Count Dookkake
Member
I hope Sony learns from their experience with the Vita, but I don't expect them to.
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Media Create Sales: Week 19, 2012 (May 07 - May 13)
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
It's not really overlooked, since there are other devices, mostly media that have 2 screens. My personal wet dream is a windows tablet with and E Ink and a regular LCD screen with Wacom digitizer side by side.
3DS won't live up to DS, nothing will in Japan.
Oh and I'm quite sure 3DS will annihilate GBA software sales.
You mean just like your dead set on your opinion? Look, if 2-3% of your overall games use the screen in a great way you can't blame me for thinking it's a gimmick. 90%+ of non-phone games use face buttons, that's not a gimmick, analog stick too, shoulder buttons, etc. and they use them effectively.
I'm not sure about Etrian Odyssey since I've never played it but Rhythm Heaven can easily be done in a handheld like the Vita, with such a large screen you could have a section for the touch rhythms and the center to show the main action. What I'm getting at is that these excuses of "but it shows the options/menu/maps/etc on the bottom screen" is understandable but what I'm getting at is that most of these things can easily be worked around with, especially with Vita's screen size. No, I'm not a Vita fanboy, what I'm saying is that if Nintendo would make a handheld with a screen as large as Vita, then it wouldn't need the second screen.
Since I haven't played EO4, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and I agree with KI:U but like I mentioned, using the touchscreen basically hinders the face buttons and "R" useless. KI:U is one that I agree with though. I'm hope people understand that I do agree that some games do use the second screen correctly, but since most of these games (let's say 95%+) use it for menu, options, etc. it is gimmick (IMO). If a developer finds a way to use the vita touchpad in a way never before seen, I would still think it is not needed, because it doesn't revolutionize gaming. Just like the move controller, it is amazing for strategy games, but it is not needed, it's a gimmick. That's my opinion of course, to each their own
I agree with you here, though some games that do use touchscreen feels even harder and cumbersome to use, but that's in the minority.
I understand everyone's point of view, and it is true that some games make it easier and more fluid, but I do believe that most games do not use it as it's suppose to, and that the menu complains can be worked around and be even more immersive, like Dead Space (like I mentioned). Personally I don't remember a time where I thought "damn it! I have to press start to see the menu, grrr" but that's just me, everyone's experience is different I guess. I do believe that dual screens is a LOT more useful than a rear touchpad, no doubt about that, but to me I just place them both as mostly gimmicky. The sad part is that I'm sure that if Nintendo would've announced the 3DS with a back touch-pad, a lot of people would be praising it as the next innovation in gaming (not saying you guys of course, but a lot of people I know)
ToLateToLove
Member
I think Sony is waiting with the Vita pricedrop because:
1. No need to compensate early adopters.
2. More interesting games to make the pricedrop much more effective.
If they drop the price now it might sell better for a couple of weeks but the games are still not there. Kinda sad considering how everyone went on about how Vitas game library being the best ever on a launch etc.
1. No need to compensate early adopters.
2. More interesting games to make the pricedrop much more effective.
If they drop the price now it might sell better for a couple of weeks but the games are still not there. Kinda sad considering how everyone went on about how Vitas game library being the best ever on a launch etc.
BassForever
Member
But it's still the same logic loop we've been addressing for months
Why isn't Vita Selling?
Too expensive and No games
Drop the price? Still no games
How do you get games? Get developers to believe in your system and develop them
How do you get developer faith? Sell units
How do you sell units? Drop price/new games
Sony can't even really money hat some big exclusives because of how terrible their financial situations are, the only way Sony can save Vita is to make a ton of exclusives 1st party and advertise them well so they sell. None of Sony's 1st party titles can move enough units and Sony has proven their the king of bad advertising.
EvilDick34
Banned
We will agree to disagree but you are railing against everyone in this thread who is telling you the second screen is super useful so i think i will rest knowing my opinion in this case has been backed up by quite a few others, keep fighting the fight killgore.
They should price drop it when P4G comes out in Japan if they're smart.
Some people slightly agree with me. Also, it's a Nintendo handheld, name me one Nintendo handheld people hated? Not even the Micro
People started by hating the 3DS but now the flame has died down and a mario game is announced and people will love the handheld. People hated 3D when Sony announced it for the PS3, bashed it to hell, still do, but I barely see hate for 3D on the 3DS. Basically, Nintendo is the handheld king and will probably never be taken down, which is good too, they announce a mario game or dare I say, a Pokemon game, and it'll still sell millions. They could remake the original Gameboy, with no shoulder buttons and just A and B, release a pokemon game and it'll sell like hot bread.BassForever
Member
Some people slightly agree with me. Also, it's a Nintendo handheld, name me one Nintendo handheld people hated? Not even the Micro
Virtual Boy
This is the most
unsurprising
It's funny, I actually thought the same thing when I got my Vita. You could turn the console 90 degrees and emulate the two screen setup of the DS. Or the way you suggest you could just put the menu/map on the side.
Question is, how many devs will actually do that? Will any? The DS setup kind of forces devs to put stuff on the second screen, it forces them to distinguish between the two screens functionally.
Very few try to make the two screens into one larger since it doesn't work very well. With the Vita's screen on the other hand most devs will prefer to have a bigger playfield. So the advantages of the DS's second screen, even though they can be recreated without it, will hardly be utilized on Vita. I might turn out to be wrong but that's what I think.
It's the same with Xenoblade. On a stronger hardware Monolithsoft would just have concentrated on better presentation and narrative. But both Wii hardware and Nintendo producing helped make it the best game by Monolithsoft according to almost everyone who played XB. Limitation drives quality, it's a basic Nintendo philosophy.
I don't consider the Virtual Boy a handheld.
kobashi100
Banned
Sony Shareholders must be going crazy!!
bigtroyjon
Member
PSP(2011 YTD)= 919,165
PSP+PSV(2012)=629,573(-31.5%)
Looking ahead to Week 20, PSP did 30,528 in 2011.
3DS+DS(2011 YTD)=1,419,926
3DS+DS(2012 YTD)=1,711,158(+20.5%)
Looking ahead to week 20, 3DS+DS did 27,512 in 2011.
All handhelds(2011 YTD)=2,339,091
All handhelds(2012 YTD)=2,340,731
PSP+PSV(2012)=629,573(-31.5%)
Looking ahead to Week 20, PSP did 30,528 in 2011.
3DS+DS(2011 YTD)=1,419,926
3DS+DS(2012 YTD)=1,711,158(+20.5%)
Looking ahead to week 20, 3DS+DS did 27,512 in 2011.
All handhelds(2011 YTD)=2,339,091
All handhelds(2012 YTD)=2,340,731
Cygnus X-1
Member
Failing against DS? Yes, 'cause it output record sales.
Failing against GBA? Not likely at all. Remember the outlook is fantastic software-wise and the numbers till now have been very solid - in comparison to the juggernaut DS for instance - even considering the slow start.
Sure, this still is just Japan-centred vision. The problem of DS lies in the west. I wonder if at some point the success of 3DS in Japan will translate to the west as DS did after having first smashed all records in Japan.
How consistent. Too bad there is no market expansion for now. I wonder if Monster Hunter on 3DS had been the main responsible of the shift of population from Sony's to Nintendo's handheld.
grimshawish
Banned
Some people slightly agree with me. Also, it's a Nintendo handheld, name me one Nintendo handheld people hated? Not even the Micro
Except ofc people bash the 3D on 3DS ALL THE TIME! Are you really claiming no one called it a gimmick?
Not to mention on a console you need daft glasses and its unnecessary. Its a main part of the 3DS and all games have to use it. Bit like the Dual Screen - its called the Nintendo DS!
Whereas Vita just chucks functions in the hope of doing everything. Its daft and only increases costs without adding to the systems actual value.
bigtroyjon
Member
I guess that must be Famatsu numbers because last years MC numbers are 124,052 total.
EvilDick34
Banned
This is what makes me laugh at Sony, when the Vita was first announced and detailed, all i could think about was the car that Homer Simpson designed for his brother Herb albeit the Vita is quite sexy design wise but come on, Sony just threw a whole bunch of shit into the system and hoping one of those things would make it the next hot thing.
I said people hated on it and the flame has died down, not that it's completely dead.
BassForever
Member
electroplankton
Banned
This.
DS was a beast.
3DS can still achieve a huge success by making the userbase more active on third party side.
I think this was pretty granted...?
Cygnus X-1
Member
Hard at work on 3DS XL
It's been dead for years. That's why the 3DS and PSV seemed like blatant attempts to cater to the increasingly portable-centric Japanese market, and why the latter's lack of performance there is a bit surprising.
Handheld gaming is the dominant market in Japan but I think Wii U will do great
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Not doing as good as the best selling videogame system ever+revision+1y more of games = BAD
Having one single large screen doesn't have the same design considerations as for multiple screens. At the basic level, allocation of screen space for various display elements is a key user experience design element. Screen size, resolution, DPI, number of screens, screen symmetry, orientation all affect the designer's choices in creating the interface. However, having a secondary screen that also has user input capabilities adds another layer of complexity. For example, suppose you created a game that used keyboard inputs for text chat. Building that as a PC game which uses a physical keyboard separate from the screen, or as an iPad game where the user pops up the virtual keyboard or has the keyboard available at all times, or as a DS game where the virtual keyboard is always on the lower screen are all going to have different results for the user, regardless of whether you think one is better than the other.
Many thought they learned from their experience with PSP and PS3. Now we have this situation with VITA.
In addition to glasses, people need to have a 3D TV to use the function and not everyone has one.
You also said people still bash 3D on PS3 but I haven't seen anyone talking about it (let along bash it) for a long time.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Game & Watch did it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before. DS popularising it was another issue entirely.
BengaBenga
Member
I really wonder whether Vita's performance will have an impact on the amount of money available for the PS4 development. I don't know what profits Sony expected from Vita, but it has got to be a lot more than what it's generating now. And with the company in financial shambles it's realistic that whatever SCE is called now will have to compensate for the lack of Vita profits somewhere.
It's so funny, when the Vita was announced Yoshida actually claimed that they had learned from the mistakes with PS3 and that they made sure not to make the Vita as expensive. What they apparently don't get is that 250$ (+hidden costs) for a handheld is almost as bad as 600$ for a console. Both were steep steps upward on the price scale of their respective hardware class (and Nintendo "learned" a bad thing from Sony).
Father_Brain
Banned
If Vita continues selling at its current rate, I wonder how likely it is that Sony will have to temporarily halt production like Nintendo did for GC in (IIRC) early 2003. That'd be pretty damn expensive, and would even further delay the point at which a price cut would be feasible.
grimshawish
Banned
What I find much funnier is all those games 'journalists' (lol) who claimed it was somehow cheap - even post-3DS-cut.
There is still a pro-Sony sentiment out there developed over the PS2 Era; which is understandable but everyone (including Sony) need to realise that with the PS3 we saw customers show that they are underneath it all - disloyal.
Mind you - as soon as the memory card cost was announced I think everyone gasped, retailers/customers/journalists alike!
Four_Chamber
Member
Vita is starting to circle the drain. Is there any territory where people are buying this thing? What 3rd party in their right mind will want to make games for a system thats in the hands of so few?
That's the million dollar question. When the 3DS didn't takeoff immediately, rumors began suggesting third-parties were halting development of games for it. Vita is performing a lot worse than 3DS was, so, if those 3DS game cancellations were true, you have to assume the same is happening for Vita.
They weren't rumours. When Iwata was explaining the price cut to 3DS, he came right out and said one of the factors for the dramatic nature of the price cut was because 3rd-party partners were starting to reevaluate their commitment to the platform.
And the price drop was 5.5 months after the system's launch in Japan. Vita has now been out 5 months, and those 5 months have been a good deal worse than Nintendo's first 5.5 months. So if Iwata was already worried about 3rd-parties bailing at this point in time, it's pretty easy to imagine how things must look for Vita right about now.
I just don't know if Sony has the will or desire to try to take the same drastic steps as Nintendo did with 3DS. They just went through the same thing trying to salvage the PS3 a few years ago - and they lost billions, and sacrificed all of their PSP support in order to try to save the PS3. But the PS3 was their flagship product. I just don't think Vita is anywhere near as important to them. And with the PS4 efforts starting to ramp up, they really can't afford to divert a huge chunk of their resources to try to save Vita.
Exterminieren
Banned
If people are buying BW2 in similar levels to the originals, along with 3DS to experience the apps and to invest in the future, a lot of oxygen is taken from the rest of the market.
Nobody's saying Persona will flop, but the moment is wrong for a Vita resurgence. Should have been in time for Golden Week, not when 3DS hits a stretch of killer apps.
I'm pretty sure that MP9 would have outsold SS even if it hadn't flopped. Though obviously not this fast.
Cosmonaut X
Member
Not just rumours - I'm sure it was addressed in an investor meeting by Iwata who explained the pricecut as a necessary measure to get the system moving and persuade hesitant third parties to continue with development.
EDIT:
Ah, Dalthien got there first and more eloquently.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
My jaw dropped on the Vita numbers until I saw 3DS's plunge, as well as everything else. Bad week for gaming in Japan period.
you are basically saying sony should step out of the handheld arena, alltogether.
They failed, game over.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Haha. And that first one is probably thanks to the DS shortages between holiday 2005 and Lite.
Isn't this the way the original Wii Classic Controller went? Full size L/R, littler ZL/ZR nearer the center.KillGore said:
The 3DS did not plunge. It had the usual post golden week reduced sales.