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[Mrbob]

Halo invented the good console control scheme for FPS gaming.

Now that I think about it, Halo and Halo 2 are still the only two next gen console FPS games I ever owned (Or will own soon in the case of Holla 2). For the most part, I hate control schemes with FPS console games. Still do. Halo nailed it down right, though. Only one I don't have a problem with. Although I won't argue that a better control scheme would be on the PC.

 

[SantaC]

Sorry but the Prime control scheme sucked. Flat out. Did it keep me from enjoying the game? No. The control scheme was functional. That doesn't mean there is no reason to try to make it more natural feeling though.

I think the controls were perfect.

 

[Minotauro]

I think the controls were perfect.

Who would've guessed it?

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Halo invented the good console control scheme for FPS gaming.

Now that I think about it, Halo and Halo 2 are still the only two next gen console FPS games I ever owned (Or will own soon in the case of Holla 2). For the most part, I hate control schemes with FPS console games. Still due. Halo nailed it down right, though. Only one I don't have a problem with. Although I won't argue that a better control scheme would be on the PC.

What do you use, Default, Legacy, or South paw?

 

[Mrbob]

One thing that makes Halo so great is the interaction with enemy AI. When you change skill levels it also adjust the tenacity and smarts of enemy AI within the game. And the games battles feel different and flow slightly differently when you are playing on Heroic versus Legendary. Halo 2 supposedly takes this concept to the next level. With the lock on control scheme Metroid Prime and part two limit the amount of replayability you can get from smarter AI interaction and practically makes the game more of a one and done experience.

What do you use, Default, Legacy, or South paw?

Reply | Quote | Edit/Del

*

Usually default with an inverted Y axis. But that is only part of the story. Much of what makes Halo great is the weapon limitations it places on the user. Not only is smart, but it is functional for the fast paced action. One thing I absolutely loathe in console FPS games are ones that give you 12 weapons to use but you have to use the Dpad to cycle through each weapon one by one to get to the one you want. Limiting the choices to two helps out in the quick select process. If you want to give us 12 weapons to use, fine. Go for it. But give us a much better method to choose them! Rip off Ratchet and Clank and use the quick select weapon scheme Insomniac employs! Quick, easy, and painless!

 

[bishoptl]

Hey, Bish how far did you get in MP?

As far as getting the x-ray visor. I then said "to hell with this" and traded it in for credit.

As far as 5 million folks lovin' the Halo control scheme, more power to 'em. I say. Doesn't mean that it could have used some work...despite that, it still shit all over MP's controls from a great height.

 

[D2M15]

ill just wait for EDGE......

BUT EDGE IS BIAST

 

[dark10x]

What problems did you have with the Prime control scheme? That's what I don't understand...

Did you want to look around while moving? Yeah, that would be nice...but I dealt with it in games like GTA3 and Maximo, so it wasn't a huge deal.

The lock-on made combat very easy, for the most part, so I don't see how you would have had issues surviving.

 

[COCKLES]

Metroid isn't even on the same plane of existance as GTA / Halo - what Prime is doing in that top ten is frankly, an insult to Rockstar & Bungie.

What makes GTA / Halo so great?

Randomness of gameplay.

No two games of GTA / Halo will ever be the same. Halo 2 proves that, playing through the same levels, you get so many different occurances of events each time you play that assure you'll be replaying long, long after your've finished it

Now I don't know about Echoes, but Prime was a scripted, NES 80's game dynamic joke. Really this is 2004 - do we really want to go back to enemies that respawn as soon as you enter the room? Where bodies magically vanish into the ether? 2D gameplay works when it's 2D...keep Metroid 2D.

Gaming has moved on. It's about time Nintendo did as well. They should thank their lucky stars (and I'm basing this on Prime) that Echoes got rated as well as it did.

Don't weep tears for Nintendo. Weep for the great games in that list like Fatal Frame 2 that will go overlooked this year.

 

[Acrylamid]

Amazing that a thread about games getting such superb scores would reach 400 posts.

But the scores are not as superb as they could have been...
The November NPD thread will be insane.

 

[Mike Works]

Ha, why are you people taking bishoptl's opinion seriously? This is a man who continually professes his love for Metal Gear Solid, a game where you can't even SEE who you're aiming at half the time, while you aim with a LOCK ON TARGET! Hell, he said he's going to buy a PSP just so he can play a fucking MGS CARD GAME! A CARD GAME!

He has no credibility on the matter, you dipshits should've figured this one out by now. Now COCKLES, there is a man whose opinion on Metroid vs Halo you can trust.

What makes GTA / Halo so great?

Randomness of gameplay.

Halo's randomness of gameplay WAS great. Sometimes the grunts would run around a rock for cover counter clockwise instead of clockwise!

 

[bishoptl]

dark10x, you gotta understand where I'm coming from. Pretty well all of the Nintendo titles I'd played up until MP were incredibly intuitive. Easy to pick up and play and get into, even with that doofus controller. The control quality cratered with MP, to the point where I just gave up on it. I'll play the PC port if they ever get around to one.

 

[satterfield]

I think what people are going to have to realize is that Prime 2, Halo 2, and San Andreas are all on par as far as quality and fun is concerned. But the fact that Halo 2 has an online multiplayer mode that people will be playing (literally) for years to come and San Andreas is just monstrously huge makes it difficult for anyone to give Prime 2 the same scores -- even if it's just as good as Metroid Prime. Yes, Prime 2 has split screen multiplayer, but it can't touch 16 players duking it out in Halo 2 on Xbox Live. The fact that San Andreas is so freaking huge and just about everything in it has been done predominantly well makes it hard to score lower than Prime 2 as well.

In the end, who cares? All three are well worth having under the Christmas tree, and it's not like any of these games were going to change the landscape of the market -- no matter how good or bad they were. Buy these games, play them, and love them. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing/thinking.

 

[duderon]

Metroid isn't even on the same plane of existance as GTA / Halo - what Prime is doing in that top ten is frankly, an insult to Rockstar & Bungie.

What makes GTA / Halo so great?

Randomness of gameplay.

No two games of GTA / Halo will ever be the same. Halo 2 proves that, playing through the same levels, you get so many different occurances of events each time you play that assure you'll be replaying long, long after your've finished it

Now I don't know about Echoes, but Prime was a scripted, NES 80's game dynamic joke. Really this is 2004 - do we really want to go back to enemies that respawn as soon as you enter the room? Where bodies magically vanish into the ether? 2D gameplay works when it's 2D...keep Metroid 2D.

Gaming has moved on. It's about time Nintendo did as well. They should thank their lucky stars (and I'm basing this on Prime) that Echoes got rated as well as it did.

Don't weep tears for Nintendo. Weep for the great games in that list like Fatal Frame 2 that will go overlooked this year.

Ugh. They are all different types of games that have their pros and cons. Yes i would venture to say (even though i've only played the demo of Echoes) that GTA:SA and Halo 2 are a little better of an experience, but not on the same plane of existance? Hell no. The games all hold their own, and everyone should go out and play them all.

 

[sprsk]

metroid ds>>prime 2 echoes

 

[radioheadrule83]

As far as getting the x-ray visor. I then said "to hell with this" and traded it in for credit.

As far as 5 million folks lovin' the Halo control scheme, more power to 'em. I say. Doesn't mean that it could have used some work...despite that, it still shit all over MP's controls from a great height.

That you compare the games controls to a regular FPS (and probably many other FPS games) is part of your problem IMO.

The metroid games are about exploration, and in that regard a word you brought up earlier comes to mind: functional. I would say highly functional. And this is no bad thing. I am one of those who believes they should incorporate both control schemes though so they can see how diluted it makes the whole experience.

The decision to lock on a lá Zelda rather than give players full control of look-strafe is equal parts genius, brave and foolish. Brave and foolish because it's railing against culturally engrained expextations of what to expect, in what looks like an FPS. Genius because in spite of this it compliments everything so well and helps it feel like a METROID game. The idea that the visor is some kind of biomechanical link between the various Samus and the various suits she wears. The believability factor in being able to target lifeforms, or retreive data from computer screens easily. How intuitive it makes grappling, and jumping from point to point. It just WORKS. And frankly, enemies being able to keep up with you strafing around them in lock-on is both more realistic and generally refreshing. I can't believe how much more of a challenge it makes things, when I'm so used to getting behind some Nazi and blowing out his face via the back of his skull.

It's not even like lock-on guaruntees your shots will land. Electrical enemies and harsh blows, intefere with the functionality of your visor. Some enemies, particularly airborne ones like kamikaze Space Pirates or Ridley are no walk in the park. In multiplayer in this game, morph ball, electrical weapons and moving about fast enough all combat against lock.

I agree with whoever said they were perfect. For these games, they are.

 

[Baconäger]

The way bullets would RANDOMLY go through walls and kill me in Vice City was pretty sweet.

 

[Mrbob]

=Mike Works


Halo's randomness of gameplay WAS great. Sometimes the grunts would run around a rock for cover counter clockwise instead of clockwise!

You think this is hot shit? Wait until you get a whiff of Halo 2! Now when you have two grunts running for cover behind a rock, one will run clockwise and the other counter clockwise AT THE SAME TIME!

GOTY folks done deal case closed.

 

[D2M15]

Now when you have two grunts running for cover behind a rock, one will run clockwise and the other counter clockwise AT THE SAME TIME!

OMFG HALO 2 HAS DUAL RUNNING FOR COVER

 

[PhatSaqs]

I think what people are going to have to realize is that Prime 2, Halo 2, and San Andreas are all on par as far as quality and fun is concerned. But the fact that Halo 2 has an online multiplayer mode that people will be playing (literally) for years to come and San Andreas is just monstrously huge makes it difficult for anyone to give Prime 2 the same scores -- even if it's just as good as Metroid Prime. Yes, Prime 2 has split screen multiplayer, but it can't touch 16 players duking it out in Halo 2 on Xbox Live. The fact that San Andreas is so freaking huge and just about everything in it has been done predominantly well makes it hard to score lower than Prime 2 as well.

In the end, who cares? All three are well worth having under the Christmas tree, and it's not like any of these games were going to change the landscape of the market -- no matter how good or bad they were. Buy these games, play them, and love them. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing/thinking.

Now close this retarded thread.

 

[bishoptl]

That you compare the games controls to a regular FPS (and probably many other FPS games) is part of your problem IMO.

Paraphrasing a much wittier forum member than myself re: MP being unfairly compared to first person shooters...

When Metroid Prime ditches the A) first person view and B) shooting, then I'll stop comparing it to regular first person shooters.

 

[Eric-GCA]

Matt C. just posted on IGN that he got his MP2 copy from Nintendo today and he'll be having fun over the weekend.

 

[Mike Works]

Fran must be ovulating.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

MGS3 got good scores. but i've never cared about magazine scores (especially EGM) i guess i'm happy either way. now if there was only some way to combat the crippling bouts of depression i suffer daily.

 

[Kiriku]

Matt C. just posted on IGN that he got his MP2 copy from Nintendo today and he'll be having fun over the weekend.

A-ha! So his mind is already set on that the game will be fun! BIAS!

 

[sonycowboy]

But the scores are not as superb as they could have been...
The November NPD thread will be insane.

Here, here.

I predict the November NPD will mark the apocalypse of this forum. Brother turning against brother, mothers eating babies, dogs & cats living together, you know real wrath of god type stuff.

It will make any thread you've ever seen look like nothing.

Halo vs GTA
MGS3 vs MP2
Over 100 new games scrapping for sales
Nintendo DS vs GBA
Xbox vs PS2 vs GC.

We'll need the largest popcorn bucket evah!

Never will we be able to top it.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Metroid isn't even on the same plane of existance as GTA / Halo - what Prime is doing in that top ten is frankly, an insult to Rockstar & Bungie.

What makes GTA / Halo so great?

Randomness of gameplay.

No two games of GTA / Halo will ever be the same. Halo 2 proves that, playing through the same levels, you get so many different occurances of events each time you play that assure you'll be replaying long, long after your've finished it

Now I don't know about Echoes, but Prime was a scripted, NES 80's game dynamic joke. Really this is 2004 - do we really want to go back to enemies that respawn as soon as you enter the room? Where bodies magically vanish into the ether? 2D gameplay works when it's 2D...keep Metroid 2D.

Gaming has moved on. It's about time Nintendo did as well. They should thank their lucky stars (and I'm basing this on Prime) that Echoes got rated as well as it did.

Don't weep tears for Nintendo. Weep for the great games in that list like Fatal Frame 2 that will go overlooked this year.

You're missing the point. Metroid has never been about the combat. People want to treat it as a First Person shooter just because it's in first person view. What makes Metroid great is the exploration, upgrades, and boss battles. Combat and enemies are an afterthought, something for the gamer to do while exploring the regions of the planet.

I don't want Metroid to be like GTA or Halo, that's what GTA and Halo are for. Metroid is metroid and thank God Nintendo/Retro were able to succesfully bring that formula into the 3 dimensional world.

 

[Baconäger]

Cool.

 

[GSG Flash]

I have a question for the EGM reviewers. I generally agree with EGM's scores and there's no doubt that these scores will reflect their respective games very accurately, but I was just wondering on how much hype affects the scores you give games?

 

[Justin Bailey]

I have a question for the EGM reviewers. I generally agree with EGM's scores and there's no doubt that these scores will reflect their respective games very accurately, but I was just wondering on how much hype affects the scores you give games?

What the hell kinda question is that?

 

[Musashi Wins!]

"When Metroid Prime ditches the A) first person view and B) shooting, then I'll stop comparing it to regular first person shooters."

lol, great quote you unnamed scribe. I do think that's why the gameplay is unsatisfying to me...but the environments and such in the first one were really impressive.

 

[skip]

do we really want to go back to enemies that respawn as soon as you enter the room? Where bodies magically vanish into the ether? 2D gameplay works when it's 2D...keep Metroid 2D.

edit - n/m.

 

[Deg]

What the hell kinda question is that?

Its a good question. One that has never been asked before What i would like to know is what was wrong with Fight Club?

do we really want to go back to enemies that respawn as soon as you enter the room? Where bodies magically vanish into the ether? 2D gameplay works when it's 2D...keep Metroid 2D.

The 2D metroids are rubbish.

 

[vireland]

Yeah, does anyone know if Jak 3 was reviewed in this issue?

Yes. I thought someone with a sub would have put up the whole enchilada by now, though.

Here's the Jak3 scores: 8.0,8.0,8.5

If no one has them up by tonight when I get some time, I'll put the list up on a new thread where people can trade hugs and lollipops instead of the slam-a-thon this thread has become.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Its a good question. One that has never been asked before What i would like to know is what was wrong with Fight Club?

Yeah, but even if hype effects the scores they're not going to actually admit that outright. I mean, look at what happened with GI and their Paper Mario review.

 

[sonycowboy]

Yes. I thought someone with a sub would have put up the whole enchilada by now, though.

Here's the Jak3 scores: 8.0,8.0,8.5

If no one has them up by tonight when I get some time, I'll put the list up on a new thread where people can trade hugs and lollipops instead of the slam-a-thon this thread has become.

You don't know us very well, do you?

Niceness and civility are in short supply when reviews come around.

Also, just post the whole reviews in here. We don't need to have two seperate threads and we like to see threads get unholy amounts of replies and views.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

This thread is hardly a GAF slam-a-thon. Infact it's too damn civil.



Kinda creepy.

 

[Solid]

A-ha! So his mind is already set on that the game will be fun! BIAS!

Haha

 

[Sinatar]

You're missing the point. Metroid has never been about the combat. People want to treat it as a First Person shooter just because it's in first person view. What makes Metroid great is the exploration, upgrades, and boss battles. Combat and enemies are an afterthought, something for the gamer to do while exploring the regions of the planet.

You realize that being able to FREELY LOOK AROUND might assist EXPLORATION more then hinder it?

 

[Rocket Punch]

You realize that being able to FREELY LOOK AROUND might assist EXPLORATION more then hinder it?

Yes, because pressing a button to look around is restrictive beyond measure. Seriously ...

 

[Deg]

Yeah, but even if hype effects the scores they're not going to actually admit that outright. I mean, look at what happened with GI and their Paper Mario review.

What happened to Paper Mario? I remember they gave MP5 some stupid score like a 5 or 6! Thats unforgiveable as MP5 is a 9+ game.

 

[bishoptl]

It's not so much restrictive beyond measure than just stupid. Why take a step back instead of advancing the genre? For company that prides itself on intuitive controls, MP is nearly as bad as the launch version of WW 2 Online.

[20:32] <@Lum_> why the fuck do I need to dance with three keys TO FIRE
A FUCKING GUN

[20:32] <@anarch> ctl alt f9

[20:32] <@da_slog> so you can map your own keys

[20:32] <@anarch> wtf?

[20:32] <@Lum_> Whatever happened to POINT AND SHOOT

[20:33] <@Lum_> IT IS FAIRLY BASIC CONCEPT

[20:33] <@anarch> press space - 5 - f4 - pgup and num lock to move
forward

[20:33] <@Lum_> I HAVE FIRED RIFLES IN REAL LIFE

[20:33] <@Lum_> I DID NOT HAVE AS MUCH PROBLEM DOING THIS

[20:33] <@Lum_> IT WAS REALLY QUITE EASY

:lol

 

[Mike Works]

You realize that being able to FREELY LOOK AROUND might assist EXPLORATION more then hinder it?

Um, you can do that in Metroid Prime?

 

[Eric-GCA]

Yeah, I can't believe people still can't get it right. You CAN freely look around in MP, just lightly hold down the L button.

 

[Rocket Punch]

OMFG, I find this quite laughable. I mean, I know about control preferences but JESUS.

Are you all brain damaged? I'm serious. Fanboyism aside, I cannot comprehend how on earth people can bitch and whine about something so trivial such as Metroid Prime's controls.

 

[Mrbob]

From page one:

Poor Nintendo fans. This is like a triple blow for them. MP2 scores two 9s and a 10 and it still puts the game in 4th place for the monthly reviews. Not beating the big boys probably would have been acceptable but also being dethroned by MGS3 is gonna push them over the top! HIDE EGM GUYS HIDE.

IAWTP.

 

[Slo]

 

[Justin Bailey]

What happened to Paper Mario? I remember they gave MP5 some stupid score like a 5 or 6! Thats unforgiveable as MP5 is a 9+ game.

They gave it a low score and when the fanboys had a backlash one of the reviewers went on the GI boards and bascially said that they did it because they thought the "gaming public" wouldn't like it. You can read all about it in the thread here on GAF:
http://ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=18453

GI-Jeremy wrote:

Lisa and I both knew that our Paper Mario scores were going to cause controversy. Yes, we know that many people out there will love it. We also know that it is a well-made game. However, it also WILL NOT appeal to many people - I would safely say that more people will dislike it than like it. Why? Like we said in the review, it's a very kiddie game - it's target audience is clearly young gamers - I would say 10 and under. For that reason, we had to score it low. Remember, we aren't scoring games strictly on our personal opinions, we're also scoring them based on how much we think THE GAMING PUBLIC will like them. We've all played games that we personally disliked and scored them well because we've known that most people will like them, and we've also scored games low that we love, because most people won't enjoy them.

FOr example, I really like the bizarre frog golf game Ribbit King, and I gave it a 7, because it's just not for everyone. Paper Mario 2 also scored low because it's just not for everyone. If you think it's a 10 in your book, it's a ten in your book, and that doesn't change if we disagree. We're here to guide you on what games to pick up, but ultimately your personal opinion is what will make you buy a game or not.

I hope this helps.

^ That post was later erased from the GI forums. They tried to sweep it under the rug

 

[Mrbob]

From page 10:

Originally Posted by Fight for Freeform:
Any mention in the reviews if they've fixed Metroid Prime 2's controls?

oh shit

we just have confirmation of a bonus +200 to thread count.

IAWTP

 

[Rocket Punch]

From page 10:




IAWTP

:lol silly goof