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[Sydle]

Why are so many ignoring that Microsoft did a ton of work to build 3rd party developer relationships early in the generation, going as far as to ask developers what they wanted for the console specs/online and building a team that helps out those external developers? They also made a console that is easy to develop for, which is where the head start helped so much. It was easier to come to grips with compared to the PS3 and so it became the lead development platform for developers to get started in the generation.

Software is also a great reason MS does well in NA and why they fail in Japan. There's something for nearly every taste in NA, where it's significantly lacking in Japan and is spotty in Europe (but making progress).

Online became a defining factor this generation and there's no arguing that the 360 has a better online experience even with Sony's progress. Perhaps Sony will neutralize it next gen (looks likely considering Vita specs so far), but the tones have been set this gen and expectations set. Building their online community first, where friends started playing with other friends online, helped increase word of mouth.

Marketing and media helps a good product tremendously. It can't save a bad one.

'Murica, Fuck Yeah! Say what you will about the Japanese being nationalistic, Americans are just as nationalistic if not more in some cases. The 360 being an American console that catered to American tastes helped the brand immensely while giving the western gamer a louder voice in, what was until recently, a previously Japanese dominated industry. The only way MS could have tapped deeper into this aspect of the American consumers psyche would have been to name the 360 the "Ol' Glory" and have the word "Freedom" painted all over the console in red white and blue.

Wat? You do recall that last generation the Xbox sold a fraction of what the PS2 sold, right? You also realized that in other markets, like the automobile market where there is plenty of "Murica" offerings, foreign car makers still rule?

 

[Cheech]

Buying electronics out of "nationalism" is a uniquely Japanese concept; as it's one of their points of national pride. The 360 has the best online, and that's the most important thing to US gamers. Simple.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Say what you will about the Japanese being nationalistic, Americans are just as nationalistic if not more in some cases. The 360 being an American console that catered to American tastes helped the brand immensely while giving the western gamer a louder voice in, what was until recently, a previously Japanese dominated industry. The only way MS could have tapped deeper into this aspect of the American consumers psyche would have been to name the 360 the "Ol' Glory" and have the word "Freedom" painted all over the console in red white and blue.

Americans snapped up way more Japanese PS2s than American Xboxs, so not sure how much this point is true, but I agree with the rest of your post.

Why are so many ignoring that Microsoft did a ton of work to build 3rd party developer relationships early in the generation, going as far as to ask developers what they wanted for the console specs/online and building a team that helps out those external developers? They also made a console that is easy to develop for

Good point, and I think it's the reason 3rd party games looked better on the 360, when perhaps if a Sony dev was making the game it may have been the one that looked better. So when 3rd party games came out looking the same or better on 360, the impression is that the PS3 for all its hardware doesn't make games look better (although 1st party PS3 games are better looking imo).

 

[CitizenCope]

Damn! So many 360's out there and I can still only have 100 friends. Does not compute.

 

[Dabanton]

MS 'dominance' came about with arrogance from Sony and smart decisions from MS getting the smarter third parties on board early was a wise move. Cutting back on Sony having the advantage with what were basically third party 'exclusives' I still remeber the tears on GAF when DMC4 was announced multplatform and as for when games like Final Fantasy were announced it became meltdown city.Even though seemingly a lot of people are "meh" about FF13 now, back them it was seen as a big part of the console 'war' but even Square knew what was up, why ignore all those potential sales by staying totally exclusive.

DLC deals for the big games, Xbox Live arcade growth into an amazing part of it's portfolio with the quality of the games on there.

Making sure the 'base' knew about it's big exclusives and pushing them accordingly on Xbox Live so even the most causal user would know when it's coming.

The Xbox Live ecosystem which pushes games like no other, people buying what their friends are seen playing. The ease of that service and the things like voice and party chat and easily joining our friends games, that we kind of take for granted now. PSN is good but i never truly feel connected to anything when i game on mine. So for all the prettiness of the XMB it still feels dull and lifeless, And having to sign in to see new content is annoying..

 

[pharmboy044]

Why is there no public outrage for the YLOD I wonder

The thought of you comparing the RROD situation to YLOD is absolutely laughable. They are not even in the same stratosphere.

You should go read that book that Dean Takahashi wrote about the 360 Launch and the shitty hardware Microsoft used negligently so that they could be first on the market.

 

[Quadrangulum]

Buying electronics out of "nationalism" is a uniquely Japanese concept; as it's one of their points of national pride. The 360 has the best online, and that's the most important thing to US gamers. Simple.

It is not a Japanese concept, it is ludicrously incorrect to call it nationalism, and there are many other, more suitable factors to examine before having to resort to this incredibly lazy explanation.

 

[Kagari]

Americans snapped up way more Japanese PS2s than American Xboxs, so not sure how much this point is true, but I agree with the rest of your post.

Americans liked Japanese games more last generation too, though.

I've seen it on this forum and outside of it, but lately there seems to be a great feeling against Japanese games/anime/culture in general.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Americans liked Japanese games more last generation too, though.

I've seen it on this forum and outside of it, but lately there seems to be a great feeling against Japanese games/anime/culture in general.

Ya, I think this gen if you asked most people to name 5 Japanese games, they'd all start with Wii_

 

[snap0212]

I think this generation is pretty much „over“. I don't mean that we won't see any changes (Sony catching up on MS, Microsoft outselling Sony in M.-Europe) but that the main reason people buy console X now is because their friends recommended it. I don't think the exclusives are a deciding facor anymore, and I don't think Xbox Live is a factor anymore.

Everyone nowadays wants to play with their friends and if all friends happen to play on one console, the console of choice will be that one. Someone who wants more might get „the other one“ later but there's a limited amount of money and people will most likely spend it on the console their friends have... to play online with them. If that's the PS3, fine. If it's the 360, also fine. No one would buy an Xbox if all friends are playing on PS3 and vice versa.

 

[BurntPork]

Does anyone know how PSP did in its first year? I want to know if 3DS has any hope of matching it.

 

[Sydle]

Americans snapped up way more Japanese PS2s than American Xboxs, so not sure how much this point is true, but I agree with the rest of your post.

Good point, and I think it's the reason 3rd party games looked better on the 360, when perhaps if a Sony dev was making the game it may have been the one that looked better. So when 3rd party games came out looking the same or better on 360, the impression is that the PS3 for all its hardware doesn't make games look better (although 1st party PS3 games are better looking imo).

I think the two are so close that any small disparities just don't matter except for a very small demographic of gamers.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Its not just about starting trends, its about propogating and following them. This is especially significant when faced with unusually equal opposition as we see between 360 and PS3.

Are you telling me that a situation where in a majority of cases (for multi-platform titles) the 360 version is the one reviewed, its surprising to you that the PS3 sku is losing out?

You can counter-argue that reviewing the version for the platform with the dominant marketshare best serves the interests of your readership, BUT again my issue is that it preserves the hegemony by precedent.

Who's talking about starting trends? Wii/DS/PSP/Kinect have been continually shit on by the press over the long haul. So why has lopsided media coverage so detrimentally and uniquely impacted PS3, but not those platforms which face even harsher media bias?

To be honest I'm not even sure what your argument is anymore, since you've already seemingly backed off the notion of inherent english speaking press bias and moved into the rational idea that a larger maket leads to larger coverage. Why shouldn't the latter be the case exactly?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Does anyone know how PSP did in its first year? I want to know if 3DS has any hope of matching it.

Around 4 million in North America according to a picture on the internet I found, can't vouch for its accuracy. Might be a Gaf poster...

http://www.monroeworld.com/forums/showthread.php?7836-DS-vs-PSP-sales-numbers&p=87739#post87739

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/298452347_ef1266b11b_o.png

 

[CitizenCope]

would need 9.5M first month to do that. Possible, but I don't think it is a lock. BLOPS did 8.4M.

Someone on my friends list on 360 is nearing 6MILLION on the leaderboards in MW3. That was on the 11th of November. Unreal!! The overall numbers for MW3 should easily beat Octobers top 10. Yikes!

 

[Puppet Shadow]

I think the two are so close that any small disparities just don't matter except for a very small demographic of gamers.

Agreed, which probably kept many people from dropping an extra $100 or so on a PS3, unless they really wanted blu-ray.

I've always wondered if the PS3's attach rate is lower due to a lot of folks buying the PS3 for a blu-ray player only. Not now of course, but in the first few years.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

Americans snapped up way more Japanese PS2s than American Xboxs, so not sure how much this point is true, but I agree with the rest of your post.

To expand on that that point: Last gen the xbox came out after the PS2, the PS2 already had an extensive catalog, established franchises from the PS era, huge brand awareness and of course an enormous amount of exclusives. On the flip side, the xbox was the new kid on the block, didn't have nearly enough developer support and was slow to get games out for the first year or so. I also believe the timed exclusive agreement with R* Sony enjoyed was an underrated game changer last gen. Had MS been in that position instead of Sony, I have no doubt MS's original xbox numbers would have been impressive.

Now fast forward to this gen, MS corrected almost all of the disadvantages they experienced last gen while giving the American audience an American product they can stand behind. I'm not attempting to imply that the American consumer's leanings towards nationalistic purchases (made in the USA!) is the only factor at play; I am saying however that I feel it definitely played a role for a good number of NA gamers, especially the older age demographic.
I can say from my firsthand point of view that having a loud voice this gen, being courted & woo'd by the industry catering to my NA tastes - whom up until quite recently viewed the NA gamer as a secondary consideration where games were designed with the Japanese gamer in mind - refreshing and somehow empowering.

I am not trying to imply that MS is solely responsible for the shift and would point to the rise of the Western developer on consoles such as Bioware (KOTOR), Bethesda (Morrowwind), Ubisoft (Splinter Cell) and of course R*. I am however saying that MS gave those developers the platform to succeed outside of the PC market (with the exception of R*) and had a hand in changing the industry to what it is today. Had MS not created a console with the NA market as the priority and had the NA consumer not jumped in, the industry wouldn't have seen such a sudden and dramatic swing of the pendulum.

 

[pixelbox]

Yeah, the media is biased. What about when:
Gamestop only leaves the 360 kiosk on
Publishers swap Ps3 screenshots with 360s
G4TV has a special of how home sucks
Fox has a special on how home is like playing dress-up and Barbies
G4TV starts off MGS4 review with a statement on how PS3 has no game but that
The backlash of KZ2s controls
Gametrailers deliberately spoiling UC2 plot
There's a general knock for being a PS3 exclusive. (COD MW2 single player being short but sweet versus gow3/U2/U3/K2/K3 being too short/weak)
And when reviewers show 360 controllers and buttons through-out the review as if it were an exclusive.

And these are just the small observations...

 

[Sydle]

Yeah, the media is biased. What about when:
Gamestop only leaves the 360 kiosk on
Publishers swap Ps3 screenshots with 360s
G4TV has a special of how home sucks
Fox has a special on how home is like playing dress-up and Barbies
G4TV starts off MGS4 review with a statement on how PS3 has no game but that
The backlash of KZ2s controls
Gametrailers deliberately spoiling UC2 plot
There's a general knock for being a PS3 exclusive. (COD MW2 single player being short but sweet versus gow3/U2/U3/K2/K3 being too short/weak)
And when reviewers show 360 controllers and buttons through-out the review as if it were an exclusive.

And these are just the small observations...

something something selective reading something

 

[pixelbox]

something something selective reading something

I guess...

 

[Clear]

To be honest I'm not even sure what your argument is anymore, since you've already seemingly backed off the notion of inherent english speaking press bias and moved into the rational idea that a larger maket leads to larger coverage. Why shouldn't the latter be the case exactly?

No offense but your reading comprehension is seriously lacking.

I've explicitly stated on two separate occasions that I'm not making any claims of bias in my argument, what I'm talking about is the way the media essentially chooses a particular champion based on perceived popularity and makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy by deprioritizing coverage of the alternatives.

The original choice is made out of self-interest (pander to the largest niche), but it propogates the situation by normalizing that disparity over time.

In simple terms you don't need "moneyhats" to skew coverage because when the media is only going where the money already is. You can't ever make a comeback (be you Dreamcast, N64 or PS3) because the story is already set in stone that you lost.

This is unfortunate for gaming as a whole because good titles don't get the attention they deserve due to them being on the "wrong" platform.

In my opinion this reinforcing effect is at is strongest in cultures where the mass-media has most firmly latched onto the notion of presenting everything as a competition, because in X-Factor/American Idol world, there must be losers as well as winners.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

I guess...

Honestly though, one could make up a list going the other way. Personally, I picked up a big Sony bias from the gaming press when the PS3 came out. I really had the impression they wanted to see the Wii fail, and the 'superior hardware' of the PS3 come out on top.

 

[BurntPork]

Around 4 million in North America according to a picture on the internet I found, can't vouch for its accuracy. Might be a Gaf poster...

http://www.monroeworld.com/forums/showthread.php?7836-DS-vs-PSP-sales-numbers&p=87739#post87739

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/298452347_ef1266b11b_o.png

Hm. Yeah, it would be a long shot for 3DS to match it, sadly.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

what I'm talking about is the way the media essentially chooses a particular champion based on perceived popularity and makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy by deprioritizing coverage of the alternatives.

The problem is the Wii makes your assertion untrue. It 'won' this gen despite being ignored by large parts of the gaming press. It's a good example of 'word of mouth' > press coverage.

 

[JaxJag]

Americans liked Japanese games more last generation too, though.

I've seen it on this forum and outside of it, but lately there seems to be a great feeling against Japanese games/anime/culture in general.

I love the fact that Japanese games have become such a small niche in gaming. I never liked Japanese games/anime, always found them to be annoying. Even embarrassing at times.

 

[Koralsky]

I love the fact that Japanese games have become such a small niche in gaming. I never liked Japanese games/anime, always found them to be annoying. Even embarrassing at times.

...

 

[Vanillalite]

Does anyone know the 3ds life time to date sales world wide and per territory?

 

[Kagari]

I love the fact that Japanese games have become such a small niche in gaming. I never liked Japanese games/anime, always found them to be annoying. Even embarrassing at times.

I am sad for the future ;-;

 

[VerTiGo]

Reading GAF almost affected my better judgment. Nintendo is doomed with the Wii U but even on its death bed the Wii still sells strong. Nintendo still has plans for releases for the next year on Wii. Believe in Last Story and Xenoblade. Zelda may have opened up that market for them.

 

[VerTiGo]

I love the fact that Japanese games have become such a small niche in gaming. I never liked Japanese games/anime, always found them to be annoying. Even embarrassing at times.

That's how I feel about first-person shooters, WRPGs and hollywood cinema.

 

[JB1981]

To expand on that that point: Last gen the xbox came out after the PS2, the PS2 already had an extensive catalog, established franchises from the PS era, huge brand awareness and of course an enormous amount of exclusives. On the flip side, the xbox was the new kid on the block, didn't have nearly enough developer support and was slow to get games out for the first year or so. I also believe the timed exclusive agreement with R* Sony enjoyed was an underrated game changer last gen. Had MS been in that position instead of Sony, I have no doubt MS's original xbox numbers would have been impressive.

Now fast forward to this gen, MS corrected almost all of the disadvantages they experienced last gen while giving the American audience an American product they can stand behind. I'm not attempting to imply that the American consumer's leanings towards nationalistic purchases (made in the USA!) is the only factor at play; I am saying however that I feel it definitely played a role for a good number of NA gamers, especially the older age demographic.
I can say from my firsthand point of view that having a loud voice this gen, being courted & woo'd by the industry catering to my NA tastes - whom up until quite recently viewed the NA gamer as a secondary consideration where games were designed with the Japanese gamer in mind - refreshing and somehow empowering.

I am not trying to imply that MS is solely responsible for the shift and would point to the rise of the Western developer on consoles such as Bioware (KOTOR), Bethesda (Morrowwind), Ubisoft (Splinter Cell) and of course R*. I am however saying that MS gave those developers the platform to succeed outside of the PC market (with the exception of R*) and had a hand in changing the industry to what it is today. Had MS not created a console with the NA market as the priority and had the NA consumer not jumped in, the industry wouldn't have seen such a sudden and dramatic swing of the pendulum.

The Xbox caters to Western tastes and Western devs are more skilled than Japanese and make better games with better tech. Pretty simple. Has nothing to do with nationalism.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

...

I don't get the Homefront reference. What does an American developed game about Korea attacking the US have to do with Japanese games?

The Xbox caters to Western tastes and Western devs are more skilled than Japanese and make better games with better tech. Pretty simple. Has nothing to do with nationalism.

Yet Western gamers have bought more games from a Japanese developer than any other dev this gen.

/shrugs

 

[OldJadedGamer]

you can see it on gamerankings almost every day,many sites don't even review ps3 copies,for example dark souls,it's the freaking sequel to demon's souls,so how can the 360 version have more reviews than the ps3 version?or resident evil 5?or devil may cry 4?

How is this any different than last gen where only the PS2 version was reviewed and the Xbox and GameCube version of Multiplatform games were just copy and paste of those reviews?

 

[pharmboy044]

The Xbox caters to Western tastes and Western devs are more skilled than Japanese and make better games with better tech. Pretty simple. Has nothing to do with nationalism.

Dark Souls!

 

[Puppet Shadow]

How is this any different than last gen where only the PS2 version was reviewed and the Xbox and GameCube version of Multiplatform games were just copy and paste of those reviews?

Dude, the recession hit this gen... people need jobs.

USA! USA! USA!

 

[x3r0123]

so do we know the numbers that dark souls did last month?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The Xbox caters to Western tastes and Western devs are more skilled than Japanese and make better games with better tech. Pretty simple. Has nothing to do with nationalism.

Pretty much. It's part of a long-happening shift, thanks in part, to Japanese publishers themselves who pushed more Western-developed releases onto their own plates at the start of the generation. I mean, some prejudice is always expected to be a part of everything that happens anywhere, but not enough to be whole single digit percentages in influence. Besides, America has always bought more (especially Japanese) import CE devices and software than any other market on the fucking planet since the dawn of these industries. Blame general inflexibility of Japanese corporations and lack of trying harder to better compete with homegrown developers who understand their own market tastes and trends better.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

And these are just the small observations...

Now look back at last gen with those same kinds of judgement and think about how the Xbox and GameCube were treating in relation to the PS2 in stores and the media. Or go a gen past that and how the N64 was treated in the wake of PS1 at stores and in the media. It seems that everyone just started gaming this gen or have ADD and forgot all about every other generation ever.

 

[amdnv]

Who are these folks?

Sony.

 

[bigtroyjon]

The disparity in hardware sales between PS3 & 360 is wild. 14% YOY increase vs 5% decrease? Damn.

360 was up 21%, not 14.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The press previewing and reviewing 360 builds has less to do with bias and much more to do with every dev on the planet stating that it's easier to get code up and running on MS' platform. That reflects the differences in MS' and Sony's design imperatives at the start of the generation, Kutaragi went on record to say that he made the PS3 difficult to develop for to challenge developers, and it blew up in his face with the PS3 getting inferior versions of several notable 3rd party games early in the generation.

- Madden 07/08
- GRAW
- The Orange Box
- Call of Duty 4
- Bioshock
- Rainbow Six Vegas
- Assassin's Creed
- GTA 4

And they were charging a $100-$200 premium for the the privilege of playing these games, sometimes months late, with no achievements to boot.

The European launch was much smoother (there was actually a healthy selection of good games), and they got the cheaper sku from the jump. It's not really a surprise that things turned out for them better there.

Japan is the real aberration, as the PS3 ran circles around the 360 even before it got any decent exclusives, and now regularly outsells it 15:1 despite sharing most of the same AAA games.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Did anyone get Layton 4, Tetris Axis, Kinect Sports 2, Dance Central 2 and/or Kirby Return to Dreamland's NPD sales? (Oh and Kirby Mass Attack's 2nd month too!)

 

[OldJadedGamer]

That reflects the differences in MS' and Sony's design imperatives at the start of the generation, Kutaragi went on record to say that he made the PS3 difficult to develop for to challenge developers, and it blew up in his face with the PS3 getting inferior versions of several notable 3rd party games early in the generation.

It wasn't Kutaragi, it was Kaz. This was the same article where he pronounced the PS3 the "official leadership" in the industry. His quote was:

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"

 

[zero_suit]

That's how I feel about first-person shooters, WRPGs and hollywood cinema.

I concur, with a few exceptions (mainly Valve).

 

[Arnie]

The Xbox caters to Western tastes and Western devs are more skilled than Japanese and make better games with better tech. Pretty simple. Has nothing to do with nationalism.

Spot on.

 

[FateBreaker]

Americans liked Japanese games more last generation too, though.

I've seen it on this forum and outside of it, but lately there seems to be a great feeling against Japanese games/anime/culture in general.

I think that's BS. I understand how you might come to that conclusion, but I don't think that can be quantified. I love JRPGs more than any other day. I just feel that the quality of the games on next-gen has SERIOUSLY dropped. I think that's the bigger issue.

 

[Yo Gotti]

Dark Souls <3

and they said RAGE flopped. HA!

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Japan is the real aberration, as the PS3 ran circles around the 360 even before it got any decent exclusives, and now regularly outsells it 15:1 despite sharing most of the same AAA games.

Microsoft needs to get working on this ASAP.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Sony has to disrupt the console cycle next generation quite frankly. If Microsoft launches in 2013 then I think Sony has to launch a full two years later in 2015 with much more powerful hardware, a strong launch line up, and strong partnerships with third party companies. Next generation will be a repeat in NA if Sony launches one year after the next Microsoft console. Launching a full year after Microsoft with similar hardware is not going to cut it. They've got to break the trend and release a console that differentiates the two.

 

[FateBreaker]

I love the fact that Japanese games have become such a small niche in gaming. I never liked Japanese games/anime, always found them to be annoying. Even embarrassing at times.

-_-