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[AniHawk]

In seriousness, it is true that our comparisons are all relative, and we often lose sight of the larger picture (as AniHawk has deliberately done here).

Discussions of Vita or Wii U showing "signs of life" are almost entirely couched in a comparatively depressed market, where no consoles are doing particularly well. Yes, in comparison to the PS4 and Xbox One, the Wii U is doing okay-ish. Still has the largest sales overall, but really, all of them are doing poorly. Similary, the Vita would be considered a dead system last generation. Lastly, and most importantly, we all essentially ignore the mobile elephant in the room as much as possible, unless someone like me annoying brings up again how rapidly that market is gaining momentum.

I'm not saying that those other frames of reference are necessarily the correct one, but I'm not sure our standard frame of reference is the right one, either.

i feel like by the end of march, the ps4 should be on a sort of upswing and be the one system that overtakes last year's numbers. but it'll be around the 20k-30k range, replacing the vita, while the 3ds may just stick around slightly above that (seriously i thought the wheels would have completely come off in the new year but it's looking pretty similar to last year's numbers so far).

in the next two years the japanese market will probably be a waning 3ds, a weak ps4, and a new nintendo platform. no vita successor, essentially no wii u (or no traditional nintendo console). i half-wonder when people may stop bothering collecting sales data.

 

[duckroll]

Do you know what were the expectations of EO fans in regards to EOMD, and the expectations of people who bought EOMD, if they were going for a MD game or a game from EO IP? If you know, please, do share what you know with us.

Sure, as a fan of EO who has bought several entries in the series, I can say that my expectation of EOMD is a MD game with a EO theme. I'm buying it because I like MD games, but haven't played one in a long time. The EO theme definitely helps, because I find Shiren a bit boring looking, and I don't care for Pokemon at all. I enjoyed the Chocobo Dungeon games back in the day, and Torneko as well. It is very clear from everything I have seen in the promotional material and the announcement of the game that will be more of a MD game than a EO game at the base, because it is developed by Spike Chunsoft with a MD director leading the development team. I like the classes, artwork, and monster design in EO, but I'm pretty burnt out of the regular entries of the game, so this mash up is right up my alley.

Is that good enough for you?

 

[Oregano]

Lol, Dragon Quest Heroes will sell five or six times the last mainline Musou game, so I think we can expect Samurai Warriors 5, or 4-3, or 4-2 or whatever to break the 1 million mark easily because we had to expect numbers like Samurai Warriors for Dragon Quest Heroes.

There are differences between each of the spin-offs, and spin-offs can sell close to traditional games from the franchise (like Persona, Hyperdimension Neptunia, Danganronpa), much less or even more, like Senran Kagura.

If you don't know what people who bought EOMD expected, you can't make assumptions like you did. The fact that most people here were talking about EOMD as EO despite being a spin-off, and DQH as a Musou that should sell in line with other Musou crossovers from famous franchises already shows how your comparison was silly.

...and EOMD sold much better than Shiren 5 which was the last mainline Mystery Dungeon game. It's a pretty solid comparison: Both are games crossing two franchises where the crossover sells more than the less popular franchise but less than the more popular franchise.

 

[Palette Swap]

does anyone actually say this in Media Create threads any more

I don't think so. Its best claim to fame right now is that it has sold more YTD than PS3. That's not much to write home about.
It's true though that we're discussing what amounts to statistical noise and it's a sign home consoles have become a niche market in Japan. There are spikes every now and then but at least on PS3 and WiiU, it is apparent that the people who buy games are people who already own these consoles.

 

[monpiece]

In seriousness, it is true that our comparisons are all relative, and we often lose sight of the larger picture (as AniHawk has deliberately done here).

Discussions of Vita or Wii U showing "signs of life" are almost entirely couched in a comparatively depressed market, where no consoles are doing particularly well. Yes, in comparison to the PS4 and Xbox One, the Wii U is doing okay-ish. Still has the largest sales overall, but really, all of them are doing poorly. Similary, the Vita would be considered a dead system last generation. Lastly, and most importantly, we all essentially ignore the mobile elephant in the room as much as possible, unless someone like me annoying brings up again how rapidly that market is gaining momentum.

I'm not saying that those other frames of reference are necessarily the correct one, but I'm not sure our standard frame of reference is the right one, either.

Most people here assume that Wii U and Vita are doomed not because the current numbers, but because they know the chances of changing the future outlook are negligible, considering the many aspects (mobile growth and traditional market decline; Nintendo already launched its main games / Sony making it clear they are not investing on Vita; third parties unwilling to make big and risky bets, the systems have already been bought by most of their target audience).

Usually the people who mention the temporary raises and drops are those trying to troll other users / system fans.

 

[monpiece]

Sure, as a fan of EO who has bought several entries in the series, I can say that my expectation of EOMD is a MD game with a EO theme. I'm buying it because I like MD games, but haven't played one in a long time. The EO theme definitely helps, because I find Shiren a bit boring looking, and I don't care for Pokemon at all. I enjoyed the Chocobo Dungeon games back in the day, and Torneko as well. It is very clear from everything I have seen in the promotional material and the announcement of the game that will be more of a MD game than a EO game at the base, because it is developed by Spike Chunsoft with a MD director leading the development team. I like the classes, artwork, and monster design in EO, but I'm pretty burnt out of the regular entries of the game, so this mash up is right up my alley.

Is that good enough for you?

It is fine, but not enough. I still need the opinion of the 65,000 or 70,000 people who bought EOMD to know if they bought more because of MD aspects or EO aspects.

 

[duckroll]

It is fine, but not enough. I still need the opinion of the 65,000 or 70,000 people who bought EOMD to know if they bought more because of MD aspects or EO aspects.

Okay now you're just trolling. If you have no interest in having serious discussion in this thread, I suggest you stop posting in it.

 

[Oregano]

It is fine, but not enough. I still need the opinion of the 65,000 or 70,000 people who bought EOMD to know if they bought more because of MD aspects or EO aspects.

Wait do you think the people buying DQ Heroes are buying it because it's a Musou game?

 

[Busaiku]

Wait do you think the people buying DQ Heroes are buying it because it's a Musou game?

ZhugeEX probably is!

 

[Nirolak]

I would guess that the number of people who bought Dynasty Warriors 8 are the number of people who bought DQH because it was a Musou game (or at least had the Musou part as a very major factor), with the rest being due to the IP.

 

[duckroll]

I would guess that the number of people who bought Dynasty Warriors 8 are the number of people who bought DQH because it was a Musou game (or at least had the Musou part as a very major factor), with the rest being due to the IP.

Even that might not be entirely accurate. We shouldn't assume that everyone who buys Dynasty Warriors only cares about the musou gameplay part. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms hook is not insignificant, just like some people will prefer the Japanese historical hook of Samurai Warriors. Some of them might actually be less interested because it is just DQ.

In the end the important point is that most people buying one of these games would generally at least have an interest in the base gameplay, and beyond that their attraction would be to the way it is themed and implemented. So I think it is improbable that someone will buy DQH expecting it to play like DQVIII, or to buy EOMD expecting it to play like EO4, unless they are VERY ill informed and have more money than sense. But at the same time, a large part of the draw to these mash ups are also the franchise theme.

 

[monpiece]

Okay now you're just trolling. If you have no interest in having serious discussion in this thread, I suggest you stop posting in it.

I am not trolling. I had asked a valid question: if people who bought EOMD took more into account that it was a EO-related game or a MD-like gaming. You answered with your own opinion, that doesn't really answer my question .

If we can't possibly know the main reason why people bought EOMD, we can't even say the game sold better than the expected (because it was a spin-off) or according to expectations (because it was a EO game sold mostly to EO fans). It is all guesses and my original question, which was if EOMD really sold over the expectations or the expectations should be like other EO titles will have to remain unanswered because we just don't know and we can choose any of the both views.

 

[Nirolak]

Even that might not be entirely accurate. We shouldn't assume that everyone who buys Dynasty Warriors only cares about the musou gameplay part. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms hook is not insignificant, just like some people will prefer the Japanese historical hook of Samurai Warriors. Some of them might actually be less interested because it is just DQ.

In the end the important point is that most people buying one of these games would generally at least have an interest in the base gameplay, and beyond that their attraction would be to the way it is themed and implemented. So I think it is improbable that someone will buy DQH expecting it to play like DQVIII, or to buy EOMD expecting it to play like EO4, unless they are VERY ill informed and have more money than sense. But at the same time, a large part of the draw to these mash ups are also the franchise theme.

Yeah, that's fair.

It reminds me of the Halo Wars argument. I'm sure there are a couple of people who bought the game thinking it was an FPS, but they're assuredly incredibly minimal compared to the people who were either interested in an RTS on console and/or a Halo themed RTS spin-off.

There were also probably some people who really liked Halo and were curious about RTS games, and Halo helped push them over the edge.

Or, to use a more modern example, no one downloaded Hearthstone expecting an RTS or an MMO, but were assuredly a mix of Warcraft fans, card game fans, and people who liked both, along with the card-game curious that felt this looked easy enough to get into with sufficiently high production values.

 

[duckroll]

I am not trolling. I had asked a valid question: if people who bought EOMD took more into account that it was a EO-related game or a MD-like gaming. You answered with your own opinion, that doesn't really answer my question .

If we can't possibly know the main reason why people bought EOMD, we can't even say the game sold better than the expected (because it was a spin-off) or according to expectations (because it was a EO game sold mostly to EO fans). It is all guesses and my original question, which was if EOMD really sold over the expectations or the expectations should be like other EO titles will have to remain unanswered because we just don't know and we can choose any of the both views.

Dude... what the fuck are you talking about. What expectations are YOU talking about. When people say the game sold better than expected, they're saying that it sold better than they expected. This is a sales thread. It is an ongoing exchange of views. We've talked about the impending release of the game and the general expectation here was that it wasn't going to do that hot because MD games have been in severe decline, and Untold 2 sold below the normal expectations of EO. So on both fronts it looked like a harder than usual sell. What you're arguing about... nobody knows.

 

[monpiece]

Dude... what the fuck are you talking about. What expectations are YOU talking about. When people say the game sold better than expected, they're saying that it sold better than they expected. This is a sales thread. It is an ongoing exchange of views. We've talked about the impending release of the game and the general expectation here was that it wasn't going to do that hot because MD games have been in severe decline, and Untold 2 sold below the normal expectations of EO. So on both fronts it looked like a harder than usual sell. What you're arguing about... nobody knows.

What I asked was if it was right to expect EOMD to sell considerably less than other EO entries. The answer I have got was that it was a spin-off, so yes. Then I asked if just the fact of being a spin-off was enough, since there are cases where spin-offs sell like mainline titles, despite the change in some core mechanics, and what I got was sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

I asked about the expectations because I was curious why everybody was saying it did better than expected when I felt that being a spin-off wouldn't make much difference to strongly consolidated fanbases (like Persona or Neptunia that I mentioned). But if it is just personal opinions, I won't even ask anymore. And I also hope it is a two-way practice.

 

[Mory Dunz]

It is fine, but not enough. I still need the opinion of the 65,000 or 70,000 people who bought EOMD to know if they bought more because of MD aspects or EO aspects.

I'll have it on your desk by noon.

 

[Oregano]

The fact that the game was notably supply constrained is pretty strong evidence of it selling above expectations regardless of any BS about how a spinoff affects sales.

EDIT:

ZhugeEX probably is!

Touché.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

Dragon Quest Heroes almost 700K... that's pretty good numbers IMO.

 

[Vena]

ZhugeEX probably is!

Hey, I imported the PS3 version because I wanted to see how it compared to HyWa and DW8 as a musou! (As I have very little interest in the DQ brand outside of the monster series.)

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Dragon Quest Heroes almost 700K... that's pretty good numbers IMO.

And that is without Digital sales, correct?

Spoiler

Square must be happy and planning DQXI as a PS4 exclusive with a 3DS Spin off next to it.

 

[Palette Swap]

I would guess that the number of people who bought Dynasty Warriors 8 are the number of people who bought DQH because it was a Musou game (or at least had the Musou part as a very major factor), with the rest being due to the IP.

On top of what duckroll mentioned, the lack of coop might turn some Musou buyers away from DQH. It would sound silly about other games but coop is a pretty defining feature of the series.

(My point is just that measuring how DQ and Musou intersect into DQH isn't really obvious)

 

[mao2]

And that is without Digital sales, correct?

Spoiler

Square must be happy and planning DQXI as a PS4 exclusive with a 3DS Spin off next to it.

That includes the digital version that comes with the Dragon Quest Metal Slime Edition PS4 bundle.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Dragon Quest Heroes almost 700K... that's pretty good numbers IMO.

Those are good numbers full stop

 

[Sangetsu-II]

That includes the digital version that comes with the Dragon Quest Metal Slime Edition PS4 bundle.

But it doesn't include PSN Digital sales correct? So the 800k LTD predicted here might be full in effect.

 

[duckroll]

Just a clarification because we don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about expressing themselves in this thread or derailing the thread asking why, but the monpiece ban has nothing at all to do with me or Nirolak, or anything in this thread. It was an unfortunate coincidence that it was an alternate account, detected by another mod.

 

[mao2]

But it doesn't include PSN Digital sales correct? So the 800k LTD predicted here might be full in effect.

Yeah, no digital sales.

 

[Vena]

Dude... what the fuck are you talking about. What expectations are YOU talking about. When people say the game sold better than expected, they're saying that it sold better than they expected. This is a sales thread. It is an ongoing exchange of views. We've talked about the impending release of the game and the general expectation here was that it wasn't going to do that hot because MD games have been in severe decline, and Untold 2 sold below the normal expectations of EO. So on both fronts it looked like a harder than usual sell. What you're arguing about... nobody knows.

Of note, not to jump in unannounced, but I think EOU2 is a weird data point as of last year due to the string of EO-like releases (and the EOV teases) and the, then, not distant release of PQ which opened very strongly. That's a lot of the "same" type of game in a short time period and EOU2 is still a remake even if expanded upon, so its dip in sales isn't/wasn't that surprising at the time.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Seems kinda high don't you think? I think something like 65k PS3 30k PS4 seems more likely?

Pretty much spot on. I bow to your wisdom.

700k after two weeks is awesome

 

[duckroll]

Of note, not to jump in unannounced, but I think EOU2 is a weird data point as of last year due to the string of EO-like releases (and the EOV teases) and the, then, not distant release of PQ which opened very strongly. That's a lot of the "same" type of game in a short time period and EOU2 is still a remake even if expanded upon, so its dip in sales isn't/wasn't that surprising at the time.

I don't think it's a weird data point to use when presenting an example of why expectations of EOMD are lower than usual though. Untold 2 came out 3 months ago. Here we are with another EO title, and this time it's a crossover with a franchise which has been in the toilet for a while. It makes sense don't you think? That's not a knock on any of the games, but it definitely affects how people perceive things.

Considering how the shipment of EOMD is failing to meet demand, I would say retailers also had a similar cautious mindset.

 

[Vena]

I don't think it's a weird data point to use when presenting an example of why expectations of EOMD are lower than usual though. Untold 2 came out 3 months ago. Here we are with another EO title, and this time it's a crossover with a franchise which has been in the toilet for a while. It makes sense don't you think? That's not a knock on any of the games, but it definitely affects how people perceive things.

Considering how the shipment of EOMD is failing to meet demand, I would say retailers also had a similar cautious mindset.

I am not trying to argue that it isn't a valid point that is and was in consideration when estimates were made for orders. I meant it more that the data point in and of itself is a bit weird in that I would think it has an exhaustion-element to its decreased numbers would be taken into account when weighing its impact apriori on sales expectations of a new title that is now months removed from previous releases. I think MD being a much, much weaker brand than it has been contributed more to the conservative estimates than the EOU2 data point.

Maybe my wording is poor or I am not talking sense... my head is a bit tied up in my work at the moment, so I do apologize if I am making no sense.

 

[duckroll]

I am not trying to argue that it isn't a valid point that is and was in consideration when estimates were made for orders. I meant it more that the data point in and of itself is a bit weird in that I would think it has an exhaustion-element to its decreased numbers would be taken into account when weighing its impact apriori on sales expectations of a new title that is now months removed from previous releases. I think MD being a much, much weaker brand than it has been contributed more to the conservative estimates than the EOU2 data point.

Well, I agree that MD being a dead ass franchise was a much larger factor, but at the same time, I feel that EOMD is still too close to the entire thing for it to be actually be removed from the fatigue Untold 2 might have been a victim of. You brought up how Untold 2 was close to Persona Q and a bunch of EO related announcements. Let's not forget that EOMD itself was part of those announcements. Untold 2 was 5 months removed from Persona Q, and EOMD is only 3 months removed from Untold 2. EOV is still on the horizon.

What's interesting though, is that regardless of the factors that influenced the lower shipment, the fact now is that whenever EOV is coming out, I think there will be far more retail confidence in it. The brand has proven that it still has strength, and that's very important for Atlus.

 

[Vena]

Well, I agree that MD being a dead ass franchise was a much larger factor, but at the same time, I feel that EOMD is still too close to the entire thing for it to be actually be removed from the fatigue Untold 2 might have been a victim of. You brought up how Untold 2 was close to Persona Q and a bunch of EO related announcements. Let's not forget that EOMD itself was part of those announcements. Untold 2 was 5 months removed from Persona Q, and EOMD is only 3 months removed from Untold 2. EOV is still on the horizon.

True enough but if fatigue/exhaustion hit at EOU2 as I believe it did (on top of it being a remake, and the story of EOU1 not exactly being all that amazing or great to really draw people in) then by the time you get to EOMD you're even farther removed from PQ, and now you have a breath of fresh air in the different mechanics approach of MD rather than Persona skinned atop of EO with some of its elements/persona swapping tied in.

Well, either way, I think we agree on everything but degrees here.

What's interesting though, is that regardless of the factors that influenced the lower shipment, the fact now is that whenever EOV is coming out, I think there will be far more retail confidence in it. The brand has proven that it still has strength, and that's very important for Atlus.

We have any clue/idea on when/where this is even going to be released? Would it be overly surprising to find it on the next handheld?

 

[DarkLordMalik]

700k in just two weeks is pretty damn good result for DQH. Square Enix and Hori must be happy with it. Maybe we will get a DQH 2 as well?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

We have any clue/idea on when/where this is even going to be released? Would it be overly surprising to find it on the next handheld?

EOV was entering active development at the end of 2014/start of 2015, so it's definitely not this year. That's pretty much all we know.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

700k in just two weeks is pretty damn good result for DQH. Square Enix and Hori must be happy with it. Maybe we will get a DQH 2 as well?

No doubt there will be a DQH2. The question is can a DQH2 still post a LTD over 800k. We saw how the OP has severely dropped. From what I hear though DQ seems to be a great game which does please fans. Also what more can they do in a sequel?

 

[Takao]

700k in just two weeks is pretty damn good result for DQH. Square Enix and Hori must be happy with it. Maybe we will get a DQH 2 as well?

maybe there will be a dqh special for some handheld platform ...

 

[Alrus]

No doubt there will be a DQH2. The question is can a DQH2 still post a LTD over 800k. We saw how the OP has severely dropped. From what I hear though DQ seems to be a great game which does please fans. Also what more can they do in a sequel?

Well the original OPM (and the original Hokuto Musou) were very badly received by a lot of the buyers, hence the drastic sequel drop.

I think DQH's reception is better? So while it might not sell as well, the drop might not be as bad.

 

[ZhugeEX]

ZhugeEX probably is!

 

[Oregano]

maybe there will be a dqh special for some handheld platform ...

I think DQH Vita and Hyrule Warriors (N)3DS are both pretty likely to happen. The former moreso than the latter.

 

[Scum]

i feel like by the end of march, the ps4 should be on a sort of upswing and be the one system that overtakes last year's numbers. but it'll be around the 20k-30k range, replacing the vita, while the 3ds may just stick around slightly above that (seriously i thought the wheels would have completely come off in the new year but it's looking pretty similar to last year's numbers so far).

in the next two years the japanese market will probably be a waning 3ds, a weak ps4, and a new nintendo platform. no vita successor, essentially no wii u (or no traditional nintendo console). i half-wonder when people may stop bothering collecting sales data.

Exactly how I see it too.

 

[duckroll]

EOV was entering active development at the end of 2014/start of 2015, so it's definitely not this year. That's pretty much all we know.

I think Komori's comment there is too vague to really assume that. He just says that 2015 is a year where he will be focused on developing EOV. It doesn't really specify when they started, or when it is due. He says he wants to deliver it as soon as possible.

 

[Parakeetman]

Well, I agree that MD being a dead ass franchise was a much larger factor, but at the same time, I feel that EOMD is still too close to the entire thing for it to be actually be removed from the fatigue Untold 2 might have been a victim of. You brought up how Untold 2 was close to Persona Q and a bunch of EO related announcements. Let's not forget that EOMD itself was part of those announcements. Untold 2 was 5 months removed from Persona Q, and EOMD is only 3 months removed from Untold 2. EOV is still on the horizon.

What's interesting though, is that regardless of the factors that influenced the lower shipment, the fact now is that whenever EOV is coming out, I think there will be far more retail confidence in it. The brand has proven that it still has strength, and that's very important for Atlus.

Actually I think the issue of what happened with Untold 2 was how folks were unhappy with the first Untold therefore kinda steered clear of Untold 2 on launch and kinda had a "Mexican Standoff" with everyone waiting for someone else to pick it up to hear how it is.

Sad part about it too is that EO:U2 was actually quite well done and fixed pretty much most of the issues folks had with the first EO:U.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I think Komori's comment there is too vague to really assume that. He just says that 2015 is a year where he will be focused on developing EOV. It doesn't really specify when they started, or when it is due. He says he wants to deliver it as soon as possible.

I see. But surely a 2015 window would have been announced and, at least, a platform if it was going to be released this year.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

No doubt there will be a DQH2. The question is can a DQH2 still post a LTD over 800k. We saw how the OP has severely dropped. From what I hear though DQ seems to be a great game which does please fans. Also what more can they do in a sequel?

The sequel will probably have a shorter dev cycle and budget so I doubt it will cost them as much. In that case, they can get the most out of it even if the game doesn't sell as well as the original.

maybe there will be a dqh special for some handheld platform ...

That too.... but don't know whether Sony will even care enough to ask SE for such a port. I doubt if SE is gonna plan to do it themselves since they think of Vita as nothing but a mobile port machine.

 

[Oregano]

The sequel will probably have a shorter dev cycle and budget so I doubt it will cost them as much. In that case, they can get the most out of it even if the game doesn't sell as well as the original.


That too.... but don't know whether Sony will even care enough to ask SE for such a port. I doubt if SE is gonna plan to do it themselves since they think of Vita as nothing but a mobile port machine.

Except SE arguably has the biggest Vita exclusive announced as of now.

 

[hongcha]

I doubt if SE is gonna plan to do it themselves since they think of Vita as nothing but a mobile port machine.

They are releasing a new, exclusive Saga game on it this year.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Except SE arguably has the biggest Vita exclusive announced as of now.

I will believe it once they announce FF XII HD for Vita.

Kitase promised as much.

They are releasing a new, exclusive Saga game on it this year.

As a Vita fan, I have learned to lower my expectations. Since we haven't seen anything of it yet, I don't know what to say here TBH.

 

[jeremy1456]

I think DQH Vita and Hyrule Warriors (N)3DS are both pretty likely to happen. The former moreso than the latter.

They are both incredibly unlikely to happen.

 

[Chris1964]

I think DQH Vita and Hyrule Warriors (N)3DS are both pretty likely to happen. The former moreso than the latter.

Nothing of these will happen, especially DQH.

Just a clarification because we don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about expressing themselves in this thread or derailing the thread asking why, but the monpiece ban has nothing at all to do with me or Nirolak, or anything in this thread. It was an unfortunate coincidence that it was an alternate account, detected by another mod.

Alt account in sales threads or irrelevant?

 

[ZSaberLink]

Props to Etrian!

Was this promoted as well?
09./00. [3DS] LEGO City Undercover: The Chase Begins <ADV> (Nintendo) {2015.03.05} (¥5.076) - 13.284 / NEW

Seems like Lego City Undercover is in its own "class" when it comes to Lego games in Japan. Sure the #s aren't high either way, but at least Undercover debuts over 10K (13K for 3DS, 18K for LCU Wii U)

Rage Burst is trekking along for what it's worth (#5 on Vita charts, probably will become #3 in a week or 2).

So the slight Wii U increase... is it a pre-Mario Party 10 bump?