2013 has one more week than 2012, by the way.
DS sales are basically make believe, but NPD (and Media Create) can't prove me wrong since they won't divulge the numbers anyway. Ha!
Fantastic, maybe a 3rd row totaling how much they're down YoY?
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NPD Sales Results for March 2013 [Up5: BioShock Infinite]
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Fantastic, maybe a 3rd row totaling how much they're down YoY?
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Cowen and Company said:
I wonder if those PC sales include sales from online services such as Steam. Because I don't think Steam releases numbers to anyone but the publishers. But I'm glad the game is doing great. A game heavy on story doing this well? I am glad.
Now make a riskier game, Irrational!
They do not include sales from Steam or any other digital distribution outlet.
analysts dont?
I don't know about analysts, but the NPD does not.
Father_Brain
Banned
Eh, I know what you mean from a subjective perspective, but it was overengineered to the point that Sony apparently couldn't afford a price cut until exchange rates made it feasible in one region. That said, software was and remains a much bigger problem than price.
Father_Brain
Banned
2013 has one more week than 2012, by the way.
DS sales are basically make believe, but NPD (and Media Create) can't prove me wrong since they won't divulge the numbers anyway. Ha!
Nice. Will you update this with EU numbers from Nintendo's results?
These numbers just go to show how worthless the "casuals" that make up the majority of the 360/PS3's userbase are. Casuals as in people that just buy and play CoD and Madden every year.
Tomb Raider would have probably sold the same amount when the 360 userbase was half the size it is now.
Tomb Raider would have probably sold the same amount when the 360 userbase was half the size it is now.
It has a much better library in Japan than here, so..
There was also a pricecut in Japan
ohhh ya. I didn't sleep last night...so that can be my excuse.
Refreshment.01
Member
In this case the game was defined by the hardware, not the other way around like it happened for example with Mario 64.
donny, i had a clear idea of the game's multimillion sales in Japan, doesn't rest merit to my argument. Other motion games were well accepted and went on to sell million plus in Japan like Wii Play, Sports Resort or Wii Party for example. You should know this even better than i do since you seem to be very well informed in regards to sales. So the point remains, as long as a game that did a proper job of implementing motion controls was available at launch from Nintendo, the machine would've still become succesful.Somewhat related, Wii Sports sold 3.7m in Japan despite the fact it wasn't bundled.
Continuing with your example and going with it, then the Wii U with NIntendo Land should be an smashing success since it's a game that does a good job demostrating the capabilities of the hardware. But this is not the case, Wii U's hook doesn't come even close to what the Wii offered in it's time. Hence why the repeat Wii strategy is failing here. The hardware concept was what propelled the console and the best selling games where defined by it. ANyways, what you say is also right but not alwys the case. That's what im trying to explain here.
ANd there you go donny other way to explain it, this one less pragmatic and more theorical. So you have the 2 flavors covered now.
shinra-bansho
Member
But then aren't you agreeing the actual game wasn't necessarily important. The sell was in actuality, motion control, communicated by the software title.
The hardware was required to deliver that concept, the software was required to communicate that concept. But the core concept, the selling point, was motion control and it resonated with consumers. Any piece of software communicating that concept well could have served in Wii Sports' stead.
Similarly, a list of specs doesn't really sell a new console to consumers, if it's selling on the premise of being a "next generation!!!!" system - an upgrade to their current system. But the hardware needs to be there to provide a basis for this argument, which needs to be communicated via software showing how it's an upgrade. And the core premise - an upgrade - must be something that people actually want.
If the core premise upon which the hardware is designed isn't something people want, no software title communicating that premise is going to sell the system. This goes for the tablet, this goes for the Durango and PS4. Nintendo Land is there to communicate the concept, but the core concept simply isn't broadly appealing.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
I think creamsugar indicated it was over 600k so I'd say almost certainly.
3DS is the same way
By wording my last post positively it made it confusing. I perhaps should have said I was surprised that, given how low Vita sales are in Japan, it could be over 3x lower in NA. I was forgetting that Vita was actually selling reasonably well in Japan over the past month.
Sony has been doing that for a long time. Trying to sell Memory Sticks at inflated costs.
It's non essential, everyone has WLAN nowadays. Still annoying, but it was more of an issue with the Wii to be honest. No optical-out is also understandable (no HW mixing chip) yet frustrating.
Yeah, running a big gaming company isn't as easy as it looks. The Vita is in a tight spot, but Sony needs to focus on the PS4 (Which May Not Fail) so I suspect they just try to keep it on life support and hope for the best.
What about consumers who want the superior option? I have my consoles and pc connected via Ethernet because that provides me best performance in my online games.
Nintendo not even giving gamers this basic function is mind boggling and cheap.
Not Necessarily. Bioshock 2 was reported to have sold "over 750k" back in Feb 2010. We know from that month's NPD that the 360 version sold 560k copies on its own, representing about 75% of the total sales. If the series is still heavily skewed towards 360 owners (like a lot of shooters), the 360 version might have edged out Gears.
The hardware played a much more obvious critical role in Wii Sports success than Mario 64's, I'd agree. I'd say the Nintendo 64's ability to create a full 3-D world for Mario was possibly more important than analog controls were to its success. Wii's power wasn't critical to Wii Sports's success, but the motion controls were, yeah.
I don't like the idea of just slotting any other motion control game with just good enough controls causing the Wii to take off like it did, but it didn't have to be Wii Sports alone, no.
Okay, good. There's been a repeated theory that Wii Sports wasn't the catalyst to Wii sales, since it was bundled, so the consumer didn't have a choice, and the Japanese situation is often brought up to refute that stance. You recognized that Wii Sports wasn't bundled in Japan, so just wanted to make sure the sales situation was well-known, too. For the record, the attach rate for Wii Sports through early 2008, when the system started tailing off significantly in Japan, was 50%, so for every two Wiis sold, there was one copy of Wii Sports sold. (2.96m Wii Sports to 5.93m Wiis as of May 4, 2008 in Media Create.)
Not just any game, but, yes, it didn't have to be Wii Sports particularly. Just my personal opinion but from that list, I'd say Wii Sports Resort would the be most likely one. Wii Play, while a decently fun time-waster personally speaking, didn't seem to really capture people's attention. Don't have much experience with Wii Party to say either way, from my personal perspective.
I didn't say that. Haven't even thought that. Nintendo Land never seemed to be as easy to "get" as Wii Sports, to me. I thought it'd be a good trojan horse to introduce people to Nintendo's franchises, but it always seem much more like a Wii Play to me than a Wii Sports.
As mentioned in the response to shinra-bansho below, I'm not weighing in on the appeal of the tablet controller. It doesn't excite me, but I'm not everyone. To go back to the Wii example, motion controls didn't excite me. Being able to play bowling anytime I wanted to (and not just in some abstract, "push a button to bowl" way) without trying to find some lanes, putting on someone else's shoes, and being embarrassed for guttering fairly often was exciting for me.
It's always about the games (for the mainstream). The hardware has varying levels in how much it influences the games (Wii hardware being way more influential than most, I'd agree), but the same hardware paired with just any game wouldn't necessarily result in sales like Wii saw. I do agree that it didn't have to be Wii Sports as that game paired with Wii, though.
No, not at all. That's ridiculous. Of course what game it was mattered. Refreshment.01 said "it could have been any other Nintendo game that applied the concept of motion controls well enough." "Well enough" was interpreted by me as implying a game that would've been as well received by the mainstream as Wii Sports. If his theory was that Generic Motion Game #3 with good controls was "well enough," but not necessarily something as widely loved by the public, then of course, the Wii wouldn't have sold out of the gate like it did. It also really helped that it was about immediately recognizable actions that almost anyone would be familiar with. That really was a key component to it resonating with the public. That's something Nintendo Land directly lacks, for example.
As there seems to be a failure to communicate here, it's just worth saying that it depends on your definition of "well enough." For example, I do not think that Boom Blox, though a fun concept in an abstract game world that used motion controls to a point, could've carried the Wii to the levels it did.
Wii Sports had
1) Immediately familiar real-world fun activities that could now be played anytime at home. (convenience)
2) Mii characters to bring a personal touch to the game. i.e. Seeing yourself and your loved ones playing the games on the TV was great fun. (personally identifiable)
3) Motion controls that made it easy to pick up and play for a novice but really shined when someone who had skills with the real-world activity tried using it, too. (easy to learn, difficult to master)
Could another game with as much inherent public appeal, thorough use of motion controls, and well-crafted design have carried the Wii in Wii Sports place? Very possibly, but it would not have just been any game that used motion controls "well enough" in the controls alone.
No, not really. It is about the games. If the games they want are only available on that system, then their desire for the games is what will dictate their desire to purchase the system. If it doesn't have any unique games that they can't already get on their current system, then the mainstream will shrug their shoulders and buy games on the system they already have. Or if they don't have a system and the games aren't desirable, they'll just shrug it off as another thing they're not interested in.
Now, I don't think you're using the term in this way, but if by "upgrade" you meant new games they couldn't get anywhere else that they wanted, then yes, because it is about the games. Again, I don't think that's how you're trying to use the term, but I could be wrong.
Yes, exactly. If the games aren't appealing (in this hypothetical example because the premise the game is built on is not appealing), it doesn't matter what the hardware can/can't do (as far as games go).
I'm not going to weigh in on the tablet concept of the Wii U. It's not something that excites me, but I'm not everyone. If I get a Wii U, it'll be because I consider it worth whatever the cost is at that point to be able to play the games I'd want to play on it. It won't be because I just have to use a tablet controller, though. As said above, Wii's appeal to me wasn't just about the motion controls, but about the games with Wii Sports happen to be using those motion controls in an appealing way. Just swinging my arms around wasn't a selling point, though.
Neuromancer
Member
Almost a million across 3 platforms... I suppose thats a success although it did take 6 years to develop, so...
Edit: projected 4.5 million year one sales is probably pretty good
Edit: projected 4.5 million year one sales is probably pretty good
That's how I have all my networkable devices. All hooked up to the home gigabit network. Well except things like phones and tablets. Really don't trust wireless.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
It's patently illogical to think that spending more money on a sequel will linearly lead to bigger first day sales. Customers can't play your budget. They see an add, they say "oh, a new Bioshock/Tomb Raider." There is nothing in said ad that would suddenly balloon the franchise from 4 million to 8 million units sold. A few of the big exceptions are Modern Warfare and Assassin's Creed 3, which showed particularly large growth because of the time period change that is very obvious when pushing the game. Or Red Dead Redemption, which got the GTA makeover.
If From Software or CD Project were to announce tomorrow that they expect 10 million in sales from their new RPGs because they have a new graphics engine they would be laughed at.
Irrational just beat the launch of Bioshock 1 about 2x over, and take 2 is going to be disappointed by that? Their business model is broken and their expectations are comical.
shinra-bansho
Member
I agree with most of this, it all fits into what I think entails communicating the concept well though. Would something abstract have communicated the concept as well, no. Although, I don't know how much people actually cared about the Mii characters.
In a sense, I am. I use the term upgrade and games communicating said upgrade in the sense that the software communicates the idea of games not possible on the previous system - and that can only really be done if the hardware facilitates such software.
I don't think they necessarily need to be games they can't get anywhere else/on their current systems, so much as they need to be perceived as games they can't play on their current systems i.e. I don't think it would have mattered if (much crappier) versions of Gears of War or Bioshock had come out on the XBOX/PS2 as well, and similarly it won't matter that Destiny or Battlefield 4 come out on the PS3 and 360 as well; if Sony and/or Microsoft can communicate the idea that the "next gen" versions of these games are suitably beyond those older consoles' SKUs.
And again, I'm referring to the early phase of a transition to a new cycle. I'm not sure how you're defining mainstream, and whether your definition entails those generally at the forefront of new console adoption.
Do you think people would have transitioned to the PS1 from the SNES, if there was no communication of the idea that "these games aren't possible on your SNES"? Or to the PS2 from the PS1?
As above, I agree it was the concept and the execution/communication of that concept, swinging one's arms to enact recognizable actions like to bowl or play tennis.Yes, exactly. If the games aren't appealing (in this hypothetical example because the premise the game is built on is not appealing), it doesn't matter what the hardware can/can't do (as far as games go).
I'm not going to weigh in on the tablet concept of the Wii U. It's not something that excites me, but I'm not everyone. If I get a Wii U, it'll be because I consider it worth whatever the cost is at that point to be able to play the games I'd want to play on it. It won't be because I just have to use a tablet controller, though. As said above, Wii's appeal to me wasn't just about the motion controls, but about the games with Wii Sports happen to be using those motion controls in an appealing way. Just swinging my arms around wasn't a selling point, though.
Remember Deus Ex HR is coming to Wii U, for some reason? Wonder how if it will fare better than NFS.
It's a 2 year late port that will likely have no advertising, in a series never on Nintendo platforms. It's coming in the same month of Lego Batman 2, another year late port, and Sniper V2, another year late port, and RE: Rev, another year late (albeit multiplatform) port.
It's a 2 year late port that will likely have no advertising, in a series never on Nintendo platforms. It's coming in the same month of Lego Batman 2, another year late port, and Sniper V2, another year late port, and RE: Rev, another year late (albeit multiplatform) port.
ambientmystic
Member
Re:Rev should do nicely amongst all the games in your list; being a day and date release with the other consoles should help bolster its numbers. To what extent though, is pretty much unknown.
Shouldn't be too difficult to surpass that 10k number set by NFS lol.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
10k is a fair round up, mind you...
Your generally looking around 6-8k sales for most games per month, outside a couple focused launch titles
Your generally looking around 6-8k sales for most games per month, outside a couple focused launch titles
From a practical standpoint, it removed the question from the non-gamer of "Which character am I, again?" For me and the people I played with, seeing recognizable characters in the background, as the player, cheering, in the baseball field, in the stands, etc. was a treat. It made the NPCs "real" because you knew them. I know some people didn't spend much time making Miis, and I really feel they missed out on a lot of the fun of the system. From my experience, people enjoyed recognizing themselves and loved ones on the TV inside the game, and it made the game feel more personal, as a result, since it wasn't just meaningless NPCs standing around.
From a more objective standpoint, Tomodachi Collection was a Sims type game all about people's Miis, and it sold 3.7m in Japan.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Not generally at the forefront, no. They were with Wii, but that's not the generally the case.
Going back to Nintendo now and the Wii U, I guess I view Nintendo's "core" as much more mainstream-leaning due to the more "everyone" games that are hallmarks of a Nintendo console. Being a more mainstream-leaning "core" would thus make them more price sensitive than a less mainstream-leaning "core" which may be more prevalent on the Sony/Microsoft consoles. Maybe that's why I think $350 is much too high for a Nintendo console when it's less than either Microsoft or Sony launched at last gen?
They had to get across that the games were different. Now the simplest way to do that in the SNES-PS1/N64 era transition is to show that the PS1/N64 could do 3-D games, since that was something SNES didn't do much of and definitely not to the detail of PS1/N64. If PS1/N64 had focused on 2-D games with more colors/sprites, but that otherwise looked like SNES games, the transition would've taken longer, I think. Not sure if that's exactly what you're looking for, though. For PS2, it was also a DVD player at the time that DVD players were new and expensive. That made the system more attractive, too, besides having more detailed 3-D games. That Fall 2001 lineup of Metal Gear Solid 2, Grand Theft Auto 3, and Final Fantasy X really drove home the "you have to have a PS2 to have these games" idea, though.
Aquamarine
Member
Well as of last month:
February 2013 Top 15 Wii U Software NPD
1. New Super Mario Bros. U (LTD sales are >100k)
2. Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed (LTD sales are >100k)
3. Scribblenauts Unlimited (LTD sales are >100k)
4. ZombiU (LTD sales are >100k)
5. Call of Duty: Black Ops II
6. Just Dance 4 (LTD sales are >100k)
7. Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition
8. Skylanders Giants Wii U
9. Disney Epic Mickey 2: The Power of Two
10. Wipeout 3
11. Assassin's Creed III
12. ESPN Sports Connection
13. Marvel Avengers: Battle for Earth
14. SiNG PARTY
15. Rabbids Land
But I too would like to see an updated Wii U >100K list + a top-15 / top-20 list if possible!
Horse Armour
Member
Wow! Is this worse than the Vita was at the same time after launch?
Harker also said NSMB U has about a 70% attach ratio or so and if Wii U is at 1 million that gives us a ballpark of 700,000-ish.
prag16
Banned
Don't forget about the big price cut in Japan recently for Vita either.
Father_Brain
Banned
At ~30K for the month, how has Mirror of Fate not bomba bin'd yet? I'd think that perhaps the first shipment was pretty small, but nearly every store I've visited seems to have multiple copies in stock,
creamsugar
Member
Pickachu XL + 500 = Vita
Vita: bundle ~ 64%
gowa bundle ~ 63k
bio: 360 67%, ps3 33%
tr: 360 54%, ps3 46%
Vita: bundle ~ 64%
gowa bundle ~ 63k
bio: 360 67%, ps3 33%
tr: 360 54%, ps3 46%
WAT.... WTF is Sony using for hardware these days? Glue and paper clips? I guess when they go cheap they don't fuck around. LOL.
Yeah, it seems now it was the major thing preventing 3DS from having another negative month year-over-year, considering it sold ~34k (obviously it isn't as simple, since there are people who might still have bought a 3DS regardless, but opted for the Pikachu one).
They could try more special editions, I guess, and postpone the price drop to the holiday season.
Aquamarine
Member
Keep the news coming, based Creamsugar. <3
Not surprising.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I wonder how much they paid to have Big Daddy in PSABR.
TR's performance just says Lara should have been in PSABR over Big Daddy.
Even with certain franchises that are released on multiple platforms, there always seems to be cases like these (a la FFXIII PS3 & 360)
Will this trend continue into next gen?
There is the Animal Crossing XL in June.
I wonder how that will do. If there aren't stock issues I imagine it will put up very good numbers, maybe even 50k if marketed properly and the stock is there.
mentalfloss
Banned
I don't think Bioshock sold enough for 2k to break even.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I'm actually astonished that BioShock 2 sold as much as it did...it nearly sold as much as Infinite.
I wonder if Take 2 thinks the sales are good...I mean, they're certainly not terrible.
Can't understand how Tomb Raider sales were disappointing, given how it was the series best?
I wonder if Take 2 thinks the sales are good...I mean, they're certainly not terrible.
Can't understand how Tomb Raider sales were disappointing, given how it was the series best?
Basileus777
Member
Bioshock 2 was a timely release that came when Bioshock was still in recent memory. Infinite came years late and at the end of the generation when software sales are declining and fatigue has set in.
Aquamarine
Member
Considering Infinite's long, troubled development (which must be quite costly), I don't think 2K is leaping for joy at the current state of Bioshock Infinite's sales.
For Tomb Raider, sales are disappointing because Square Enix fucked up with budgeting and WAY overestimated the strength of the Tomb Raider IP. They needed like 4.5 million shipments to break even.
How much you want to bet Tomb Raider 2013 cost about as much as a few of the previous ones combined?