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Media Create Sales: Week 35, 2014 (Aug 25 - Aug 31)

H

hongcha

Member
I think DQXI will be PS3/PS4 only. DQH is not releasing on Wii U, so I don't see DQXI going there. I also don't see 3DS as an option due to technical issues: it would look and run like crap (DQVII already runs pretty poorly on the system with a bad framerate and lots of pop-in, and it has rather simple graphics/assets), and n3DS-only would be silly because the userbase will be relatively small. Maybe they'll do some garbage streaming online-only version like DQX 3DS, but that's probably all we'll get on the 3DS, if anything.

I don't think they'll bother with a Vita version as you can just remote play the PS4 version, and the userbase is too small.
 
O

Oregano

Member
hongcha said:
I think DQXI will be PS3/PS4 only. DQH is not releasing on Wii U, so I don't see DQXI going there. I also don't see 3DS as an option due to technical issues: it would look and run like crap (DQVII already runs pretty poorly on the system with a bad framerate and lots of pop-in, and it has rather simple graphics/assets), and n3DS-only would be silly because the userbase will be relatively small. Maybe they'll do some garbage streaming online-only version like DQX 3DS, but that's probably all we'll get on the 3DS, if anything.

I don't think they'll bother with a Vita version as you can just remote play the PS4 version, and the userbase is too small.
Click to expand...

Except n3DS will likely have a bigger install base than PS4 and PS3's install base probably won't be as active any more.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
hongcha said:
I think DQXI will be PS3/PS4 only. DQH is not releasing on Wii U, so I don't see DQXI going there. I also don't see 3DS as an option due to technical issues: it would look and run like crap (DQVII already runs pretty poorly on the system with a bad framerate and lots of pop-in, and it has rather simple graphics/assets), and n3DS-only would be silly because the userbase will be relatively small. Maybe they'll do some garbage streaming online-only version like DQX 3DS, but that's probably all we'll get on the 3DS, if anything.

I don't think they'll bother with a Vita version as you can just remote play the PS4 version, and the userbase is too small.
Click to expand...

I think Vita and WiiU are the least likely platforms.

3DS/PS4/PS3 is what I'm expecting. DQH just means they are trying to build an audience on PS3/4. They have already built an audience on 3DS. It would be weird if they did not capitalise on that.

XB1 may also have a chance if they see the venture as profitable.
 
F

Frodo

Member
Can't wait to see the numbers and have a taste of a Japanese industry rising from the ashes tomorrow. X1 will make consoles popular again.
 
T

Toemon

Banned
Nirolak said:
The Xbox One still moves a lot of software.

This is why every major title is on it.

But it will move zero software in Japan so it's pointless locally.
Click to expand...

Now wait a minute now, lets wait for the numbers tonight before we write Xbox off completely. Unless someone already posted them.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Toemon said:
Now wait a minute now, lets wait for the numbers tonight before we write Xbox off completely. Unless someone already posted them.
Click to expand...

There is no need to wait for numbers. General software trends for next week are showing XB1 software bombing. XB1 has bombed....to what extent remains to be seen tomorrow.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Psycho_Mantis said:
I think FF Type 0 will give SE an idea on if its worth it or not.
Click to expand...
If they're going to release it as a non-niche title in the West it will likely be on Xbox One a la FF15 and KH3.

My main question revolves around "Would Square Enix view the game as a serious release in the West or just a way to please a small audience."

To note I don't think the bar for non-niche is super large here but if they expect a combined 300K copies across all Western nations it might not be worthwhile.
 
T

Takao

Banned
Unless it's a western leaning property, and I mean really western leaning, I wouldn't be surprised if XB1 starts getting dropped from Japanese games. By the end of last gen, the PS3 versions of many Japanese games were routinely outselling the 360 ones by a big margin in a market like the US. If that's happening on the dominant platform in the US, a platform that Microsoft bought notable Japanese software for, what's going to happen on a second place console with no notable Japanese exclusives?

I expect Koei Tecmo to be the first one to do this. Ninja Gaiden and DOA will continue getting XB1 versions, but their Warriors games? They dropped 360 midway through last gen.
 
D

DrWong

Member
Toemon said:
Now wait a minute now, lets wait for the numbers tonight before we write Xbox off completely. Unless someone already posted them.
Click to expand...

Crazy post. More than an old crazy man saying homogenization is at work in the AAA segment of the industry.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Takao said:
Unless it's a western leaning property, and I mean really western leaning, I wouldn't be surprised if XB1 starts getting dropped from Japanese games. By the end of last gen, the PS3 versions of many Japanese games were routinely outselling the 360 ones by a big margin in a market like the US. If that's happening on the dominant platform in the US, a platform that Microsoft bought notable Japanese software for, what's going to happen on a second place console with no notable Japanese exclusives?

I expect Koei Tecmo to be the first one to do this. Ninja Gaiden and DOA will continue getting XB1 versions, but their Warriors games? They dropped 360 midway through last gen.
Click to expand...

Guess it just depends on how much publishers will be willing to spend versus the return on investment.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Kagari said:
If it's anything like FFXIII-2 or Lightning Returns... welp.
Click to expand...

It probably will be, if not worse. For Japanese games I full expect the PS4:XB1 ratio to lean far more to the PS4 than the PS3:360 ratio ever did to the PS3.

Nirolak said:
If they're going to release it as a non-niche title in the West it will likely be on Xbox One a la FF15 and KH3.

My main question revolves around "Would Square Enix view the game as a serious release in the West or just a way to please a small audience."
Click to expand...

I was going to say FXV but the lack of release window stopped me.

Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other jrpg can sell numbers even close to what FF and KH do in the West. I'm sure the history of FF and the inclusion of Disney in KH play huge roles in their sales but is there more?
 
T

Takao

Banned
Square Enix's games have production budgets higher than $20 and actually have marketing campaigns. The JRPG genre as a whole isn't in vogue anymore either.
 
T

Toemon

Banned
Psycho_Mantis said:
It probably will be, if not worse. For Japanese games I full expect the PS4:XB1 ratio to lean far more to the PS4 than the PS3:360 ratio ever did to the PS3.



I was going to say FXV but the lack of release window stopped me.

Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other jrpg can sell numbers even close to what FF and KH do in the West. I'm sure the history of FF and the inclusion of Disney in KH play huge roles in their sales but is there more?
Click to expand...

Because FF is appealing to most groups of people. You got realistic looking people, black people, politics, games in the future, games aiming for a more disney give, games that target children, games that target those looking for more in depth games, targeting mmo players. Basically ffs variety is the only thing saving it and why it sells well in the west. Its not all about aiming for niche anime fans with similar looking characters with plots that cant be taking seriously, and lack of variety (in comparison)

The last few KH games didn't sell that well iits.
 
W

wrowa

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
My reason is that porting from PS4 to XB1 will be cheap.
Click to expand...

Porting from PS3 to Wii U would be cheap too. Porting from PS3 to Vita probably wouldn't be that expensive either if you expect the game to be downscalable to 3DS levels anyway.

Will be interesting to see where DQXI ends up either way. PS3/PS4 feels the most likely to me right now, but leaving the 3DS in the cold despite being the most popular dedicated gaming platform in Japan - which is also the home to quite a few successful DQ games already - seems just so very bizarre. I can't imagine that the cloud thing would be viable for a game as huge as DQXI would be if SE already seems to be facing problems with the port of DQX.
 
T

Toemon

Banned
Takao said:
Square Enix's games have production budgets higher than $20 and actually have marketing campaigns. The JRPG genre as a whole isn't in vogue anymore either.
Click to expand...

Also this. Ffxiii was a risk most would not have taken, especially with a decent budget, let alone 2 sequels. Compare to Disgaea hybrid, or Lufia to see the clear differences.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other jrpg can sell numbers even close to what FF and KH do in the West. I'm sure the history of FF and the inclusion of Disney in KH play huge roles in their sales but is there more?
Click to expand...

Well, first of all, how many JRPGs can you name which have the same production values of FF and KH, and equivalent marketing campaigns, and failed to sell anything close?
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
duckroll said:
Well, first of all, how many JRPGs can you name which have the same production values of FF and KH, and equivalent marketing campaigns, and failed to sell anything close?
Click to expand...

You would think that there would be more given the success of FF and KH but I guess the proposition is way too risky especially with new Ip's. If only some of these companies had taken these risks when budgets were considerably smaller.
 
W

wrowa

Member
Toemon said:
Also this. Ffxiii was a risk most would not have taken, especially with a decent budget, let alone 2 sequels. Compare to Disgaea hybrid, or Lufia to see the clear differences.
Click to expand...

Developing a sequel in a highly successful franchise sounds about as risky as your usual CoD sequel to me. :p The FFXIII sequels are games that SE shouldn't have released period. Sales weren't good and the poor reception of FFXIII and its sequels have only hurt the franchise.

Are you aware that SE owns the rights to Lufia, btw?
 
K

Kandinsky

Member
9thwonder said:
I'd imagine that the actual production cost of pokemon is pretty cheap.
Click to expand...

So?, it was in response to this..
Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other jrpg can sell numbers even close to what FF and KH do in the West. I'm sure the history of FF and the inclusion of Disney in KH play huge roles in their sales but is there more?
Click to expand...
I just suck at quoting :p
 
T

Toemon

Banned
wrowa said:
Developing a sequel in a highly successful franchise sounds about as risky as your usual CoD sequel to me. :p The FFXIII sequels are games that SE shouldn't have released period. Sales weren't good and the poor reception of FFXIII and its sequels have only hurt the franchise.

Are you aware that SE owns the rights to Lufia, btw?
Click to expand...

They continued 2 times after people showed disinterest. Thats pretty bold honestly.

And while I did not know Square owned Lufia, its not mainstream for the same reasons as what other people and myself already said.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
You would think that there would be more given the success of FF and KH but I guess the proposition is way too risky especially with new Ip's. If only some of these companies had taken these risks when budgets were considerably smaller.
Click to expand...

No, actually I don't. It's a really high bar and JRPG is just one genre. Very few publishers in Japan command that level of spending power in the west, and those who do tend to specialize in different areas. Konami = MGS. Capcom = RE. Square Enix = FF. We can also change the question to these:

"Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other japanese stealth action game can sell numbers even close to what MGS does in the West. I'm sure the history of MGS plays a huge role in their sales but is there more?"

"Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other japanese horror game can sell numbers even close to what RE does in the West. I'm sure the history of RE plays a huge role in their sales but is there more?"

We're talking about multi-millions in sales outside of Japan. That's a high bar which requires a lot of brand awareness and spending power. Also, how about this?

"Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other platforming game can sell numbers even close to what Mario does in the anywhere. I'm sure the history of Mario plays a huge role in their sales but is there more?"

:)

9thwonder said:
I'd imagine that the actual production cost of pokemon is pretty cheap.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but the marketing sure isn't.
 
W

wrowa

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
You would think that there would be more given the success of FF and KH but I guess the proposition is way too risky especially with new Ip's. If only some of these companies had taken these risks when budgets were considerably smaller.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if there's really room in the market for another huge RPG franchise these days. Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts seem to be successful despite being JRPGs. If you are going to put a huge budget into the development of a game, it doesn't really seem like a wise decision to make a AAA FF competitor right now.

It's quite telling that even SE doesn't really seem to be able to make a AAA Final Fantasy game that's up to today's expectations. FFXIII can safely be called a failure (not sales wise, but in terms of reputation) and FFXV taking an eternity might not be unrelated to them trying (and struggling) to figure out a formula that can be successful today.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Psycho_Mantis said:
You would think that there would be more given the success of FF and KH but I guess the proposition is way too risky especially with new Ip's. If only some of these companies had taken these risks when budgets were considerably smaller.
Click to expand...
To an extent this is what I was talking about a couple of months ago in regards to Square Enix, Level 5, and early to mid last-gen Capcom.

They're companies that are (for some of them, were) actually willing to go out and head smash into gigantic franchises to try and compete and take marketshare.

It's expensive, but it's the kind of behavior that has major rewards if successful and really excites consumers.

Just look at how much Yokai Watch 2 has sold while trying to fight industry giant Pokemon.

I feel Japanese publishers in general could use more of that spirit, even if it's about competing with cheaper games than a mainline FF.
 
T

Toemon

Banned
duckroll said:
No, actually I don't. It's a really high bar and JRPG is just one genre. Very few publishers in Japan command that level of spending power in the west, and those who do tend to specialize in different areas. Konami = MGS. Capcom = RE. Square Enix = FF. We can also change the question to these:

"Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other japanese stealth action game can sell numbers even close to what MGS does in the West. I'm sure the history of MGS plays a huge role in their sales but is there more?"

"Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other japanese horror game can sell numbers even close to what RE does in the West. I'm sure the history of RE plays a huge role in their sales but is there more?"

We're talking about multi-millions in sales outside of Japan. That's a high bar which requires a lot of brand awareness and spending power. Also, how about this?

"Slightly off topic, but one of the things that I have always wondered is why no other platforming game can sell numbers even close to what Mario does in the anywhere. I'm sure the history of Mario plays a huge role in their sales but is there more?"

:)



Maybe, but the marketing sure isn't.
Click to expand...

I supposed Silent Hill wouldn't count or would it because its a Japanese owned IP?
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I do think Konami does have some grander aspirations these days with things like Lords of Shadow and Silent Hills given that they're much more aggressive financially than what came immediately before.

Lords of Shadow kind of imploded, but the first entry did have some success in rebooting the series even if it wasn't the direction I was hoping for.

But yeah existing Silent Hill (and quite likely the new one) gets no where near Resident Evil sales.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Nirolak said:
To an extent this is what I was talking about a couple of months ago in regards to Square Enix, Level 5, and early to mid last-gen Capcom.

They're companies that are (for some of them, were) actually willing to go out and head smash into gigantic franchises to try and compete and take marketshare.

It's expensive, but it's the kind of behavior that has major rewards if successful and really excites consumers.

Just look at how much Yokai Watch 2 has sold while trying to fight industry giant Pokemon.

I feel Japanese publishers in general could use more of that spirit, even if it's about competing with cheaper games than a mainline FF.
Click to expand...

He's talking about the west though. That's the trickiest part. Japanese publishers have a hard enough time fighting for recognition just in Japan, most of them don't have the resources and means to really compete outside of it. Level5 is actually a really great example of that. Without partnering with established publishers like Nintendo and Bandai Namco, they can't even release games outside of Japan. They have no infrastructure at all. It's really hard.
 
Z

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
Wow... I never realized Silent Hill was THAT small.


Silent Hill 2 69,285 126,262

As far as I can tell, that's the best selling version of the series back in 2001. It only got worse sales-wise with 3 & 4. That means that Silent Hill is closer to being in the same league as Fatal Frame as opposed to Resident Evil.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Wynnebeck said:
I'd imagine getting Norman Reedus to star in the next SH will do wonders for the western audiences who already love him in The Walking Dead.
Click to expand...

I think it also depends heavily on what sort of game it is. I hate to say it, but I don't think the audience who loves him in Walking Dead are watching the show because it is some sort of psychological horror masterpiece with creative scares. Silent Hill's very nature is a bit of a sales kryptonite. Not enough shoot bang. Not enough constant excitement. Not enough set pieces.

Just look at how RE has evolved and how the sales have grown with that.
 
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