R6Rider
Gold Member
Post is copied from Reddit. Everything after the line break. I've reformatted it slightly to have less breaks.
This is from their Discord (https://discord.gg/urbanwolfgames) : https://discord.com/channels/585008831168249858/610394100771848197/1309266854539165746
Note that the dev isn’t a native English speaker. Also I may have copied from Discord imperfectly, so may have damaged the formatting or paragraphs breaks a little bit.
Hello Urban Wolf Games fans.
How are you doing? It’s getting colder in Korea because Winter is coming here. Like always, it’s going to be long text and heavy. Please take a cup of tea before read.
In the Last announcement, I have asked 3 things to you(and our fans) What do you want?
Today I want to talk about Quest porting.
Legendary Tales Quest Porting? Whuuut?
End of this January, Legendary Tales 1.0 was announced on State Of Play by Sony. A week later, the game has been released officially. A while after, we got a contact from Meta( Finally!! after years!! ) that they want to talk about Legendary Tales porting on Quest. And Yes, we were porting Legendary Tales last 7~8 months. Even when I made announcement on Aug with that questions above, we were working on it.
So, last 7~8 months how porting went well? Single play and Multi-play are done already. QA was running last almost 3 months already for bugs. Performance is very good and stable. I would say Alpha Level porting is done. Just we were targeting only for Quest3 and Quest3s to keep quality and make it fast.
Video of Legendary Tales port Alpha comparison vs PC.
Nevertheless today, I want to say there will be no Legendary Tales Quest releases. Why? Last 7~8 month, we were also talking with Meta long time about a thing. It was about Legendary Tales Quest porting “Funding”
Meta did want Quest port. We need money to port. Win – Win conversation it is, at least that is what I thought when it started.
But when I got first offer from them, I was really shocked. It is because they offered us just only one year salary amount of money(It’s not big!) for 50% of Revenue Share (RS, Means give them 50% of game sales cut ) as Minimum Guarantee (MG) (Theoretically its up-to 50%, So we could say we want to give you 10% only but then MG becomes way less and it means nothing)
Also that 50% cut doesn’t cover up the platform fee 30%. So, we have to give them 30% as platform fee and on top of that we have to share another 50% as funding RS.
And then we have to pay 5% for Unreal Engine fee, Taxes, etc... If anyone can do a simple math, and business man, you know what it sounds like.
Also the money they offered is MG. It means they will re-coup the money (or we have to pay them back when we start to sell the game based on our sales)
It was first Red Flag for me.
Of course refused the condition they offered and then a while later it became 10% from 50% RS like a magic. To me, it looks like they tried to rip us off and failed!
It was another Red Flag.
none of business works in this way. Sometimes we try to get 110~120% more than what we want but not 500%. (Example, 120% of 10% is 12% which can be happened in normal business situation I think. 500% of 10% is 50% which is our situation and I think it is abnormal)
But anyway it became 10%, So I was going to accept the deal because it’s frustrating. and then I asked them a thing in case. What happens IF we make DLC in the future? They said, contract effect to DLC as well. Which means if we took the 50% RS condition, we will almost never get the money and work for their platform for almost nothing but world will think we were earning tons of money.
It was the last Red Flag for me.
Let's reorganize the story:
If they lend us small amount of money(MG) under name of “Porting fund” and they will take additional 50% on top of platform fee 30%. (They take 30% + RS 50%)
And this contract effects to any kind of future DLC? So they will take same additional 50% for DLC without doing nothing?
Who idea is this? who make this stupid rules and system?
So I refused their offer entirely. We might don’t have money but we have pride and the head.
After that, we were planning release by ourself since market itself is opened. But then I started worrying about other VR indie devs. (You know I decided $55 price-tag for other indie developers and the market, I am easy worrying person)
Even well-known devs like us get this offer. What if other smaller Devs get same offer? I no more wonder why small indie VR devs can't grow in VR industries. Meta store has way beyond power than other store over VR market. because they are more than 50% market shares of VR industry. Almost None of VR indie devs can say no to Meta.
I love VR market, I want VR market grow more. This kind of deal ( 50% + 30%, and the contract can be inherited to DLC ) shouldn’t exist in the world. In fact I never heard this kind of deal in any industry nowdays.
Therefore I have decided to make a voice this time. We are not going to release Legendary Tales on Quest as Boycott. What Meta is doing is not right, they are manipulating the market with their power over market. I think people should know what is happening behind, the world should know about this.
and To the other devs, 50% deal for small amount of money is holy grail with the poison. You might need some money but it won’t help your future. It may quench your thirst now, but you may end up repeating drinking them. Please think twice.
Now, probably Meta hates us. Can we survive in VR market?
When I saw the VR first time, I fell in love with it, and I am sure I tried to make VR market better with whatever I could do.
As everyone know, Legendary Tales itself started on Oculus Quest1. Last years, we always wanted to get into Quest market and did everything to be a member of them. and finally we met them and I realized that it was just one-side love for Meta that was filled with greed.
Meta probably will hate us, and we all know we can not survive in VR market without Meta store. So, we would leave VR market.
The text got too long, and sad. I feel I have to something good things for you.
Our original plan was, IF it is possible, we wanted to release 3 VR games in next 4~5 years.
the first plan is.. We are actually working on a DLC for Legendary Tales. DLC plan is going well, so you can be excited. If I talk about DLC today, the text will be longer, Instead I will leave a concept of boss fight video. It is on development but you will see the idea of what we are working on. Our boss fight is really fun, It’s 5 years of VR development experience aggregation.
Maybe next week or a bit later, I will reveal more information about DLC.
And YES, we were working on porting and making DLC at same time. When I felt something is going wrong with Meta first time, I shifted half of internal resources into DLC plan. Meta knows about this. Prepare plan B is always right
Another thing is, We are working on another VR game slowly. ( as side project since we are working on DLC ) I can’t reveal anything yet, because we are changing this plan since things didn’t go well with Meta. It was originally planned as a VR game, but we will shift this as a Hybrid game. Let’s think It’s our VR market exit plan. But we will do our best to make the best VR experience for the last time. We will surprise you when we are ready.
One last thing is We were making plan for another VR game ( fun multiplay game ) but we scrapped it out. Because you know, same reason above... Instead we maybe work on Non-VR game in the future.
Anyway text got tooooooo long now. It’s time to wrap up.
Don’t misunderstand, I don’t hate Meta. I still love VR and will love. I still believe VR is a future. But I want Meta to know that how broken system they have and I hope they can fix it.
Until they fix things, we will away from their Market. I hope you, our fans, can support us and feel free to share with others what happened. See you soon, Next time I will bring more details about DLC.
Warm Regards, BJ
This is from their Discord (https://discord.gg/urbanwolfgames) : https://discord.com/channels/585008831168249858/610394100771848197/1309266854539165746
Note that the dev isn’t a native English speaker. Also I may have copied from Discord imperfectly, so may have damaged the formatting or paragraphs breaks a little bit.
Hello Urban Wolf Games fans.
How are you doing? It’s getting colder in Korea because Winter is coming here. Like always, it’s going to be long text and heavy. Please take a cup of tea before read.
In the Last announcement, I have asked 3 things to you(and our fans) What do you want?
- We make DLC of Legendary Tales?
- Quest porting?
- Make new game?
Today I want to talk about Quest porting.
Legendary Tales Quest Porting? Whuuut?
End of this January, Legendary Tales 1.0 was announced on State Of Play by Sony. A week later, the game has been released officially. A while after, we got a contact from Meta( Finally!! after years!! ) that they want to talk about Legendary Tales porting on Quest. And Yes, we were porting Legendary Tales last 7~8 months. Even when I made announcement on Aug with that questions above, we were working on it.
So, last 7~8 months how porting went well? Single play and Multi-play are done already. QA was running last almost 3 months already for bugs. Performance is very good and stable. I would say Alpha Level porting is done. Just we were targeting only for Quest3 and Quest3s to keep quality and make it fast.
Video of Legendary Tales port Alpha comparison vs PC.
Nevertheless today, I want to say there will be no Legendary Tales Quest releases. Why? Last 7~8 month, we were also talking with Meta long time about a thing. It was about Legendary Tales Quest porting “Funding”
Meta did want Quest port. We need money to port. Win – Win conversation it is, at least that is what I thought when it started.
But when I got first offer from them, I was really shocked. It is because they offered us just only one year salary amount of money(It’s not big!) for 50% of Revenue Share (RS, Means give them 50% of game sales cut ) as Minimum Guarantee (MG) (Theoretically its up-to 50%, So we could say we want to give you 10% only but then MG becomes way less and it means nothing)
Also that 50% cut doesn’t cover up the platform fee 30%. So, we have to give them 30% as platform fee and on top of that we have to share another 50% as funding RS.
And then we have to pay 5% for Unreal Engine fee, Taxes, etc... If anyone can do a simple math, and business man, you know what it sounds like.
Also the money they offered is MG. It means they will re-coup the money (or we have to pay them back when we start to sell the game based on our sales)
It was first Red Flag for me.
Of course refused the condition they offered and then a while later it became 10% from 50% RS like a magic. To me, it looks like they tried to rip us off and failed!
It was another Red Flag.
none of business works in this way. Sometimes we try to get 110~120% more than what we want but not 500%. (Example, 120% of 10% is 12% which can be happened in normal business situation I think. 500% of 10% is 50% which is our situation and I think it is abnormal)
But anyway it became 10%, So I was going to accept the deal because it’s frustrating. and then I asked them a thing in case. What happens IF we make DLC in the future? They said, contract effect to DLC as well. Which means if we took the 50% RS condition, we will almost never get the money and work for their platform for almost nothing but world will think we were earning tons of money.
It was the last Red Flag for me.
Let's reorganize the story:
If they lend us small amount of money(MG) under name of “Porting fund” and they will take additional 50% on top of platform fee 30%. (They take 30% + RS 50%)
And this contract effects to any kind of future DLC? So they will take same additional 50% for DLC without doing nothing?
Who idea is this? who make this stupid rules and system?
So I refused their offer entirely. We might don’t have money but we have pride and the head.
After that, we were planning release by ourself since market itself is opened. But then I started worrying about other VR indie devs. (You know I decided $55 price-tag for other indie developers and the market, I am easy worrying person)
Even well-known devs like us get this offer. What if other smaller Devs get same offer? I no more wonder why small indie VR devs can't grow in VR industries. Meta store has way beyond power than other store over VR market. because they are more than 50% market shares of VR industry. Almost None of VR indie devs can say no to Meta.
I love VR market, I want VR market grow more. This kind of deal ( 50% + 30%, and the contract can be inherited to DLC ) shouldn’t exist in the world. In fact I never heard this kind of deal in any industry nowdays.
Therefore I have decided to make a voice this time. We are not going to release Legendary Tales on Quest as Boycott. What Meta is doing is not right, they are manipulating the market with their power over market. I think people should know what is happening behind, the world should know about this.
and To the other devs, 50% deal for small amount of money is holy grail with the poison. You might need some money but it won’t help your future. It may quench your thirst now, but you may end up repeating drinking them. Please think twice.
Now, probably Meta hates us. Can we survive in VR market?
When I saw the VR first time, I fell in love with it, and I am sure I tried to make VR market better with whatever I could do.
As everyone know, Legendary Tales itself started on Oculus Quest1. Last years, we always wanted to get into Quest market and did everything to be a member of them. and finally we met them and I realized that it was just one-side love for Meta that was filled with greed.
Meta probably will hate us, and we all know we can not survive in VR market without Meta store. So, we would leave VR market.
The text got too long, and sad. I feel I have to something good things for you.
Our original plan was, IF it is possible, we wanted to release 3 VR games in next 4~5 years.
the first plan is.. We are actually working on a DLC for Legendary Tales. DLC plan is going well, so you can be excited. If I talk about DLC today, the text will be longer, Instead I will leave a concept of boss fight video. It is on development but you will see the idea of what we are working on. Our boss fight is really fun, It’s 5 years of VR development experience aggregation.
Maybe next week or a bit later, I will reveal more information about DLC.
And YES, we were working on porting and making DLC at same time. When I felt something is going wrong with Meta first time, I shifted half of internal resources into DLC plan. Meta knows about this. Prepare plan B is always right
Another thing is, We are working on another VR game slowly. ( as side project since we are working on DLC ) I can’t reveal anything yet, because we are changing this plan since things didn’t go well with Meta. It was originally planned as a VR game, but we will shift this as a Hybrid game. Let’s think It’s our VR market exit plan. But we will do our best to make the best VR experience for the last time. We will surprise you when we are ready.
One last thing is We were making plan for another VR game ( fun multiplay game ) but we scrapped it out. Because you know, same reason above... Instead we maybe work on Non-VR game in the future.
Anyway text got tooooooo long now. It’s time to wrap up.
Don’t misunderstand, I don’t hate Meta. I still love VR and will love. I still believe VR is a future. But I want Meta to know that how broken system they have and I hope they can fix it.
Until they fix things, we will away from their Market. I hope you, our fans, can support us and feel free to share with others what happened. See you soon, Next time I will bring more details about DLC.
Warm Regards, BJ
