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marquimvfs
Member
Don't think we will see another crash like the one USA lived in Atari age. But for sure several big studios will go out of business. Today is easier to live just with overseas titles than it was at the time of the first crash, so, occidental market will for sure start copying whatever is doing great among the community.
Aenima
Member
The only thing crashing is western woke studios trying to shove agendas down players throats. For a decade now that western studios has dictated what players should enjoy and what is problematic, and finally players "woke" up and are voting with they wallets. THe power was always in the consumer side, but only now is being used to shape the direction games should go. Alot of studios are just learning it in the hard way.
Madflavor
Member
Gaming is too big and too diverse for an industry wide crash. I do think however there’s some level of an economic reckoning for the Western market due sometime soon. They’ve had a horrendous past couple of years, especially 2024. Overbloated budgets for games nobody wants. I expect course corrections down the pipeline.
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6502
Member
It is a difficult enough industry without baiting a huge chunk of the audience and generating negative consequences. Either proclamations of toxic gamers are the problem will win a new dedicated audience and the companies will be fine churning out the same product, companies will recognise the issue and correct accordingly before they lose the market or they will be in denial and fail until bust.
Looking at the streaming and movie industries I am not confident option 2 will be here any time soon.
Looking at the streaming and movie industries I am not confident option 2 will be here any time soon.
rm082e
Member
"Are we headed for another gaming industry crash?"
No. But we are in the middle of a years long "rightsizing" event. We'll see more consolidation, more developers shutting down, and maybe even a publisher going away (Ubisoft). But a crash like the old days just isn't possible anymore due to the size and dynamics of the market. It's probably going to take another 18 months before things are settled.
No. But we are in the middle of a years long "rightsizing" event. We'll see more consolidation, more developers shutting down, and maybe even a publisher going away (Ubisoft). But a crash like the old days just isn't possible anymore due to the size and dynamics of the market. It's probably going to take another 18 months before things are settled.
Plague Doctor
Member
They need to return to market research and see what their actual audience, the bulk of their consumers, wants.
They need to excise this bubble of devs and its incestous relationship with journo's and consultants, and just listen to feedback from their own communities that buy in.
Then they need to retain talent and institutional knowledge so the studios grow as they move forward.
This has been corrupted by a cross section of vanity projects of one or a handful of leadership team member they bet the farm on, and trend chasing the next get rich scheme. They always over spend, deafen themselves to community feedback, and then rush games out that changed directions atleast 3 times.
They need to excise this bubble of devs and its incestous relationship with journo's and consultants, and just listen to feedback from their own communities that buy in.
Then they need to retain talent and institutional knowledge so the studios grow as they move forward.
This has been corrupted by a cross section of vanity projects of one or a handful of leadership team member they bet the farm on, and trend chasing the next get rich scheme. They always over spend, deafen themselves to community feedback, and then rush games out that changed directions atleast 3 times.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Like it's been said, the '84 crash was different.
I'll say this: I do believe there's a correction happening right now, but it'll mostly impact the glut of independent games clogging up the stores. Either through a general collapse of sales in that area, a shift in curation policy from the big stores, or both.
That aside, I am not one of the doubters of the western AAA survival and continued dominance.
I'll say this: I do believe there's a correction happening right now, but it'll mostly impact the glut of independent games clogging up the stores. Either through a general collapse of sales in that area, a shift in curation policy from the big stores, or both.
That aside, I am not one of the doubters of the western AAA survival and continued dominance.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I think what will happen is only bonafide AAA sellers get the big budgets. COD, Fortnite etc...
The days of a Concord or SW Outlaws or Veilguard getting giant budgets and 8 years of dev time are basically over. If that means the studio has to dumb down to a AA budget game then so be it.
And there's still more fat to trim. Lots of game studios gone and layoffs. More to come. I'm hoping game studios rightsize to being efficient groups like the old days where a group of 10 or 15 nerd looking dudes who truly care about games are making the games. Get back to the ones who are passionate about games. Not passionate about company paid cooking and knitting classes. I'm not saying it's possible in modern day to rightsize to that small of a group, but you know what I mean. Cut out the crazies and HR DEI promoters eating up budget and steering the games in the wrong direction.
What should solidify no more wasted resources is that interest rates are still high. So gambling all that money at rock bottom 2% business loans is over. Companies will adjust their spending as they got to take into account 7% debts now.
Back in the 90s was crazy. Read up on old games and it might had sold only 250,000 or 500,000 copies on PC. And that was considered a success and worthy of a sequel. Now, if a decent budget game sells 2M copies, it still might be an unprofitable turd. And the retail prices of games has even gone up and most games dont even have to worry about shipping the disc in a cardboard box either..
The days of a Concord or SW Outlaws or Veilguard getting giant budgets and 8 years of dev time are basically over. If that means the studio has to dumb down to a AA budget game then so be it.
And there's still more fat to trim. Lots of game studios gone and layoffs. More to come. I'm hoping game studios rightsize to being efficient groups like the old days where a group of 10 or 15 nerd looking dudes who truly care about games are making the games. Get back to the ones who are passionate about games. Not passionate about company paid cooking and knitting classes. I'm not saying it's possible in modern day to rightsize to that small of a group, but you know what I mean. Cut out the crazies and HR DEI promoters eating up budget and steering the games in the wrong direction.
What should solidify no more wasted resources is that interest rates are still high. So gambling all that money at rock bottom 2% business loans is over. Companies will adjust their spending as they got to take into account 7% debts now.
Back in the 90s was crazy. Read up on old games and it might had sold only 250,000 or 500,000 copies on PC. And that was considered a success and worthy of a sequel. Now, if a decent budget game sells 2M copies, it still might be an unprofitable turd. And the retail prices of games has even gone up and most games dont even have to worry about shipping the disc in a cardboard box either..
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The truth is that big games take a long time to make, and I think that thanks to the direction of development being set on recently published titles probably 5-6 years ago, what we're going through is kind of COVID-era/Peak Woke hangover.
Creative leads on under-performing products will not get second chances. Pretty much every major publisher has ended up bitten-on-the-ass by AAA titles trying to chase "the modern audience", while Asian produced titles, offering more traditional fare, has prospered.
Honestly, the writing is on the wall.
Creative leads on under-performing products will not get second chances. Pretty much every major publisher has ended up bitten-on-the-ass by AAA titles trying to chase "the modern audience", while Asian produced titles, offering more traditional fare, has prospered.
Honestly, the writing is on the wall.
Guardian Monkey
Member
Of course it’s a bubble. All industries go through corrections. There is just more competition everywhere. It’s just an adjustment. Indies are doing fine. If the AAA space can’t figure it out someone else will.
Soodanim
Gold Member
A few drops of rain isn't the entire sky falling no matter how dramatic you want to be about it.
Dev studios have disappeared, but more will appear. Games have bombed, but other games don't bomb. If everyone is lucky lessons are learned from the mistakes.
Just think about it for a moment. There are yearly sports and shooter franchises that alone would sustain multiple companies and would continue to exist. We have Nintendo thriving doing their own thing, which would survive even if everyone else disappeared overnight. You would still have indies doing their own thing, and if bigger studios failed the smaller games would get more focus. I haven't even mentioned the big live service games.
Too many diverse avenues are raking in too much money in this juggernaut industry for it to get anywhere near being considered a crash by anyone that isn't trying to draw attention by FUD headlines.
At most you can say it's hard times. It's definitely not the end times.
When there are new balances to be found, some find it and some don't. That's just the way of the world and the way of business.
Dev studios have disappeared, but more will appear. Games have bombed, but other games don't bomb. If everyone is lucky lessons are learned from the mistakes.
Just think about it for a moment. There are yearly sports and shooter franchises that alone would sustain multiple companies and would continue to exist. We have Nintendo thriving doing their own thing, which would survive even if everyone else disappeared overnight. You would still have indies doing their own thing, and if bigger studios failed the smaller games would get more focus. I haven't even mentioned the big live service games.
Too many diverse avenues are raking in too much money in this juggernaut industry for it to get anywhere near being considered a crash by anyone that isn't trying to draw attention by FUD headlines.
At most you can say it's hard times. It's definitely not the end times.
When there are new balances to be found, some find it and some don't. That's just the way of the world and the way of business.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
One more thing is that twitter controls the narrative.
When tlou2 fake rumors took over, the hype went down and people played the game with prejudice. The already hated it before playing.
Same with Forspoken of course. It was memed and hated before release without giving it a chance. And again - it was just fine. Of course I loved it because of how surprised I was since it was meant to be complete dog shit.
And then there is woke stuff. Nothing flattens your boner like politics in your escapism world
When tlou2 fake rumors took over, the hype went down and people played the game with prejudice. The already hated it before playing.
Same with Forspoken of course. It was memed and hated before release without giving it a chance. And again - it was just fine. Of course I loved it because of how surprised I was since it was meant to be complete dog shit.
And then there is woke stuff. Nothing flattens your boner like politics in your escapism world
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
gaf and that video is also a bubble.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Great video, I wholeheartedly agree with her.
How many more 8 year $200+ million bombs can this industry even withstand?
Gaming will always exist in some shape or form, but a major correction seems inevitable for the AAA Western devs.
How many more 8 year $200+ million bombs can this industry even withstand?
Gaming will always exist in some shape or form, but a major correction seems inevitable for the AAA Western devs.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Thats the company's fault, not gamers.
Making it worse is when studio employees go on social media battling it out with gamers with their own political viewpoint. Dont put politics into a game and gamers wont spread hilarious talking points about it on social media and game forums.
Only a small number of games ooze politics and those are the ones that get nailed the most.
Gaf is a bubble, but I don’t see how you can call that video a bubble, it was an objective analysis of how the industry operates, and the subsequent dysfunction it is experiencing, from someone with decades of experience in said industry
Industry is too diverse for a big crash. Studios will close but that won't affecte verything. You have a lot of small indie devs.
semiconscious
Member
this woman's good. hivemind's one of those phenomenon that's been greatly exacerbated by the internet, so much easier to stay insulated, & trick yourself into believing that everybody thinks this is all just wonderful...
i'm not really sure just how much the situation is capable of self-correcting. it's very, very deeply ingrained, & involves lots of revenue. also, you can't really clean house if you don't have other sources of talent available. if the industry does eventually slide into large language model game development, it'll be because of financial considerations & this: the lack of an experienced b-team of game development talent...
i'm not really sure just how much the situation is capable of self-correcting. it's very, very deeply ingrained, & involves lots of revenue. also, you can't really clean house if you don't have other sources of talent available. if the industry does eventually slide into large language model game development, it'll be because of financial considerations & this: the lack of an experienced b-team of game development talent...
Wildebeest
Member
These threads are great for spotting people who didn't watch the video.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Not strictly true.
You just don't hear about the sweeping layoffs and closures of indie studios because they don't get coverage and no one cares. There's too many of them on the market.
Also not strictly true.
The only Japanese publisher truly "prospering" right now is Capcom. And that's mostly because of a deluge of remakes and re-releases. To a lesser extent, Sega.
But outside of Monster, none of these games are 10-20 million + sellers.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Gaf is a bubble, but I don’t see how you can call that video a bubble, it was an objective analysis of how the industry operates, and the subsequent dysfunction it is experiencing, from someone with decades of experience in said industry
Thats why gaf is a bubble, because you think that video is relevant to the actual gaming industry and corporations. no one cares about it as much as you want to believe it. Also I never said the analysis was a bubble. I am again, talking about its relevancy. Will there be change now that an asshole is the president? Probably. Probably not. I doubt it. I am noticing a trend with gaf lately though that I am distancing myself. Most of you seem to be living in an illusion and I may actually move on from here sooner than later. Anyway, enjoy your bubbles.
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DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
lol did you even watch the video? I doubt it.
Generic
Member
Just two more weeks and the industry will crash!
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
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Raven117
Member
You have receipts on that, or just running your mouth?
Bubble or no, some games that have a certain “vibe” have been resoundingly rejected.
All in all, I do hope this recent line of failures will lead to developers taking a long hard look at what they are doing and the games they are making. If not, many western developers flat out, will not be around much longer.
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ReBurn
Gold Member
Who wants to watch a 13 minute video that could have been a 4 or 5 paragraph blog post? There's a reason people only read the title.
Guardian Monkey
Member
I didn’t say indies were insulated, I was stating to the topic which is that gaming as a whole will be fine. The video was primarily speaking to larger studios. Even if there is attrition in that space indies will take the mantle. There are just too many options out there. AAA studios don’t carry the burden as they once did.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Digital has nothing to do with it. Who wants to drive out to a store and wait around with a bunch of dorks, when you can just have it installed on your system while you’re doing other things?
The video is actually correct, the fact that the connection between players and developers has broken down is unfortunately a fact. At some point in time, studios simply stopped hearing and listening to players, and began to promoting their vision and ideas. This of course does not apply to all studios, as for the press, yes, there is a kind of bubble, but it is actually mutual - the developers have fed the press, which is actually convenient for them, and the press has created a pleasant environment for the developers to present information. Players were not included in the plans of either, as we can see. And what is happening now is that the players have simply had enough and are starting to push back, and the press can no longer cope with the pressure.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Veilguard hasnt been rejected tho. Its on mostly positive on steam and it's doing fine in sales. Not what they expected, but then again big corporations always expect A LOT. Even if it didnt have that woke character, it would've been the same. Most steam reviews barely talk about Taash. She isnt even the biggest issue with the game, far from it. Outside of gaf, only the extreme woke crap have been rejected which was Concord and that indie game. Spider-man 2 was extremely woke and yet it did absolutely fine sale-wise and people barely talked shit about it. Ragnarok was the same. Get fucking real, you guys are delusional af and my point was that video, even if its analysis is good, is irrelvant to the big triple A studios, no one will give a shit about it, hence, a bubble.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
plenty of people.
And you realize you can get physical games in many ways?
Walk to the store, ship it to PO box or whatver.
besides, digital distances us from the product a bit. Walking to the store, interaction with people or just going to media markt was a ritual. Then smell of a fresh game!
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{insert code here}
Member
I think it's only gonna happen in the West but, we won't notice it because Japan will keep doing it's thing while Korea and China both continue to step up their game.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Maybe it’s that way in Poland. In the U.S. we’ve got GameStop which people want to die, and retailers who simply don’t care.
It depends on the country and the mentality of the players, I had the good fortune to live 2.5 years in Japan, stores selling games are always crowded with people at any time of day.
Getting your butt off the couch is mostly only hard for people in the US and Central Europe =)
ChorizoPicozo
Member
She is absolutely right.
The dynamic and blurred lines between "games journalism," PR, and marketing have always existed. However, the current situation adds a layer of culture wars, in which developers, publishers, and "journos" are against gamers...(their fucking customers). In which, devs are not selling a game, but an agenda.
I hope more of these games, which are preoccupied with pushing agendas and are unprofessionally praised by the media, keep flopping as hard as possible. These crazy people in positions of power need to
of this industry.
related videos:
The dynamic and blurred lines between "games journalism," PR, and marketing have always existed. However, the current situation adds a layer of culture wars, in which developers, publishers, and "journos" are against gamers...(their fucking customers). In which, devs are not selling a game, but an agenda.
I hope more of these games, which are preoccupied with pushing agendas and are unprofessionally praised by the media, keep flopping as hard as possible. These crazy people in positions of power need to
of this industry.
related videos:
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Ah, I didn't watch the full video before posting. Silly me. It's pretty funny. I lol'd at Plato's Cave.
She's right of course. I wouldn't even say constant feedback with either gamers or the press is great. I mean, games were just fine before subreddits and discord servers that wind up creating their own echo chambers. Developers and publishers should have some level of perspective to just not do dumb shit.
She's right of course. I wouldn't even say constant feedback with either gamers or the press is great. I mean, games were just fine before subreddits and discord servers that wind up creating their own echo chambers. Developers and publishers should have some level of perspective to just not do dumb shit.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
maybe.
Here, I usually order from few online stores that sell physical games.
Usually 5-10% cheaper than psn and free delivery. Sometimes even day before release.
And in Poland, we have this "inpost" service which is a post locker to which your item can be delivered and you open it with an app. We have like 5 of these on every street. It really took off.
I can order anything with free delivery and I have 2 days to pick it up from that locker of my choosing. So I just order to one on my way back from work.
Couldn't be more convenient for physical than this. For ordering anything really
FalconPunch
Member
Great video. This lady communicates well, is self reflective and accountable. A far cry from the usual gaming personalities we see on youtube.
Raven117
Member
So. No receipts. Just goal tending as always that lacks any semblance of common sense
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mayham2199
Member
I’m sure more studios will fall but no crash. Just to many games out right now and not enough people to support them.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Suggesting that we're heading for an industry-wide crash, let alone one the one in 1983, is ridiculous. But the writing's been on the wall for AAA for a long time. The budgets have gotten more and more unsustainable and they've simultaneously decided to laser-focus on alienating actual customers. The irony of it is they've made their games more niche than actual niche games, but at 10-20x the budget.
Given modern development timelines, I seriously doubt that some AAAs are going to be able to correct course before the funding dries up. But with AA games improving like they have been, I don't really think we're losing much when that inevitably happens.
Given modern development timelines, I seriously doubt that some AAAs are going to be able to correct course before the funding dries up. But with AA games improving like they have been, I don't really think we're losing much when that inevitably happens.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
this is an recent example of media vs gamers.
so, what’s the implication? That gamers are the scum of society? nice way to engage with a customer base that just wants entertainment. Maybe they need to figure out how to get the game to run at 60 FPS first. Perhaps this access media should actually ask hard-hitting questions to inform gamers as to why this dev is delivering a sub-par product.....
so, what’s the implication? That gamers are the scum of society? nice way to engage with a customer base that just wants entertainment. Maybe they need to figure out how to get the game to run at 60 FPS first. Perhaps this access media should actually ask hard-hitting questions to inform gamers as to why this dev is delivering a sub-par product.....
Why would any singular video be relevant to corporations. Hardly any of their leadership will see it. It doesn’t negate tho what she’s saying. It’ll be market forces that facilitate change, along with cultural changes and government and economic policy.
Companies are typically responsive to their bottom line eventually, particularly with the losses we’re seeing at the moment, and the high interest rates.
Companies typically are trend chasers too, which is often downstream of cultural momentum, the cultural pendulum has swung one direction the last decade or so, and has now swung in the other. So they’ll be responsive to that (how quick is another matter).
The new presidency could be a weird one…Trump is a vengeful asshole, and ran on an avidly anti woke agenda. Musk being his puppet master and a massive gamer will likely also have an impact. This could be everything from closing down DEI departments, legally prohibiting them in some manner, or pressuring financial institutions to scrap tying loan rates to ESG scores etc. There’s a lot of factors there which could have a big impact.
The other could be the continued collapse of traditional games journalism, and the bubbling “access journalism” controversies that are becoming more apparent by the day.
Personally with the advances in ai, I don’t think we’re far away from seeing the concepts of reviews change radically. Ai will play all the games, objectively understand their qualities, and based on your trophy history be able to understand how a game should be rated for you personally. One man’s 10/10 is another man’s 1/10, which is why meta scores are kinda dumb. Likewise how do compare genres effectively? You can very realistically have a big final fantasy game get an 8/10, and the same review site give a candy crush style game 9/10. Does that mean candy crush is a better game than final fantasy? Not to mention the gulf between user scores and paid critic scores.
Games are ofcourse taking horrendously long to make right now tho, so any changes actioned today won’t materialise in end products for years. We will sadly almost certainly have many more financial catastrophes like concord and dragon age and suicide squad still to come.
bender
What time is it?
It's an interesting look at relationship between publishers/developers and gaming coverage, but it largely makes me feel out of touch. I consumed a bunch of gaming coverage starting in the late 80s when my sister got me a subscription to Nintendo Power and I followed media coverage through various formats (print -> online -> video reviews -> podcasts -> wholistic video coverage) but largely stopped once my favorite sites fell apart with GiantBomb being the final nail in the coffin. I might be out of touch, but I don't really pay attention to reviews for new releases anymore and I do wonder how influential any given site or content creator is these days when there are so many voices out there. Then again, I'm pretty set in my ways and I mostly know what I'm going to vibe with so that might put me further out of touch.
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