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[Takao]

A lot of people don't seem to understand how Dragon Quest works.

I'm very much aware that they always show up late in a generation. I just don't really see Square Enix launching it on a platform if they're very much aware will be completely irrelevant in months, and was tip toeing on relevancy years prior.

 

[cvxfreak]

Not like this would matter as much as JPN sales do, but I wonder which Basara 3 version will sell better in the West.

Speaking of the West, we see this kind of disparity all the time, with the Madden series for example.

 

[Busaiku]

I think Basara 3 actually has a chance to do well on Wii in the West (or at least the US).
Not these numbers of course, but relatively.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Not like this would matter as much as JPN sales do, but I wonder which Basara 3 version will sell better in the West.

Speaking of the West, we see this kind of disparity all the time, with the Madden series for example.

The PS3 version will.

Basically, the ecosystem for these types of games is non-existant on the Wii now. The only thing that will sell on the Wii is likely Nintendo's own games, and casual type games.

And maybe Epic Mickey, maybe.

 

[cvxfreak]

The PS3 version will.

Basically, the ecosystem for these types of games is non-existant on the Wii now. The only thing that will sell on the Wii is likely Nintendo's own games, and casual type games.

And maybe Epic Mickey, maybe.

Sengoku Basara isn't exactly a series I would call mainstream in the U.S. Even the Musou games are relatively niche there.

 

[Busaiku]

The PS3 version will.

Basically, the ecosystem for these types of games is non-existant on the Wii now. The only thing that will sell on the Wii is likely Nintendo's own games, and casual type games.

And maybe Epic Mickey, maybe.

Games still tend to sell well on Wii in the US.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

I'm very much aware that they always show up late in a generation. I just don't really see Square Enix launching it on a platform if they're very much aware will be completely irrelevant in months, and was tip toeing on relevancy years prior.

Ever heard of Dragon Quest VII?

 

[expy]

GO MODNATION!

 

[Vic]

Nintendo is mostly responsible for the 3rd-party situation on the Wii as they've failed to convince the third parties that the Wii was a viable platform for them to push their content into.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Nintendo is mostly responsible for the 3rd-party situation on the Wii as they've failed to convince the third parties that the Wii was a viable platform for them to push their content into.

The success of Resident Evil 4 Wii and the subsequent franchise fiasco would seem to disprove this.

 

[duckroll]

Nintendo is mostly responsible for the 3rd-party situation on the Wii as they've failed to convince the third parties that the Wii was a viable platform for them to push their content into.

No, you're wrong. Nintendo can do no wrong. Third parties were supposed to put all their franchises on the Wii to FORCE gamers to go on the Wii! :lol

 

[EDarkness]

I'm not sure any of what you said even matters. Why should third parties care specifically about selling on any one console? If they can only make Wii games, and have failed to build on audience, sure it's a problem to them. But Capcom on the other hand has found huge success for titles which don't perform well on the Wii, on other platforms.

I can't see any reasonable logic in saying that Sengoku Basara 3 is in any way a "mistake" at all. Capcom realized early on that making the game a Wii exclusive would be the real mistake, so they developed two versions and released it into the market. It has exploded beyond all expectations. How is this a mistake for Capcom?

The way I look at it is that they could have eeked more out of the Wii version so there wouldn't have been such a huge difference between the two if they and others would have dealt with the situation better. The people who really lose in this situation are Wii only owners. I guess one more reason to hope for a one console future. It'll be much easier on the pocketbook.

No, you're wrong. Nintendo can do no wrong. Third parties were supposed to put all their franchises on the Wii to FORCE gamers to go on the Wii! :lol

How did you get that out of his comment?

 

[duckroll]

The success of Resident Evil 4 Wii and the subsequent franchise fiasco would seem to disprove this.

What franchise fiasco?

 

[VerTiGo]

Nintendo is mostly responsible for the 3rd-party situation on the Wii as they've failed to convince the third parties that the Wii was a viable platform for them to push their content into.

Nintendo isn't meant to create the market for each and every genre on the platform. Third parties should do what they can to convince the Wii owner that their game is right for them. However, most third party success stories on the platform are usually games that are directly influenced by Nintendo's own success stories on the platform. Most have dropped the ball, but as the market continues to grow and develop for the casual gamer on home consoles, be it the Wii, Move or Natal. No one should be worried about Epic Mickey's sales performance on the Wii by the way.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

No, you're wrong. Nintendo can do no wrong. Third parties were supposed to put all their franchises on the Wii to FORCE gamers to go on the Wii! :lol

You're acting kind of weird tonight so I don't know how interested you are in discussion, but surely you concede that massive success of a franchise release should prove that a market exists for that franchise?

What franchise fiasco?

Two lame spinoffs and nothing more while the genre title was moved to the HD consoles.

:lol I think people need to have a reality check and compare the sales of Resident Evil 4 Wii and Resident Evil 5.

Compare a port with a new release?

If anything, Capcom was smart enough to milk an old game by successfully repackaging it for the Wii. It's no fiasco - it's kind of genius actually.

Darkside Chronicles bombed because the fans had moved on when they weren't provided more games of the type that RE4Wii promised. They passed up money on the table.

 

[Grimmy]

What franchise fiasco?

:lol I think people need to have a reality check and compare the sales of Resident Evil 4 Wii and Resident Evil 5.

If anything, Capcom was smart enough to milk an old game by successfully repackaging it for the Wii. It's no fiasco - it's kind of genius actually.

 

[Beth Cyra]

:lol I think people need to have a reality check and compare the sales of Resident Evil 4 Wii and Resident Evil 5.

If anything, Capcom was smart enough to milk an old game by successfully repackaging it for the Wii. It's no fiasco - it's kind of genius actually.

I am fairly sure not a single person is ever talking about RE 4 and in fact agree with what you just said. The only time the Fiasco stuff comes up is Re UC and DSC. Though I think they where crap I don't know if you can really said they where as bad as people made them out to be.

 

[duckroll]

You're acting kind of weird tonight so I don't know how interested you are in discussion, but surely you concede that massive success of a franchise release should prove that a market exists for that franchise?

135k is massive? Probably for the 3rd re-release of an existing game, sure, but it doesn't prove much. Umbrella Chronicles sold 273k which is pretty much double that. Which is why it got a sequel.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

135k is massive? Probably for the 3rd re-release of an existing game, sure, but it doesn't prove much. Umbrella Chronicles sold 273k which is pretty much double that. Which is why it got a sequel.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

The idea that gamers were never on the Wii and your insistence that developers would have had to force them onto it is simply not supported by the facts. They were there--they simply were not fed, got hungry, and moved on.

 

[Fantastical]

:lol I think people need to have a reality check and compare the sales of Resident Evil 4 Wii and Resident Evil 5.

If anything, Capcom was smart enough to milk an old game by successfully repackaging it for the Wii. It's no fiasco - it's kind of genius actually.

That's not what he's talking about. He's talking about Capcom porting RE4 Wii over "testing" the market. Capcom sees HUGE sales numbers for a port years after the original, and then brings light gun games to the market. Umbrella Chronicles sold pretty well, but I'm pretty sure Darkside Chronicles sold not so well.

At least I think that's what he's talking about.

 

[distantmantra]

Not like this would matter as much as JPN sales do, but I wonder which Basara 3 version will sell better in the West.

Speaking of the West, we see this kind of disparity all the time, with the Madden series for example.

I have a feeling it will sell poorly on both systems, but do better on the PS3.

 

[Pureauthor]

:lol I think people need to have a reality check and compare the sales of Resident Evil 4 Wii and Resident Evil 5.

I'm not how comparing the sales of a game that had been ported twice in as many years against a new entry on two different platforms would give us much meaningful info.

Nor would that comparison have anything to do with the initial statement that there was indeed a base on the Wii who obviously wanted RE4 type games.

 

[Brofist]

The PS3 version will.

Basically, the ecosystem for these types of games is non-existant on the Wii now. The only thing that will sell on the Wii is likely Nintendo's own games, and casual type games.

And maybe Epic Mickey, maybe.

It would be easier to just admit that the fanbase wasn't there to begin with, and probably couldn't have been forced in like you seem to think.

The 360 was the JRPG machine for the first 2-3 years of this generation. By your rationale the userbase for that genre should have stayed there since that's where the "ecosystem" was at, but they ended up jumping ship and moving over to the PS3.

 

[Boney]

No, you're wrong. Nintendo can do no wrong. Third parties were supposed to put all their franchises on the Wii to FORCE gamers to go on the Wii! :lol

Now this is being a tad silly.. it's not exactly what Eteric Rice meant, and this shouldn't help in creating more discussion.

As I see it, we're discussing the hypothetical scenario (I know, I know..) that Wii, or a Nintendo console for that matter can become a viable means for third parties to conduct business. viciouskillersquirrel said it best that 2 years ago, they were stuck between a rock and a hard place neither the Wii nor the PS3 were doing all that great software numbers (although PS3 was almost always in the lead).

I mean, the PS3 resurgance game because there was nothing satisfying that neccesity. But as you said, it was impossible for third parties to shift focus from PS3 to Wii before and a bit after launch, because of the amount of money and projects already invested and the inability of large companies to react inmediatly.

It was a really sticky situation, in which Nintendo should've pushed them into creating more content for their platform

 

[Pureauthor]

The 360 was the JRPG machine for the first 2-3 years of this generation.

I'm pretty sure that was (and is) the DS, actually.

 

[Boney]

I'm pretty sure that was (and is) the DS, actually.

PSP

 

[Brofist]

I'm pretty sure that was (and is) the DS, actually.

I meant of the home consoles, since that's what the debate is about.

 

[duckroll]

Nintendo isn't meant to create the market for each and every genre on the platform. Third parties should do what they can to convince the Wii owner that their game is right for them. However, most third party success stories on the platform are usually games that are directly influenced by Nintendo's own success stories on the platform. Most have dropped the ball, but as the market continues to grow and develop for the casual gamer on home consoles, be it the Wii, Move or Natal. No one should be worried about Epic Mickey's sales performance on the Wii by the way.

So what do we have to say about Nintendo's efforts to publish certain core games on the Wii? For example, we have Xenoblade which was recently released. It's a huge effort from the developer (owned by Nintendo), with a development span of about 3 years. It is a huge RPG, with massive scale and tons of content. The game also has great reviews and word of mouth.

Yet it sells less than half of what White Knight Chronicles achieved on the PS3, despite the horrible reviews that got. Both are first party titles. Both are RPGs. Both are developed by RPG developers which is known by the core target audience.

Clearly this shows a problem with the Wii base being receptive to a first party title, and it also shows that Nintendo is indeed interested in getting an audience on their system for this genre, but has basically failed. Does the blame then lie with third parties alone? Should Nintendo be blaming third parties for not helping to build a stronger base for RPGs?

Obviously if the platform holder is interested in the genre, and they try to release a major effort on their platform, when it under-performs it is also the blame of the first party - they have failed to attract that audience to their system.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

If you're in a Media Create thread and you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you learn to:
a) not use worldwide shipment numbers
b) discuss Japanese sales

 

[Vic]

The success of Resident Evil 4 Wii and the subsequent franchise fiasco would seem to disprove this.

Ever wonder why we're only seeing these kind of low-risk output from the third parties on the Wii? The platform wasn't fully proven from Day 1 to the third parties as worthy to be invested into. Nintendo is quite obvious to this fact when you look at their efforts to cater the third parties with the 3DS.

 

[Grimmy]

I'm not how comparing the sales of a game that had been ported twice in as many years against a new entry on two different platforms would give us much meaningful info.

Nor would that comparison have anything to do with the initial statement that there was indeed a base on the Wii who obviously wanted RE4 type games.

It doesn't. But people seem to sincere believe that Capcom released RE4 as a "test" for more hardcore games. I saw it as merely a massively successful cash-in, nothing more. And from that angle Capcom was very successful. RE5 went on to becoming the series' best-selling entry. They released two low-cost titles to the Wii - one did well, one flopped. But surely the cost of making that flop wasn't all that massive in the first place. So overall the RE strategy has been a win, since Capcom did what they needed to do - make money.

 

[gerg]

Ah, we haven't seen a good Wii third-party software sales discussion in a long time, and now we have two threads in which to discuss it at once!

 

[Pureauthor]

I meant of the home consoles, since that's what the debate is about.

Yeah, but insofar as Japan is concerned, there's no real distinction anymore, so limiting it to home consoles is cutting important sections of the market out for no good reason.

 

[Takao]

Ever heard of Dragon Quest VII?

I wouldn't really compare the PSone and Wii. Especially given, that if I think DQX will switch platforms, it would switch to another current platform, or the 3DS. If Enix were to switch VII from the PSone it wouldn't have been the PSone's rivals (as they had no longer been relevant for years prior...).

However, given the scope of the franchise, and its ambition to always release on the platform with the most units out there, it should be a Wii release. I just feel new console hardware from Nintendo would hurt it.

 

[Vic]

Nintendo isn't meant to create the market for each and every genre on the platform. Third parties should do what they can to convince the Wii owner that their game is right for them. However, most third party success stories on the platform are usually games that are directly influenced by Nintendo's own success stories on the platform.

But what's the point of building an audience on the Wii when there's three different platforms in the market that will already do the job just fine?

 

[Pureauthor]

It doesn't. But people seem to sincere believe that Capcom released RE4 as a "test" for more hardcore games. I saw it as merely a massively successful cash-in, nothing more. And from that angle Capcom was very successful. RE5 went on to becoming the series' best-selling entry. They released two low-cost titles to the Wii - one did well, one flopped. But surely the cost of making that flop wasn't all that massive in the first place. So overall the RE strategy has been a win, since Capcom did what they needed to do - make money.

I'm pretty certain Capcom themselves used the word 'test' to that effect concerning the Wii audience, which is where people get pissed off in the first place.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

If you're in a Media Create thread and you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you learn to:
a) not use worldwide shipment numbers
b) discuss Japanese sales

The specific topic we were talking about was third party support on the Wii. I don't know how you expect to have a legitimate discussion about that without including worldwide sales. Are you in a bad mood tonight or something?

I wouldn't really compare the PSone and Wii. Especially given, that if I think DQX will switch platforms, it would switch to another current platform, or the 3DS.

It was just reconfirmed for Wii a few weeks ago so that's pretty much not going to happen.

 

[Grimmy]

I'm pretty certain Capcom themselves used the word 'test' to that effect concerning the Wii audience, which is where people get pissed off in the first place.

:lol And you believed them? They are a corporation - they are here to make money. And that they did. So the strategy, at least for RE series, was sound.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Wow. Amazing numbers for Basara 3 and Kamen Rider.

Actually, is this the best a Kamen Rider game has ever sold on it's first week?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

That's not what he's talking about. He's talking about Capcom porting RE4 Wii over "testing" the market. Capcom sees HUGE sales numbers for a port years after the original, and then brings light gun games to the market. Umbrella Chronicles sold pretty well, but I'm pretty sure Darkside Chronicles sold not so well.

At least I think that's what he's talking about.

That's pretty much the idea.

RE4 Wii attracted RE fans and probably made RE fans out a chunk of the people who bought the Wii at launch and they ate up UC because they wanted more. After that, though, they kept getting ports and UC was followed up by another light gun game. Since this was not the genre that brought them into the series in the first place, RE fans on the Wii lost interest and moved on.

There's nothing difficult or slanted about this. Genre starvation happens on other consoles too.

 

[duckroll]

The specific topic we were talking about was third party support on the Wii. I don't know how you expect to have a legitimate discussion about that without including worldwide sales.

We are discussing Japanese support on a platform in Japan. If third party games on the Wii sold really well in Japan, there would be more support for it in Japan. I don't see how hard it is to understand.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

We are discussing Japanese support on a platform in Japan. If third party games on the Wii sold really well in Japan, there would be more support for it in Japan. I don't see how hard it is to understand.

That would make perfect sense if multinational corporations made investment decisions based on revenue from one region alone.

 

[duckroll]

That would make perfect sense if corporations made fiscal investments based on revenue from one region alone.

Sengoku Basara 2 wasn't even released outside of Japan.

 

[Boney]

That's pretty much the idea.

RE4 Wii attracted RE fans and probably made RE fans out a chunk of the people who bought the Wii at launch and they ate up UC because they wanted more. After that, though, they kept getting ports and UC was followed up by another light gun game. Since this was not the genre that brought them into the series in the first place, RE fans on the Wii lost interest and moved on.

There's nothing difficult or slanted about this. Genre starvation happens on other consoles too.

Maybe, but RE5 was still announced for PS3 years ago. Fans were already expecting the flagship title in the series, and whatever followed to be there. RE4 and UC were like nice diversions.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Sengoku Basara 2 wasn't even released outside of Japan.

And here I thought we were talking about Resident Evil.

 

[Pureauthor]

:lol And you believed them? They are a corporation - they are here to make money. And that they did. So the strategy, at least for RE series, was sound.

But then that's where the question comes up - if it was successful, why not seek to extend that success?

And for the record, many people didn't believe them - they just didn't care for Capcom treating them like idiots.

That would make perfect sense if multinational corporations made investment decisions based on revenue from one region alone.

To be fair, a lot of them do. Of course, Capcom isn't included in that number.

 

[duckroll]

And here I thought we were talking about Resident Evil.

In Media Create threads, we discuss the Japanese market. Hence we use Japanese sales. If we discuss Resident Evil, it would be the franchise's performance in Japan. I don't see how Resident Evil 4 shipping 1 million units on the Wii worldwide, changes the fact that it sold 135k in Japan.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Meh. Nintendo had to pick and choose which directions that they were pushing their system as they don't have the unlimited resources that many believe that they have. From a financial success standpoint they chose very well. Unfortunately the 3rd parties really didn't pick up the slack.

It's sad that there isn't much of a market for RPGs on the Wii, and one can try to blame one party or the other, but in the end it just is what it is.

The Wii's market was formed in the first year of it's existence, and that year consisted almost entirely of Nintendo pushing games that they knew weren't going to come from 3rd parties and 3rd party leaders talking about the exiting opportunity while their individual developers openly hated the system because it couldn't produce sparks in HD resolutions. In the end, little worthwhile came from 3rd parties.

And so the software market for the Wii is what it is.

 

[Takao]

And here I thought we were talking about Resident Evil.

Dude, I realize it's almost 3 in the morning, but dude...

 

[Celine]

:lol And you believed them? They are a corporation - they are here to make money. And that they did. So the strategy, at least for RE series, was sound.

I think people is talking about the sales collapse between the first on rail spin off and the sequel.

The 360 was the JRPG machine for the first 2-3 years of this generation. By your rationale the userbase for that genre should have stayed there since that's where the "ecosystem" was at, but they ended up jumping ship and moving over to the PS3.

I fail to see how.
In the timeframe you gave the biggest JRPG released on 360 was a Tales Of at the end of the third year.
Before that it was mostly about two brand new Mistwalker games.
For a system that in Japan hardly broke the 1 million barrier at the end of 2008.

PS3 , when it was unveiled at E3 in 2006 ( ? ) one of the first thing they showed was target renders and logos about two FF13 said to be exclusive.
But even now I wouldn't say PS3 is JRPG heavy ( althought ToV did good ).
It's mostly DS(3DS ? ) and PSP.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

In Media Create threads, we discuss the Japanese market. Hence we use Japanese sales. If we discuss Resident Evil, it would be the franchise's performance in Japan. I don't see how Resident Evil 4 shipping 1 million units on the Wii worldwide, changes the fact that it sold 135k in Japan.

Please scroll back and reexamine the evolution of the discussion that was taking place. We began with acknowledgment of the sorry state of third party development, then theorizing all around about the cause. Several ideas were presented and I was not the first to bring up Capcom and Resident Evil as evidence in that discussion.

It's not possible to have informed debate on that matter without including worldwide sales. We often see Japanese sales discussed as part of ancillary debate in NPD threads.