opposition in many of these communities.
Still, all that said, there are certainly a lot more tolerant individuals in the south today and, especially in places like Florida, there are a number of big cities that foster a different kind of ideal.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
WORD @ Leon
Come to Sweden, we have sex.Raoul Duke said:
Actually Canada is quite a good country, I think I'd feel at home over there. =)
For the record, I know we swedes hate finland, seeing how they beat us at hockey every year
, but putting that aside it's a freaking well behaved country. No crimes, frickin' blooming economy, and ofcourse the chronical drinking. Mike Works
Member
See, this is why us Canadians always chuckle at the constant reminders that you guys could invade us anytime you want. You wouldn't be able to read the road signs, you'd miscalculate the distance to our capital, and I don't know how you'd fuck up scientifically, but I'm sure you'd find a way!
Very good post, Leon. Besides obvious biology, you're generally only as intelligent and knowledgeable as your environment provides.
America's general ignorance of the rest of the world is, I'm sure, perpetuated consciously on some level. Or, at least, no one bothers to stop it. If a state can prevent (not coercion) its citizens from travelling abroad or moving away, it is very good.
I think that with such a contained perspective, though, people get far less out of life.
America's general ignorance of the rest of the world is, I'm sure, perpetuated consciously on some level. Or, at least, no one bothers to stop it. If a state can prevent (not coercion) its citizens from travelling abroad or moving away, it is very good.
I think that with such a contained perspective, though, people get far less out of life.
You're actually pretty far off the mark, I think. Self-interest is no mystery. The international system now serves to maintain self-interest by cooperation amongst states. Because 'peace' is desirable for the security of each nation, they work together to achieve it for themselves. For instance, America argued to the UN that the invasion of Iraq was necessary because Saddam possessed WMDs which threatened all nations. Simply stressing the state of the Iraqi society would not have been convincing enough - what do they care?
Socreges said:
First, what is peace? It means different things to different nations. In US, it could be defeat of terrorism and stop spread of WMD. In Syria, it could be defeat of US by spreading terrorism. France could be trying to stop / equal US power around the world. And, etc. Throw in self interest that may have nothing to do with peace, an everything is off the table. Sorry, but you seem to live in a fairy land.
Leon said:Americans don't care because they don't need to care. Their country is just so goddamn fucking huge that it kind of constructed a protective shield around it not only militarily, but especially culturally. Their country's culture is so important (I'm not arguing the quality of that culture
This is the truth right here. America is the epicenter of the world -- everything revolves around it whether foreigners like to admit that or not. If you live in America, the dominant country of the world, why be concerned what someone on the other side of the world thinks about you? It's irrelevant and pointless. Chances are they'll be coming to visit our country much sooner than we'll be going to visit their's.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
myzhi said:
And they all crumbled at one point
I don't understand the people that say things like "at least we don't stone people to death." America has very healthy diplomatic relations with nations that stone to death. I remember reading on BBC.com about a women caught doing pr0n in Saudi Arabia and was stoned to death. They even had statistics on how many women were stoned. Now I know it wasn't done in the U.S. but still, no one even mentioned a word.
How could I live in a fairy land when I gave you a completely realist perspective? My post is hardly even opinion or personal perception - it is far closer to fact than your doom and gloom bullshit. I tried to give you a straight-forward answer, but you'd rather dispute the finer details.myzhi said:
The UN is not perfect. For instance, Iraq is a member. Look how that turned out. Yet without organizations such as it, the world would be a much more dangerous place. It is not the Syrias of international politics that would be the greatest concerns, but those most powerful. However, because of this critical cooperation and subsequent economic integration, France, for instance, cannot afford to do anything that might danger the status quo. Therefore you've got a perpetual system of each nation checking the next.
World peace is not necessarily possible. Yet the inevitable self-interest in each state can be controlled to some effect by organizations such as the UN.
Bailey's Dad said:
Yeah, that's why we invented pretty much EVERYTHING that keeps the modern world running. You know, things like electricity, the light bulb, automobiles, radio, microprocessors, airplanes. Unimportant things no one needs, really.
Now, if you asked if we were arrogant....
Cerebral Palsy
Banned
War, what is it good for?
deadhorse32
Bad Art
America has lots of great minds that's not really the point here. The whole issue is : Is average Joe US citizen is more ignorant than average Hans/Francis/Hideo/..... X/Y/Z citizen ?
Europeans
German, and Edison bought the patent for the light bulb from a Canadian
French for steam powered, Germans for gasoline powered
Pretty much
yep
Theory, as well as gliders, came from a brit, but I'll give it to you
I'll tell you what americans really invented. Commercial marketing.
Socreges said:
And I'm saying that, given the reality of the situation, the general impression is flawed. It's not like everyone in the country is as stupid as those featured on Leno's "Jaywalking." Maybe others think we are glorifying people like that. The reality is the majority of the country is laughing at our "stupid" people just as much as foreigners are. The simple fact that this question was asked says so many things about the ignorance of at least one person, whatever country he or she is from.
edit: myzhi-Euro Countries calculate unemployment differently than we do. The American unemployment number are very suspect at best, and don't really reflect the true employment numbers.
I'd say your average American is indeed ignorant if not stupid. But there are many reasons for this, some good some bad. And what people are ignorant/misinformed about varies. I obviously can't list all the reasons but here are a few:
1. The average American is very busy and is either too busy to get good info, or must take it as they can get it or from dubious sources.
2. The educational system here doesn't get nearly the amount of real emphasis as it does elsewhere. It gets a lot of lip-service, but compared to other countries, it's a farce. We spend far more on weapons and such than we do on educating people. Take a look at any major univeristy and they spend an awful lot more on sports coaching than they do on the totality of academic faculty. There is also a stigma, towards smart/passionate/informed persons.
3. Ignorance is bliss for many. I'd also include cynicism, disallusionment etc. here.
4. The significance of large/political events is lost on most people as they must struggle in their own day to day affairs. This is like #1, but it is, in a sense designed to be this way.
5. Modernization, has in a sense made it easier for the ignorant to survive. I
I'd also say that I cannot speak for other countries, and I'm sure many other countries' populi are also ignorant; how that compares to Americans, I don't know. I have read many pieces that do show a very high ignorance level comparitely to similarly industrialized nations. And of course there are many well informed persons here too, striving to better themselves. I'd also say that many Americans, if they were able would try to be informed.
I'd say your average American is indeed ignorant if not stupid. But there are many reasons for this, some good some bad. And what people are ignorant/misinformed about varies. I obviously can't list all the reasons but here are a few:
1. The average American is very busy and is either too busy to get good info, or must take it as they can get it or from dubious sources.
2. The educational system here doesn't get nearly the amount of real emphasis as it does elsewhere. It gets a lot of lip-service, but compared to other countries, it's a farce. We spend far more on weapons and such than we do on educating people. Take a look at any major univeristy and they spend an awful lot more on sports coaching than they do on the totality of academic faculty. There is also a stigma, towards smart/passionate/informed persons.
3. Ignorance is bliss for many. I'd also include cynicism, disallusionment etc. here.
4. The significance of large/political events is lost on most people as they must struggle in their own day to day affairs. This is like #1, but it is, in a sense designed to be this way.
5. Modernization, has in a sense made it easier for the ignorant to survive. I
I'd also say that I cannot speak for other countries, and I'm sure many other countries' populi are also ignorant; how that compares to Americans, I don't know. I have read many pieces that do show a very high ignorance level comparitely to similarly industrialized nations. And of course there are many well informed persons here too, striving to better themselves. I'd also say that many Americans, if they were able would try to be informed.
Drensch said:
Regarding this one, I find it quite annoying. I can't use it as a dig at the US either because I see it happen all the fricking time here in Canada as well. People should not take information from dubious sources. I will never understand why people are so willing to take second hand information as fact and then pass it on as fact.
It's not that hard to find reliable sources of information if you're actually interested in something, and if you're not you shouldn't be passing it around anyways. And the worst thing about it is a lot of these 'facts' carry with them some level of outrage (because they tend to be outrageous in more ways than one), and so people get angry and pessimistic about things they have no business getting angry and pessimistic about.
And when people try to pass these facts on to me, and I express the reasonable amount of skepticism I think all new information deserves, they get mad at me for it. If I want to go verify it, they take it as a personal insult. Don't people understand that this sort of bullshit cultivates ignorance? And not just ignorance, but righteous ignorance?
Ugh.
Seth C said:Fine maharg, then add telephones to the list, and I'll take Edison on "practical incandescent light bulbs."
Oh I wouldn't go for telephone if I were you. It's under heavy dispute, and the information available tends to favour an Italian.
Nope. Canadian. Or German. Or Italian. Depending on who you ask.Seth C said:Fine maharg, then add telephones to the list, and I'll take Edison on "practical incandescent light bulbs."
I'm afraid that, through your efforts, you are only giving the topic-starter significant evidence.
I think it has to be mentioned that ignorance is not a bad thing in many cases.
It's like someone who...say, refuses to take a shower. After a few weeks, this person stinks. This person doesn't care. This person lives in a home with no one else, so it really doesn't matter.
On the other hand, once this person leaves the house and boards a bus that's full of people...then we got problems.
A person living in Latvia doesn't have to educate themselves on the Middle East, because this person's country does not involve itself much with Middle Eastern countries. An American on the other hand, would have to know a bit about the Middle East, because many nations in the Middle East recieve billions of dollars of their tax money and their military has many bases there.
Americans for the most part don't need to know specifics of other countries. Knowing how King Hussien came to power, it's a fact that irrelevent and Americans shouldn't be expected to know that. But when it comes to say, spending billions of dollars on an invasion effort, sending their sons and daughters to fight other people...it would be a wise idea to educate yourself on the matter. Again, I'd blame the media for not doing their part...especially when it comes to large conflicts such as the Iraq Invasion.
I just thought I'd add that in. Widespread ignorance is not always a bad thing.
It's like someone who...say, refuses to take a shower. After a few weeks, this person stinks. This person doesn't care. This person lives in a home with no one else, so it really doesn't matter.
On the other hand, once this person leaves the house and boards a bus that's full of people...then we got problems.
A person living in Latvia doesn't have to educate themselves on the Middle East, because this person's country does not involve itself much with Middle Eastern countries. An American on the other hand, would have to know a bit about the Middle East, because many nations in the Middle East recieve billions of dollars of their tax money and their military has many bases there.
Americans for the most part don't need to know specifics of other countries. Knowing how King Hussien came to power, it's a fact that irrelevent and Americans shouldn't be expected to know that. But when it comes to say, spending billions of dollars on an invasion effort, sending their sons and daughters to fight other people...it would be a wise idea to educate yourself on the matter. Again, I'd blame the media for not doing their part...especially when it comes to large conflicts such as the Iraq Invasion.
I just thought I'd add that in. Widespread ignorance is not always a bad thing.
Socreges said:Nope. Canadian. Or German. Or Italian. Depending on who you ask.
I'm afraid that, through your efforts, you are only giving the topic-starter significant evidence.
It's in dispute. According to that very site, Bell is listed as "Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone." Now, whether you consider him American or not, who knows. He certainly wasn't originally from the US, but immigrants are what make up 99% of us anyway.
Wolfy said:
I've not read the whole thread, so I can't be sure if anyone has already addressed this, but just in case...
...the poll asked if you believed if the George Bush Administration *could* have had a hand in the 9/11 attacks - that implies possibility, and of course, it is possible, regardless of how small that possibility is. Anything is possible. I know the chances are 99.99999999999% against that possibility, but whilst a miniscule chance exists, one could very easily answer yes to that question if they interpret it as literally as I have (and I would have if asked this question - my own answer probably would have been yes, despite it's extraordinary improbability).
Seth C said:
I'd say this is more than the run of the mill dispute though. It's dispute to the point that the claim is pretty much useless. On 'that very site' is also says that the US State Department was going to sue Bell for patent fraud, but that the case was not tried before the other inventor's death. And the other inventor also showed it off at trade shows.
So while I'm not going to pass a judgement either way myself (who knows, right?), to use it as a point one way or another simply taints the argument.