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Low End Steam Machine better than PS4/XboxOne specs wise for only $100 more
- Thread starter scytheavatar
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History laughs at the idea of this. Not that everything will stay consistent and that there can't be surprises, but we've always had stronger machines fail to unseat a weaker, cheaper alternative, even when the price advantage was eliminated or inverted (the PS2 was just insane.) If something like this causes a hardcore shift it's likely going to be from another major company, or at least as part of a collective Valve push.
This has been the case for a long time, but it certainly didn't cause an issue for the PS3/Xbox 360 generation.
As has been mentioned on GAF many time before, coding for a custom set of fixed hardware specs enables devs to push a dedicated console well beyond the equivalent spec PC. As this generation continues we'll see the same thing we've seen in every generation: games getting better graphics and performance from the same hardware as developers learn to maximise the hardware.
For reference, just play Uncharted and then Uncharted 2.
As has been mentioned on GAF many time before, coding for a custom set of fixed hardware specs enables devs to push a dedicated console well beyond the equivalent spec PC. As this generation continues we'll see the same thing we've seen in every generation: games getting better graphics and performance from the same hardware as developers learn to maximise the hardware.
For reference, just play Uncharted and then Uncharted 2.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Sony have not confirmed the CPU speed.
archnemesis
Member
I would like to see a Digital Foundry benchmark of games actually running instead of comparing numbers on paper. Does this Steam machine come with a gamepad? Otherwise they should add another $50 to the price tag for comparison's sake.
UnluckyKate
Member
optimisation and os footprints are laughing at you
illmatic22
Banned
Ploid 3.0
Member
There are more benefit to the consoles than more powerful pc parts can give. When devs make games for a console they can push it and the game will run the same for everyone. With that steam machine the owner will always have it in the back of their mind, "if I had only bought the slightly more powerful steam machine, or just a full gaming rig this game would be running better."
Pops Maellard
Member
This. Love PC gaming and all of the incredible things it allows for (crazy cheap games, Steam, framerate and resolution increases, hardware flexibility) but on my midrange setup the shocking lack of optimization for so many AAA titles makes things irritating.
Meanwhile, Killzone: Shadowfall and Infamous: Second Son are absolutely stunning and easily the best looking games I've ever played, and they're running on hardware that is significantly less powerful than my PC.
Phreakuency
Banned
So many people have no idea how consoles and specs work.
This.
Why do people think raw specs matter? PC will never, ever receive the same optimizations as consoles do, because consoles are machines with static hardware, and PC features countless hardware combinations and relies mostly on brute power.
Because of such optimizations, you can have 8 years old hardware (PS3) running games like TLOU or Uncharted 3 (we are talking about a machine with 256+256 MB RAM, minus 70 MB used for OS). You try running that on comparable PC machine and the game probably wouldn't even start.
EDIT: and since when can you overclock PS4's CPU to 2.75 GHz? I thought we already agreed that this is GDDR5 WCK?
Because of such optimizations, you can have 8 years old hardware (PS3) running games like TLOU or Uncharted 3 (we are talking about a machine with 256+256 MB RAM, minus 70 MB used for OS). You try running that on comparable PC machine and the game probably wouldn't even start.
EDIT: and since when can you overclock PS4's CPU to 2.75 GHz? I thought we already agreed that this is GDDR5 WCK?
TerryLee81
Member
Guys, I don't think the RIP consoles comment was serious.
On topic, does the 499$ price point include windows? Guess not, all I read about is Steam OS. Not sure if there's enough compatibility yet for Steam OS only.
On topic, does the 499$ price point include windows? Guess not, all I read about is Steam OS. Not sure if there's enough compatibility yet for Steam OS only.
Palette Swap
Member
It would be interesting to see actual game benchmarks.
Also, how is SteamOS compatibility? I haven't followed that in some time (I'm happy with Big Screen Mode on Windows).
I think having decent Steam boxes in the 500 range is a great effort but the whole article seems a bit disingenuous.
Edit: "RIP consoles" is a shitty way to frame the discussion, it's almost like you want people to start flinging shit at each other.
Also, how is SteamOS compatibility? I haven't followed that in some time (I'm happy with Big Screen Mode on Windows).
I think having decent Steam boxes in the 500 range is a great effort but the whole article seems a bit disingenuous.
Edit: "RIP consoles" is a shitty way to frame the discussion, it's almost like you want people to start flinging shit at each other.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Before people come in here and say lol100morehahahha, this is the first year entry point in the systems. The point of the systems is long term modular ecosystem over many years of consistently improving baselevel entryway. Eg cell phones. So it really doesn't matter that this year's is still 100 more when next year's will be even, the year after that's 100$ cheaper, etc--and the consoles all the while remain constant and unchanging, yet persistently weaker than the original baseline entry level model put out 3 years ago that you can probably score discounted heavily in the now. The key factor here is convincing developers to keep developing their mins around the og baseline model, and considering it's already more powerful than all three new systems valve has already won that game for the next 5-8 years.
nkarafo
Member
It amazes me that consoles are now "beating" PCs in the bloated OS department. My Windows 7 setup only takes up about 1.1 GB after it loads, with around 50 processes. And console OS takes up 3 GB?
Also, whats the deal with the weak CPUs the new consoles use? Sub 2Ghz tablet CPUs? Are you telling me that the current generation machines actually have weaker CPUs than the PS3's Cell?
Seriously, what is wrong with consoles these days?
Also, whats the deal with the weak CPUs the new consoles use? Sub 2Ghz tablet CPUs? Are you telling me that the current generation machines actually have weaker CPUs than the PS3's Cell?
Seriously, what is wrong with consoles these days?
Ploid 3.0
Member
I saw footage of Infamous First Light yesterday for the first time, that game looks amazing and I've been gaming solely on PC for a few years now. That's another thing, console first party stuff by dev teams like Naughty Dog and the like.
People wondered what Uncharted games and TLoU would look like if ND made it for PC and went all out, God of War 3, Gran Turismo, etc etc. Console has it's place where devs take more risk. Valve could be making games like Uncharted and TLoU, Blizzard too, but they always have a wide range of hardware in mind when they make their games.
The Sentinel
Neo Member
Nope, this machine will not even lasts till next year.
The magic about consoles is that every company optimize their games specifically for them, in the other hand not a single developer is going to waste his time trying to optimize his games for specific hardware specs on a machine that is not even popular.
Which bit is false?
Damigos
Member
It is very very very wrong to compare specs between console and PC. Just keep in mind how fast it the CPU in PS4 (not at all) and what graphics card it uses (7700 if i remember correctly - not fast at all). And then see the graphics results of Killzone and Infamous and Uncharted 4..
Awesome example I just thought of incoming!
It's like trying to compare the 100 BHP of a GO-Kart and the 100 BHP of an ordinary car.
The car (PC) in order to be as fast as the kart (console) needs to have 300 BHP because of its weight and size, but it can do a lot more (carry 5 people for example). So the PC of course can be as fast as the console, and a lot faster too. But it costs a lot more to make it that fast.
It's like trying to compare the 100 BHP of a GO-Kart and the 100 BHP of an ordinary car.
The car (PC) in order to be as fast as the kart (console) needs to have 300 BHP because of its weight and size, but it can do a lot more (carry 5 people for example). So the PC of course can be as fast as the console, and a lot faster too. But it costs a lot more to make it that fast.
CouchMaster
Member
Does it have a blu-ray drive?
excuse me, with DX 13 and Mantle, PC games are reaching the same level of optimization that consoles get. no longer will console warriors be able to hind that.
for example look at this
a $3000 PC can generate a life like image
now lets look at what a $399 playstation 4 can do
trust me, a little bit more and you'll get a lot more for you money.
for example look at this
a $3000 PC can generate a life like image
the first time i saw this picture i thought i was looking into a living mirror. pyscho is so unbelivable, the wrinkles in his skin, the pain in his eye. you know he is a man who has truly suffered. each tree in the background, 100 miles away, is individually rendered with painstaking detail, and the sky scrapers and beautifully created, with real time rusting applied.
now lets look at what a $399 playstation 4 can do
firstly the image quality is so poor i can hardly see what im looking at. the trees are low quality jpegs with a little bit of depth of field to make them more real. drakes character is so poorly rendered, i bet his face only has 400 polgyons in it at least. and the lighting is so bad everybody nows when its dark you are unable to see anything secondly the enviroment is so tiny, what am i supposed to do? look at crabs on the sand?
trust me, a little bit more and you'll get a lot more for you money.
Better question is, what is wrong with your post, son?
Windows x64 currently takes 3.5 GB with Outlook and Chrome open.
CPUs are perfectly fine since nobody complained about them being the bottlenecks.
Also, have you ever heard about GPGPU? You know, that little function where you can offload CPU functions to GPU?
Why don't you go and read a few thousand pages of next gen hardware threads and then come back a bit more informed.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I haven't looked into it but I'd be surprised if any dedicated steam machine wasted money on a optical drive. Steam being the digital service that it is.
I don't see Steam Machines gaining a lot of ground and/or traction. They're PC's. Whatever box they pack them in and whatever OS they come installed with, they still have all the advantages and disadvantages of PC's.
Now then, and seeing as this new generation got off to a rolling start, would you kindly quit pronnouncing consoles dead?
Now then, and seeing as this new generation got off to a rolling start, would you kindly quit pronnouncing consoles dead?
What a pile of shit Those specs will not last this whole gen and the usual reason for PC gaming because that's what it is, is a PC is to go beyond what consoles can do. So your gonna pay 100 more for something that I very much doubt will be on par with the consoles especially as the gen goes on and more advanced graphics features are being used. Its kinda OK now true but that shit cpu and the below average card is gonna end up need chaning which means a whole new mobo maybe and so on. Also who would buy these when you may aswell add more cash and get a proper desktop that will comfortably out perform the consoles and last longer.
Pops Maellard
Member
Definitely. Every time I'm blown away by something on my PS4 like P.T, Killzone or Infamous, I can't help but wonder how absolutely crazy AAA games would look if developers were pushing the bleeding edge of high end PC hardware.
It's not really false as much as it is dishonest, because it ignores the fact that the valley between the two games was purely due to boneheaded hardware design decisions made by sony that made development on the ps3 a total fucking nightmare until developers learned how to work around all the insane bullshit krazy ken spun into the hardware. With the ps4 and xbone this won't really happen because both manufacturers learned from the thousands of devs and pubs that died during the 7th gen that making development as easy as possible is actually a really fucking awesome thing for everyone, and basically just use generic pc hardware tweaked a bit for their configurations.
That is pretty much the issue along with the OS's capability. However, they are going to have to start somewhere to get the ball rolling, otherwise it will just continue to be a chicken and egg scenario. All things considered, its pretty spectacular that they have so much support as it is. The real test will be how it fares following release and if that can really show results for devs, strong growth of user over time (even though it will inevitably be tiny to begin with) and increase support. Machine pricing probably won't get interesting for a few years yet till all that changes along with component pricing coming down
Edit: pretty sure op's "Rip consoles?" comment was a joke, but clearly he/she knows their audience - knee jerk reactions to the phrase will form the brunt of the thread, as usual
SkeptiMism
Member
A PC isn't just a gaming machine (yes, consoles aren't either nowadays, but their functionality is still severely limited as they're closed ecosystems), but it's a multi functional open computing system that can do gaming. Thus a PC should generally be expected to cost a bit more. Most people have laptops or even cheap desktops that they use for their basic computing needs (this is changing more and more though as tablets are getting more use in that regard, but PC still has a strong place too), so often it's more like putting in some more money after being able to fulfill that in order to be able to also play games that take more power.
That said, the RIP comment of OP was most likely a joke. I hope so at least. Either way it shouldn't have been there.
Magic Mushroom
Member
I can't play Bloodborne on it, so no.
nkarafo
Member
And why, son, would i need outlook and chrome opened when i play games?
Also, you might need to clean up your computer, son, disable all those unneeded services and start up programs you have. My 64x setup takes up 1.6 GB with a bunch of Firefox tabs open (and it has a few memory hungry plugins as well).
So, sonny, go read some guides on how to keep your OS clean, stop clicking on everything you see and when installing free software, make sure you uncheck the extra stuff they usually come with, like tool bars and other shit and then come back a bit more informed.
CouchMaster
Member
I'm just asking because most of these builds completely ignore the blu ray drives that most console owners use as movie player. The PS3 was an ultimate blu ray player for quite some time.
Seriously...
You can't compare CPUs based on their clock, especially when they're of way different architecture. Remember the days when Athlon 64 clocked at 2GHz destroyed Pentium 4 clocked way higher than AMD's CPU? And they were of the same architecture.
Jaguar in PS4 is better than Cell in PS3.
They are budget machines for 399/499 dollars. Don't expect them to be on par with gaming PCs.
Anyway, I fear 2GBs on the GPU may limit this SteamMachine later in console life cycle. It's too small.
Only if they launch with Half Life 3 as an exclusive.
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