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[damisa]

The PS2's demand was most likely stronger in all 3 regions. You do understand supply and demand, right? There is NO 360 supply in US & Europe, so any demand will be nuts.

As has been pointed out a couple of times in this thread, the PS2 sold more than the 360 based on every metric we've seen so far, and that includes Microsoft's worldwide launch vs PS2's Japan only launch.

Now, Microsoft will take a lead in a few months most likely as it was 6 months after the Japanese launch and they should be able to overtake the PS2's shipments before it launched in the US & Europe.

While I do expect great things from the 360, it's not quite such a no brainer that they will actually hit 10M in a year as the PS2 did. I thought it was guaranteed, but these production problems + Japanese disinterest will make it interesting. It looks to hinge on how the 360 will do once supply clears up in Europe.

Isn't the fact that initial 360 sales are close to initial PS2 sales a good thing. The 360 doesn't have to outsell the PS2 to be successful.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Isn't the fact that initial 360 sales are close to initial PS2 sales a good thing. .

How's it close? Is that 1.3m the article mentions for worldwide sales? If so, Sony pushed that amount in Japan in less than a month.

 

[borghe]

Do you live in bizarro stupidland world where nothing is correct?

QOTT! LOL!

It's a good system and it won't get Dreamcasted but fanboy bragging rights are certainly on the line here.

technically "dreamcasted" is incorrect in what you are referring to, unless by "dreamcasting" you are referring to a company in trouble losing all faith in a solid performing machine so they prematurely pull out of the market entirely.

as to if it willbe beaten by a wide enough margin to affect development once more, then by current performance (lack of install base, not lack of interest) it is certainly a possibility. If MS can't outsell a ton more than what the PS3 will likely sell in Month One in america combined with Japan sales up to that point, next generation will continue to be as lopsided as far as worldwide developer support goes as this generation was. sure there was plenty of multi-platform gaming, but the PS2 won on exclusive content, an area where the PS3 could still succeed in.

 

[damisa]

How's it close? Is that 1.3m the article mentions for worldwide sales? If so, Sony pushed that amount in Japan in less than a month.

Yes but the total numbers are close. It doesn't matter where they are sold. It's not like the PS2 launched worldwide.

 

[RidgeCityFM]

yes glance over the fact that i've said second and 3rd shipments like 3 times now, not LAUNCH and yuck it up.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yes but the total numbers are close.

Yes, the worldwide numbers for the 360 are comparable to the Japan numbers for the PS2 (and for a lesser amount of time on the market). Are you saying that's somehow a positive thing?

 

[JJConrad]

snake, then that means what? the 360 still has more than enough going for all the doom and gloom in this thread to be pointless. MS will have almost a full year in the US and possibly europe to clean up once they get their act together. If the software is there then it wont be a problem. Look at the demand for the system. if there was no demand then there'd be an issue but you still have people looking to line up at best buy just on rumors on the net of possible shipments coming in. you never saw anything like that with the ps2 or any other system for that matter. the demand is nuts.

The difference between the PS2 and the 360 is that while Sony shipped about 1.3 million units to the US for its holiday/launch, MS has shipped about 800,000 (1.3 million world-wide). The lines forming for the system has more to do with the ridiculously short supply than with unprecedentedly huge demand. Does anyone think that people would still have been camping-out for the 360 like they did in December had that extra half million units been available last year?



I expect to see these problems create pretty big ripples throughout the system's first year. Expect many title to be delayed, especially any 1stQ titles. Also expect developer/publisher/retail confidence to be shaken because of this. MS had enormous hopes riding on them being "first-mover" and they bungled it. There best hope to be first now is that their competition messes up even worse. The chances of both Sony and Nintendo doing that is very slim.

 

[borghe]

There best hope to be first now is that their competition messes up even worse. The chances of both Sony and Nintendo doing that is very slim.

considering this will be sony's fourth console launch, Nintendo's umpteenth console launch, and the rumors that PS3 is still on track for Spring 2006 release and that Revolution hardware is done.............

very slim is being generous.

 

[psycho_snake]

considering this will be sony's fourth console launch, Nintendo's umpteenth console launch, and the rumors that PS3 is still on track for Spring 2006 release and that Revolution hardware is done.............

very slim is being generous.

The only way sony can slip up is if they overprice it. their success is in their own hands.

 

[damisa]

Yes, the worldwide numbers for the 360 are comparable to the Japan numbers for the PS2 (and for a lesser amount of time on the market). Are you saying that's somehow a positive thing?

Yes I am. The 360 sold a similar amount in its first month compared to the most successful console ever (PS2). Sure the PS2 would have sold more if there were more units available and it launched worldwide, but it didn't.

 

[marc^o^]

(how hard must it be for Nintendo to retain their mouth shut when they are so proud of their Revolution. I see them grin at Microsoft misfortune, desperately waiting for E3 to take the whole world by storm, with a childish joy)

 

[D3VI0US]

There best hope to be first now is that their competition messes up even worse. The chances of both Sony and Nintendo doing that is very slim.

I don't think so, Sony can't afford to give MS a 2nd holiday uncontested anywhere, especially in Europe if a an online Pro Evolution hits during the World Cup Frenzy. Still Sony will have shortages during launch on any already questionable Spring window and that's not even taking MS global strategy into account. If people walk into a store holiday 06 and can't get a PS3 what reasons has Sony given them to not walk out with a 360?

Rev's a wildcard in every respect from launch, to supply, to content, that should be interesting.

 

[marc^o^]

I don't think so, Sony can't afford to give MS a 2nd holiday uncontested anywhere, especially in Europe if a an online Pro Evolution hits during the World Cup Frenzy.

Exactly, the minute Next Gen Pro Evolution is available on any format, it will sell hardware like crazy. Microsoft still has its chance, don't call it dead yet.

 

[Bigfonzie]

Lack of units have really killed all hype for the 360, now people are asking for a new big game (halo 3?) and thats not coming for a while.

They should of delayed the Japanese launch to 1)spread out the hype, and give a bigger platform to titles like DOA. 2)used those units elsewhere, they need to build up a big base to compete with the ps3, because they will be outsold when the ps3 hits with all the hype.

 

[D3VI0US]

Revolution hardware is done.............

Link and WTF does that even mean? I mean I'm sure the PS3 hardware is somewhere on paper, does that make it done? Are full dev kits availible? If not that lends me to think it's not done. Also even if it's done there's still the manufacturing process and all that jazz. I mean I'm sure they specced it to be easy to produce but hardware supply and demand are still question at this point regardless of it being "done".

Another interesting question about PS3 supply. Didn't Toshiba help manufacture PS2 chips? I doubt they'll do the same with PS3 chip with Cell going into all of their TVs and Blu Ray being a HD-DVD competitor. With all the fancypants components in PS3 I could easily see them having major supply issues.

 

[D3VI0US]

Lack of units have really killed all hype for the 360, now people are asking for a new big game (halo 3?) and thats not coming for a while.

They should of delayed the Japanese launch to 1)spread out the hype, and give a bigger platform to titles like DOA. 2)used those units elsewhere, they need to build up a big base to compete with the ps3, because they will be outsold when the ps3 hits with all the hype.

Didn't even think of spreading out the hype but that would have helped on the sabatoge 360 bugs and sales as well. Japanese games would have benefitted from more time before launch especially given all the delays. Not to mention 360 is gonna get trounced by PS3 day one in Japan so why bother rushing at the cost of strength in other territories? DOA4, N3, RR6, and some Japanese centric Live Arcade games like SF2 would have gone a long way.

 

[monkeymagic]

Exactly, the minute Next Gen Pro Evolution is available on any format, it will sell hardware like crazy. Microsoft still has its chance, don't call it dead yet.

Pretty much every WE/PES fan knows the next gen version will definitely be coming to PS3.

There will be no need to switch hardware and more importantly controller if we want to play the next gen edition.

 

[fortified_concept]

Exactly, the minute Next Gen Pro Evolution is available on any format, it will sell hardware like crazy. Microsoft still has its chance, don't call it dead yet.

Europe is Sonyland. They'll buy it on PS2. And btw in Europe, online is insignificant. Don't get your hopes up.

 

[marc^o^]

My point was, if Konami releases it for x360 during the world cup and PS3 is not available in Europe at this time, expect amazing x360 sales this summer. I'm pretty sure even PS2 owners would make the jump.

 

[monkeyrun]

Europe is Sonyland. They'll buy it on PS2. And btw in Europe online is not important at all. Don't get your hopes up.

yeah who would play games online when you have to pay by the kilobytes :lol
seriously ... you could be freaking broke before you know it.

 

[fortified_concept]

My point was, if Konami releases it for x360 during the world cup and PS3 is not available in Europe at this time, expect amazing x360 sales this summer.

Konami will release it on PS2 whether PS3 is ready or not. And expect amazing sales on the PS2 version as always. You're way too optimistic.

 

[kaching]

technically "dreamcasted" is incorrect in what you are referring to, unless by "dreamcasting" you are referring to a company in trouble losing all faith in a solid performing machine so they prematurely pull out of the market entirely.

I didn't realize there would be such a deep discussion to be had over the technically correct way of using a newly coined term such as this. I didn't think I'd have to refer to the entire console and corporate situation to make use of the term.

Dreamcasted = meeting a rather premature demise, regardless of the specific circumstances behind that. At least, that's the way I used it.

as to if it willbe beaten by a wide enough margin to affect development once more, then by current performance (lack of install base, not lack of interest) it is certainly a possibility. If MS can't outsell a ton more than what the PS3 will likely sell in Month One in america combined with Japan sales up to that point, next generation will continue to be as lopsided as far as worldwide developer support goes as this generation was. sure there was plenty of multi-platform gaming, but the PS2 won on exclusive content, an area where the PS3 could still succeed in.

I don't see the 360 doing any worse than the Xbox. Might not be the happiest outcome for MS or fanboys, but it should be assured a reasonable stream of software both in terms of general volume and exclusive content.

 

[D3VI0US]

WE has been announced for 360 and PS3 a while ago. Granted WE controlled better on PS2 but with the new controller it will control just as well if not better on 360. There are plenty of reasons why people would switch but they're situations that haven't come up yet so no point in addressing it. I just question Europe's brand loyalty to Sony being as devout as some say.

 

[Ranger X]

"We are going to be first on the market and grab as much userbase as possible before the competition arise".

**rolleyes

Life is not as sweet as we would want sometimes...

 

[Speevy]

There will be no need to switch hardware and more importantly controller if we want to play the next gen edition.

At this point you might be better off sticking with the Xbox 360 controller, regardless of what console you buy. Maybe get an adapter?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

My point was, if Konami releases it for x360 during the world cup and PS3 is not available in Europe at this time, expect amazing x360 sales this summer. I'm pretty sure even PS2 owners would make the jump.

I had not considered that. Good point. It is a shame that EA released such a bland FIFA at launch when they could have held out til closer to the World Cup and made a better game.

 

[D3VI0US]

I had not considered that. Good point. It is a shame that EA released such a bland FIFA at launch when they could have held out til closer to the World Cup and made a better game.

EA always releases a World Cup game independant to Fifa, usually it's rehash but this year it could be largely imrpoved from Fifa 360 but that's not saying much. Still I believe that 360 is one of the World Cup sponsors maybe even along with EA and Adidas but I might be making things up as I didn't really care all that much.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Exactly, the minute Next Gen Pro Evolution is available on any format, it will sell hardware like crazy. Microsoft still has its chance, don't call it dead yet.

Can anyone ever call it dead?

I mean, I'd understand it if I tried getting a DoA game online going and couldn't find anyone, or if my there was no one on my friends list but even considering the significant launch problems, I feel that the 360 has proven itself to be a viable platform that can, save a few exceptions, make game publishers money. Doesn't it have one of the best attatch rates for purchased games? Publishers like hearing that.

And even at this early stage and with supply problems still prevalent, the 360 Online community is already quite robust. So many people are playing the 360, enjoying it, and buying games for it. Matter of fact, I've seen a few people on my friend's list just starting up CoD2 for the first time, which means they're still getting launch titles. By the end of the month there'll be another potentially great title (Top Spin 2) and once February arrives, forget it. FN3 and Full Auto?

The best part about the 360 online environment is that when a new game arrives, you can see and feel the impact. Suddenly everyone on your friends list is playing the same game. Half of them are in joinable matches. You can see your friends' progress and that'll drive you to play it even more or, if you haven't picked it up, it might change your mind. (Like I did with Kameo). Whereas it used to be you'd rely on message board buzz (which is never reliable) or the handful of people you know in real life who play games. Now, a new game arrives and the switchboard goes off. Everyone's playing it. It's in the 360 of like the 10 people on your friends list who absolutely know their shit, you drop them a voice message and you can find out whether or not it's worth it.

When those two February blockbusters drop, you will definitely see the impact in Live. I can't wait for that.

Does this mean it's going to beat the PS3? I highly doubt it. Does this mean it's a viable platform for the future, despite problems at launch? 100% absolutely.

And for the record, I think the Rev is going to do much more damage to the PS3 than the 360 ever has a chance to. It seems to me like the Rev is aimed straight at the family game system market, the PS3 is aimed squarely at the hardcore gamer and videophile, and the 360 is in the middle, with Live on one side and 720p on the other.

You could make the argument, "apprentice at many, master of none" (or however that goes) but I feel that the fact that the 360 is moving not only units but tons of games, makes that pretty much moot at this point.

 

[Speevy]

The Xbox 360 will do fine before it's all over with, and I'd bet on it significantly outselling Nintendo's console.

 

[psycho_snake]

I had not considered that. Good point. It is a shame that EA released such a bland FIFA at launch when they could have held out til closer to the World Cup and made a better game.

You may have not taken PS2 into consideration either. Im willing to bet my house that World cup 06 will sell much better on PS2 then it will on Xbox360.

 

[marc^o^]

Can anyone ever call it dead?

I mean, I'd understand it if I tried getting a DoA game online going and couldn't find anyone, or if my there was no one on my friends list but even considering the significant launch problems, I feel that the 360 has proven itself to be a viable platform that can, save a few exceptions, make game publishers money. Doesn't it have one of the best attatch rates for purchased games? Publishers like hearing that.

And even at this early stage and with supply problems still prevalent, the 360 Online community is already quite robust. So many people are playing the 360, enjoying it, and buying games for it. Matter of fact, I've seen a few people on my friend's list just starting up CoD2 for the first time, which means they're still getting launch titles. By the end of the month there'll be another potentially great title (Top Spin 2) and once February arrives, forget it. FN3 and Full Auto?

The best part about the 360 online environment is that when a new game arrives, you can see and feel the impact. Suddenly everyone on your friends list is playing the same game. Half of them are in joinable matches. You can see your friends' progress and that'll drive you to play it even more or, if you haven't picked it up, it might change your mind. (Like I did with Kameo). Whereas it used to be you'd rely on message board buzz (which is never reliable) or the handful of people you know in real life who play games. Now, a new game arrives and the switchboard goes off. Everyone's playing it. It's in the 360 of like the 10 people on your friends list who absolutely know their shit, you drop them a voice message and you can find out whether or not it's worth it.

When those two February blockbusters drop, you will definitely see the impact in Live. I can't wait for that.

Does this mean it's going to beat the PS3? I highly doubt it. Does this mean it's a viable platform for the future, despite problems at launch? 100% absolutely.

And for the record, I think the Rev is going to do much more damage to the PS3 than the 360 ever has a chance to. It seems to me like the Rev is aimed straight at the family game system market, the PS3 is aimed squarely at the hardcore gamer and videophile, and the 360 is in the middle, with Live on one side and 720p on the other.

You could make the argument, "apprentice at many, master of none" (or however that goes) but I feel that the fact that the 360 is moving not only units but tons of games, makes that pretty much moot at this point.

Great post.

 

[monkeymagic]

My point was, if Konami releases it for x360 during the world cup and PS3 is not available in Europe at this time, expect amazing x360 sales this summer. I'm pretty sure even PS2 owners would make the jump.

I would disagree.

WE11/PES6 will be available on PS2, XBox and X360.

There won't be a truly next gen version built from the ground up for X360/PS3 until PS3 is out.

By then I can see the majority of PS2 owning players moving to the PS3 version.

I know I will.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

You may have not taken PS2 into consideration either. Im willing to bet my house that World cup 06 will sell much better on PS2 then it will on Xbox360.

100 million userbase versus 1.7-2million. No shit. But in the context of "next-gen", the X360 will have no competitor (other than high end PC's) that can match its graphics capabilities. However, I would take the PS2 version of the latest Winning Eleven over a polished, boring EA FIFA on X360. XBOX 360 Winning Eleven = THE WINNER!!! Make it happen Konami!

 

[fortified_concept]

The Xbox 360 will do fine before it's all over with, and I'd bet on it significantly outselling Nintendo's console.

Well if NOE continues to be the shit company it is, I bet it will. Microsoft treated europeans like kings and still had a hard fight with GC. If NOE remains the same, I hope they crash and burn. Europeans are morons for putting up with such dipshits, all that time.

 

[borghe]

a question about theis mysterious X360 attachrate.....

I don't think it is difficult to argue that most of the people who picked up a 360 at launch were the hardest of the hardcore. I mean probably 97% of the people either pre-ordered the console 6+ months in advance or stood in line early enough to be one of the first 20-40 people at the store. In other words, everyone who got an x360 during the launch period that accounted for that 4 game attach rate REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted a system.

So here is where the question comes in. Who thinks it is possible that had the XBox met demand a little better and more "less hardcore" people were able to buy, that it would have had a lower attach rate.

And on that same theory, how much do you think stores that had ridiculous 4 and 10 game bundles ONLY affected that number as well.

Sorry, the 4 game attach rate kind of sticks me as odd when there is only one game at launch that interests me. Not saying other people might not find a few games in there, but really the best that can be said about the launch lineup is "there are a bunch of ok games". Just find it odd that with a selection of mostly mediocre at best games it has the highest attach rate in the history of gaming. wondering if there is more to it than meets the eye.

 

[fortified_concept]

You may have not taken PS2 into consideration either. Im willing to bet my house that World cup 06 will sell much better on PS2 then it will on Xbox360.

Even comparing the two is wrong...

 

[Speevy]

Sorry, the 4 game attach rate kind of sticks me as odd when there is only one game at launch that interests ME.

.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I would disagree.

WE11/PES6 will be available on PS2, XBox and X360.

There won't be a truly next gen version built from the ground up for X360/PS3 until PS3 is out..

As of last September, Konami said that the next gen WE would be out a year later. By that time the PS3 will be on the market in atleast Japan, which is where the game is going to launch first anyway. I'd imagine the reason we didn't see them even attempt a next gen WE already is because they'd building it on the PS3.

 

[monkeymagic]

At this point you might be better off sticking with the Xbox 360 controller, regardless of what console you buy. Maybe get an adapter?

Nope - DS2 is perfect for WE/PES. Unless the DS3 feels the same I won't be using it or any other controller for this game.

And for the record, I think the Rev is going to do much more damage to the PS3 than the 360 ever has a chance to. It seems to me like the Rev is aimed straight at the family game system market, the PS3 is aimed squarely at the hardcore gamer and videophile, and the 360 is in the middle, with Live on one side and 720p on the other.

PS3 will cater to the hardcore gamer and family gamer equally well.

Just like PS2.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Yes I am. The 360 sold a similar amount in its first month compared to the most successful console ever (PS2). Sure the PS2 would have sold more if there were more units available and it launched worldwide, but it didn't.

I remember the PS2 selling over a million units in the first weekend or something. How much did the X360 sell in its first weekend?

 

[Speevy]

Nope - DS2 is perfect for WE/PES. Unless the DS3 feels the same I won't be using it or any other controller.

I was under the impression that the PS3 wasn't backward compatible with its controllers. I guess I was mistaken.

PS3 will cater to the hardcore gamer and family gamer equally well.

Just like PS2.

I thought I was the one getting paid for promotion.

 

[marc^o^]

Nope - DS2 is perfect for WE/PES. Unless the DS3 feels the same I won't be using it or any other controller.

PS3 will cater to the hardcore gamer and family gamer equally well.

Just like PS2.

Don't think so. For two reasons: 1) PS3 price (console, games); 2) Revolution focus on family gamer.

This is the reason why I say PS3 won't sell as much as PS2. Casual gamers will go to Nintendo next gen.

 

[psycho_snake]

100 million userbase versus 1.7-2million. No shit. But in the context of "next-gen", the X360 will have no competitor (other than high end PC's) that can match its graphics capabilities. However, I would take the PS2 version of the latest Winning Eleven over a polished, boring EA FIFA on X360. XBOX 360 Winning Eleven = THE WINNER!!! Make it happen Konami!

Im in the same boat as you. Those who have played Pro Evo/ WE will know that EA's Fifa is shit.

WE on Xbox360 would be grand, but by that time there is a chance that PS3 will have been released in Japan, so then it will be released on both consoles at the same time. Even if WE Xbox360 was released first in NA, im not sure how well it could sell since soccer isnt popular in NA, but it could be the key to MS's success in Europe. WE is the most popular game in the UK and probably most of Europe. If WE was released first on Xbox360 it could seriously give MS a huge hand in Europe and take some of Sony's marketshare.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

a question about theis mysterious X360 attachrate.....

I don't think it is difficult to argue that most of the people who picked up a 360 at launch were the hardest of the hardcore. I mean probably 97% of the people either pre-ordered the console 6+ months in advance or stood in line early enough to be one of the first 20-40 people at the store. In other words, everyone who got an x360 during the launch period that accounted for that 4 game attach rate REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted a system.

So here is where the question comes in. Who thinks it is possible that had the XBox met demand a little better and more "less hardcore" people were able to buy, that it would have had a lower attach rate.

And on that same theory, how much do you think stores that had ridiculous 4 and 10 game bundles ONLY affected that number as well.

Sorry, the 4 game attach rate kind of sticks me as odd when there is only one game at launch that interests me. Not saying other people might not find a few games in there, but really the best that can be said about the launch lineup is "there are a bunch of ok games". Just find it odd that with a selection of mostly mediocre at best games it has the highest attach rate in the history of gaming. wondering if there is more to it than meets the eye.

On December 18th and January 1st, well after the launch date, there were 2 highly publicized "re-launches" at Best Buy and Wal-Mart that had Mom's, Dad's, non-hardcore types camping out as if they were buying a tickle me Elmo. They, along with the many who bought them on EBAY, as well as other places have bought a ton of games.

 

[fortified_concept]

Don't think so. For two reasons: 1) PS3 price (console, games); 2) Revolution focus on family gamer.

This is the reason why I say PS3 won't sell as much as PS2. Casual gamers will go to Nintendo next gen.

How much do you think PS3 will cost?

 

[marc^o^]

If WE was released first on Xbox360 it could seriously give MS a huge hand in Europe and take some of Sony's marketshare.

Indeed. This world cup will be the first to be shot in 16/9 HD. People will notice this new format, believe me. Then they'll notice the same 16/9 HD format of PES on x360 in display stores. They'll want one. Impulse buy. They'll get one.

 

[marc^o^]

How much do you think PS3 will cost?

500€ with 70€ games in Europe. What's your own guess?

 

[Guy LeDouche]

I was under the impression that the PS3 wasn't backward compatible with its controllers. I guess I was mistaken.

It doesn't have PS2 controller ports, but if the USB support is fairly open in its support (kb+m for games already confirmed, unlike X360), then any old PS2 <> USB adapter should work, right?

 

[KeithFranklin]

MS really screwed the pooch. Those extra 100,000 that they sent to Japan would have locked down NA for the 360 over the PS3. Now there is no chance for the 360 in NA.

 

[fortified_concept]

500&#8364; with 70&#8364; games in Europe. What's your own guess?

400$ in USA. I don't know about Europe, but judging from PS2 initial prices, it seems europeans don't give a shit how it'll cost. I've heard insane PS2 launch prices in some european countries and it still had shortages for months.