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[scaffa]

New Info form Nibris: (translated by babelfish form the German)



Go to trailer and high-res screens:

http://www.gamescathedral.de/gamescat/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5539

I dont want to sound disrespectfull to the developer of Sadness but did they ever release a game prior to this one? They release all kinds of info about this game and even a few days ago a trailer. But has anyone even seen some real gameplay footage?

Everytime I see a news post about them or some PR talk I always get the feeling that this "project" will never even see the daylight... And even if there is a game that it will be garbage.

 

[Avutta1978]

Didnt want to make a new thread about this:

WHat's this i hear about Expert mode in Metroid Prime III?

yeah there is acrroding to john jarker of gaf, the expert mode is more like keyboard and mouse.

 

[Guns N' Poops]

Guys, isn't Elebits a launch title in the US? It's a 2007 release in Europe, maybe this is a hint of a Wii delay here?

 

[effzee]

star fox should be amazing on wii.

 

[Deku]

Odd question: is this the first time Nintendo uses non-Panasonic TVs?

No, they've always used Sharp TVs before. Panasoic was more recent from the tie-up to make the GameCube drive.

 

[DrM]

Guys, isn't Elebits a launch title in the US? It's a 2007 release in Europe, maybe this is a hint of a Wii delay here?

I hope not. Probably localization problems with Elebits.
IIRC all new announced Konami games (MGSO, Coded Arms, Hellboy) are 2007 for Europe.

 

[Shogmaster]

yeah there is acrroding to john jarker of gaf, the expert mode is more like keyboard and mouse.

No no no no no no no NO! "Expert mode" was just cranking up the cursor speed. All it did was allowing faster travel of the cursor from smaller hand movements of the wand. You know how I know this? BECAUSE I ACTUALLY TRIED IT INSTEAD OF SPECULATING LIKE JOHN.

 

[Krowley]

No no no no no no no NO! "Expert mode" was just cranking up the cursor speed. All it did was allowing faster travel of the cursor from smaller hand movements of the wand. You know how I know this? BECAUSE I ACTUALLY TRIED IT INSTEAD OF SPECULATING LIKE JOHN.

did it make a difference? Others who've tried it also said it shrunk the size of the dead zone so movement could start without going to the edge of the screen and speed of movement increased depending on how far you went. Most comments i've heard claimed it was much more usable that way.

 

[Shogmaster]

did it make a difference? Others who've tried it also said it shrunk the size of the dead zone so movement could start without going to the edge of the screen and speed of movement increased depending on how far you went. Most comments i've heard claimed it was much more usable that way.

It helped, but turning around still sucked ass. The real problem is the sensor bar/IR combo having to do the "look" role.

 

[Avutta1978]

It helped, but turning around still sucked ass. The real problem is the sensor bar/IR combo having to do the "look" role.

matt complained about the turning speed, but that was about it. and he said you don't point at the sensor bar but at the tv.so what is the problem.

 

[Gessle]

Regarding the press conference... does anyone know where to download a high-res version of the conference (without subscribing)? The best one I've found so far is the Gamespot one at 400x300 resolution, but maybe there's a higher quality version somewhere else.

Thanks in advance

 

[Shogmaster]

matt complained about the turning speed, but that was about it. and he said you don't point at the sensor bar but at the tv.so what is the problem.

The problem is, when there are enemies all around you, aiming at them becomes a real chore. But of course they compensate by making it so that it it takes many MANY shots for you to get killed in the game. Basically, the game is dumbed down to deal with the control problem. WIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiii~~~

 

[Saargabath]

The problem is, when there are enemies all around you, aiming at them becomes a real chore. But of course they compensate by making it so that it it takes many MANY shots for you to get killed in the game. Basically, the game is dumbed down to deal with the control problem. WIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiii~~~

Isn't it possible to lock enemies on anymore? I definitely saw locked on space pirates in videos.

Edit: The lady's name is Song Hye Kyo.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Wow, tell me who this is.

 

[Shogmaster]

Isn't it possible to lock enemies on anymore? I definitely saw locked on space pirates in videos.

Yes you can lock on to the enemies and let the damn game take over the control of following it around, you wussy. *bangs head on table*

 

[PkunkFury]

It helped, but turning around still sucked ass. The real problem is the sensor bar/IR combo having to do the "look" role.

how does the problem relate to the sensor bar?

 

[Shogmaster]

how does the problem relate to the sensor bar?

The other control methods either don't have to deal with auto centering (mouse), or have mechanism that deals with it automatically (analog sticks). With the IR/sensor bar, you would have to manually center the cursor, which make such control scheme impossible to be useful. Thus is why we were shown such gimpy free cursor look method with Metroid Prime 3 and Red Steel.

 

[yoopoo]

 

[AniHawk]

That's fifty shades of awesome.

 

[cvxfreak]

I hear they're friends in real life.

 

[John Harker]

No no no no no no no NO! "Expert mode" was just cranking up the cursor speed. All it did was allowing faster travel of the cursor from smaller hand movements of the wand. You know how I know this? BECAUSE I ACTUALLY TRIED IT INSTEAD OF SPECULATING LIKE JOHN.

Woa woa woa woa.

First off, I never used the words 'mouse and keyboard' to describe expert mode.

And Mr. Shog - I wasn't speculating. If you've read my posts, I've been talking about the games because I've been playing them. Now apologize.

I Just haven't had a computer, I've only posted short things from the media room - I JUST got home from my trip now.

Expert control increases the sensativity, it makes movement faster. Standard you turn way too slow, but with Expert you can do a 180 much quicker - I never claimed it was mouse speed, but its certaintly seems it can be done, with enough practice, noticely faster than standard dual analogue movement.

I was just happy about Expert mode becuase Prime 3 was the only game that actually let you ADJUST the sensativity. Every other game didn't give you a choice, and honestly, most of them were just plain off. Prime 3 felt really accurate and well tested.

 

[TheWolf]

woah that pic of Spielberg is awesome. two fucking GIANTS of their industries.

 

[pitt_norton]

OFFICIAL: Final hardware secret of Wii is Minority Report's Visual Display System.

 

[Duderz]

Wow, what I'd give to be there watching a match like that.

 

[Trurl]

It looks strange the way that Spielberg is just looking foward.

Woa woa woa woa.

First off, I never used the words 'mouse and keyboard' to describe expert mode.

And Mr. Shog - I wasn't speculating. If you've read my posts, I've been talking about the games because I've been playing them Now apologize.

I Just haven't had a computer, I've only posted short things from the media room - I JUST got home from my trip now.

Expert control increases the sensativity, it makes movement faster. Standard you turn way too slow, but with Expert you can do a 180 much quicker - I never claimed it was mouse speed, but its certaintly seems it can be done, with enough practice, noticely faster than standard dual analogue movement.

I was just happy about Expert mode becuase Prime 3 was the only game that actually let you ADJUST the sensativity. Every other game didn't give you a choice, and honestly, most of them were just plain off. Prime 3 felt really accurate and well tested.

Thanks, that has me feeling alot better.

 

[John Harker]

The guards at the front let Spielberg in right away without having to wait in line

I think he had two body guards to. And, at least at the moment I saw him, he really wasn't in there for very long... I'm not saying he didn't go back or get separate access, but when I saw him walk in, that was probably all he did. Took a few pics with during Wii Tennis or something and skitdaddled.

 

[ant1532]

thats so fucking awesome how Spielberg was there with Miyamoto, arent they somewhat friends or something?

 

[GC|Simon]

I dont want to sound disrespectfull to the developer of Sadness but did they ever release a game prior to this one? They release all kinds of info about this game and even a few days ago a trailer. But has anyone even seen some real gameplay footage?

Everytime I see a news post about them or some PR talk I always get the feeling that this "project" will never even see the daylight... And even if there is a game that it will be garbage.

They have never released aa game before, you are right. But they are a new development studio and they have the support of Miyamoto himself. So I think that Sadness is going to see the daylight. Believe!

 

[Saoh]

this is something i would like to watch

its hard to express how cool this is.

 

[Sgt. Killjoy]

star fox should be amazing on wii.

on rails? oh you bet your fuckin ass.

 

[Error]

those spielberg and miyamoto pics are very cool.

 

[Brannon]

Nintendo needs to give StarFox to Capcom. They've done nothing but wonders with their second most treasured license, Zelda. Why NOT StarFox?

 

[Edwood]

Metroid on the Wii as an example of hardcore end-all-be-all of FPS control is like touting Mario Kart as an example of hardcore end-all-be-all of Racing Games.

Played Metroid Corruption at the Wii booth, and the game itself is dumbed down for sure, but wasn't it dumbed down in the Gamecube versions with the "Target Lock" function?

The Wii-mote's use of controlling looking around (right analog stick or a mouse) in Metroid is inherently flawed. Requires moving the cursor to the edges of screen to actually look around. This is actually slower than using dual sticks. With this method it is impossible to circle strafe without using the crutch of a "Target Lock" feature.

One method that would make the Wii-mote use in FPS games better would be to have a button held (or toggled) to change from fixing the cursor in the center and allowing looking around without having to reach the edges of the screen. And then pressing/or releasing the button to switch to the control as it was in Metroid Corruption.

Think of left trigger aiming in GRAW, but with the Wii-mote.

But even then, the games would still look like shit compared to FPS games on the 360 or PS3.

-Ed

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So Miyamoto and Spielberg together is cool... but I got to thinking about a real dream scenario, pulling from outside of movies and video games.

 

[Emotions]

Metroid on the Wii as an example of hardcore end-all-be-all of FPS control is like touting Mario Kart as an example of hardcore end-all-be-all of Racing Games.

Played Metroid Corruption at the Wii booth, and the game itself is dumbed down for sure, but wasn't it dumbed down in the Gamecube versions with the "Target Lock" function?

The Wii-mote's use of controlling looking around (right analog stick or a mouse) in Metroid is inherently flawed. Requires moving the cursor to the edges of screen to actually look around. This is actually slower than using dual sticks. With this method it is impossible to circle strafe without using the crutch of a "Target Lock" feature.

One method that would make the Wii-mote use in FPS games better would be to have a button held (or toggled) to change from fixing the cursor in the center and allowing looking around without having to reach the edges of the screen. And then pressing/or releasing the button to switch to the control as it was in Metroid Corruption.

Think of left trigger aiming in GRAW, but with the Wii-mote.

But even then, the games would still look like shit compared to FPS games on the 360 or PS3.

-Ed

:lol You wrote all the big analogy to finally call it shit because it's not up to par to the 360 or PS3 graphics.
Your point = moot.
And Expert Mode would like to say HI.

 

[Shogmaster]

:lol You wrote all the big analogy to finally call it shit because it's not up to par to the 360 or PS3 graphics.
Your point = moot.

That's all you fucking got? His point is moot even though he played with Wiimote and you haven't, just because he prefers real next gen graphics in 2006?

And Expert Mode would like to say HI.

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Expert mode is just a faster cursor mode. It's still shit for FPS gameplay. The Wiimote is absolutely a step backwards for FPS. It only shine when married to a gimmicky or simplitic gameplay.

 

[Emotions]

That's all you fucking got? His point is moot even though he played with Wiimote and you haven't, just because he prefers real next gen graphics in 2006?



You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Expert mode is just a faster cursor mode. It's still shit for FPS gameplay. The Wiimote is absolutely a step backwards for FPS. It only shine when married to a gimmicky or simplitic gameplay.

First of all We already knew the Wii is about the gameplay over graphics, so i didn't see a point in bringin over the graphics, because the game doesn't look bad at all, IMO. A lot of people have liked the graphics and have given good impressions about them.
Second point most of the impressions about MP3 have been positive, just because you hate it and have been negative about the whole Wii thing even before it was unveiled gives me a lot to think. Of course i'm going to believe the majority of people here and the sites that have been given good impressions about it wich you probably thing they're Nintards or whatever you wanna call them. I don't think you're liying either but yours is just an opinion. A lot of people in this forum have been giving good impressions and opinions about MP3: John Harker, Willco , Ark-Man, etc. So i'm quite positive that the Revmote is going to work for these games. Otherwise there would be a majority of negative impressions about it wich they're not.

PS: Nintendo wouldn't fuck up controls like that. They're ace in that regard.

 

[Shogmaster]

First of all We already knew the Wii is about the gameplay over graphics, so i didn't see a point in bringin over the graphics, because the game doesn't look bad at all, IMO. A lot of people have liked the graphics and have given good impressions about them.
Second point most of the impressions about MP3 have been positive, just because you hate it and have been negative about the whole Wii thing even before it was unveiled gives me a lot to think. Of course i'm going to believe the majority of people here and the sites that have been given good impressions about it wich you probably thing they're Nintards or whatever you wanna call them. I don't think you're liying either but yours is just an opinion. A lot of people in this forum have been giving good impressions and opinions about MP3: John Harker, Willco , Ark-Man, etc. So i'm quite positive that the Revmote is going to work for these games. Otherwise there would be a majority of negative impressions about it wich they're not.

PS: Nintendo wouldn't fuck up controls like that. They're ace in that regard.

How about this? Do those who gave positive opinions about MP3 enjoyed FPS controls of MP1 and MP2? How much FPS do they play? 'Cause Edwood and I mostly play FPS for our gaming enjoyment. We know FPS intimately on both PC and consoles. We know what are good FPS schemes and what are not.

The point of all this is whether Wiimote is advancing FPS controls on the console or regressing. Being FPS fans, and having played MP3 at E3, we can absolutely assert the fact that Wiimode is not advancing FPS controls but infact regressing it since it's even worse than the age old dual analog schemes dating back to DS on PS1.

Let me put this another way: If a hypothetical game was made on Wii that allowed both Halo like dual analog controls and MP3 like IR/sensor bar controls, those using dual analog controls would absolutely destroy the ones that prefer the Wiimode controls since they will be able to circle strafe the poor delusional bastards into the ground and then piss over their ashes.

 

[soundwave05]

How about this? Do those who gave positive opinions about MP3 enjoyed FPS controls of MP1 and MP2? How much FPS do they play? 'Cause Edwood and I mostly play FPS for our gaming enjoyment. We know FPS intimately on both PC and consoles. We know what are good FPS schemes and what are not.

The point of all this is whether Wiimote is advancing FPS controls on the console or regressing. Being FPS fans, and having played MP3 at E3, we can absolutely assert the fact that Wiimode is not advancing FPS controls but infact regressing it since it's even worse than the age old dual analog schemes dating back to DS on PS1.

Let me put this another way: If a hypothetical game was made on Wii that allowed both Halo like dual analog controls and MP3 like IR/sensor bar controls, those using dual analog controls would absolutely destroy the ones that prefer the Wiimode controls since they will be able to circle strafe the poor delusional bastards into the ground and then piss over their ashes.

If the turning issue is still a problem by the final build ... they could just use the D-Pad for quickly turning (or make the analog for turning and d-pad for moving).

Problem solved.

The Wii controller offers the control equivalent of 3 analog joysticks really, because you still have your analog + d-pad (or analog 2) in addition to the Wiimote's pointer for aiming.

Hell, if you really wanted to, as a designer you could also assign commands to the Nunchaku's motion sensors for even more specific control.

 

[Shogmaster]

If the turning issue is still a problem by the final build ... they could just use the D-Pad for quickly turning (or make the analog for turning and d-pad for moving).

Problem solved.

Do you have any idea what circle strafing is? How would 45 degree turning via buttons do that? Jesus, any of you people play FPS competitively?

The Wii controller offers the control equivalent of 3 analog joysticks really, because you still have your analog + d-pad (or analog 2) in addition to the Wiimote's pointer.

That would work if you have a triple jointed thumb that can reach the d pad while holding it so that you could use the B button with your fore finger. And how the hell is a digital D pad equivilent to an analog stick? Think before typing.

Hell, if you really wanted to, as a designer you could also assign commands to the Nunchaku's motion sensors for even more specific control.

Nunchuck only has an accelerometer. That can't do shit with providing analog like controls.

 

[soundwave05]

Do you have any idea what circle strafing is? How would 45 degree turning via buttons do that? Jesus, any of you people play FPS competitively?



That would work if you have a triple jointed thumb that can reach the d pad while holding it so that you could use the B button with your fore finger. And how the hell is a digital D pad equivilent to an analog stick? Think before typing.



Nunchuck only has an accelerometer. That can't do shit with providing analog like controls.

EDIT: How about this

D-Pad - Movement (like a keyboard or N64 C-Buttons)

Analog - Turning/Looking Around (like any console FPS)

Wiimote - Controls Samus' Aimer.

B button - Fire

A button - Secondary function, ala missles or whatever

C/Z buttons - Scanning/Jump

Nunchaku Motion Sensor - Samus' other hand.

There ya go. This setup actually wouldn't be able to be replicated on a keyboard mouse even, because the mouse has to control both the axis and the aimer at the same time, in this setup you can turn around and still have indepedent control of your aimer.

This is actually closer to a virtual reality setup.

Hitting the D-Pad and the B-button is no different from the Analog stick on the N64 and Z-trigger on it's undeside.

 

[Edwood]

I've played FPS's since the original Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.

I still prefer Mouse + Keyboard, but can still find my way with dual thumbsticks. (Shog can still pwn my ass in consoles)

Emotions apparently is too quick to find snippets in my posts for a sound bite quote rather than actually reading.

I have not completely condemned the Wii-mote. I like the idea in concept. But it's current execution sucks hard. I have more of a problem with the games themselves than the controller.

Metroid Corruption is a dumbed down FPS. Please try and say it's a hardcore FPS game with a straight face. The "target locking" feature is THE ONLY WAY TO CIRCLE STRAFE with Metroid Corruption, end of story. I repeatedly asked Nintendo folks in the booth about it, and the only way to turn is to move the cursor to the edge of the screen.

Now please reread my comment about how the Wii-mote's use could be improved for FPS play by using a Left Trigger GRAW aiming scheme.

But even with that part improved to perfection, it still doesn't address the Wii's games not looking as good as it's competitors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, "it's not about the graphics, it's about the gameplay."

Shit if it purely came down to gameplay and controls for FPS gaming, I'd just go back to FPS gaming on the PC. That way I don't have to sacrifice graphics quality, I can spend my way to better graphics. But XBox Live pwns PC multiplayer experience. Fuck you GameSpy, fuck you. I picked GRAW for the 360 over the PC purely because of Live.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

EDIT: How about this

D-Pad - Movement (like a keyboard or N64 C-Buttons)

Analog - Turning/Looking Around (like any console FPS)

Wiimote - Controls Samus' Aimer.

B button - Fire

A button - Secondary function, ala missles or whatever

C/Z buttons - Scanning/Jump

Nunchaku Motion Sensor - Samus' other hand.

There ya go. This setup actually wouldn't be able to be replicated on a keyboard mouse even, because the mouse has to control both the axis and the aimer at the same time, in this setup you can turn around and still have indepedent control of your aimer.

This is actually closer to a virtual reality setup.

Hitting the D-Pad and the B-button is no different from the Analog stick on the N64 and Z-trigger on it's undeside.

This would only work if you had a hand like this:

-Ed

 

[Shogmaster]

Can you circle strafe on a dual analog controller?

WHAT THE HELL HAVE I BEEN SAYIN' ALL THIS TIME?!!? YES!!!

The Wii has basically a dual directional input too ... analog + d-pad ... the d-pad doesn't have analog movement, but you could assign movement functions to the d-pad (like a keyboard isn't analog, nor were the N64 C-buttons ... both work great for FPS movement).

The digital pad is only good for WASD movements in the first place, but it's fucked up location on the Wiimote means it's good for nothing during gameplay.

You have your basic "bread & butter" controller setup on the Wii controller with the Analog + D-Pad already even before getting into the Wiimote's motion pointer abilities

Jesus christ.... You really should hold the Wiimote and the chuck before you go on and on like this. The ergonomics make d-pad + analog stick combo fucking impossible for humans without birth defects in the hands.

It's simply up to the developer as to how they want to use all that.

If the developer is interested in FPS controls that caters to competitive performance rather than role playing a schizoid wino with a stick, then they will code it for the GC controller and it's dual analog sticks instead of the Wiimote!

To have comparable control on a Dual Shock or XBox 360 pad, you would have to be able to use the d-pad + 2 analogs simulataneously.

And you still won't be able to circle strafe with them.

 

[soundwave05]

Seems like the only problem is the position of the d-pad. Perhaps Nintendo needs to work on that.

It seems rather silly though ... how are you supposed to play a game that just uses the Wiimote?

You can't use the d-pad in this setup?

Maybe they need to swap the position of the A-button and the D-Pad.

Your thumb should naturally go over the D-Pad when you pick up the Wiimote, I would've thought that would be a given.

I think one of the problems is they added the speaker, which now has made the remote longer, making it more difficult for the thumb to hit the d-pad.

 

[Edwood]

Seems like the only problem is the position of the d-pad. Perhaps Nintendo needs to work on that.

It seems rather silly though ... how are you supposed to play a game that just uses the Wiimote?

You can't use the d-pad in this setup?

Maybe they need to swap the position of the A-button and the D-Pad.

Your thumb should naturally go over the D-Pad when you pick up the Wiimote, I would've thought that would be a given.

I think one of the problems is they added the speaker, which now has made the remote longer, making it more difficult for the thumb to hit the d-pad.

DPad location is retarded. It's position is so you can turn the Wii-mote sideways and use it as a simple controller.

Many things about the Wii-mote is unintuitive. For one, why the fuck is the A button used for shooting in Metroid by default and not the trigger button?

Like I said, the only way for the Wii-mote to work is to do a Left Trigger GRAW style aiming scheme.

-Ed

 

[soundwave05]

DPad location is retarded. It's position is so you can turn the Wii-mote sideways and use it as a simple controller.

Many things about the Wii-mote is unintuitive. For one, why the fuck is the A button used for shooting in Metroid by default and not the trigger button?

Like I said, the only way for the Wii-mote to work is to do a Left Trigger GRAW style aiming scheme.

-Ed

Err ... no, what you're saying the button layout for the E3 demo is "retarded".

That has nothing to do with the controller itself though, that's up to the developer.

And even the d-pad issue ... simply hold the controller with a slightly higher grip. I doubt the controller is somehow unusable if you move your hand up a little bit ... TV remotes certainly aren't.

The final version of Prime 3 will probably have several control setups.

 

[Edwood]

Err ... no, what you're saying the button layout for the E3 demo is "retarded".

That has nothing to do with the controller itself though, that's up to the developer.

And even the d-pad issue ... simply hold the controller with a slightly higher grip. I doubt the controller is somehow unusable if you move your hand up a little bit ... TV remotes certainly aren't.

The final version of Prime 3 will probably have several control setups.

Even if you could manage to comfortably hold it like that, it will still look and play like shit.

I think the only setup that might work is the Left Trigger GRAW style aiming with the Wii-mote.

Don't forget that the Wii-mote requires line of sight to work with the sensor bar, so this fact limits the way you can hold the Wii-mote.

 

[soundwave05]

Even if you could manage to comfortably hold it like that, it will still look and play like shit.

I think the only setup that might work is the Left Trigger GRAW style aiming with the Wii-mote.

Don't forget that the Wii-mote requires line of sight to work with the sensor bar, so this fact limits the way you can hold the Wii-mote.

It's all relative.

Most PS3/360 games will not even likely push the system.

As a publisher, how are you supposed to afford that ... everyone's jumping up and down to get more CG-esque visuals ... guess what ... CG movies cost tens of millions of dollars to make and take 4-5 years to develop/animate.

Even though I think the horsepower is there ... the average PS3/360 will not even come close to using it. Few games will do it, but most games will be stuck in the middle-of-the-pack.

There's still an economic reality that I think people are totally clueless about ... the level of visual fidelity a lot of you guys are demanding is simply not economically feasible.

I think people will be surprised also at what developers can push out of a finalized Wii system.

No, it's not going to be absolutely high-end ... but then again it's not a ridiculous price point like $600.

 

[Edwood]

It's all relative.

Most PS3/360 games will not even likely push the system.

As a publisher, how are you supposed to afford that ... everyone's jumping up and down to get more CG-esque visuals ... guess what ... CG movies cost tens of millions of dollars to make and take 4-5 years to develop/animate.

Even though I think the horsepower is there ... the average PS3/360 will not even come close to using it. Few games will do it, but most games will be stuck in the middle-of-the-pack.

There's still an economic reality that I think people are totally clueless about ... the level of visual fidelity a lot of you guys are demanding is simply not economically feasible.

Got HDTV?

I'm sure the Wii will look fabulous on your 13" fish bowled tube.