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How Marvel Is Quietly Retooling Amid Superhero Fatigue

ManaByte

Gold Member

But the Disney division is in the midst of a pretty darn good February, all things considered, despite the general gloom that surrounds the superhero genre as of late. The Super Bowl trailer for Deadpool & Wolverine became the most watched trailer of all time, with 365 million views in 24 hours. Yes, Disney’s math includes the 123 million people who tuned in for the game, which included just 30 seconds of the trailer, but Super Bowl fudging or not, the clip’s reach was an encouraging number for a studio whose last movie, The Marvels, became the lowest-grossing in the MCU’s 33-film run, hitting just $206 million globally.

Marvel also hired Joanna Calo, the showrunner of acclaimed FX series The Bear, to work on the script for Thunderbolts, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. The film will begin shooting in March in Atlanta. Her hiring adds a flair of prestige to the project, which stars Florence Pugh and — according to a source who has read previous drafts of the script — centers on villains and antiheroes going on a mission that was supposed to end with their deaths.

Marvel is also cleaning up the creative mess left in the wake of Jonathan Majors, the once-rising actor cast to play the lynchpin villain role in the next Avengers movies but who in December was found guilty of reckless assault in the third degree and harassment in a Manhattan court after a domestic incident with his ex-partner, a movement coach he met while working on Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. Marvel dropped Majors hours after the conviction and is rewriting those movies, which will now either minimize the character or excise him entirely. The first of the new Avengers movies, due out in 2026, was initially titled Avengers: The Kang Dynasty but will be getting a new title to remove the character’s name, though sources say that even before Majors’ conviction, the studio was making moves to minimize the character after Quantumania underperformed, grossing $476 million.

As the Hollywood strikes ended in November, the studio delayed Captain America: New World Order seven months to Feb. 14, 2025, to give it time to undergo reshoots. Iger touted Captain America 4, starring Anthony Mackie, as among the 2025 Disney releases he was most excited for during the earnings call. He did not mention Blade, leading to speculation it will be moved from its November 2025 date; it’s unlikely Marvel will release four films that year given Iger’s mandate to slim down.

So 2025 is just Cap 4, Thunderbolts, and F4.
 

Jaybe

Member
Mad Season 3 GIF by Rick and Morty
 

Soodanim

Gold Member
Just remember that Disney did everything to bury the X-men in the last decades.
They buried the competition. X-Men could easily get a huge push, and Deadpool's success could easily encourage that. Does anyone give a shit about Thunderbolts or even NotCap4?
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
So 2025 is just Cap 4, Thunderbolts, and F4.
That is a TERRIBLE line-up. Falcon is an on screen charisma sink (which is weird because the actor is great in interviews), who cares about the Thunderbolts, and F4 has more whiffs than hits at this point. "Back for re-shoots" just added 100 mill to Cap4's budget and will make it even harder to turn a profit, ain't no way anyone can turn round Thunderbolts in a MONTH before shooting, and F4 is just a script at this point.

It's sad, Blade seemed the easiest and most marketable film for them, vamps are cheap as shit to film, focus on good fight scenes, the diversity is baked into the IP, and there is a 2 for 3 batting average already (and hell, you could have gotten Ryan Reynolds to back-door promote it in Deadpool3). How are they fucking this all up? Even Shang-Chi was salvageable if they drop the magic CGI dragon shit for the sequel. Load it up with HK cinema greats and just wu-shu the ever living FUCK out of it.
 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
So they're going all in with Mackie. Good for him I guess because he seems like a decent bloke, but he's as compelling as a wet sponge.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
If this gives you any hope, you are stupid. Just a few days ago they announced a woke retooling of Xmen 97.

Umm... No they didn't. Show us the receipts.

They brought back SO many of the original people from behind the scenes (including Larry Houston) ... This is the storyline they were going to go with if they hadn't been cancelled. Hence, '97

Disney is tripling down on the agenda pushing BS so its going to be same shit.

Again... Show us the receipts that they're doubling down on whatever agenda you think they're pushing.

They retooled DareDevil and brought back Foggy and Karen, making his costume more comics accurate, brought back most of the team from the Netflix series...

They're redoing Capt America 4, Thunderbolts, Blade, Fantastic Four, Armor Wars, etc.

The reason, and I can't believe I have to even say this because it's OBVIOUS, like half the post-endgame movies failed is because of weak script, no interconnectedness, no obvious big bad, relying too much on Disney+ shows when most people don't know who these new characters are.

Look at how they introduced Black Panther... And that led into his own movie that went on to make over a billion!

Now that they're slowing down and giving Feige a chance to actually over see everything instead of trusting non-comic fans to do it right (plus no middle money men c/o Chapek and his MORE MORE MORE mandate), we're going back to phase 2 and 3 levels.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I guarantee if DC and Marvel made some offshoot movies like The Boys where the superheroes got hunted and killed for real (not that coming back alive in a sequel mumbo jumbo), they'd get a shit load of sales. Make it more adult orientated instead of jokes every 2 minutes and could be something cool. Look what they did with Joker movie. way different than your Batman vs Joker movie. And it was a success. Got good reviews and $1 billion box office. So there' an audience for comicbook stuff that isnt CGI every second.

I'm not a comic book fan. But it wasnt till the internet age where I'd read about how comics or Star Wars etc... could have all kinds of weird non-canon books or comics that sound so much cooler than the typical hero beats the bad guy plot.

I'm not saying Freddy vs Jason, or Alen vs Predator movies were great. But at least they were different and had cool moments in them.
 
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DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
I guarantee if DC and Marvel made some offshoot movies like The Boys where the superheroes got hunted and killed for real (not that coming back alive in a sequel mumbo jumbo), they'd get a shit load of sales. Make it more adult orientated instead of jokes every 2 minutes and could be something cool. Look what they did with Joker movie. way different than your Batman vs Joker movie. And it was a success.

I'm not a comic book fan. But it wasnt till the internet age where I'd read about how comics or Star Wars etc... could have all kinds of weird non-canon books or comics that sound so much cooler than the typical hero beats the bad guy plot.

I'm not saying Freddy vs Jason, or Alen vs Predator movies were great. But at least they were different and had cool moments in them.

Marvel and DC are not independent smaller comic establishments where you can do whatever with a popular character. They have over 70 years of stories and characters that are BELOVED to millions of fans all over the world. You're not a fan so you don't get it.

The Boys have NONE of that history so they can do whatever they want.

While DC and marvel can do Elseworlds type stories, they won't be like what you envision.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Marvel and DC are not independent smaller comic establishments where you can do whatever with a popular character. They have over 70 years of stories and characters that are BELOVED to millions of fans all over the world. You're not a fan so you don't get it.

The Boys have NONE of that history so they can do whatever they want.

While DC and marvel can do Elseworlds type stories, they won't be like what you envision.
fair enough.

Logan and Joker are very different kinds of movies based on comicbook characters. Got good reviews, modest budgets, and sold tons of tix.

Why dont studios make more movies like that? It shows there's a market for hero flicks that arent giant budget CGI battlers.
 

Trunx81

Gold Member
They retooled DareDevil and brought back Foggy and Karen, making his costume more comics accurate, brought back most of the team from the Netflix series...
Wait, what? dontgivemehope.gif

Look at how they introduced Black Panther... And that led into his own movie that went on to make over a billion!
This was something the first Marvel movies did so great. The introduction of Black Widow. After Credit Scenes that played into the next movie, not in a movie years to not be seen. Mentioning characters before introducing them (although they made a mistake with Dr. Strange in Captain America 2).

Nowadays, we have movies like The Eternals, who shaped the earth for thousands of years, but no one ever heard of them. Introduce some of them in earlier movies, just in the news, or in the background, and we can relate to them.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Wait, what? dontgivemehope.gif


This was something the first Marvel movies did so great. The introduction of Black Widow. After Credit Scenes that played into the next movie, not in a movie years to not be seen. Mentioning characters before introducing them (although they made a mistake with Dr. Strange in Captain America 2).

Nowadays, we have movies like The Eternals, who shaped the earth for thousands of years, but no one ever heard of them. Introduce some of them in earlier movies, just in the news, or in the background, and we can relate to them.
I think this approach got harder once actors realized they were signing on to a gold mine and wanted more $$$ for cameos and what not I recall a lot of discussion back in the day about whether a cameo in Thor2 counted as one of Chris Evans' contracted films, enabling him to renegotiate sooner. So with the MCU wanting actor continuity at almost any cost its expensive to sign on someone for a intro appearance before their first big film unless they are total unknowns.
 

Pidull

Member
Disney needs to focus on original content for Disney+ that's not "nostalgia!" Advertise the nostalgia with old content in addition to the new stuff, Disney+ has a ton of old classic sitcoms and animated shows on it.

"Superhero" and "Star Wars" fatigue is only as bad as it is because there's so much of it. If you want to do side stories on Disney+, then make them different timelines and universes. Not everything needs to be connected. It makes much more sense to have a Disney+ Star Wars based in The Old Republic than a bunch of shit ruining the Skywalker Saga. With Marvel, they should have "Universe 202X" be the cinematic one, and "Universe 202Y" be the Disney+ one. Maybe once every 10-15 years implement a universe crossover for fanservice, but otherwise keep things separated and easier to digest for casuals/hardcores.

Also, I hope that their introduction of the X-Men is a movie that follows Rogue's induction into the school, in which she kills Captain Marvel at the very beginning.
 
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Sonik

Member
No matter what they do I just don't give a fuck anymore, unless they're willing to make them unrecognizable from dumb comic book characters and make movies that are closer to something like Watchmen or V for Vendetta I'm done with this pop brainrot. Every time I watch this shit nowadays I feel myself lose IQ points
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Disney needs to focus on original content for Disney+ that's not "nostalgia!" Advertise the nostalgia with old content in addition to the new stuff, Disney+ has a ton of old classic sitcoms and animated shows on it.

"Superhero" and "Star Wars" fatigue is only as bad as it is because there's so much of it. If you want to do side stories on Disney+, then make them different timelines and universes. Not everything needs to be connected. It makes much more sense to have a Disney+ Star Wars based in The Old Republic than a bunch of shit ruining the Skywalker Saga. With Marvel, they should have "Universe 202X" be the cinematic one, and "Universe 202Y" be the Disney+ one. Maybe once every 10-15 years implement a universe crossover for fanservice, but otherwise keep things separated and easier to digest for casuals/hardcores.

Also, I hope that their introduction of the X-Men is a movie that follows Rogue's induction into the school, in which she kills Captain Marvel at the very beginning.
Given the performance of The Marvels, that is actually a VERY LIKELY origin, it would allow Marvel to back off a failed commercial product, they could still harp on the "proud legacy" of the character (hell, have Rogue drain ALL THREE OF THEM TO DEATH), and they could still throw in the odd flashback/head ghost cameo by one of those actresses. If Brie refuses, just do it off camera.

I definitely don't want to see "oh no, I can't touch anyone, but I have teen love" Rogue anymore, we got like 3 films of that stuff already.
 

dispensergoinup

Gold Member
Down to see F4, not really interested in Cap 4 or Thunderbolts. But yeah I'd like to see X-Men more than anything else they're going to offer up.
 

Mistake

Member
Unless someone drags me along, I'm done with superhero stuff for a long time. It will take something genuinely new and refreshing to make me come back
 

Doom85

Member
Given the performance of The Marvels, that is actually a VERY LIKELY origin, it would allow Marvel to back off a failed commercial product, they could still harp on the "proud legacy" of the character (hell, have Rogue drain ALL THREE OF THEM TO DEATH), and they could still throw in the odd flashback/head ghost cameo by one of those actresses. If Brie refuses, just do it off camera.

Okay, A) Rogue didn’t even kill Carol by doing that in the comics,
B) ah yes, that’s how I want Rogue brought into the MCU, KILLING A TEENAGER.

Justin Timberlake What GIF


I have faith that whoever writes the first X-men won’t resort to lame edgelord emo shit like this. Rogue should be fun with a bit of occasional angst, not having three innocent people’s deaths on her hands, that ruins her character.

It’s also stupid. Marvel should be building all bridges, not burning any. Even if a movie or show underperformed, killing a main character off in a mean spirited fashion still alienated the fans that character did have. Reducing appearances is one thing, flat out killing a character with a very clear middle finger is a whole other ball park.
 

NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt

Biggest Trails Stan
Out of those mentioned

I'm interested in

Fantastic Four - The casting announcement gives me hope. My only issue is Pedro Pascal as Mr Fantastic. I like him as an actor but he shows up in everything. But I'm keeping an open mind when it comes to him. As for the rest of the cast, they all look like the perfect casting to me.

Deadpool 3- I was never a fan of Deadpool and I think the meta humor is way overdone nowadays. But I did enjoy the trailer. Happy to see the TVA involved too.

Maybe

Captain America 4- I think that Falcon And The Winter Soldier would have been a fantastic show if they took out the race politics. I like Sam as Captain America. The show had a lot of memorable action scenes, great character moments, Baron Zemo, etc. But the villain and the SJW stuff really brought it down.. So for me this is a maybe

Thunderbolts- The main cast look cookie cutter to me and don't have any distinguishing powers from each other. They are all Super Soldiers. But since it involves Hyperion, I'm more interested. I admit not knowing much of his character but hearing about his story in the comics makes me much more interested in wanting to watch this movie. And eventually read the comics involving him

Skip

X-Men 97- Most of MCU Animation Projects are a skip for me. I don't have the mental capacity to sit through What If Season 2. I thought the first season was ok. I saw the trailer for this and I hate the animation style. I'm like that looks terrible. I'm fine with the 3D look which looks great in stills but when it comes to watching the trailer, the animations make it unwatchable for me. Rogue Being Neutered in the ASS department turns me off. Seeing and reading that this Blue Hair Women is one of the main creators on it really really turns me off

I'm more on a wait and see when it comes to future MCU stuff
 
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MayauMiao

Member
I don't know why X-Men can be seen as a saving the MCU, let alone Fantastic Four.

Its not like we never had those movies before.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
I don't know why X-Men can be seen as a saving the MCU, let alone Fantastic Four.

Its not like we never had those movies before.

Never had them with other characters not from their books. You've never seen Wolverine with Black Panther or Reed Richards with StarLord. Those movies were self contained universes where there were no other heroes... Only mutants existed in the X-Men movies. No Inhumans, no avengers, no namor, etc.

As a comic geek, I've always wanted to see the FULL comics universe onscreen... Not piecemeal with no interaction. I've been a fan of Marvel and DC comics since I was a kid .. for about 40 years now. The MCU has been a dream come true!
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
It’s also stupid. Marvel should be building all bridges, not burning any. Even if a movie or show underperformed, killing a main character off in a mean spirited fashion still alienated the fans that character did have. Reducing appearances is one thing, flat out killing a character with a very clear middle finger is a whole other ball park.
The AUDIENCE gave everything Captain/Ms. Marvel related the financial middle finger. They have nothing to gain keeping these characters around and everything to lose if they don't make a very tangible show of "we have heard you and will do better". Plus they need them out of the way to explain why Carol isn't solving every problem by brunch.

She doesn't even have to kill them. Just have them go poof in a puff of smoke and Rogue has 1 vision of the three Marvel's in a pocket dimension getting a mani/pedi, remarking on how nice it is to finally take a break. Then Rogue can always split one off 5-10 years later if needed because a green comet flew by or whatever silly shit a COMIC BOOK SHOW needs to justify anything. No need for Rogue pathos or any of that.
 
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Doom85

Member
The AUDIENCE gave everything Captain/Ms. Marvel related the financial middle finger. They have nothing to gain keeping these characters around and everything to lose if they don't make a very tangible show of "we have heard you and will do better". Plus they need them out of the way to explain why Carol isn't solving every problem by brunch.

She doesn't even have to kill them. Just have them go poof in a puff of smoke and Rogue has 1 vision of the three Marvel's in a pocket dimension getting a mani/pedi, remarking on how nice it is to finally take a break. Then Rogue can always split one off 5-10 years later if needed because a green comet flew by or whatever silly shit a COMIC BOOK SHOW needs to justify anything. No need for Rogue pathos or any of that.

You do realize by giving Rogue three sets of powers, two of which she didn’t even have in the comics, you’re basically having them repeat the same mistake they did with Emilia Clarke at the end of Secret Invasion AKA one of the, if not the, dumbest decisions in the MCU?

Also, Carol solving problems? She’s outside of Earth most of the time, her existing doesn’t cause a problem for X-men stories. If anything, powerful characters active on Earth like Dr. Strange would be more of an issue, but they can always hand wave it away as “they’re busy” as they have always done. Mind you, I don’t even like Carol, but that’s more due to Brie not even trying anymore in the role (and she can act well as seen in non-Marvel films, she’s clearly got some Jennifer Lawrence attitude when Lawrence decided to stop trying as Mystique), but I see no need to kill her off when one can just have her out in the universe far away.

And no, historically in the comic book world, showing disrespecting to characters simply because their sales are lower has not ended well. When the Ultimate Marvel universe comics sell started dwindling, Jeph Loeb wrote the infamous event Ultimatum that permanently killed off tons of characters with the plans to bring in a bunch of new characters to give readers a fresh start and boost sales. Instead, sales went down further and eventually they just had to get rid of the Ultimate universe (Ultimate Spider-man was the only one not affected as Brian Michael Bendis did not allow the event to affect his series, and Miles obviously went on to join the main verse). Instead getting better writers to tell better stories with these characters, they went the lazy “just kill them” route like you suggested and lo and behold it failed.

Because if they’re willing to kill off characters in a mean spirited way just because their sales went down, whats stopping them from doing the same to a character you like when that character’s sales hypothetically go down? It sets a bad precedent, and if they do this, no, they did NOT hear us and did NOT do better, instead they took the lazy route instead of actually utilizing good writing.

Now, take Green Lantern and Geoff Johns. In the 90’s, there was an infamous storyline where after his home city is destroyed, Hal Jordan goes insane, begin thinking like a mad god, murders all the Guardians and fellow Lantern Kilowog, and only “redeems” himself by sacrificing himself to save everyone from another threat.

This brought in new Lantern, Kyle Rayner, and understandably, fans of Hal were very unhappy. So Geoff Johns came in to fix this by resurrecting Hal and also revealing Hal had been possessed by an entity called Parallex and was not in control of his murderous actions. But he kept Kyle around and active as well, saying in an interview you don’t shut out one group of fans just to please another, that’s bad business and not a good way to treat your fans.

Like, even if her show underperformed (but hey, maybe next time don’t release it alongside a new Star Wars show, for fucks’ sake!), Ms. Marvel had people who liked her show and her in particular. Why throw ANY amount of good will away for actually no reason? Yes, now is not the time to have her leading her own big budget film, but there’s no good reason she can’t appear in a Young Avengers film or show with Peter Parker and Kate Bishop. And yes, maybe a hypothetical Season 2 of Ms. Marvel, but this time give us a more compelling villain (The Inventor would have been a fun Season 1 villain, he was great in the early comics) and directors who know how to make actually good action scenes (this goes double for Moon Knight, those “action” scenes were embarrassing to look at).

A character having a smaller set of fans should not be reason for the writers to go out of one’s way to piss off those fans and ignore them.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
The AUDIENCE gave everything Captain/Ms. Marvel related the financial middle finger. They have nothing to gain keeping these characters around and everything to lose if they don't make a very tangible show of "we have heard you and will do better". Plus they need them out of the way to explain why Carol isn't solving every problem by brunch.

She doesn't even have to kill them. Just have them go poof in a puff of smoke and Rogue has 1 vision of the three Marvel's in a pocket dimension getting a mani/pedi, remarking on how nice it is to finally take a break. Then Rogue can always split one off 5-10 years later if needed because a green comet flew by or whatever silly shit a COMIC BOOK SHOW needs to justify anything. No need for Rogue pathos or any of that.

Do you know how long I've waited for Spectrum to come to the big screen? Or even Blue Marvel? There was nothing wrong with the portrayal of Monica. She wasn't what was wrong with the movie.

Like I said before, most people didn't watch WandaVision... And if they did, they don't remember her from the show. Spectrum, Blue Marvel ( and their romance), the Shi'ar, Squadron Supreme, Brother Voodoo, Etc... I've wanted to see them ALL on film. I want to see Peter meet Wolverine. I want to see Monica team up with Storm... I want to see Eric team up with Kang or Namor.

But the movie didn't fail because of what you said in your post. I explained why I think it did and I think my thoughts on it are closer to the truth than "woke" or "annoying women" or "fangirl teen".
 
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