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[nkarafo]

The last consoles i ever bought was the XBOX 360 and Nintendo Wii. Ever since then i only game on PCs.

I do play some games on these consoles from time to time. But mostly slow paced single player games. And my Wii is hooked on a CRT TV.

Yesterday it was the first time after many years where i got to a friend's house and played some competitive local multiplayer game, mainly the new release of DOOM by NightDive on Switch.

Now i play DOOM a lot on my PC. Both the originals and lots of newer wads and more recently, Eviternity 2. And the moment i started playing on Switch, the input delay felt unbearable. Like literally unplayable to me at first. I just couldn't hit any target without trying to readjust my brain and think about it consciously. It was really annoying.

Now we checked the settings. The TV is a brand new Samsung model, i have a much older model but still has mostly the same settings at the same places. I double checked "game mode" is enabled and no settings that would make the TV slower are enabled. With the same settings my TV is fine (i use both a 240hz PC monitor and that regular ass 60hz LCD TV), So i don't think it's the TV at fault here.

After a while i adjusted and could play semi decently. My friends had no issues whatsoever from the get go, they thought i'm too demanding or exaggerating. But the initial feel was honestly really bad and when i got back to my PC the difference was like night and day.

Is this really a console thing? Or maybe just a Switch thing? Was the TV faulty or we missed some odd setting? Could it be the specific game/port at fault here?

 

[Dacvak]

Yep, generally speaking it is. On top of the added latency you might have with some wireless controllers, PCs generally have higher frame rates, which equal lower latency per frame.

For example, if you’re playing DOOM on your PC at 120fps, each frame is around 8ms long. Whereas when you play on the switch at 30fps, each frame is 33ms. On top of that, you often have double-triple screen buffering on some console games to avoid things like screen tearing, which can literally triple the amount of latency.

Generally speaking, console games at 60fps usually have end-to-end latency of 60-100ms, depending on a few factors like your TV. PCs, especially at higher frame rates with wired hardware, can be at low as 20-30ms end-to-end.

 

[Lupin3]

Don't know if it's a console thing, but it's definitely a Switch thing. Some games are just unplayable docked for me. Game mode on and all that, the lag can still be ridiculous.

 

[kevboard]

it's all entirely based on how much the developers care, and on each individual game.

generally speaking no. if you play the exact same game on PC and Console, and use Vsync to the same target framerate in both versions, they will most likely have the same amount of input lag. in fact some games have more input lag on PC if all parameters are the same.

however, due to the fact that you can almost always disable Vsync, rely on Nvidia fast sync, and sometimes have options like Nvidia's Reflex, you often have options that console versions do not have.
bad vsync choices can add a lot of latency. which can be seen in the video where DF tested a mod for Bloodborne on PS4, that used Sony's system level half refresh vsync. using this eliminated the frametime stutter but added A SHITLOAD of input lag, and in the end makes the game feel like ass to play, even tho the framerate is identical.

other ways to overcome latency is of course higher framerates or simply having a beefier GPU and CPU. Nvidia Reflex's main function is to limit your GPU usage to keep it from stalling and to synchonise it with the CPU. if your hardware is mostly underutilized, this basically happens on its own.
so if you play at 60fps and your GPU and CPU can JUUUUUST ABOUT hit 60fps, your latency will be higher than if you had a GPU and CPU that could easily run the game at way higher framerates. so a console version that stresses the hardware to its absolute max will give you more latency.


example, on Base PS5, if you play Spider-Man 2 in fidelity mode with an unlocked framerate (vrr mode), your average input lag is higher than if you play the fidelity mode at a locked 40fps. even tho the unlocked mode runs at higher framerates, the fact that it maxes out the hardware and pushes the GPU to its absolute limit, means higher latency, as the slightly higher framerates aren't enough to counter the latency added by the maxed out GPU.

however, if you play GoW Ragnarök in perfomance mode unlocked, your latency will go down by a lot, as the framerate increase is high enough to counteract the added latency of a fully stressed GPU, and because its default vsync is absolutely shit.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Don't know if it's a console thing, but it's definitely a Switch thing. Some games are just unplayable docked for me. Game mode on and all that, the lag can still be ridiculous.

Switch Pro Controller has a ton of input lag compared to the Sony and MS controllers

 

[nkarafo]

Yep, generally speaking it is. On top of the added latency you might have with some wireless controllers, PCs generally have higher frame rates, which equal lower latency per frame.

For example, if you’re playing DOOM on your PC at 120fps, each frame is around 8ms long. Whereas when you play on the switch at 30fps, each frame is 33ms. On top of that, you often have double-triple screen buffering on some console games to avoid things like screen tearing, which can literally triple the amount of latency.

Generally speaking, console games at 60fps usually have end-to-end latency of 60-100ms, depending on a few factors like your TV. PCs, especially at higher frame rates with wired hardware, can be at low as 20-30ms end-to-end.

Thing is, even if i play on my 60hz TV, at 60fps with a wireless XBOX controller, i'm still not getting as much lag. DOOM still runs fine for me (yes, i'm playing DOOM with a dual analog controller).

 

[Lupin3]

Switch Pro Controller has a ton of input lag compared to the Sony and MS controllers

Which is unfortunate, because it feels so damn good in the hand.

Ladies...

 

[kevboard]

Thing is, even if i play on my 60hz TV, at 60fps with a wireless XBOX controller, i'm still not getting as much lag. DOOM still runs fine for me (yes, i'm playing DOOM with a dual analog controller).

could be bad vsync, the Switch being completely at its limit, or the Switch controller's polling rate (which many have criticised before, especially in the Splatoon community)

 

[Senua]

 

[SweetTooth]

They are within the same ballpark except for Nintendo which uses outdated everything!

 

[Mister Wolf]

Yes. Even more so since things like Nvidia Reflex now exist.

 

[RobRSG]

RE4 Remake on Xbox and PS5 is pretty laggy when compared to the PC version.

 

[Madserb2023]

Yes. TVs have more lag than a decent monitor. It is balanced out by lag not being as noticeable on a controller compared to a mouse.

 

[Sophist]

More the animations will be realistic, greater the input lag will be.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yes. There is tech on pc further reducing input lag.

 

[cireza]

Switch sucks for sure.

I have great memories of the PS Vita. Input lag was non-existant, just as good as old consoles on CRT. Of course it is a handheld, so input lag had no reason to exist. As someone who plays Dead or Alive a ton, it was pretty obvious that some frames were gained on Vita compared to Xbox (which is still fine overall).

 

[winjer]

For the most part, yes.
PCs have higher frame rates, technologies like Antilag and Reflex, and peripherals with higher polling rate are common.
On the side of consoles, there is usually more usage of OLEDs, which have much lower latency than most PC monitors.

 

[Porcile]

Switch is laggy to begin with and all controllers perform differently whether it‘s wired, wireless or Bluetooth. Throw in modern TV lag and getting optimal results from a Switch is actually a complicated task.

 

[keefged4]

Yup. Especially if you are playing 30fps content on a console. 30fps on PC with reflex makes a massive difference, more than you'd think.

 

[Schmendrick]

Yep, consoles are still very much behind in that regard. Haven`t seen catastrophic differences anymore since RDR2 but it`s still very much perceivable when you have the direct comparison.

 

[lh032]

Higher input delay has cinematic feel for us console master race

 

[Vick]

No.

But it is the case when using Nvidia Reflex, even if not always:

Biggest factor when it comes to input lag is your monitor.
I for instance literally can't play on LCD's where even 60fps feel awful compared to 30fps on my panel. On proper tech you don't even need Game Modes and the likes, the simple calibrated mode used for all content works flawlessly.

Slowed down 50%:

Slowed down 30%:

Two third person games that once released on PC sparked lots of complaints about their input latency.

S Schmendrick Maybe instead of laughing you want to refute the Nvidia-Sponsored DF AD showing PC games natively having more input lag than console ones?

 

[Spiral1407]

Yeah, but I barely notice it.

 

[thief183]

I stopped playing on the switch for this reason, can't speak about the other consoles tho.

I noticed that recalibrating the controller made it less noticeable but it only lasted a session, .

 

[TrebleShot]

Sometimes, not always depends on the console.
PS5 has excellent input latency and the controller can poll at 1k hz.
Most games you can now unlock the HZ and dont use VSYNC which can cause input delay.

PC with a xbox controller polls at 250hz which is technically higher and slower compared to PS5 controllers etc but in reality its hard to tell a difference.

Of course running games at 120fps and above youll notice snappier controls.

Its more to do with display. OLED v good.

 

[nkarafo]

Vick

Thanks for that detailed report.

In this particular case that i'm describing in the OP, i'm not using Nvidia reflex. I don't think i ever used that tbh. I also don't know about other games, the only one we played was DOOM on Switch.

I do have a very fast 240hz vrr monitor, yes. But i'm not comparing my experience to that. I'm comparing it with my 60hz LCD TV from 2018 or something (i have both panels connected on PC). My friend's TV is a brand new 2024 model. Yet, playing DOOM with any sourceport or the Nightdive port feels much more responsive on PC with my 60hz TV. And not just with my current PC but also the one i had since 2014.

Maybe it's just the Switch. I do remember some years ago feeling Tetris on Switch was also somewhat laggy (don't remember the exact version of the game). And then my friend had a different TV too.

 

[owandeseis]

S Schmendrick Maybe instead of laughing you want to refute the Nvidia-Sponsored DF AD showing PC games natively having more input lag than console ones?

But who on PC doesn't remove VSYNC for example, or why wouldn't these users just use the technology that's available there, with that games like GoW or Deathloop get less than half or even 1/3 of the latency on consoles, and that's without considering you can reduce settings and get more than 60 FPS in these games.

To the OP, yes, and it sucks in games where having fast reactions can help, in Fifa for example it sucks when you do a first touch pass before you get the ball but due to that extra latency your player just controls the ball instead of instantly passing it



This said, on 99,9% of games it really doesn't matter, can't think of anyone worrying about this on an Assassins Creed for example

 

[ArtHands]

Generally speaking yes. Most fighting games are best played on PC for this reason. The other reason is the fight stick compatibility

 

[Wildebeest]

Maybe if you play on a big HD TV at 60 hz or lower, you just have to live with it.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

But who on PC doesn't remove VSYNC for example, or why wouldn't these users just use the technology that's available there, with that games like GoW or Deathloop get less than half or even 1/3 of the latency on consoles, and that's without considering you can reduce settings and get more than 60 FPS in these games.

To the OP, yes, and it sucks in games where having fast reactions can help, in Fifa for example it sucks when you do a first touch pass before you get the ball but due to that extra latency your player just controls the ball instead of instantly passing it



This said, on 99,9% of games it really doesn't matter, can't think of anyone worrying about this on an Assassins Creed for example

You dont need to turn off V-sync on PC if you have VRR display / gsync monitor to reduce input lag. If you limit the frame rate just below your monitor maximum refresh rate and use vsync, you will not get any input lag penalty (in fact you will get even lower input lag even compared to Vsync off). On my 170Hz monitor I always cap my games at 167fps, but even without this method Vsync input lag is very low at 170Hz (higher refresh rate lowers vsync input lag). Vsync input lag is noticeable if your monitor is 60Hz.

But yes, PC input lag is generally lower because most people are playing at much higher fps and on high refresh rate monitors. Also, things like nvidia reflex drastically reduce input lag. I usually see 14-20ms input lag on my PC if game max out my monitor refresh rate, and even with DLSS FrameGeneration I still get a perfectly responsive experience, for example I measured 42ms in Black Myth Wukong even with DLSS FG, and 34ms in Horizon Remaster with DLSS FG.

 

[twilo99]

Yes.

Has anyone compared the input lag between PS5 vs. Pro ? I’m still curious to see if PSSR carries a performance penalty

 

[Zug]

After finally reaching mostly 60fps (again), input lag is indeed something that console games could improve on.

 

[RoboFu]

Lots of reasons really for input lag.
Wireless adds lag, abstraction layers adds lag, low frame rates add lag.

It's not like the 8 and 16bit days where you have a wire that gets read directly by the hardware during the vblank.

It's one of the main reasons I can still kill at super Mario on an actual nes but not on emulator.

 

[AJUMP23]

Yes.

That is why to guitar games came with calibration.

 

[twilo99]

Generally speaking yes. Most fighting games are best played on PC for this reason. The other reason is the fight stick compatibility

competitive e sport titles / competitions across the board mostly run on PCs for a very good reason..

 

[Dacvak]

Thing is, even if i play on my 60hz TV, at 60fps with a wireless XBOX controller, i'm still not getting as much lag. DOOM still runs fine for me (yes, i'm playing DOOM with a dual analog controller).

Yeah, because DOOM on Switch runs at half the framerate with (iirc) triple-buffered vsync. It’s mathematically almost double the latency.

 

[Radical_3d]

 

[nkarafo]

It's one of the main reasons I can still kill at super Mario on an actual nes but not on emulator.

RetroArch + 240hz VRR display + Sync to content frame rate option + Hard GPU sync = Very low input lag.

On top of that you can also use the "Run ahead" option. This one reduces the native game lag which means it can go lower than a real, wired console on CRT TV.

Yeah, because DOOM on Switch runs at half the framerate with (iirc) triple-buffered vsync. It’s mathematically almost double the latency.

Pretty sure it runs at 60fps.

I'm talking about the classic DOOM, not DOOM eternal.

 

[Dacvak]

RetroArch + 240hz VRR display + Sync to content frame rate option + Hard GPU sync = Very low input lag.

On top of that you can also use the "Run ahead" option. This one reduces the native game lag which means it can go lower than a real, wired console on CRT TV.



Pretty sure it runs at 60fps.

I'm talking about the classic DOOM, not DOOM eternal.

Ohhhh, yeah you’re right then. Interesting, it shouldn’t have that big of a difference. I can take some latency timings later today cause now you’ve got me curious.

 

[nkarafo]

Ohhhh, yeah you’re right then. Interesting, it shouldn’t have that big of a difference. I can take some latency timings later today cause now you’ve got me curious.

If you have a semi decent PC you should be able to use all mentioned options.

Be careful with the run ahead option. Don't put too many frames because if you exceed the native input lag, you are going to get missing frames and other oddities. Use the frame advance trick to see how many frames of lag each game has (press "P" for pause, hold the jump button, tap the "next frame" key while still holding the jump button, i think it's "K" by default. Each time you tap it and nothing happens it's 1 frame of lag. So, if you see your character reacting on the 4th tap, that means it has 3 frames of lag you can shave off).

Some hints:

- A lot of Atari 2600 games have zero native lag.
- A lot of Arcade games also have zero lag, like Bubble Bobble.
- Super Mario World on the SNES has 2 frames of lag.
- Mortal Kombat games on SNES are very bad, they have as many as 5 or more frames of lag.
- For most 8/16 bit console emulators, 1 frame of run ahead should be safe for all games.
- Run Ahead is not available on more complex system emulators like the N64, Saturn, etc.
- It's also not available on the MAME core but it's available on FBNeo.

 

[Sophist]

nvidia reflex is a meme targeting online fps players, like those >1000 hz mouses.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Yes. Even more so since things like Nvidia Reflex now exist.

No idea how the new anti-lag+ performs but it used to be pretty bad also even on AMD hardware.

Even without reflex or anti-lag, Nvidia somehow has the latency advantage on AMD as a baseline.

Radeon Anti-Lag vs. NVIDIA Reflex Competition - Latency comparison with clear winner | Page 13 | igor´sLAB

It’s that time again: Latency Time for eSports enthusiasts and of course those who want to become one. Besides high FPS and low – constant – frame times, latency can make the difference between…

www.igorslab.de

Raw reflex vs anti-lag, the 3070Ti 4K at 109 fps beats the 6700XT 1080p 211 fps in latency. Try to make sense of that

Or this, which is without reflex

And consoles don’t have any form of anti-lag as far as I know? Nvidia natively has the advantage.

 

[Kasane89]

Xbox is okay, but most games on PS5 are locked to 60hz and feel laggier on my high refresh monitor compared to PC. On PC you can run almost anything with 144hz or more (hz=/=fps).

 

[PianistaMacabro]

Only way to play smb3 on switch is handheld. With pro controller docked It has so much lag that is unplayable