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[Scottlarock]

Hey everybody, it's a strawman party!!!

I have a dream that ps3 will rain supreme/ shurs chants

 

[Shurs]

You are counting all the 360 hardware since 2005 yet only counting the software since 2008. That's not a trend, its a fallacious argument.

The 360 owners bought way more software than PS3 owners in 2007. Since that time, the average PS3 owner has bought more games than the average 360 owner. Therefore, the argument that PS3 owners don't buy software is simply not true.

What's fucked up is how everyone got it, except for you.

 

[AnIco]

Talk about tie ratios all you want but the trend going forward is in the PS3's favor.

Just look at the Madden and Batman figures. Madden used to straight up dominate on the 360 over the PS3, and yet the PS3 is gaining share each year and I believe the 360 went down. There's not much separating the two this year, despite the 360 having twice the userbase.

It's definitely getting closer as each year passes, and worldwide a lot of studios make more money on the PS3 than the 360 for software.

 

[duk]

npd is serious biz to some of u lol

 

[Jewbacca]

Alright.

The Batman game was featured on most live demos in Walmart and Target stores for the PS3. Im pretty fucking sure that created the rift between the 360 and PS3 version. Hell I didnt even know it was coming out for the 360 till it actually did. (I didnt care enough to read.. lump me into the casual sector)

But anyways... the demo was impressive and I am pretty sure that attributed to the sales difference. So quit with this OMG OMG SEE LOOK DER IT OUTSOLD 360 PS3 GAMES SELL. If that was the case what the fuck happened to Rockband The Beatles (for ps3), or Madden ect ect.

 

[Version 3.0]

You can not count the LTD hardware sales and then only count a certain timeframe of the software sales. If the hardware sales are LTD, then you do the same to the software sales. You can't just pick and choose what timeframes are convient for your argument.

Well, sure you can. People don't buy a console and some games and then stop purchasing forever. People who bought a 360 in 2008 can and do buy games in 2009. Comparing this month's software sales and taking into account the number of potential buyers (ie. the total number of people who own each system) is perfectly reasonable, at least just as a simple observation.

But there's a simple fact about larger install bases: they're made up of a more varied demographic. Using a stat such as "the 360 version didn't sell 2x the PS3 version" as an indication of their relative health is a distortion. That isn't how it works. Of course the 360's double-size demographic isn't made up of double the number of enthusiasts. It's reached a saturation point with that portion of its demographic. It's actually surprising how concentrated and uniform the 360's core demographic is, considering its size.

 

[Scottlarock]

The 360 owners bought way more software than PS3 owners in 2007. Since that time, the average PS3 owner has bought more games than the average 360 owner. Therefore, the argument that PS3 owners don't buy software is simply not true.

What's fucked up is how everyone got it, except for you.

as a software maker if I had to choose between making a game between 360 and ps3, who would I choose... hmmmm the average since 2007 or the console that has them beat almost 2-1 in 3rd party sales this year... hmmmm by console by consoles ps3 is doing alright, since 2007 but in general 360 is still kicking their ass...hmmmmm who to make a game for...hmmmm need some help here....

 

[Version 3.0]

Therefore, the argument that PS3 owners don't buy software is simply not true.

I missed the part where anyone made that argument.

 

[Snipes424]

Alright.

The Batman game was featured on most live demos in Walmart and Target stores for the PS3. Im pretty fucking sure that created the rift between the 360 and PS3 version. Hell I didnt even know it was coming out for the 360 till it actually did. (I didnt care enough to read.. lump me into the casual sector)

But anyways... the demo was impressive and I am pretty sure that attributed to the sales difference. So quit with this OMG OMG SEE LOOK DER IT OUTSOLD 360 PS3 GAMES SELL. If that was the case what the fuck happened to Rockband The Beatles (for ps3), or Madden ect ect.

Is this a meltdown? Or nerd rage?

 

[Scottlarock]

Since 2008 PS3 has sold more software per console than the 360.

Sigh. It's simple math, really. And your chart is irrelevant. /shurs

if it doens't fit its

[Sigh. It's simple math, really. And your chart is irrelevant. ]

 

[OldJadedGamer]

If there are two 360s for every one PS3, and each console owner bought one game each, the 360 should sell 2 pieces of software to every 1 piece sold on the PS3. This hasn't been the case since 2007.

So when the PS2 had 9 times the user base of the original Xbox did PS2 software sell 9X the amount?

Just look at the Madden and Batman figures. Madden used to straight up dominate on the 360 over the PS3, and yet the PS3 is gaining share each year and I believe the 360 went down. There's not much separating the two this year, despite the 360 having twice the userbase.

It's definitely getting closer as each year passes, and worldwide a lot of studios make more money on the PS3 than the 360 for software.

Again, console owners tend to favor exclusives for their systems. In September, that was Halo ODST so the vast major of console owners for that system picked the exclusive game over multiplatform (proven by ODST's massive numbers).

Now when we look at October, you will see that Uncharted will rank higher and pretty much every multiplatform PS3 game will under perform because of it. Borderlands and Brutal Legend on PS3 will have lower sales because if PS3 owners can pick up just one game in October, they are going with the exclusive.

Just like it happened on 360 in September with Halo ODST.

 

[Scottlarock]

as a software maker, who would you make software for? the red isn't looking so good.

 

[Thetallywacker]

as a software maker if I had to choose between making a game between 360 and ps3, who would I choose... hmmmm the average since 2007 or the console that has them beat almost 2-1 in 3rd party sales this year... hmmmm by console by consoles ps3 is doing alright, since 2007 but in general 360 is still kicking their ass...hmmmmm who to make a game for...hmmmm need some help here....

Make a game for the system that best fit the market. If it's a FPS or some low budget game that gets in the holiday bundle to brag about tie in ratios. Than the 360 is for you. Sports would be best if on both and unusual games would fit PS3. Adventure/Platforming/RPG's or anything that is designed for world appeal you'd have to choose between the Wii or PS3. If you make for both, it wont always go perfect on both systems. Strictly done for the money grab.

 

[Scottlarock]

Make a game for the system that best fit the market. If it's a FPS or some low budget game that gets in the holiday bundle to brag about tie in ratios. Than the 360 is for you. Sports would be best if on both and unusual games would fit PS3. Adventure/Platforming/RPG's or anything that is designed for world appeal you'd have to choose between the Wii or PS3. If you make for both, it wont always go perfect on both systems. Strictly done for the money grab.

rpgs?

 

[pswii60]

Since 2008 PS3 has sold more software per console than the 360.

That's perfectly normal. When an installl base increases, more and more of those are consoles are owned by casual gamers who don't buy so many games. When (or if) the PS3 install base doubles in the US to hit the current 360 level, you'll see a similar drop-off in ratio.

 

[jvm]

Article is in the system and will get posted tomorrow, if all goes well. I hope to be around to make a thread about it, but work and all.

See you guys tomorrow.

 

[Kenka]

Article is in the system and will get posted tomorrow, if all goes well. I hope to be around to make a thread about it, but work and all.

See you guys tomorrow.

Thanks for all

 

[knitoe]

I generally buy multi games on X360 because like controller more, but if I were to buy Batman AA, no doubt I'll buy it for PS3. Joker DLC makes a big difference. I am pretty sure others with X360 / PS3 would feel the same way. Thus, not surprise PS3 doing similiar numbers.

Cantwait for MW2, Ass Creed 2 and other multi game numbers.

 

[gofreak]

as a software maker if I had to choose between making a game between 360 and ps3, who would I choose..

as a software maker, who would you make software for? the red isn't looking so good.

What on earth are you blubbering on about?

Pubs aren't in a position that they have to choose between these systems. The port cost between each is so small and the audience significant enough on each that in 99% of cases they're going to cover BOTH consoles with the same game. As you see happening. If you're going to make a HD game, the ROI from ports makes them irresistable, so you see them supporting both in the vast majority of cases.

360 and PS3 couldn't be further from being rivals for publisher investment. You pretty much by default get both into the bargain once you make the initial choice to go HD.

Anyway, if you want the best indicator of the health of each platform for third party business, then look at third party financials. I think you'll find PS3 typically more than pulls its weight.

 

[szaromir]

So when the PS2 had 9 times the user base of the original Xbox did PS2 software sell 9X the amount?



Again, console owners tend to favor exclusives for their systems.

I don't agree, they prefer to buy big franchises over the smaller ones. COD4 got the biggest spike from the PS3Slim release in the UK, because it's apparently 'the' game to get if you have an HD console. Whether it's on another console doesn't really matter.

In the case of last month, ODST indeed took some sales from multiplatform games on 360. But really, Batman AA on PS3 outsold the 360 version by less than 18k copies, while all other multiplatform games follow the usual trend. There shouldn't be much discussion about it IMO - other than the fact that all versions combined, the game hit 1M copies in the US. That's a big success and perhaps it'll sell some more in October.

 

[Paracelsus]

rpgs?

Wrpgs 360, Jrpgs PS3. The average (and I'm being kind here, with this average) 70-100k copies a Jrpg sells in the US can be easily done either on a 15mln base ora a 8 mln one. On the other hand in Japan...

Anyway, best thing is to make both genres multiplatform from the get-go, but anyway.

 

[micromagic]

as a software maker, who would you make software for? the red isn't looking so good.

A 'software maker' wouldn't just be limited to the US market.

 

[Pureauthor]

Actually, jRPGs go to the DS right now.

 

[DangerousDave]

Actually, jRPGs go to the DS right now.

Well, I think that next year are coming like a dozen jrpg for PS3 (in US, some of them already released in Japan).

 

[manueldelalas]

OK, this is getting retarded.

Personally I don't think U2 will sell more than 300k for October; the first game didn't even crack the top 20 in the first month (it was "uncharted"), and the public awareness was pretty much the same as the sequel. I'm thinking of 250-300k in the first month.

I think Ratchet will not even be in the top 10, the first one sold like shit and is not really the kind of game PS3 owners look for.

Then "a dozen of RPGs coming for PS3 next year" is not saying much; the only relevant one I can think of is FFXIII (and I really don't think VS will get released in 2010); and there are the ports, Vesperia and SO4, which I don't really see as relevant. Oh and maybe some WKC sequel will get released, and a couple of NIS games.

I don't think Forza 3 will sell very well in the first month, I'm thinking 300k ish.

 

[DMeisterJ]

OK, this is getting retarded.

Personally I don't think U2 will sell more than 300k for October; the first game didn't even crack the top 20 in the first month (it was "uncharted"), and the public awareness was pretty much the same as the sequel. I'm thinking of 250-300k in the first month.

I think Ratchet will not even be in the top 10, the first one sold like shit and is not really the kind of game PS3 owners look for.

Then "a dozen of RPGs coming for PS3 next year" is not saying much; the only relevant one I can think of is FFXIII (and I really don't think VS will get released in 2010); and there are the ports, Vesperia and SO4, which I don't really see as relevant. Oh and maybe some WKC sequel will get released, and a couple of NIS games.

I don't think Forza 3 will sell very well in the first month, I'm thinking 300k ish.

Im thinking 650-750k for Uncharted 2 first month, and about 300k for Forza 3 (only 1 week). Wii Fit Plus is going to be the real doozy next month. Will people upgrade cause it's only 20 bucks? Even when it's only a marginal update? Does that matter? I have no idea, so I don't know what it will do.

 

[AniHawk]

Uncharted 2 has had a pretty big marketing campaign and lots of buzz. Killzone 2 and infamous both managed to hit the top ten despite coming out at the end of the month. Uncharted 2 will do very well, and I don't think those 600k estimates are too far off, though 400k-500k may be more reasonable.

R&C doesn't have much of a chance of charting. It's coming in too late and it's getting overshadowed by Naughty Dog's latest thing.

 

[szaromir]

R&C doesn't have much of a chance of charting. It's coming in too late and it's getting overshadowed by Naughty Dog's latest thing.

Plus I don't think it's doing anything to expand its audience.

 

[DangerousDave]

Then "a dozen of RPGs coming for PS3 next year" is not saying much; the only relevant one I can think of is FFXIII (and I really don't think VS will get released in 2010); and there are the ports, Vesperia and SO4, which I don't really see as relevant. Oh and maybe some WKC sequel will get released, and a couple of NIS games.

Well, it was a reply to "Actually, jRPGs go to the DS right now."

And, yes, a lot of jRPG goes to DS, but it seems that finally the PS3 is going to be the JRPG home console (compensating the lack of JRPG of the first years). But 360 will have also much more JRPG than in the previous gen, that is something good for the users, even if it seems that it won't be the main JRPG home console anymore.

About relevant RPG next year, i count also Nier and End of Eternity (Resonance of Fate). I think that White Knight Chronicles will be also quite relevant, with all the improvements from the original jap version. Also, who knows, maybe FF XIII Vs will arrive in 2010, even if it's in Q4.

 

[AniHawk]

Plus I don't think it's doing anything to expand its audience.

Yeah, Sony's not doing it any favors by keeping it PS3 exclusive.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Im thinking 650-750k for Uncharted 2 first month, and about 300k for Forza 3 (only 1 week). Wii Fit Plus is going to be the real doozy next month. Will people upgrade cause it's only 20 bucks? Even when it's only a marginal update? Does that matter? I have no idea, so I don't know what it will do.

I think Forza will be higher, but the order's right. And Liberty City Stories will probably squinch in between them.

 

[[Nintex]]

Im thinking 650-750k for Uncharted 2 first month, and about 300k for Forza 3 (only 1 week). Wii Fit Plus is going to be the real doozy next month. Will people upgrade cause it's only 20 bucks? Even when it's only a marginal update? Does that matter? I have no idea, so I don't know what it will do.

There are about as many Wii Fit boards out there as there are PS3's so I'm guessing it'll be a grudge match between Wii Fit Plus and Uncharted 2.

 

[Road]

Per "official sources":

01. (360) HALO 3: ODST (360) - 1.52M
02. (WII) WII SPORTS RESORT W/ WII MOTION PLUS (WII) - 442.9K
03. (360) MADDEN NFL 10 (360) - 289.6K
04. (NDS) MARIO & LUIGI:BOWSER'S INSIDE STORY (NDS) - 258.1K
05. (360) THE BEATLES:ROCK BAND* (360) - 254.0K
06. (PS3) MADDEN NFL 10 - 246.5K
07. (360) MARVEL:ULTIMATE ALLIANCE 2 - 236.0K
08. (PS3) BATMAN:ARKHAM ASYLUM* - 212.5K
09. (360) GUITAR HERO 5* - 210.8K
10. (WII) THE BEATLES:ROCK BAND* - 208.6K
11. (360) BATMAN:ARKHAM ASYLUM* - 202.0K - 208.6K
12. (NDS) KINGDOM HEARTS 358/2 DAYS 194.0k - 208.6k
13. (NDS) SCRIBBLENAUTS - 194.0K
14. (360) NHL 10
15. (360) NEED FOR SPEED: SHIFT
16. (PS3) NEED FOR SPEED: SHIFT
17. (PS3) MARVEL: ULTIMATE ALLIANCE 2
18. (NDS) PROFESSOR LAYTON: DIABOLICAL BOX
19. (WII) WII FIT (W/ BALANCE BOARD)* - 134K.0
20. (PS3) THE BEATLES: ROCK BAND* - 132.4K

Outside top 20:

(PSP) GRAN TURISMO - 18.0k
(WII) DEAD SPACE: EXTRACTION - 9.0k

Miscellaneous:

(PS3) NINJA GAIDEN SIGMA 2 < 38.0K

(PSP) SOUL CALIBUR: BROKEN DESTINY < 26.0K
(PSP) PERSONA < 23.0K
(PSP) MOTORSTORM ARTIC EDGE < 3.0K

(WII) MURAMASA: THE DEMON BLADE: > 35K
(WII) SPYBORGS < 1K


GT PSP and Dead Space Extraction confirmation: http://www.edge-online.com/news/npd-dead-space-extraction-sells-9000-in-september

 

[m.i.s.]

:lol :lol

Gotta love the armchair CEOs on this forum. How in the world could you possibly know this or make any sort of evaluation on it? The industry has been going like this for the past 2 decades, what's changed other than it's larger and producing more revenue than ever before?

Not that you were responding to me, but when, in the past 2 decades, did a market leader launch a $600 console (or its equivalent), create huge loss leaders and 3rd parties fail to launch product for the market leading console or put in place an effective alternative strategy if the market went awry - as has happened with the Wii?

 

[lowrider007]

Per "official sources":

(PSP) SOUL CALIBUR: BROKEN DESTINY < 26.0K
(PSP) PERSONA < 23.0K
(PSP) MOTORSTORM ARTIC EDGE < 3.0K

That still makes me sad :-(, such a good game, I hope it's a slow burner at least.

 

[freitax]

OK, this is getting retarded.

Personally I don't think U2 will sell more than 300k for October; the first game didn't even crack the top 20 in the first month (it was "uncharted"), and the public awareness was pretty much the same as the sequel. I'm thinking of 250-300k in the first month.

I think Ratchet will not even be in the top 10, the first one sold like shit and is not really the kind of game PS3 owners look for.

Then "a dozen of RPGs coming for PS3 next year" is not saying much; the only relevant one I can think of is FFXIII (and I really don't think VS will get released in 2010); and there are the ports, Vesperia and SO4, which I don't really see as relevant. Oh and maybe some WKC sequel will get released, and a couple of NIS games.

I don't think Forza 3 will sell very well in the first month, I'm thinking 300k ish.

Hasn't uncharted 2 like done 400k in its first week? and 300k on its first day? So how you suppose it's going to end up in 300k by the end of the month?

EDIT: ^ Ignore the above.

 

[jax (old)]

Uncharted 2 has had a pretty big marketing campaign and lots of buzz. Killzone 2 and infamous both managed to hit the top ten despite coming out at the end of the month. Uncharted 2 will do very well, and I don't think those 600k estimates are too far off, though 400k-500k may be more reasonable.

R&C doesn't have much of a chance of charting. It's coming in too late and it's getting overshadowed by Naughty Dog's latest thing.

to be honest, I don't even know if I want to buy the new R+C. Not hyped for it AT ALL.

/shrug.

 

[lowrider007]

Hasn't uncharted 2 like done 400k in its first week? and 300k on its first day? So how you suppose it's going to end up in 300k by the end of the month?

wow that's pretty impressive but where are you getting those number from ?, if true UC2 could really have a good chance at being @ the no1 spot next month.

 

[manueldelalas]

Hasn't uncharted 2 like done 400k in its first week? and 300k on its first day? So how you suppose it's going to end up in 300k by the end of the month?

Well, if you want to discuss chartzz numbers; I think you are in the wrong forum.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I'm not sure what to think with uncharted. The original had very mediocre sales in the US however the sequel is apparently a lot better and actually has a strong advertising campaign.

I think it will perform similar to KZ2 in that it will outsell the original but not by anywhere near as much as people on here are hoping.

That still makes me sad :-(, such a good game, I hope it's a slow burner at least.

I don't understand this logic applied to alot of PSP games. Motorstorm on the PSP is just a much shittier version than the one on the PS3, i think it sold 3K more than it deserved.

Devs need to learn to actually make their games different on handhelds. If your game is nothing but a dumbed down PS2/PS3 game than it will struggle most likely.

 

[AniHawk]

to be honest, I don't even know if I want to buy the new R+C. Not hyped for it AT ALL.

/shrug.

Uh, it's R&C which automatically makes it the PS3's best game this year AND it has a time travel component which makes it the best game ever.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Talk about tie ratios all you want but the trend going forward is in the PS3's favor.

Just look at the Madden and Batman figures. Madden used to straight up dominate on the 360 over the PS3, and yet the PS3 is gaining share each year and I believe the 360 went down. There's not much separating the two this year, despite the 360 having twice the userbase.

It's definitely getting closer as each year passes, and worldwide a lot of studios make more money on the PS3 than the 360 for software.

So this post is either accidentally or deliberately ignoring the > 2:1 ratios for Guitar Hero 5, Rock Band Beatles, Marvel UA2, and NHL 10, and the fact that 360 owners just bought more copies of ODST in a single month than nearly all of Sony's 2009 exclusives combined.

I wonder which.

 

[legend166]

That still makes me sad :-(, such a good game, I hope it's a slow burner at least.

There's really no chance of that happening when a title bombs that hard. There's just no way retailers will order any more product. They'll slash the price and that'll be the end of it.

It sorta sucks, but it's the way the retail model works.

 

[lowrider007]

I'm not sure what to think with uncharted. The original had very mediocre sales in the US however the sequel is apparently a lot better and actually has a strong advertising campaign.

I think it will perform similar to KZ2 in that it will outsell the original but not by anywhere near as much as people on here are hoping.



I don't understand this logic applied to alot of PSP games. Motorstorm on the PSP is just a much shittier version than the one on the PS3, i think it sold 3K more than it deserved.

Devs need to learn to actually make their games different on handhelds. If your game is nothing but a dumbed down PS2/PS3 game than it will struggle most likely.

Actually for the most part I agree with this but there are certain games that I think are an exception to the rule, the GTA franchise, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy etc, and Also Motorstorm, Arctic Edge is certainly not a poor game (but then that is subjective), it's very pick up and play and suits being portable quite well tbh, and it certainly deserves more than 3k sales out of the gate.

 

[mentalfloss]

Talk about tie ratios all you want but the trend going forward is in the PS3's favor.

Just look at the Madden and Batman figures. Madden used to straight up dominate on the 360 over the PS3, and yet the PS3 is gaining share each year and I believe the 360 went down. There's not much separating the two this year, despite the 360 having twice the userbase.

It's definitely getting closer as each year passes, and worldwide a lot of studios make more money on the PS3 than the 360 for software.

Christ, you're like the energizer bunny.

 

[Woo-Fu]

as a software maker, who would you make software for? the red isn't looking so good.

I'd make software for iphone and DS. They print money while the consoles eat it.

 

[McValdemar]

Development costs are indipendent from tie ratios.

Once developed a game for a platform you're not interested in tie ratios but overall sales on that platform.

It would require to Ps3 to have twice the ratio of 360 just to match Xbox 360 software sales (due to the different userbases).

But that's not the case.
Often Xbox's ratio is higher that Ps3's one.

So... ... talk about BlueRay capacity, talk about Killzone gorgeous visuals, but the software sales are much more relevant on 360 then on PS3.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Actually for the most part I agree with this but there are certain games that I think are an exception to the rule, the GTA franchise, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy etc, and Also Motorstorm, Arctic Edge is certainly not a poor game (but then that is subjective), it's very pick up and play and suits being portable quite well tbh, and it certainly deserves more than 3k sales out of the gate.

I disagree. The three main franchises you listed are all dependent on visuals in creating the experience. The PSP can never provide the same experience as it has weaker hardware and a smaller screen. So unless the way the game plays is fundamentally different it is just a much worse version of the home console version.

 

[Gwanatu T]

Glad to see Muramasa sold 35k. I'm sure that's pretty decent numbers for such a game, right?

 

[Massa]

Motorstorm is a fantastic game on the PSP, it's on par if not better than the PS3 offerings.