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Fredescu · Jan 12, 2011

Keikoku said:
I don't know how to use it... when I open it with ruby it just opens a DOS window for like a second then nothing.

It's a text file. Check the OP. "Find your GAF brothers & sisters using Durante's similarity sheet. Thanks Durante!"

Amir0x · Jan 12, 2011

Keikoku said:
I don't know how to use it... when I open it with ruby it just opens a DOS window for like a second then nothing.

Veelk · Jan 12, 2011

Amir0x said:
But Alan Wake was wow. I honestly couldn't find much of anything to like. Every level felt the same, the gameplay was sub-par, the story was...yeah. Really bad. Just on every level it had questionable design. I was wondering if this was a symptom of the protracted development, dropped PC version, the change from open world to linear. But all i know is the end result is a sloppy game from start to finish.

Can you outline the problems you had with Alan Wake's story?

Keikoku · Jan 12, 2011

Fredescu said:
It's a text file. Check the OP. "Find your GAF brothers & sisters using Durante's similarity sheet. Thanks Durante!"

Oh, sorry guys, it seems like I downloaded the wrong file in the first place...

MushroomSamba · Jan 12, 2011

Amir0x said:
Nah, I thought LIMBO was ok - just ok - but had real fundamental problems with the trial and error gameplay. That is to say, it is made up in large part in traps and obstacles you literally cannot know are coming the first time you go through, and thus have to use subsequent lives and your newly gained knowledge of where the arbitrary traps are placed to progress.

I don't think that's true, at least not for the most part. I was able to see through a lot of the death traps on my first playthrough. I still died quite a bit either due to poor execution or because the game outsmarted me, but I never felt it was cheap or that I couldn't have possibly played it correctly on my first try. Whenever I'd die, I'd often think, "oh yeah, I probably should've seen that coming".

My only complaint with the game is that it should've stuck with the survival horror feel of the first half instead of going full puzzler later on in the game. Not that the puzzles were bad, it's just the first half was so damn amazing.

Amir0x · Jan 12, 2011

MushroomSamba said:
I don't think that's true, at least not for the most part. I was able to see through a lot of the death traps on my first playthrough. I still died quite a bit either due to poor execution or because the game outsmarted me, but I never felt it was cheap or that I couldn't have possibly played it correctly on my first try. Whenever I'd die, I'd often think, "oh yeah, I probably should've seen that coming".

My only complaint with the game is that it should've stuck with the survival horror feel of the first half instead of going full puzzler later on in the game. Not that the puzzles were bad, it's just the first half was so damn amazing.

There were many, many moments where the game almost explicitly REQUIRED you to die before you learned what arbitrary trap would kill you. In some instances, the game would teach you to do Y, and then immediately do X to you so that your conditioning forces a death.

I respect some people have no issues with trial-and-error gameplay, however, but I do. Also, since the game is over in 2 hours and has virtually no replay value, it's also a bad deal as far as I'm concerned.

DanteFox · Jan 12, 2011

I'm not a fan of the new scoring system, but I REALLY like all the stats you gave in the op. I don't recall previous GOTY threads showing so much information.

Guevara · Jan 12, 2011

For some reason I'm not on the similarity sheet?

Ashes · Jan 12, 2011

2010

1. Mass Effect 2 1302
10. Gran Turismo 5 373
20. Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light 204

2009

01 Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 1690
10 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 383
20 Mario and Luigi 3: Bowser's Inside Story 87

2008

1. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - 5210
10. Braid - 1334
20. The World Ends With You - 698

2007

1. Super Mario Galaxy - 5862
10. God of War 2 - 1414
20. Forza 2 - 473

2006

1. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - 2990
10. Viva Pinata - 484
20. Ghost Recon: Advance Warfighter - 198

2005

1. Resident Evil 4 - 1565
10. The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap - 238
19. Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories - 141
19. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - 141

2004

1. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - 613
10. Burnout 3: Takedown - 201
20. Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes - 76

So anyone want to comment on the distribution between the top 20? Apart from the no 10 game being usually awesome.

Fredescu · Jan 12, 2011

Ashes1396 said:
So anyone want to comment on the distribution between the top 20?

Not sure what you mean, but in 2004-2008 there were a lot more points on offer, and 2009 had a slightly different scoring system. I don't think it's quite so easy to draw comparisons between the years in terms of points.

timetokill · Jan 12, 2011

DanteFox said:
I don't recall previous GOTY threads showing so much information.

They didn't. Last year I started giving out more stats, and planned to do more this year. Then Cheesemeister's parser made it easy to do a wide variety of stats and gave time to collect more data. We'll be providing even more stuff next year based on what people like and ask for, as well as doing more direct statistical comparisons between years.

Ashes · Jan 12, 2011

Fredescu said:
Not sure what you mean, but in 2004-2008 there were a lot more points on offer, and 2009 had a slightly different scoring system. I don't think it's quite so easy to draw comparisons between the years in terms of points.

I meant in terms of the rule changes etc...

edit: love the stats btw timetokill. Excellent additions.

NullPointer · Jan 12, 2011

Amir0x said:
There were many, many moments where the game almost explicitly REQUIRED you to die before you learned what arbitrary trap would kill you. In some instances, the game would teach you to do Y, and then immediately do X to you so that your conditioning forces a death.

I respect some people have no issues with trial-and-error gameplay, however, but I do. Also, since the game is over in 2 hours and has virtually no replay value, it's also a bad deal as far as I'm concerned.

This'd be my Limbo gameplay review in a nutshell. Although what makes it annoying to play can make it hilarious to watch somebody else play - with the volume cranked to max. :lol

disappeared · Jan 12, 2011

Mass Effect 2? Really?

Amir0x · Jan 12, 2011

NullPointer said:
This'd be my Limbo gameplay review in a nutshell. Although what makes it annoying to play can make it hilarious to watch somebody else play - with the volume cranked to max. :lol

I didn't hate the game. Like I said, it was OK. I just was really kind of disappointed it sold better than other more deserving downloadable games, which were brimming with content, played better and had no pretensions about being something more.

It had a really compelling opening act, though. With the whole spider. Very memorable stuff.

Keikoku · Jan 12, 2011

Ashes1396 said:
...

:lol :lol :lol at MGS3 being 19th in 2005 but MGS4 1st in 2009. Best MGS game ever got robbed.

About Limbo, it was 2010's Flower for me. A game whose 90% of the qualities are in the production value. It doesn't mean the gameplay is bad by any means, just very simple. I thought the puzzles were pretty good though, nothing brilliant, but I had this feeling of doing something logical when I solved them.

theignoramus · Jan 12, 2011

Guevara said:
GAF cares more about story than game play sometimes.

the heavy rain votes repeatedly, and I mean repeatedly, included the caveat that the story was disjointed, unfocused or downright questionable.

Fredescu · Jan 12, 2011

Keikoku said:
:lol :lol :lol at MGS3 being 19th in 2005 but MGS4 1st in 2009. Best MGS game ever got robbed.

It was #1 in 2004. Ahead of Half Life 2 no less.

Ashes1396 said:
I meant in terms of the rule changes etc...

Do you care to comment on it? Do you see anything significant apart from raw numbers that could be attributed to rule changes?

Monocle · Jan 12, 2011

Fuck yes, GAF. You have better taste than I dared to hope

I swear I wrote that without politics on my mind

by putting Bayonetta in the top 5. And as much flak as ME2 gets for all its issues, I can't deny that I really enjoyed it. Not my personal GOTY, but a fine choice.

Keikoku · Jan 12, 2011

Fredescu said:
It was #1 in 2004. Ahead of Half Life 2 no less.

Oh, sorry about that, I forgot it came out in 2004 in the US... Eurape

The_Dude · Jan 12, 2011

Very happy to see Bayonetta get 4th place. Deserved 1st

, but I wasn't even expecting top 10 so it's still pretty good. Wish Donkey Kong Country was in the top 10. Don't really mind Mass Effect 2 getting 1st, even though it didn't quite make my personal top 10 and I would have preferred Red Dead Redemption out of the two.

Amir0x · Jan 12, 2011

theignoramus said:
the heavy rain votes repeatedly, and I mean repeatedly, included the caveat that the story was disjointed, unfocused or downright questionable.

which should immediately call everything into question. the game is only story :lol

MushroomSamba · Jan 12, 2011

Amir0x said:
There were many, many moments where the game almost explicitly REQUIRED you to die before you learned what arbitrary trap would kill you. In some instances, the game would teach you to do Y, and then immediately do X to you so that your conditioning forces a death.

I respect some people have no issues with trial-and-error gameplay, however, but I do. Also, since the game is over in 2 hours and has virtually no replay value, it's also a bad deal as far as I'm concerned.

Could you perhaps give a specific example? I'm honestly having trouble remembering anything like that. For me, most of the obstacles could be figured out without death if you were observant and quick on your feet (or fingers, I should say).

timetokill · Jan 12, 2011

MushroomSamba said:
Could you perhaps give a specific example? I'm honestly having trouble remembering anything like that. For me, most of the obstacles could be figured out without death if you were observant and quick on your feet (or fingers, I should say).

There's a pressure plate trap at the beginning of the game that pretty much requires you to die or have prior knowledge, if I'm not mistaken.

Amir0x · Jan 12, 2011

MushroomSamba said:
Could you perhaps give a specific example? I'm honestly having trouble remembering anything like that. For me, most of the obstacles could be figured out without death if you were observant and quick on your feet (or fingers, I should say).

easily, the one obstacle course where you got a button on the ground at one point and you get squished, and then immediately it puts the button in the place you just learned to avoid from the previous obstacles and you get squished again. The button is explicitly meant to blend in with the background so the literal only way to avoid it is sheer fucking luck. The game taught you to do X, before going ahead and doing Y in the very next moment. Some people defend this choice at some sorta meta commentary on game design, I just decide to think of it as annoyingly unappealing trial-and-error gameplay.

sprsk · Jan 12, 2011

Maybe I should play mass effect 2.

MushroomSamba · Jan 12, 2011

timetokill said:
There's a pressure plate trap at the beginning of the game that pretty much requires you to die or have prior knowledge, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, that one where you jump on the first pressure plate and it does something to advance you along, then the next one you jump on it instantly kills you? I remember something like that...yeah, I guess that'd fall under trial-and-error (although there might've been a cue in the environment that I missed).

Ashes · Jan 12, 2011

Fredescu said:
It was #1 in 2004. Ahead of Half Life 2 no less.

Do you care to comment on it? Do you see anything significant apart from raw numbers that could be attributed to rule changes?

Not really which is the point I was trying to make. I don't see what the big difference the rule changes made we we look at the whole thing hollistically. No 1 was going to be no1.

But then you look at this year's ten to 16...

10. Gran Turismo 5 373
11. Donkey Kong Country Returns 371
12. Assassin's Creed Brotherhood 371

13. Fallout: New Vegas 349

14. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 328
15. Alan Wake 325
16. Vanquish 325

There's something not quite right there. In the discussion thread, we thought this might happen. Vanquish was robbed btw!

Amir0x · Jan 12, 2011

there's another one later on where you're going really fast down a cart and you have some really annoyingly tiny window for the 'right' jump off it the game wants you to do

mescalineeyes · Jan 12, 2011

If you are in any way, shape or form responsible for Heavy Rain up there, please know that you are not a smart person. This is beyond being a question of taste.

It's ok, at least you get to enjoy all the entertainment product for you and your kind, but it is saddening that there is so many of you. Please watch a movie or read a book, there is still hope.

... I am just bitter that StarCraft 2 placed 2 positions behind HR, but damn.

NullPointer · Jan 12, 2011

mescalineeyes said:
If you are in any way, shape or form responsible for Heavy Rain up there, please know that you are not a smart person. This is beyond being a question of taste.

It's ok, at least you get to enjoy all the entertainment product for you and your kind, but it is saddening that there is so many of you. Please watch a movie or read a book, there is still hope.

Yeah, well, your favorite band sucks.

kamspy · Jan 12, 2011

Should Mass Effect 2 even be nominated as an RPG?

The only bigger disappointment than Mass Effect 2 was Mass Effect 2 winning GAF GOTY.

MushroomSamba · Jan 12, 2011

Amir0x said:
there's another one later on where you're going really fast down a cart and you have some really annoyingly tiny window for the 'right' jump off it the game wants you to do

I think I know which one you're talking about...I wouldn't consider that particular part trial-and-error though. That's just reflexes. If we're thinking of the same one, I survived that my first try. When you're going downhill in a cart that fast, you gotta be prepared for things to go wrong real quick.

DrForester · Jan 12, 2011

166. Final Fantasy XI: Scars of Abyssea 6
190. Final Fantasy XIV 5

Amir0x · Jan 12, 2011

MushroomSamba said:
I think I know which one you're talking about...I wouldn't consider that particular part trial-and-error though. That's just reflexes. If we're thinking of the same one, I survived that my first try. When you're going downhill in a cart that fast, you gotta be prepared for things to go wrong real quick.

it's not reflexes. There's actually an extremely tiny, COMPLETELY undefined window for which your jump will actually work. It's not based on any other momentum jump you've done to date, and you have to feel at it until you magically hit the right window.

markao · Jan 12, 2011

Awesome amount of data, thx for all the work guys!

One question; Why is ME2, PC and XBox 360 GOTY, how do you know, do multi platforms even count? So should that not be Reach and SC2, or am I missing something?

iconoclast · Jan 12, 2011

I don't have a problem with the trial-and-error aspects of Limbo. I had more fun replaying it to get the "die less than 5 times" achievement, since at that point it just comes down to being able to perform the tasks consistently instead of figuring them out.

Not that I think Limbo is particularly great or anything, but it was good enough for the $10 I paid for it.

Augemitbutter · Jan 12, 2011

good job on the thread.

remove ME2 and the list will be viable.

at least gaf saved face by voting MGS: PW best handheld game. surprised to see bayonetta so high up there, i'm happy people took notice. it was one of my goty for 2009.

MushroomSamba · Jan 12, 2011

Amir0x said:
it's not reflexes. There's actually an extremely tiny, COMPLETELY undefined window for which your jump will actually work. It's not based on any other momentum jump you've done to date, and you have to feel at it until you magically hit the right window.

Okay, maybe I'm thinking of a different one then. You're not talking about that downward cart ride that ends in a spike pitfall (or maybe it was a water pitfall), where you have to jump and grab onto a dangling rope or something? It leads to a platform where you then have to jump off and hit a switch midway down to turn on the gravity machine?

user_nat · Jan 12, 2011

Shouldn't ME2 also be shooter of the year?

Good to finally pick the winner though.

SpacePirate Ridley · Jan 12, 2011

What a great work guys, just fantastic reading all the info.

Really love the similarities list thing.

Code:

$$SpacePirate Ridley
Users with similar selection to SpacePirate Ridley:
  1.              EatChildren (  114) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=17#801 ]
  2.                  samoset (  102) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=8#365 ]
  3.                   Amir0x (   98) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=1#4 ]
  4.                 radcliff (   97) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=26#1296 ]
  5.                      GWX (   95) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=6#285 ]
  6.                Kurashima (   93) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=21#1031 ]
  7.                  Haunted (   93) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=20#968 ]
  8.            Zeouterlimits (   92) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=19#934 ]
  9.             NonexistentK (   92) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=18#882 ]
 10.              Nex Superne (   92) [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416386&page=1#46 ]

Thats why I like to usually read EatChildren's post it seems :lol

kamspy · Jan 12, 2011

Can someone run that comparison thing on my user name? Ruby thing isn't opening for me.

timetokill · Jan 12, 2011

kamspy said:
Can someone run that comparison thing on my user name? Ruby thing isn't opening for me.

Download the text file in the OP. You don't need to run the ruby script anymore.

Guevara · Jan 12, 2011

timetokill said:
Download the text file in the OP. You don't need to run the ruby script anymore.

I can't find my name in the text file. Would anyone be willing to confirm? I listed less than 10 games if that matters.

theignoramus · Jan 12, 2011

Amir0x said:
which should immediately call everything into question. the game is only story :lol

people like the roller coaster aspect of it, like the Dr. Death or highway sets for example.

timetokill · Jan 12, 2011

Guevara said:
I can't find my name in the text file. Would anyone be willing to confirm? I listed less than 10 games if that matters.

Looking at it now, it looks like your votes were not tallied because they weren't numbered. (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25007804&postcount=538)

Fredescu · Jan 12, 2011

Guevara said:
I can't find my name in the text file. Would anyone be willing to confirm? I listed less than 10 games if that matters.

You're not in the original data file either as far as I can tell.

Alts · Jan 12, 2011

timetokill said:
Looking at it now, it looks like your votes were not tallied because they weren't numbered.

recount!

Solo · Jan 12, 2011

swoon · Jan 12, 2011

mescalineeyes said:
If you are in any way, shape or form responsible for Heavy Rain up there, please know that you are not a smart person. This is beyond being a question of taste.

It's ok, at least you get to enjoy all the entertainment product for you and your kind, but it is saddening that there is so many of you. Please watch a movie or read a book, there is still hope.

... I am just bitter that StarCraft 2 placed 2 positions behind HR, but damn.

i mean i like giallo movies and they have more plot holes than heavy rain. it doesn't really matter.

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