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[The Cockatrice]

Thought this article was quite spot on https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...tion-loop-with-its-new-shows/?sh=71837b9a78c3

A couple weeks ago, I remarked that Netflix now felt like it was “actively stealing time from me.” I can almost not even remember which cancelation I was talking about at the time, given that there have been so many, but I believe it was 1899, the new show from the creators of Dark, which like Dark, was set up as part of 3-season arc.

Naturally, it was cancelled on a cliffhanger after a single season because it didn’t attract enough viewership or have enough people finish all the episodes in some arbitrary stretch of time.

But what’s happened now is that this has happened so often with so many shows, that Netflix has created a self-fulfilling loop with many series that probably could have gone on to become valuable catalogue additions otherwise.

The idea is that since you know that Netflix cancels so many shows after one or two seasons, ending them on cliffhangers and leaving their storylines unfinished, it’s almost not worth investing in a show until it’s already ended, and you know it’s going to have a coherent ending and finished arc. So you hold off watching new shows, even ones you might otherwise be interested in, because you’re afraid Netflix will cancel them.

Pretty much agree especially with that last bit. Netflix relies heavily on everyone watching their shows as fast as possible or they just say fuck it. Dumb and garbage shows attract these kinds of people more than the more creative ones which is why good shit gets cancelled and dumb shit gets renewed. Of course I'm one of the people that now wait before watching something because, whats the point if Netflix decides to cancel it? Should Netflix just start doing weekly stuff? Daily stuff? Should they just wait 6 months at least before deciding whether a show gets cancelled or not? Either way they need to change the way they do things if they want to stay relevant imo. The other stream giants are catching up.

 

[k_trout]

Netflix now felt like it was “actively stealing time from me.”

we are actively giving our time to Netflix, turn it off and go do something else

 

[The Cockatrice]

Netflix now felt like it was “actively stealing time from me.”

we are actively giving our time to Netflix, turn it off and go do something else

So in order for Netflix to improve, everyone should stop watching Netflix and do something else. Amazing idea.

 

[Drew1440]

Maybe I'm part of the problem, I usually wait until there's a season 2 before I jump into a Netflix show because so many get canned after the first.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Yeah no shit. You can't make several new shows, cancel them once people get invested, then make more new shows and then act surprised when nobody watched and got invested.


They have no fucking idea what they are doing and their god awful management in the past 3 years has sealed its fate. It had a supremacy and yet still lost out over a newcomer like Disney+ not because its better, but because they completely fucked themselves into a hole over its own content.

 

[Azurro]

Yeah no shit. You can't make several new shows, cancel them once people get invested, then make more new shows and then act surprised when nobody watched and got invested.


They have no fucking idea what they are doing and their god awful management in the past 3 years has sealed its fate. It had a supremacy and yet still lost out over a newcomer like Disney+ not because its better, but because they completely fucked themselves into a hole over its own content.

Disney+ isn't exactly doing great either, it has lost Disney billions and they count users in a funky way.

Anyway, on topic, I've subscribed to Netflix for many years now, but their throw shit at the wall and see what sticks model makes it difficult to choose something to watch. They should incorporate more user ratings into their funding calculation or at least give it more importance.

 

[LegendOfKage]

It would be the easiest thing in the world to announce that going forward ALL programs will have closure, even if it's a couple episodes or a movie after an unsuccessful season. No idea why that sort of thing has never been done yet.

 

[Meicyn]

Marco Polo was the first of several shows that I got invested in only for Netflix to pull the plug without resolving the storylines. So now, I rarely will start a show until it gets several seasons under its belt. Good example was Ozark, didn’t jump in until season 4 hit.

 

[Husky]

Is Paul Tassi the only pop culture contributor for Forbes? I don't mind. But as soon as I saw this was a Forbes article, I knew it must be from Paul Tassi.

I want The OA back

 

[gaming_again]

Not just Netflix. I really got into Treadstone on Amazon Prime and of course it only lasted a single season.

Kinda feels as though the wheels are coming if the TV streaming goldrush.

 

[newtypepilot]

Netflix has no idea what they are doing. They literally throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. And for things that do stick, they just end up replacing the wall.

The same minds that thought greenlighting Cuties was a good idea.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I think we have long passed the point of complete content saturation - there is simply too much content around. Companies should hold back and really develop multi-season contained shows right from the start instead of doing 100 S1 shows, then cancelling 95 of them.

I never watch Netflix (my wife does), if I have to pick the most worthy streaming service it would probably be Apple TV+ or something lol.

 

[nush]

Maybe I'm part of the problem, I usually wait until there's a season 2 before I jump into a Netflix show because so many get canned after the first.

I've been like that for more than a decade with TV shows. There were cancellations of promising stuff all the time. I'll jump in at 2-3 seasons even if everyone is saying it's great becuse I don't want to get left hanging.

 

[The Cockatrice]

It would be the easiest thing in the world to announce that going forward ALL programs will have closure

We have that already. They're called mini-series but for some reason Netflix is afraid of that word because they know if its a huge success they'll have to milk it.

 

[Lasha]

So in order for Netflix to improve, everyone should stop watching Netflix and do something else. Amazing idea.

Companies generally only change when customers speak with their wallets. You would see massive change at Netflix If everybody cancelled with a message bitching about show cancellations then read books for a few months. Netflix has no reason to change if you keep watching something.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Companies generally only change when customers speak with their wallets. You would see massive change at Netflix If everybody cancelled with a message bitching about show cancellations then read books for a few months. Netflix has no reason to change if you keep watching something.

Thats an impossible task. We cant control masses of people. Theres always going to be consumers which is why dumb shows get renewed. If anything stopping will just force Netflix to dish out only garbage shows.

 

[GymWolf]

If i'm interested in something i just watch the damn thing without asking myself if there is gonna be a second or third season.

Am i part of the problem?

 

[Lasha]

Thats an impossible task. We cant control masses of people. Theres always going to be consumers which is why dumb shows get renewed. If anything stopping will just force Netflix to dish out only garbage shows.

Garbage shows for its paying audience which you will no longer be a member. What impetus does Netflix have to change if you are giving them money? Especially if a cadre of "consumers" exists that is happy with the current product.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Garbage shows for its paying audience which you will no longer be a member. What impetus does Netflix have to change if you are giving them money? Especially if a cadre of "consumers" exists that is happy with the current product.

Theres things they can try that will satisfy their needs as well as ours. Us just stopping to watch shows and movies is not a good idea. I mean what else should we do? Should we all just go outside and stare at the sky until corporations whether its netflix or gaming related, give us good products? They have the money to keep making good stuff, that is not an issue, they just dont bother unless that show reaches some idiotic view count in a month. They think short plan, not long plan. HBO never had this issue and they are still on the market.

 

[6502]

100% correct. I won't watch new shows, even if they look great, until it is very far into the run so I know I am not wasting my time.

 

[Lasha]

Theres things they can try that will satisfy their needs as well as ours. Us just stopping to watch shows and movies is not a good idea. I mean what else should we do? Should we all just go outside and stare at the sky until corporations whether its netflix or gaming related, give us good products? They have the money to keep making good stuff, that is not an issue, they just dont bother unless that show reaches some idiotic view count in a month. They think short plan, not long plan. HBO never had this issue and they are still on the market.

Netflix's financial ability to produce shows was not in question. Why should Netflix change approaches to satisfy you if you don't cancel your subscription? Why would you pay for a product if you do not think it good? I would cancel my Netflix and subscribe to HBO if I were you since you find HBO better. Or I would do something else other than watching movies and shows that I don't like.

 

[Kilau]

 

[The Cockatrice]

Netflix's financial ability to produce shows was not in question. Why should Netflix change approaches to satisfy you if you don't cancel your subscription? Why would you pay for a product if you do not think it good? I would cancel my Netflix and subscribe to HBO if I were you since you find HBO better. Or I would do something else other than watching movies and shows that I don't like.

Because they make good products and then cancel them. How am I supposed to know whether a show will get canned or not? Thats the issue. If they made only shit stuff, sure Id cancel, but they do put out some great shit and then whenever their dicks fall off, they decide to cancel it.

 

[Lasha]

Because they make good products and then cancel them. How am I supposed to know whether a show will get canned or not? Thats the issue. If they made only shit stuff, sure Id cancel, but they do put out some great shit and then whenever their dicks fall off, they decide to cancel it.

Cancel and only resubscribe when something you enjoy gets completed. Or just accept good but unfinished shows for what they are. Netflix will not change when people subscribe and watch shows.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Cancel and only resubscribe when something you enjoy gets completed. Or just accept good but unfinished shows for what they are. Netflix will not change when people subscribe and watch shows.

I say they should drop the whole full release thing and go for a middle ground. An episode per day or something similar. Keep viewers engaged but dont overwhelm them. I noticed that when you binge shit you just move on as fast compared to something that releases weekly and ppl always talk about it and gets more people interested but weekly is also a bit too long, waiting for 5 months for a show to end is tiresome. This is what I mean by changing things up for the better. There are many ways they can keep me subscribed and not cancel shows and still get views/income. Users cancelling and waiting for a show to end completely until its safe to watch is not that great.

 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Maybe we should go back to episodic content. Stuff like Rockford Files, Murder She Wrote, and Knight Rider. CBS still does this, and still has an audience.

Though to be honest, when people bring this up all the time about Netflix canceling shows. They act like this is a now problem, when this has been a thing forever with TV shows being prematurely canceled. I guess it hurts more when it’s serialized storytelling.

 

[Winter John]

I was done when they cancelled Mindhunter. Learned my lesson there. Since then the first thing I do is check how many seasons a show had. I ain't going to waste my time watching something that ends on an unintentional cliff hanger because it got cancelled.

 

[gaming_again]

Maybe we should go back to episodic content. Stuff like Rockford Files, Murder She Wrote, and Knight Rider. CBS still does this, and still has an audience.

Though to be honest, when people bring this up all the time about Netflix canceling shows. They act like this is a now problem, when this has been a thing forever with TV shows being prematurely canceled. I guess it hurts more when it’s serialized storytelling.

I mean episodic shows a lot. When I first watched DS9 I thought long session arcs were revolutionary. But it’s too much now.

 

[TheMan]

Problem is that Netflix only makes money with new subs, that’s it. So unlike network TV that can leverage a growing audience to increase ad revenue, Netflix has see those numbers come up and giving a fledgling show time to grow only drains cash.

That said now they have people wary to sub cause shows will get canceled suddenly on a cliffhanger

Tough spot

 

[Mr Hyde]

I'm pretty much done with shows, regardless of streaming service, and cancellations are a big part of it. Why should I care when Netflix or HBO doesn't give a fuck about their own content? I only watch movies and documentaries because at least those have a beginning, middle and end.

 

[jason10mm]

This is partly a Netflix view shop algorithm model (I.e. They know EXACTLY when you stop watching and can predict with a high degree of precision the amount of viewer engagement going forward, to a degree tje Nielsens NEVER could) and partly an overly pretentious writer problem, where they set up mystery boxes all over the place and think that viewers will hang in for 15 hours of backstory to explain why a C roll side character cried when the package in the shoebox the character that died in the opening scene turned out to be a cracker jack box from the 50's.

Good grief people, get to the point, write every season as if it could be your last, and respect the damned audience!

 

[gaming_again]

At least Reacher, which is amazing, promises to not end on a cliffhanger each season.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Wow there’s a name for this : The Firefly effect

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheFireflyEffect

The Firefly Effect refers to viewers being afraid of committing to a new series because they don't believe the series will last long enough to make up for the investment of time and emotions. "The network is just going to cancel this, so I'm not giving it my heart." If enough viewers think this way towards a particular TV series, it may become a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy—people don't watch because they think the show will be canceled, and then the show is cancelled because no one is watching it.

 

[Spyxos]

The only good show that Netflix cancelled was Marco Polo, everything else was just mediocre.

 

[thefool]

I think its simpler. Garbage, eventually, slides to where it belongs. To the bin.

 

[Lasha]

I say they should drop the whole full release thing and go for a middle ground. An episode per day or something similar. Keep viewers engaged but dont overwhelm them. I noticed that when you binge shit you just move on as fast compared to something that releases weekly and ppl always talk about it and gets more people interested but weekly is also a bit too long, waiting for 5 months for a show to end is tiresome. This is what I mean by changing things up for the better. There are many ways they can keep me subscribed and not cancel shows and still get views/income. Users cancelling and waiting for a show to end completely until its safe to watch is not that great.

Cancelling is not great for Netflix. It's the only recourse an individual customer has to send a message.

Maybe we should go back to episodic content. Stuff like Rockford Files, Murder She Wrote, and Knight Rider. CBS still does this, and still has an audience.

Though to be honest, when people bring this up all the time about Netflix canceling shows. They act like this is a now problem, when this has been a thing forever with TV shows being prematurely canceled. I guess it hurts more when it’s serialized storytelling.

At least shows that would never see the light of day get made compared to the conservative days of cable/network television.

 

[AJUMP23]

I prefer their tv movies over most of their shows.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

 

[Stitch]

This isn't just a Netflix problem. Lots of Shows get cancelled. Watched the first season of Raised by Wolves. Was weird, but pretty cool, season 2 came out and it was cancelled.. I didn't even watch Season 2 anymore

 

[Punished Miku]

It's not a new problem. Most shows I was into get cancelled early, like Farscape, Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Stargate whatever the other one was, Caprica, Outlaw Star, and tons of others.

Netflix has 100x more user data than traditional TV ratings. If they don't think its worth it to pay for a show, I just assume they have a reason.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I think a problem is saturation.

I shared a sub plan with my brother for years. I stopped now since I got a stream box now.

I don’t have HBO. Last time I had it was about 15 years ago.

But aside from some big name shows like Stranger Things or Ozark I’d say I know more about and hear about HBO stuff more than the million NF tv series or NF special series.

NF is so big they shotgun a million things and sees what sticks. Not saying every HBO show is a long series success but it seems (I think???) the avg HBO series probably gets more support and focus so it has a better chance of succeeding.

 

[jason10mm]

It's not a new problem. Most shows I was into get cancelled early, like Farscape, Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Stargate whatever the other one was, Caprica, Outlaw Star, and tons of others.

You might have inflated expectations. Farscape got 4 seasons, Stargate SG-1 got 10(?), Atlantis went for 5, Stargate Universe got 2 (RIP LT "I can fill out a tight shirt"...),

Caprica and Outlaw Star are the only 1 season shows on your list, hard to say a show that gets 3+ seasons is cancelled "early" IMHO.

 

[SlimySnake]

The irony is that Netflix was the one that made shows like Breaking Bad and Mad Men popular. For the first 2-3 seasons those shows had shit ratings on AMC but AMC didnt care about the ratings because it knew the quality is what matters and that the audience would eventually come. Netflix let viewers binge watch the first three seasons and by Season 4, the show was a huge hit on AMC.

The streaming model just doesnt work. HBO had no problems with Westworld being expensive until HBO Max came around and they wasted all their money on streaming trash throwing away their previously high tier standards. Now theyve found themselves in billions of debt and have to cut corners everywhere prematurely ending shows like Westworld which is only going to hurt the faith their audience has in them.

 

[Punished Miku]

The irony is that Netflix was the one that made shows like Breaking Bad and Mad Men popular. For the first 2-3 seasons those shows had shit ratings on AMC but AMC didnt care about the ratings because it knew the quality is what matters and that the audience would eventually come. Netflix let viewers binge watch the first three seasons and by Season 4, the show was a huge hit on AMC.

The streaming model just doesnt work. HBO had no problems with Westworld being expensive until HBO Max came around and they wasted all their money on streaming trash throwing away their previously high tier standards. Now theyve found themselves in billions of debt and have to cut corners everywhere prematurely ending shows like Westworld which is only going to hurt the faith their audience has in them.

But they have to have like 1000x more data now that its streaming. Maybe previously they just didn't know? Now they can see exactly what people watch, for how long, if they ever come back to it, and what they watch instead.

 

[Hardensoul]

Disappointed 1889 cancelled too, only watched because I love Dark. I’ve got to the point where I don’t watch any new shows release by Netflix because of the cancellations after 1 season.

I just mostly watch my Asian shows and other foreign shows. Korean shows especially since most of the stories are are contained and finish in one season. But you get the outliers like Kingdom getting multiple seasons because it’s became so popular.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Korean shows especially since most of the stories are are contained and finish in one season

Same. They're also better.

 

[H4ze]

They should create way less new shows and finish them while providing porn as a substitute, so people would still keep their subscription.
I am a genius, I know

 

[Hardensoul]

I think we have long passed the point of complete content saturation - there is simply too much content around. Companies should hold back and really develop multi-season contained shows right from the start instead of doing 100 S1 shows, then cancelling 95 of them.

I never watch Netflix (my wife does), if I have to pick the most worthy streaming service it would probably be Apple TV+ or something lol.

I got Apple TV through bundle there’s not much that can interest me. I’m just not watching it. But For All Man Kind started great but I lost interest. Foundation looked great but it was just bad imo.

Amazon Prime had some good shows but that UI sucks. Only watch due to bonus because of the online shopping.

 

[DeepEnigma]

People are almost figuring out the laundering grift.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Friendly reminder they also charge a premium for 4k and hdr which to my knowledge no other streaming service does. Fuck em.