• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Square Enix promises FF7 Remake Part 3 won’t "betray fans of the original"

cman

Neo Member
So "a new happiness, a new sort of feeling of satisfaction to the players" means a Hawt uncensored Tifa Under the Highwind PLOT scene this time lol, like the original plan that they toned down lol
 

Lambogenie

Member
My fucking god, what is the point of posting two random dudes as "proof" that Rebirth is a good game?
I am a huge FF7 fan too and played the game over 20 times and I think Rebirth is literally garbage.
Because Max is an influencer and therefore he must be right. /s

I'll play this regardless. Changes are inevitable. But please town down the extra curricular activities and padding. And unskippable animations.
 

GymWolf

Member
None of this really has to do with the actual gameplay which rocks. Game is fun as hell to play. Combat is great, provides incredible challenge on hard, Queen's blood is great, you have tons of options to mix and match between party members, rewards for exploration are great. It gets right everything that is wrong with FFXVI imo.

And I don't even think that's correct. You falsely assumed you were getting a remake, they made a different game, and provided tons more backstory, then they mostly explain it all in Rebirth - and you see it converging into the timeline we know. The 2nd half of Rebirth is legit one of the most enjoyable gameplay loops I've seen in a while in a SE game. It goes so much further than I ever expected - it makes the hard mode on Remake look like a training mode. And the map is legitimately great to explore and rewarding, unlike XVI. Also Chocobo Racing is surprisingly great too, it had no business being that good, as a pretty great Mario Kart player, there's actually stuff in Chocobo Racing in this game I think that is done better than Mario Kart in MK8. Granted it did come off of them releasing Chocobo GP not too long ago, so it's not surprising they'd have a handle on making it well made.
Great challenge on hard mode that you have to unlock by finishing a 50-100 hours game once at normal, and normal on square games is usually a complete cakewalk if ff16, hk3 or ff7 part 1 are anything to go by.

Vast majoritiy of people that barely complete games once didn't experienced the challenge at all, but let's praise square for treating players like childs by not giving hard mode immediately for the first run in all of their games :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
Last edited:

Minsc

Gold Member
Great challenge on hard mode that you have to unlock by finishing a 50-100 hours game once at normal, and normal on square games is usually a complete cakewalk if ff16, hk3 or ff7 part 1 are anything to go by.

Vast majoritiy of people that barely complete games once didn't experienced the challenge at all, but let's praise square for treating players like childs by not giving hard mode immediately for the first run in all of their games :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

They do have dynamic mode - which helps, it's like a little bit harder than normal (so easy/normal/dynamic, with hard locked to ng+). But actual Hard is something else entirely, if you played it in Remake you know a little of what to expect (rules of the game/combat change), but in Rebirth the fights get even harder - to the point I don't think you can clear the hardest VR missions without googling how to. There's a handful of fights even on Normal mode (not even dynamic) I think would give pause to better players - Odin, Rufus, Barret's solo fight, and a couple others.

Plus on Hard mode in this game you can jump in to any chapter you want, you don't have to "replay" the game, and you can get right in to the impossible stuff.

So I don't know if allowing hard from the start would be viable or not the way the game was designed, but I'd agree all their recent games including FFXVI don't suite veteran gamers as well as they could.

Still you talk it down like it's terrible, when in fact I'd argue this game gives someone who's itching for a super difficult challenge just that - and I don't think "most" people want that. Those that do - well they can practice and theorize their strategies on dynamic then see everything fall apart on Hard lol.
 

Toots

Gold Member
I am a huge FF7 fan too and played the game over 20 times and I think Rebirth is literally garbage.
Incredibly dense take with the erroneous use of "literally" as the retarded cherry on top.

Any "huge FF7 fan" can attest after playing rebirth it is a work of love coming from devs that poured their heart into it.
It's weird, bloated, sometimes frustrating, but it's also a work of tremendous respect for the original, and a great push in the direction of FF7 remake trilogy being a ff7 fan dream come true.
 

OGM_Madness

Member
I see a lot of people calling things garbage and then saying they didn’t play it or have no intention of ever playing it.

The trilogy is completely worth it and the stupid KH twists work simply because of the development cycle of producing the game over 10 years. I don’t think players understand the task at hand. It is a massive game when taken literally.

Some of you may say “just AI up-res the backgrounds and have higher fidelity polygons; it is more than enough”, yet FF8 & FF9 released kinda like that and no one cared.

Part 3 will have the Highwind (they already mentioned it on interviews) but how it works is still a mystery. It won’t be menus, but can you “parachute” out of it anywhere you want? Or you have to land it specifically at places?

Hopefully the team is allowed to make a full-fledge FF with original characters and original story, because then you won’t have the baggage of legacy, then the incredible art, music and world can shine on their own.
 

GymWolf

Member
They do have dynamic mode - which helps, it's like a little bit harder than normal (so easy/normal/dynamic, with hard locked to ng+). But actual Hard is something else entirely, if you played it in Remake you know a little of what to expect (rules of the game/combat change), but in Rebirth the fights get even harder - to the point I don't think you can clear the hardest VR missions without googling how to. There's a handful of fights even on Normal mode (not even dynamic) I think would give pause to better players - Odin, Rufus, Barret's solo fight, and a couple others.

Plus on Hard mode in this game you can jump in to any chapter you want, you don't have to "replay" the game, and you can get right in to the impossible stuff.

So I don't know if allowing hard from the start would be viable or not the way the game was designed, but I'd agree all their recent games including FFXVI don't suite veteran gamers as well as they could.

Still you talk it down like it's terrible, when in fact I'd argue this game gives someone who's itching for a super difficult challenge just that - and I don't think "most" people want that. Those that do - well they can practice and theorize their strategies on dynamic then see everything fall apart on Hard lol.
Every difficulty mode should be available at the start so you can let the player decide the challenge they want, locking difficulty mode behind any requisite is retarded, full stop, you can find any topic about vg mechanics we hate in the past 4 years here on gaf and you are always gonna find my post saying the same thing.

I call out any developer that does this shit, the first time you play a game is where the magic is, you should not be forced to play the most significant (and most probably only) run you do at kiddy challenge mode.

And after the success of elden ring and wukong, i'm gonna say that people IS itching for a challenge in a panorama of mostly cakewalk games, especially in the action rpg genre, so even more retarded for square to do this.
 
Last edited:

Minsc

Gold Member
That means Tifa and Cloud'll shag beneath the Highwind yeah?

They did remove a bunch of the more taboo stuff:
No Cloud+Yuffie CPR (guess they were worried about the whole underage thing - they already altered Yuffie's outfit in a patch in Remake DLC)
No Cloud bitch slapping Aerith to the ground black materia scene (can't hit girls?)
No Cid is an abusive asshole and the entire scene of him verbally abusing the shit out of his assistance to the point of suicide almost (maybe we get that in part 3?)
 

Nankatsu

Member
Part 3 is the only reason I'm keeping my PS5.
Rebith was that good.
I trust the team, I just hope they listen to players' feedback to make P3 even better.

Part 3 is the only reason I might consider buying a PS5 PRO, if the game launches on PS5.

Rebirth is a fantastic package and I'm sure part 3 will be even better.
 
They did remove a bunch of the more taboo stuff:
No Cloud+Yuffie CPR (guess they were worried about the whole underage thing - they already altered Yuffie's outfit in a patch in Remake DLC)
No Cloud bitch slapping Aerith to the ground black materia scene (can't hit girls?)
No Cid is an abusive asshole and the entire scene of him verbally abusing the shit out of his assistance to the point of suicide almost (maybe we get that in part 3?)

I'm hoping they keep the Slap Fight.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
Part I was a cavalcade of wasted potential; Part II was a bloated amusement park filled with sideshows, minigames, and collectible souvenirs. I couldn't be less interested in Part III.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Part I was a cavalcade of wasted potential; Part II was a bloated amusement park filled with sideshows, minigames, and collectible souvenirs. I couldn't be less interested in Part III.

So what exactly do you play games for then? I notice you didn't comment on the combat/exploration itself - because that it practically perfect.

So many aspects of 1 and 2 are straight up upgrades from the OG - Wall Market for example both looks and plays out way better in the Remake, from the design of the town itself to the execution of the dresses and humor.

I'd be willing to bet you would have hated it no matter what happened. What was the last FF game you really enjoyed? What about non-FF SE - OT2 or DQ11 enjoyable? I think so many of the people hate the game simply because it's not the OG game - regardless of if objectively it is a good or bad game - like Queen's Blood is objectively a fun and great card game - arguably better than Triple Tirad. But since it wasn't in the original - that's all it takes for someone to hate it IMO - or they just hate card games, I dunno.

It's not like the original wasn't full of minigames either. I totally ignored the souvenirs.

What I love most is the combat and RPG systems and customization. Stuff like the Sphere Grid in FFX is my bread and butter, and we have that to a lesser degree here, along with leveling materia and getting summons and so much of the classic FF gameplay I love.
 
Turning Final Fantasy into an action game has already been Square Enix's BIGGEST BETRAYAL of Final Fantasy fans to date... so anything else doesn't really matter anymore.
True, look at Mario RPG remake, i think it sold better than Rebirth and is a turn based rpg, just give the true fans what they wants, is not that hard.
 

Knightime_X

Member
Please don't make me wade through 200 hours of side quests in fear I might miss something important if I don't like I did in rebirth.
I don't ever want to do that again.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Please don't make me wade through 200 hours of side quests in fear I might miss something important if I don't like I did in rebirth.
I don't ever want to do that again.

Sometimes less is more. I liked the grasslands, but then you open up Junon and you get the same row of side missions. 4x crystals, 3x summon crystals, moogle house... its exactly the same deal every fucking time. The first protorelic quest is rather fun, then the rest is about clearing the same minigames over and over.

And this is without taking all the forced minigames into consideration. Before I even got to Gold Saucer I had my fill of those.
 

Knightime_X

Member
Sometimes less is more. I liked the grasslands, but then you open up Junon and you get the same row of side missions. 4x crystals, 3x summon crystals, moogle house... its exactly the same deal every fucking time. The first protorelic quest is rather fun, then the rest is about clearing the same minigames over and over.

And this is without taking all the forced minigames into consideration. Before I even got to Gold Saucer I had my fill of those.
I stopped playing for a month after Gongaga.
2 hours into Cosmo canyon made me say fuck this, and I had to take a break.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Man, the regions all felt a lot different to me. Grasslands was the most basic/flat, kinda like FFXVI, then you had more verticality with climbing mountains in Junon had the whole parade sequence which was great.

Then there's gongaga with its jungle and awesome music and jumping puzzles, then the desert with the flying/floating puzzles, then the final section with all the hidden places to find flying over water - that or gongaga were my favorites. Loved the music for gongaga, and really enjoyed the freedom the final purple chocobo brings by letting you "fly" anywhere on the map.

It was mostly doing the same things, but they get a lot more difficult to find/accomplish at the end which I found more enjoyable. Some of the ways you need to progress through the various jumps or paths got to be a bit elaborate for sure, which was nice, you can't just follow the marker.

Plus you can mix in the main quests and side quests, and Queen's Blood, I just loved it all. I guess if you just hate everything, there's only the combat, which if you wanted turn based combat like FFX or DQ11, too bad there too.

I dunno, the original still exists, so you always have that to fall back to as well.

Also I loved how they put in the piano sections - and if you go through them and get As you get rewarded with the special battle medley arrangement, and then if you can manage an A on that as well you get more rewards, things like that really made a nice payoff for completing the regions.
 
Last edited:

Mayar

Member
The problem is that they themselves no longer understand how to make FF, simply because everyone who worked on the old games left and changed studios, and those who are working on them now have no idea what they want.

This is what I don't understand at all, after they released the first part, and then said that it sold poorly and did not live up to expectations. They release the second part, which sold even worse than the first (by 50%), and after these news their shares fell by 15% and the overall depreciation of their shares was 70%. And now they sit and think - let's make a third part, it certainly won't be worse.

In this case, to understand part 3, players will need to go through the first part, which showed mediocre sales. Then go through the second part, the sales of which were significantly lower than the first part, that is, the base of players who went through 1 + 2 has decreased significantly, and now let's consolidate all this with part 3. In fact, they are repeating the fate of FF 13, when the first part Beautiful but Stupid came out. Then 13-2 came out, which was received very coolly and finally buried the player base, and then Lightning Returns came out, which no one cared about anymore, and they also managed to kill the graphics in it so much that it looked worse than the previous two.

I just can't imagine what they need to do in part 3 to recoup the costs financially or make it profitable.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
The problem is that they themselves no longer understand how to make FF, simply because everyone who worked on the old games left and changed studios, and those who are working on them now have no idea what they want.

This is what I don't understand at all, after they released the first part, and then said that it sold poorly and did not live up to expectations. They release the second part, which sold even worse than the first (by 50%), and after these news their shares fell by 15% and the overall depreciation of their shares was 70%. And now they sit and think - let's make a third part, it certainly won't be worse.

In this case, to understand part 3, players will need to go through the first part, which showed mediocre sales. Then go through the second part, the sales of which were significantly lower than the first part, that is, the base of players who went through 1 + 2 has decreased significantly, and now let's consolidate all this with part 3. In fact, they are repeating the fate of FF 13, when the first part Beautiful but Stupid came out. Then 13-2 came out, which was received very coolly and finally buried the player base, and then Lightning Returns came out, which no one cared about anymore, and they also managed to kill the graphics in it so much that it looked worse than the previous two.

I just can't imagine what they need to do in part 3 to recoup the costs financially or make it profitable.

Didn't Part 1 release to the PS4 and Part 2 release to the PS5 with less than half - 50% the userbase? Surely that accounts for some of the drop - as well as part 1 hitting right during COVID when games were higher anyway. But I do agree there was less interest in Part 2, however I think that the full collection of all 3 parts probably will do pretty well, combined with Parts 1, 2 and 3's sales.

All in all I think the Remakes will in total get close or possibly outsell the original (when you add up all the sales of that).

Also don't think the sales were a disappointment - otherwise they wouldn't have promoted Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's director and others.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I think they have already put their eggs in one basket and have to complete the 3rd and final chapter of FFVII-2. It's too late to scrap it. Right now in terms of FF games, XIV is carrying it hard.

And I think part of the problem is their shortsightedness in making it Sony exclusive and releasing the game on PC a year later when everyone has seen the story online and doesn't have much incentive to throw down $70 for one part of a larger whole.
 
Last edited:

Mayar

Member
Also don't think the sales were a disappointment - otherwise they wouldn't have promoted Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's director and others.
In the last few years, the logic of the Squars defies logic, and the management always gets money and promotions, and fires ordinary employees first =)
I think that the full collection of all 3 parts probably will do pretty well, combined with Parts 1, 2 and 3's sales.
I don't think it will happen and it will help. Those who wanted to have already bought and completed it, for new players it is too big to complete. Plus if I remember correctly the first part is 1 double-layered blu-ray, the second is 2 blu-rays, well and I think the third will also be 2 if not 3. The cost of such an edition will not appeal to many.
Didn't Part 1 release to the PS4
It came out on PS4 and then on PS5.
 

Brock2621

Member
Rebirth was so far and above my expectations. I only watched the first trailer like 2 years ago seeing Cloud and Seph walking. I went radio silence after that and I was just expecting Remake 1.5 with a tad larger areas but same basics in every other way. The absolute absurdity I experienced in how much content this game kept adding blew my mind. I remember hitting 60 hours and thinking "how is this possible? Shouldn't the game be done now?"

So then I kept playing for double that and put over 120hrs and I just couldn't believe it. I trust them entirely...
 

Mayar

Member
Rebirth was so far and above my expectations. I only watched the first trailer like 2 years ago seeing Cloud and Seph walking. I went radio silence after that and I was just expecting Remake 1.5 with a tad larger areas but same basics in every other way. The absolute absurdity I experienced in how much content this game kept adding blew my mind. I remember hitting 60 hours and thinking "how is this possible? Shouldn't the game be done now?"

So then I kept playing for double that and put over 120hrs and I just couldn't believe it. I trust them entirely...

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why we will never get a classic FF again, no matter how much the old fans would like it. I think we can basically forget about Square Enix as a producer of RPG games, they have left this path.

Thank God Atlus still exists - Metaphor: ReFantazio, please be a good game, everyone is counting on you this year.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why we will never get a classic FF again
ok
Bravely_Default_II.png
 

Minsc

Gold Member

To a lesser extent, but still fairly similar - Octopath Traveler 2 has the same structure as classic FFs. But Bravely Default series might as well be called Final Fantasy - it's as much a clone as you can make short of having chocobos, moogles and bahamut in it.

Dragon Quest XI S feels just like a classic FF game too IMO. It's even turn based, party based, and easily a 10/10 game.

The classic style games still happen, but for obvious reasons at the AA level. AAAs need to appease too many people to expect a game like FFVI to get a $200 million budget and have "archaic" gameplay.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Classic Final Fantasy for all the people like to talk about how they want it...not enough buy it. And Square is looking to appeal to the widest group possible and current generation is all about immediate action and gratification. Action games. Especially with the success that Fromsoft has had with their Action RPGs and Square started down this path with Type 0 with mixed success.

And right now given their game output they are after a newer fresher audience.

I dunno how FF7R3 will do but if sequels give any outlook odds are it will sell less then Rebirth will.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Classic Final Fantasy for all the people like to talk about how they want it...not enough buy it. And Square is looking to appeal to the widest group possible and current generation is all about immediate action and gratification. Action games. Especially with the success that Fromsoft has had with their Action RPGs and Square started down this path with Type 0 with mixed success.

And right now given their game output they are after a newer fresher audience.

I dunno how FF7R3 will do but if sequels give any outlook odds are it will sell less then Rebirth will.

I dunno, on one hand I could see the argument that it could do less, what were the numbers like 7M+ for Remake and 2M+ for Rebirth? Another drop at that scale doesn't seem possible. I don't think we could see Part 3 at under 1M or even under 500k, that simply isn't possible.

You also have to consider Remake launched in to a userbase of 100M+ and Rebirth launched in to a userbase of 50M+ like I said before, and Remake also had COVID so people were more at home and it was also unknown/new. It definitely had more going for it.

Rebirth is probably gonna scoop up a bunch of GOTYs and sell decently enough as it launches on PC and over the years before Part 3.

Part 3 will also allow people to experience the story in full, so the few people holding out won't have that excuse anymore, but I'm sure there will be other excuses to use then.

It also really depends on how it's marketed. Do they nail the airship and open world and are Vincent and Cid really awesome? I'm sure we'll get new gameplay elements too.

But Part 3 will have a larger userbase than Part 2 had - Part 3 will launch into that 100M+ userbase that Part 2 didn't have - so who knows. It might not be as big a drop as before, and it's not impossible that it may even do better if they advertise the heck out of it.
 

Mayar

Member
To a lesser extent, but still fairly similar - Octopath Traveler 2 has the same structure as classic FFs. But Bravely Default series might as well be called Final Fantasy - it's as much a clone as you can make short of having chocobos, moogles and bahamut in it.
Octopath Traveler 2, Bravely Default 2 - Both games are great happiness pills for those who want to remember how it was before, but unfortunately both series showed very poor sales. Therefore, there is no certainty that they will be continued in the future. This is basically true for all the games they have released in the last 2-3 years, including Tactics Ogre: Reborn and Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII Reunion, sales have been extremely sluggish and none of these games have made money. For the last few years they just haven't been able to release a game that would make them money.
I dunno, on one hand I could see the argument that it could do less, what were the numbers like 7M+ for Remake and 2M+ for Rebirth? Another drop at that scale doesn't seem possible. I don't think we could see Part 3 at under 1M or even under 500k, that simply isn't possible.
At the moment, they have a product that has had 2 parts, and both parts were rejected by the market and did not bring profit. We can guess as much as we want, but the 3rd will definitely come out, because most likely it was already planned and they can no longer refuse it, but whether it will bring them profit is another question, most likely not. Market simply doesn't need a FF that plays like an open world from Ubisoft with RPG elements that don't mean anything in the game, this is 100% not what the fans of the series want.
Classic Final Fantasy for all the people like to talk about how they want it...not enough buy it. And Square is looking to appeal to the widest group possible and current generation is all about immediate action and gratification. Action games. Especially with the success that Fromsoft has had with their Action RPGs and Square started down this path with Type 0 with mixed success.
Tell that to Atlus, who knows how to make JRPGs and sell them.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I dunno, on one hand I could see the argument that it could do less, what were the numbers like 7M+ for Remake and 2M+ for Rebirth? Another drop at that scale doesn't seem possible. I don't think we could see Part 3 at under 1M or even under 500k, that simply isn't possible.

You also have to consider Remake launched in to a userbase of 100M+ and Rebirth launched in to a userbase of 50M+ like I said before, and Remake also had COVID so people were more at home and it was also unknown/new. It definitely had more going for it.

Rebirth is probably gonna scoop up a bunch of GOTYs and sell decently enough as it launches on PC and over the years before Part 3.

Part 3 will also allow people to experience the story in full, so the few people holding out won't have that excuse anymore, but I'm sure there will be other excuses to use then.

It also really depends on how it's marketed. Do they nail the airship and open world and are Vincent and Cid really awesome? I'm sure we'll get new gameplay elements too.

But Part 3 will have a larger userbase than Part 2 had - Part 3 will launch into that 100M+ userbase that Part 2 didn't have - so who knows. It might not be as big a drop as before, and it's not impossible that it may even do better if they advertise the heck out of it.
It depends. I think the best decision they should make is make it a global same time release for both PS5 and PC. The Exclusivity deals tend to hurt it more then they can help it in the long term. But you are correct in that it'll be the full story and that will be a factor in many buying both Rebirth and Part 3 to get the full story instead of pieces.
 

Mayar

Member
It depends. I think the best decision they should make is make it a global same time release for both PS5 and PC. The Exclusivity deals tend to hurt it more then they can help it in the long term. But you are correct in that it'll be the full story and that will be a factor in many buying both Rebirth and Part 3 to get the full story instead of pieces.
I don't think the problem is in platforms of exclusivity, etc. All Square Enix games sooner or later came out on different platforms and it didn't help overall sales. If you take PC as a platform, the quantity is a drop in the ocean, considering that game budgets now easily reach 100,000,000 and above.

To succeed, they need to reconsider their game development strategy and change something, because what they are doing now leads nowhere. And it would be understandable if, for example, only FF7 remakes had bad financial reporting, but no, all their budget projects and AA titles, including remakes of games from old consoles, they also failed financially.

And to hell with FF7, it's already out and the project is practically finished. There's nothing to be done or fixed here. But they also want to make a remake of FF9 - and that's scary.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Personally they shouldn't touch FF9. If they do then the Bravely team should since FF9 and the Bravely artstyle go hand in hand.
 

Mayar

Member
If they do the same with FF9 as with FF7, fans will burn them alive, to be honest I don't want them to touch old games at all. They just need to find an approach to the JRPG genre and finally start releasing games in this genre, while somehow adjusting budgets and expenses to make it profitable. Roughly speaking, what Atlus is doing now.
We already have too many remakes on the market, all companies are only doing remakes, I think it's time for new IPs and people who are not afraid to make new IPs, the same announcement of Metaphor: ReFantazio from Atlus was a complete surprise.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
At the moment, they have a product that has had 2 parts, and both parts were rejected by the market and did not bring profit. We can guess as much as we want, but the 3rd will definitely come out, because most likely it was already planned and they can no longer refuse it, but whether it will bring them profit is another question, most likely not. Market simply doesn't need a FF that plays like an open world from Ubisoft with RPG elements that don't mean anything in the game, this is 100% not what the fans of the series want.

I can't say I agree with this one bit - the RPG elements absolutely feel important in Rebirth, where they felt invisible in FFXVI to me - well outside of the low sales, which I personally don't think are terrible - especially when put in the light that the FFVII OG remasters don't sell any better (or sell worse) than these remakes... but... it begs the bigger question still:

What do the fans want? Clearly it's not FFXVI - that sold even worse than Remake by like 50% - ~3.5M vs 7M.

I'm assuming "fans" means 10-20M+ sales so something throwing up 3-4M sales like FFXVI is also not what fans of FF want.

Perhaps we just need to consider the fanbase is no longer in the 10-20M range? Maybe a few million is all there is left for it?
 

Mayar

Member
Persona 5 Series Surpasses 9 Million Copies Sold Worldwide, Represents Over 50% of Total Persona Sales. At the end of November 2022, it was reported that the Persona 5 series had achieved 8.3 million units sold—both physical and digital—worldwide.

They want the good old JRPG that they once loved FF for.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
So what exactly do you play games for then? I notice you didn't comment on the combat/exploration itself - because that it practically perfect.

So many aspects of 1 and 2 are straight up upgrades from the OG - Wall Market for example both looks and plays out way better in the Remake, from the design of the town itself to the execution of the dresses and humor.

I'd be willing to bet you would have hated it no matter what happened. What was the last FF game you really enjoyed? What about non-FF SE - OT2 or DQ11 enjoyable? I think so many of the people hate the game simply because it's not the OG game - regardless of if objectively it is a good or bad game - like Queen's Blood is objectively a fun and great card game - arguably better than Triple Tirad. But since it wasn't in the original - that's all it takes for someone to hate it IMO - or they just hate card games, I dunno.

It's not like the original wasn't full of minigames either. I totally ignored the souvenirs.

What I love most is the combat and RPG systems and customization. Stuff like the Sphere Grid in FFX is my bread and butter, and we have that to a lesser degree here, along with leveling materia and getting summons and so much of the classic FF gameplay I love.
You're making a whole lot of presumptions about what I think. I enjoyed the OG for what it was back in the day, though I'm not sure how well it holds up. The remakes add little of value or significance and fail to expand on the original themes, world or mechanics in any meaningful way. If anything, they tread far too close to the source material without really attempting to define themselves as anything more than prettier, bigger, more convoluted versions of the original.

The whole world of Rebirth feels entirely artificial, every successive zone just a themed version of the first zone you encounter with the same mix of Guardian Sanctuaries, Mog Houses, Remnawave Towers, Chocobo Stops, Lifespring Survey Crystals, stealth sections, Treasure Hunts... the list goes on. And there's so little variety, it's the same assets reused across an entire world - as though a bus stop in Chicago looks just like one in Austin, that looks just like one in Berlin or Madrid. Like an amusement park, there's a little themed version of every minigame in every part of the park, with the principle objective being to remind you of something else you love (as Disney World does with its rides and mascots) - not expand or explore them further, but simply to merchandise brand iconography and repurpose it for a new product.

The result is a game that is far larger, but feels oddly smaller in scale. The giant world map now feels like an archipelago of closely connected islands that share the same local infrastructure; the vast rolling plains like a country park crossed with a scrap heap. The reduced sense of scale, in turn, robs the story of it's globe-trotting gravitas.

I never enjoyed the combat, but I know that people are split on that. The exploration though? There's so little to discover in the world apart from the grand set pieces (that serve as the rollercoasters of the amusement park) and the reiterations and restatements of what came before. An area that lasted three-or-four screens in the OG now goes on for hours without justifying all the extra runtime. Dialogue and story is similarly padded out, but little of consequence happens until the final act. You'll hit all the same locations in the same order and come out with much the same results.

What's more, all of this exists as an aside to the story - all these minigames and sidequests are just busywork that you can take or leave at your leisure. Imagine the development time had instead been sunk into building a whole new narrative side to the world, where factions like Avalanche, Wutai and the Junon Republic can be discovered and by siding with one or another you could affect the outcome of the story. Each could have had unique weapons, materia and vehicles to unlock that allow for different experiences on repeat playthroughs. Each could have had internal subplots that add actual history and backstory to these elements that never really got due consideration in the OG. Imagine an open world with massive barren expanses that emphasise the environmental destruction wrought by Shinra. Imagine the sense of scale and adventure you could communicate with that, the more pensive and mature atmosphere that makes your rag tag band of eco-warriors feel like they have an almost insurmountable task ahead of them. And these are just a few ideas from a no-nothing forum poster, what they could have actually achieved would be way more compelling.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Persona 5 Series Surpasses 9 Million Copies Sold Worldwide, Represents Over 50% of Total Persona Sales. At the end of November 2022, it was reported that the Persona 5 series had achieved 8.3 million units sold—both physical and digital—worldwide.

They want the good old JRPG that they once loved FF for.

I believe like main Mario games (platformers) and Mario Kart (kart racing) and other series that keep the same relative experience from game to game like Persona - Final Fantasy games - especially from X onwards - with X being a series of tunnels you navigate between almost like an adventure game - then XI being an MMORP, then XII being a single player MMO, then XIII being action, XIV another MMORPG, XV more action, and XVI more action, and VII Rebirth - once again action.

Traditional FFs haven't been a thing since IX I guess. Excluding spin-offs like World of Final Fantasy which plays a lot like the older FFs though mixed with some monster collecting/pokemon.

You're making a whole lot of presumptions about what I think. I enjoyed the OG for what it was back in the day, though I'm not sure how well it holds up. The remakes add little of value or significance and fail to expand on the original themes, world or mechanics in any meaningful way. If anything, they tread far too close to the source material without really attempting to define themselves as anything more than prettier, bigger, more convoluted versions of the original.

The whole world of Rebirth feels entirely artificial, every successive zone just a themed version of the first zone you encounter with the same mix of Guardian Sanctuaries, Mog Houses, Remnawave Towers, Chocobo Stops, Lifespring Survey Crystals, stealth sections, Treasure Hunts... the list goes on. And there's so little variety, it's the same assets reused across an entire world - as though a bus stop in Chicago looks just like one in Austin, that looks just like one in Berlin or Madrid. Like an amusement park, there's a little themed version of every minigame in every part of the park, with the principle objective being to remind you of something else you love (as Disney World does with its rides and mascots) - not expand or explore them further, but simply to merchandise brand iconography and repurpose it for a new product.

The result is a game that is far larger, but feels oddly smaller in scale. The giant world map now feels like an archipelago of closely connected islands that share the same local infrastructure; the vast rolling plains like a country park crossed with a scrap heap. The reduced sense of scale, in turn, robs the story of it's globe-trotting gravitas.

I never enjoyed the combat, but I know that people are split on that. The exploration though? There's so little to discover in the world apart from the grand set pieces (that serve as the rollercoasters of the amusement park) and the reiterations and restatements of what came before. An area that lasted three-or-four screens in the OG now goes on for hours without justifying all the extra runtime. Dialogue and story is similarly padded out, but little of consequence happens until the final act. You'll hit all the same locations in the same order and come out with much the same results.

What's more, all of this exists as an aside to the story - all these minigames and sidequests are just busywork that you can take or leave at your leisure. Imagine the development time had instead been sunk into building a whole new narrative side to the world, where factions like Avalanche, Wutai and the Junon Republic can be discovered and by siding with one or another you could affect the outcome of the story. Each could have had unique weapons, materia and vehicles to unlock that allow for different experiences on repeat playthroughs. Each could have had internal subplots that add actual history and backstory to these elements that never really got due consideration in the OG. Imagine an open world with massive barren expanses that emphasise the environmental destruction wrought by Shinra. Imagine the sense of scale and adventure you could communicate with that, the more pensive and mature atmosphere that makes your rag tag band of eco-warriors feel like they have an almost insurmountable task ahead of them. And these are just a few ideas from a no-nothing forum poster, what they could have actually achieved would be way more compelling.

This is a good post and you have definitely thought out your complaints. I don't entirely agree - while the overworld structure is repetitive, I definitely feel like the plains/junon mountains/desert/jungle/water/and various towns like Junon and Costa Del Sol, and the Cruise Ship even, along with the ancient temple at the end all bring a lot of diversity and don't feel like copy/paste assets. I'm pretty sure you can post three or four screens from each area and they'd all look quite different. That's not to say it couldn't be possible to find some areas that share similar cliffsides etc. But overall the desert area and jungle area look very little alike.

I found plenty of off-beat corners not on the map with treasures and little hidden set pieces - I even found ways to get to parts of the game before the game wanted you to get there which was fun too.

As far as the quests and developing the factions more - I agree that's one of the highlights - you get that a bit when you get outside Midgar - how much other territories hate Shinra, and you do team up with the Shinra squad leader for a bit to hunt down a monster which was a nice touch - the whole section of the parade was really well done and enjoyable. In Remake there was the backstory with Wedge going to Jessie's parents and getting the blasting agent, that all was done really well too, way better than the original IMO, you get to see her father being bedridden from working for shinra and her mom making the Pizza that you don't get to eat for everyone else, and just the whole section was great, skydiving down from the upper level to the slums at the end.

I dunno, you have valid arguments, but I definitely think the Remake and Rebirth could be better, at times they nail the atmosphere and world building well, and the moment to moment banter and writing between the characters is very well done, just a lot of the bigger plot points don't hit as well as they could.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
What I'm looking forward to most in Part 3 I think is the inevitable epic quest to obtain Knights of the Round. I hope it's totally over the top and a 6+ hour explanation of the summon with backstory and everything. And the summon better be as long or longer to use it's finishing move as the original.

Chadley and Mai are super annoying - I get they're basically like narrators, but maybe if they weren't voiced it would be better. They do a few fun things with Chadley from time to time, but overall, a menu would be preferable to him.

I think the main difference between QB and Gwent is scale - Gwent games will take so much longer than QB, QB games can be finished in under 1 minute, while Gwent can go to 15+ minutes. Gwent is definitely more complex too. But QB still has a lot of fun strategic choices to make and you can create a lot of different types of decks, and they do push quite a few different strategies on you, so it's doubtful you can win every match with the same deck, especially at the end vs the Queen.

I have to say that's one of the things I like the most about Rebirth - you get a lot of repeating quests that slowly build up difficulty over the different chapters of the game - and completing them all results in a fun payoff at the end where there's a nice recognition of it through a fun video or scene - the piano quest line is a good example of this.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom