OldJadedGamer
Banned
BurntPork said:
What we have learned about Nintendo launch prices... Whatever you think the max price will be, add $50 and that is the price.
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NPD June 2011 Sales Results [Update5: Most HW in, Infamous 2]
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
What we have learned about Nintendo launch prices... Whatever you think the max price will be, add $50 and that is the price.
velvet_nitemare
Member
BurntPork said:
The Wii was also overpriced at launch.
AbsoluteZero
Banned
velvet_nitemare said:
I'd disagree, but that's what the internet's all about.
Didn't see the 360 or PS3 coming with a pack-in game.
velvet_nitemare
Member
AbsoluteZero said:
Fair point, but the tech was vastly outdated at launch. I'm sure the profit margins on the Wii are close to what Nintendo are making on each 3DS now.
velvet_nitemare
Member
Dance In My Blood said:
Also, this.
MeBecomingI
Member
Burai said:
... It seems like you either don't get it or are refusing to acknowledge the point of everyone being able to find convenience in different ways.
You are just throwing in random points at this point, like being late for work, which have absolutely no bearing against my original point of convenience. Like I said, the fact of the matter is, someone may find it convenient to be able to use the car at all, than not at all. I find it convenient that I can still listen to music on my PS3 instead of updating because I really don't feel like updating at that point because I don't have the patience that day... That is my personal convenience. Someone else may update right there to go play Uncharted 2 online, or something. That is my point!
I agree that the comparison is silly, hence why I never created it myself. Don't try to paint me as the one introducing the ridiculous car comparison to begin with, and don't say that I am defending anything. I am clarifying the idea that everyone can find convenience in whatever way they can, which is pretty simple to understand.
The Wii wasn't more expensive in NA than other territories - every territory had Wii Sports packed in for an equivalent price except Japan and South Korea.Dance In My Blood said:
Japan got screwed over by not having Wii Sports bundled while still obeying the typical $1 = 100 yen conversion that every other console has.
Little Green Yoda
Member
The original DS released in late 2004. Pokemon Diamond/Pearl didn't arrive until late 2006, early 2007. That's 2+ years after launch. If the current Pokemon generation lasts the usual 4 years, gen 6 is coming ~2014 which is 3 years into the 3DS lifecycle so it's not a huge difference.AdventureRacing said:
And there's still the possibility that Pokemon Grey could be 3DS exclusive or 3DS enhanced. Then there are the rumored Ruby/Sapphire remakes - I would be very surprised to see those as vanilla DS releases.
MeBecomingI said:
Sorry, but who the fuck turns on their games console to play a game, realises they can't without hours of updates and installs and then just sits listening to music in the dashboard instead? And are happy about the convenience of it, as you'd suggest someone could be?
Seriously, you want to distance yourself from your dumb, self-imposed car analogy, that's fine, but who would find the situation you've described in any way "convenient"?
Nobody buys a consumer electronics device to be told that they can't do what they bought it for and put up with doing some minor, tertiary function on it instead. Nobody. In most cases that shit gets sold/traded/returned for a device that's fit for purpose.
MeBecomingI
Member
Burai said:
Take it easy, man! Calm down.
I have turned on the console, didn't want to update, and instead listened to music. There, I just showed you who does that - me! And I am sure that I am not the only one. Secondly, convenience doesn't mean happiness... Don't put words into my mouth. Finally, it wasn't my anology to begin with, so quit saying "your dumb analogy" because you are attacking someone else, Burai. Finally, anyone could find the situation described convenient! You might not, but someone else might!
Guess what? People think differently and find appreciate in different things. You may not stand for buying a consumer electronics device and being told you can't do what they bought it for, but someone can, especially when it is an update and the functionality can be brought back.
Anyway, I won't explain it further and if I do, we can do it over PM. I'll get back to the topic at hand.
electroplankton
Banned
Maybe Wii was highly overpriced BUT it costs way less than the other consoles AND has a game packed in (which is a good way to attract consumers).
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
electroplankton said:
Also i think Birth By Sleep was really close to that too.
" In October 2010, it was listed as the sixth bestselling video game in the United States by the NPD Group." via Wikipedia.
electroplankton
Banned
BladeoftheImmortal said:
225.000 which is quite below the 300k mark. Anyway, it could be one of the best debut of a PSP game in the U.S.
Guys... again... overpriced products do not sell out for 2+ years. It's nonsense to suggest that the Wii was overpriced when it was clearly underpriced. Internal components do not determine a product's value to mainstream consumers.
@ kame-sennin: Believe me, you're not the only one who saw the 3DS and went, "What the hell is Nintendo thinking?" I am gravely disappointed with the design choices made in reference to that machine as well. What I would suggest is that whereas the Wii took some inspiration from the DS and its success, the Wii U appears to be designed as a reflection of both the Wii's strengths and weaknesses - and not the 3DS's. I believe Nintendo had been working for so long trying to bring glassless 3D onto one of their systems that they forgot to ask whether the audience actually cares about it. I don't, however, see this as a precursor for the Wii U's future or intent, but rather Miyamoto and Co. being consumed by a pet project.
Yes, the 3DS is a mistake. That's been clear from the start. How badly it will impact the company is a different subject.
However, I think it's a pretty strong leap of logic to suggest that the Wii U suffers from the same issue when already there is interest from the Wii audience towards what it offers... and that's with little showcased for the platform. You might be right. Nintendo might screw it up too, but nothing about its design illustrates that to me right now. If Battle Mii and Chase Mii are indicative of at least some of the products Nintendo has planned for it, then I think it's in okay shape.
@ kame-sennin: Believe me, you're not the only one who saw the 3DS and went, "What the hell is Nintendo thinking?" I am gravely disappointed with the design choices made in reference to that machine as well. What I would suggest is that whereas the Wii took some inspiration from the DS and its success, the Wii U appears to be designed as a reflection of both the Wii's strengths and weaknesses - and not the 3DS's. I believe Nintendo had been working for so long trying to bring glassless 3D onto one of their systems that they forgot to ask whether the audience actually cares about it. I don't, however, see this as a precursor for the Wii U's future or intent, but rather Miyamoto and Co. being consumed by a pet project.
Yes, the 3DS is a mistake. That's been clear from the start. How badly it will impact the company is a different subject.
However, I think it's a pretty strong leap of logic to suggest that the Wii U suffers from the same issue when already there is interest from the Wii audience towards what it offers... and that's with little showcased for the platform. You might be right. Nintendo might screw it up too, but nothing about its design illustrates that to me right now. If Battle Mii and Chase Mii are indicative of at least some of the products Nintendo has planned for it, then I think it's in okay shape.
SkylineRKR
Member
The Wii was overpriced for what it had under its belt, but it was still the cheapest of the 3 and the only one offering a different or perhaps 'fresh' gameplay experience.
Priced at 300 would mean it was exactly as expensive as a 360 Arcade, but it probably wouldn't have stopped the Wii from crushing the competition either.
Priced at 300 would mean it was exactly as expensive as a 360 Arcade, but it probably wouldn't have stopped the Wii from crushing the competition either.
Cygnus X-1
Member
DMeisterJ said:
Interesting.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The "Wii was overpriced" meme is based on hardcore gamers' biased view of technology value, and the fact that they're used to other game companies slitting their wrists to deliver massive amounts of technology at loss leader pricing. See: Playstation Vita. Even the PS3 with its steep price was still a loss leader for a while.
People who only put value in processor/graphic technology they see as cutting edge might judge a product "overpriced" if they can find an OEM CPU/GPU part with a shelf price below the "overpriced" item.
The Wii wasn't overpriced because its price was in line with the value it represented, which was much more than a Gamecube. Gamers don't like to count Wii Sports sales as legitimate because it was a pack-in game which they see as throwaway trash.. But to the actual audience the Wii was aimed at, Wii Sports was the killer app, AAA game. They bought the Wii for that new experience no game console had offered before.
That's why the "overpriced" Wii sold like freakin' crazy.
People who only put value in processor/graphic technology they see as cutting edge might judge a product "overpriced" if they can find an OEM CPU/GPU part with a shelf price below the "overpriced" item.
The Wii wasn't overpriced because its price was in line with the value it represented, which was much more than a Gamecube. Gamers don't like to count Wii Sports sales as legitimate because it was a pack-in game which they see as throwaway trash.. But to the actual audience the Wii was aimed at, Wii Sports was the killer app, AAA game. They bought the Wii for that new experience no game console had offered before.
That's why the "overpriced" Wii sold like freakin' crazy.
SkylineRKR said:
Again: This is nonsense. Your perspective absolutely disregards the effects of innovation on product value. What you're advocating for is nothing more than brute force red ocean strategy - which does nothing more but increase costs and lessens the potential for innovative solutions or concepts. If a company has no idea how to be innovative or introduce a new paradigm, then yes, they're probably trapped in this sort of mindset and strategy; if they have innovative ideas, then there's no reason to up costs since they have little connection to perceived value.
Which clearly demonstrates that the Wii was underpriced.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Dance In My Blood said:
Exactly. They was no choice if you wanted the game or not. I would have ditched the game personally as a lower price was more important than being forced to buy a game I didn't want.
SkylineRKR
Member
Well its down to the individual ofcourse. I had less problems shelling out 400 bucks for a Ps3, than 250 bucks for a Wii around 2007. Based on what the Ps3 would give me in BR playback, graphics, online play and the lot I found it to be a better deal than the Wii personally.
And I didn't really deny that the Wii was underpriced from a mass market view, its why I gave the example to begin with. The Wii was still cheaper than the competiton, and offered something fresh which were the motion controls as opposed to the tried and true control pads. It created this blue ocean, a new market.
Therefore even if the Wii was being priced at 300, and the Ps3 and 360 being priced at 250 each, I'd still would've put my money on the Wii to outsell them.
And I didn't really deny that the Wii was underpriced from a mass market view, its why I gave the example to begin with. The Wii was still cheaper than the competiton, and offered something fresh which were the motion controls as opposed to the tried and true control pads. It created this blue ocean, a new market.
Therefore even if the Wii was being priced at 300, and the Ps3 and 360 being priced at 250 each, I'd still would've put my money on the Wii to outsell them.
But there was a GAF thread where nearly everyone claimed to have flip flopped from X360 to PS3 mid-generation....
Damn, I wanted to respond on Friday, but I had a project due for a client. Glad to see this thread bumped.
Anyways, here are my thoughts on June's NPD:
- Glad to see both NBA 2k11 and MK9 have some legs to them. Great games, and it's a shame I don't have the time to invest in MK9. NBA 2k11 is arguably the best sports game ever created.
- X360 is a beast. 500k in a month with no major release is great no matter what. 6yrs in a going strong. Well deserved success for MS.
- The Free-X360-with-Win7-purchase promotion probably gave the console a 100k or so bump. Wise marketing decision by MS.
- 3DS needs a price cut. Everyone knows it, but Nintendo has no reason to do it just yet. ~$300 (console + 1 game) for a handheld is simply out of the impulse buy range. PSV will have the same problem when it launches too. Nintendo should cut the price to $200 by Nov.
- Solid sales for OoT, higher than I expected.
- Nice to see PS3 owners pick up Infamous 2. I plan to buy it later this year/early next year when I can snag it for $40 or cheaper. Loved the first Infamous.
velvet_nitemare
Member
Looking at jvm's column, gotta give props to MS. 360 keeps rising to heaven on both software and hardware.
statham
Member
I invite my friend over once a week to play games, drink beers and bullshit. I learned eventually I will stop this madness. Everytime I turn on my ps3 it has to update, 4-8 minutes. normally I'll just make myself a sandwich, with friend over I have to make two! Sometimes he's not hungry and it goes to waste. I've also realized the cost of the extra sandwiches would have paid for xbox live for the month and a new outfit for my avatar. We could be gaming with the 360 instead of making wasted sandwiches. and I could have new pet dragon.Burai said:
BannedEpisode
Member
People still think the 3DS is going to fail?
Thats just silly.
Thats just silly.
BishopLamont
Banned
It's clear Nintendo got a bit cocky with the 3DS pricing due to the DS/Wii success, but never the less a platform's fate isn't decided based on a couple months of performance. They took a gamble with the price and launch software (third party based than first party) but this also confirms to me my suspicion of Nintendo not having proper mass-appeal first party software ready for launch and thus relying on third party to carry the system initially. It'll do well this holiday due to Mario and stuff but they're gonna need new casual IPs or consistent third party support if they want it to perform at a respectable pace. Third parties are already weary of the 3DS' performance so its all up to Nintendo again. The more things change, the more they stay the same basically.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Did we ever get solid PSP numbers?
BishopLamont
Banned
How bout you define fail?artwalknoon said:
Fail as in doesn't meet ds' life time unit sales in all regions combined.BishopLamont said:
Fail as in doesn't meet half of ds' life time unit sales in all regions combined.
Has a shorter shelf life as a result, 3-4 years or less.
Sells significantly less software including 1st party titles for example Nintendogs+Cats sells significantly less than the original and later iterations, Brain Age 3ds sells less than original brain age, Mario Kart 3ds, Super Mario Bros 3ds, so on and so forth.
I could see all of these being true plus some other versions of "fail". But it will of course make a profit for Nintendo.
Its not selling nearly to expectations. Personally I don't want one, my wife doesn't want one, my 2 nephews don't want one and we all have DSs. I don't know 1 person who wants one actually.BannedEpisode said:
BishopLamont said:
How about the large majority of the handheld market being absorbed by the smart phone craze. People are no longer buying dedicated gaming handhelds and instead spending $1.99 on a few decent games for their phone.
Nintendo will make money from the platform but in 2011, its a platform thats falling out from underneath them. That kind of fail.
Duxxy3
Member
I wouldn't say that people are not buying dedicated handhelds, just look at the regular DS sales.
But right now the 3DS is an AWFUL value to consumers for whatever reasons they have. I've seen "too expensive", "not enough games", "out dated graphics", "don't like 3d" and many many others.
Now they can add on the drying up game releases in the future to the list as well between cancellations and long delays.
These complaints were not as prevalent when the DS launched. It was just about the lack of games.
But right now the 3DS is an AWFUL value to consumers for whatever reasons they have. I've seen "too expensive", "not enough games", "out dated graphics", "don't like 3d" and many many others.
Now they can add on the drying up game releases in the future to the list as well between cancellations and long delays.
These complaints were not as prevalent when the DS launched. It was just about the lack of games.
Duxxy3 said:
This is the one I've heard the most. Nintendo seriously misjudged the value of 3d glasses or no glasses. Consumers just aren't that into it. Plus the 3ds' 3d is still limited with an incredibly small viewing angle and viewing distance that annoys people (anecdotal evidence from people who have tried mine). Nintendo should have found a different hook that actually expanded gameplay like dual touch screens or multitouch in conjunction with all the other tech in the 3ds, and used the processing power and battery power saved by not having 3d and put it into better graphics and AR implementation.
BishopLamont
Banned
Its hard for any dedicated handheld to top the DS, that doesn't make them failures. The 3DS is not going to have a shelf life of 3-4 years, thats ludicrous. If Mario Kart or Super Mario sells 20M instead of 30M (Not the correct sales, just an example) that doesn't make them failures either, these kind of games sales are dependent on the userbase.artwalknoon said:
Yep the DS is no longer a handheld.alphaNoid said:
I don't know if 3D is an "unsellable" feature, seeing as how 3D movies are still wildly popular. In hollywood, your movie being given "the 3D push" (which costs a lot more) is a sign that a movie studio thinks the movie will be successful. The 3DS' problems are entirely software-related, just as the DS in its first year. To a smaller degree, price of course. But a much smaller degree than software.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
BurntPork said:
... they are 3D remakes. Which is probably equivalent to an HD remake in that it's still a port with a fancy coat of paint. It's not a Resident Evil reconstruction of the entire base game.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Sho_Nuff82 said:
That's exactly what they are. They are full remakes like Mario 64 DS (whether or not they build off of the original code), not just simple ports.