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[Cindi Mayweather]

I really want to. I really like Valkyrie Profile too. It's just that it's a bit difficult to do because a lot of the players like Valkyrie Profile 1 the most. The difference between players for the first game and its sequels is so different that it's difficult to think about what makes the series good.

What.

Both VP's are great.

VP1 has better story and world building. Among the best 2d rpgs ever made and for me, is a recognizable swan song.

VP2 has better combat and dungeons. It is the toppest of the top 3d rpg in terms of design by my estimation.

All you need to do is mix them together.

I just can't trust people who dislike VP2 because you don't play as Lenneth.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

^ Damn, you don't get to play as Lenneth in 2? It's whateva, not like I actually cared about the story in the game. It was that battle system son.

It's Hrist, man.

I don't remember shit when it comes to that game's story.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Not sure if tri-ace and their storytelling/writing would be up to the task, but I could see the dark and sad tragedies in VP1 as a potential route to take if they went in the Souls direction. The stories in VP1 were so raw (albeit melodramatic, but nevertheless something so raw you rarely, if ever see, in video games).

Continuing that tragic tradition would do wonders for VP3 I think.

Fuck yes. You get it.

^ Damn, you don't get to play as Lenneth in 2? It's whateva, not like I actually cared about the story in the game. It was that battle system son.

VP2 is like the best 3d rpg ever.

It makes VP1 battle system and dungeons look like baby food.

 

[Ultratech]

Dungeons, characters, worldbuilding and story like VP1.

Battle System of VP2.

There, I made the perfect game.

*throws money at you*

I really did love VP1's little character vignettes and was really disappointed when they dumped it in VP2 and regulated the Einherjar's backstories to a Menu. (Plus, they were pretty much generic units so to speak.)

And VP2's battle system was pretty awesome.

 

[GhostTrick]

Yes the japanese market is shrinking. That's why these devs should start thinking global and release their games in West too.

Stop thinking Japan first then the rest and do like all indies and AA game publishers, embrace middleware such as Unreal Engine 4, embrace multiplatform developpement and think of the whole world instead of domestic only.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Why would you prefer VP1 dungeons?

VP2 has SEAL STONES.

Goddamn, just thinking of that game.

Greatest of all time.

Over 10 years after its release and I still haven't played a 3d rpg - western or Japanese - that plays nearly as good or is nearly as deep in terms of dungeons and combat. Even Resonance of Fate isn't on the same wavelength.

Best ps2 JRPG. FIGHT ME.

 

[The n00b Avenger]

I actually liked the gameplay in 1 better but 2 wasn't bad. I wouldn't mind another game in either style. Not to mention 1's style probably just doesn't work unless it's 2D

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Yes the japanese market is shrinking. That's why these devs should start thinking global and release their games in West too.

Stop thinking Japan first then the rest and do like all indies and AA game publishers, embrace middleware such as Unreal Engine 4, embrace multiplatform developpement and think of the whole world instead of domestic only.

Most current gen Japanese games are using this, you realize?

 

[John Harker]

SO5 as a series reboot makes it feeling like SO1 make more sense to me.

Does it really come across as a throwback? Haven't been following it so genuinely curious.

I loved the earlier games but I couldn't finish 3 and 4 really turned me off because of the style and direction the game went, didn't it get it.

I took an early look at so5 and wrote it off as not being for me, it felt a continuation of 4. But maybe it's worth looking at again if it really can capture a proper nostalgic feeling well still being more modern in design and style?

 

[RedZaraki]

I much preferred VP1 battle system myself. The 3-d field stuff was weird in VP2. I also though the Skill system (with books and stuff) in VP1 was better.

Hope they do make VP3 eventually. As long as the company survives I think it will happen.

Also, I still wonder why JRPGs ever fell out of favor? The big releases that were actually good always seemed to sell well from what I remember. And the less stellar titles sold more poorly.

I wouldn't look at FF13 and SO4 as "amazing" games and then scratch my head why they weren't warmly recieved and then jump to the conclusion "Well I guess people don't like JRPGs anymore."

People DO like JRPGs. SO3, FFX and FFXII, Suikoden V, and yeah VP2 ALL of those were really good titles that didn't get great follow ups.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I also thought SO5 was a continuation of the animu hijinks of SO4.

I threw that series under the bus with 3.

Very controversial opinion but the only good Star Ocean is 2.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Also, I still wonder why JRPGs ever fell out of favor? The big releases that were actually good always seemed to sell well from what I remember. And the less stellar titles sold more poorly.

It's a myth.

In the west for instance, the average jrpg tops out at like 200-250k units. When your sales are static but your budgets increase ten fold, you're gonna get lower budget games (why jrpgs partly moved to ds last gen) and fewer jrpgs period.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

If I had one wish that could be granted, it would be that back in 2001 Microsoft simply bought the dying Sega and still let Sega release consoles under the Sega brand and that Sony would not change to the cell for Playstation 3. I know there were other factors in Japanese culture that worsened game sales, but the success of the 360 in the west and the PS3's terrible architecture really fragmented jrpg development and sales even more during that entire era.

I understand where his fears are coming from and I hope this game finds some wind under its sails in the west.

 

[GhostTrick]

Most current gen Japanese games are using this, you realize?

Yes and no. The shift is more about big publishers for now.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Yes and no. The shift is more about big publishers for now.

Shenmue III is using Unreal 4.

 

[specdot]

I don't remember shit when it comes to that game's story.

Depending on the ending route you took, you may have not even encountered her as much. The first game, while incredible, was very particular on how you got the "A" ending. A guide was definitely necessary.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

If I had one wish that could be granted, it would be that back in 2001 Microsoft simply bought the dying Sega and still let Sega release consoles under the Sega brand and that Sony would not change to the cell for Playstation 3. I know there were other factors in Japanese culture that worsened game sales, but the success of the 360 in the west and the PS3's terrible architecture really fragmented jrpg development and sales even more during that entire era.

I understand where his fears are coming from and I hope this game finds some wind under its sails in the west.

It'd probably still happen because Japanese people just had a complete culture shift. DS and PSP were two of the best systems ever so I'm not seeing why it's an issue.

 

[GhostTrick]

Shenmue III is using Unreal 4.

Shenmue III is a bit of a weird case as its produced by a French/Monaco company though
A lot of AA publishers in Japan are still relying on older engines and such. Only the big ones have embraced UE4 and some only for their big productions. Take SE for exemple: UE4 for KH, FF and DQ, but Unity or sometimes custom engines for the rest.
Bamco ? UE4 for Tekken and Ace Combat, but older ones for the rest.

I know UE4 is seeing a big shift in Japan but it has yet to reach AA publishers and developpers such as Tri-Ace, Spike Chunsoft, NIS or even Atlus.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Shenmue III is a bit of a weird case as its produced by a French/Monaco company though
A lot of AA publishers in Japan are still relying on older engines and such. Only the big ones have embraced UE4 and some only for their big productions. Take SE for exemple: UE4 for KH, FF and DQ, but Unity or sometimes custom engines for the rest.
Bamco ? UE4 for Tekken and Ace Combat, but older ones for the rest.

I know UE4 is seeing a big shift in Japan but it has yet to reach AA publishers and developpers such as Tri-Ace, Spike Chunsoft, NIS or even Atlus.

Isn't the new Tri-Ace VP-esque game using Unreal 4?

 

[Taruranto]

I don't even remember it being mentioned in the game. Maybe it's in her in-game bio. It's such a non-issue in the game, it's amazing. No cutscenes to focus on her assets, no prolonged character background scenes where they try to explain every bit about her character. I really appreciate SO5 and it kinda breaks my heart to realize that a lot of people just won't. Ah well.

To be honest the fanservice doesn't really bother me, I just think she looks stupid as hell.

I haven't been following the game much, but reading around apparently it's much more like SO1 and the story isn't an huge focus.

It's kinda hard for me to get excited for a Star Ocean game, I liked 1 because the story was simple, non-linear and straight to the point, but I found 2 and 3 excruciatingly bad. Especially 2 first planet, just thinking about it... brrrr!

 

[koutoru]

I know UE4 is seeing a big shift in Japan but it has yet to reach AA publishers and developpers such as Tri-Ace, Spike Chunsoft, NIS or even Atlus.

NIS, Falcom, Gust and Compile Heart seem to have their workflow centered around Sony's PhyreEngine.

While not as robust or as open source as UE4, it still is a good third party engine vs creating their own.

 

[GhostTrick]

Isn't the new Tri-Ace VP-esque game using Unreal 4?

Is it ?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Is it ?

I remember when it was revealed people were saying this. Could be wrong.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

It'd probably still happen because Japanese people just had a complete culture shift. DS and PSP were two of the best systems ever so I'm not seeing why it's an issue.

The real issue to me was how it fragmented, sales-wise and development-wise, during such a long period of time. Focus shifted from consoles to portable somewhat because of the two big things I listed above. No one in Japan really bought 360s so devs were torn between releasing a 360 title and hoping that they get sales in America, or taking 2x longer to develop and release a PS3 title, or simply making a portable game, which I'm sure some of them would have preferred making HD titles instead.

I have nothing against DS and PSP titles as some of them have provided some great experiences, but I have asked myself multiple times how some of these great games would have ended up in HD.

I don't know how big of a resurgence we will have with HD JRPGS this gen but I'm just thankful we're getting the titles we are getting, and that some companies are doubling down on them one last time.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Is it ?

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure Exist Archive uses Tri-Ace's own engine just like SO5.

 

[CrispyBoar]

I'm glad that's what you took from all this. Now all we need is another 5 or 6 of you to get the west is ruining japanese games to get this ball rolling.

He's right, though. The west has absolutely no right to tell Japanese 3rd party publishers on what to do with their games. We should thank our lucky stars that games like this are being localized to us to begin with.

 

[Nirolak]

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure Exist Archive uses Tri-Ace's own engine just like SO5.

At minimum it's not using UE4 given it's on Vita.

 

[Teknoman]

I wonder if there's still hope for JRPG's on consoles.

If they would just keep making great games as they know how to then yes. I think thats why From is so successful now. They arent trying to cater to a certain geography demographic.

 

[Soriku]

Why would you prefer VP1 dungeons?

VP2 has SEAL STONES.

Goddamn, just thinking of that game.

Greatest of all time.

Over 10 years after its release and I still haven't played a 3d rpg - western or Japanese - that plays nearly as good or is nearly as deep in terms of dungeons and combat. Even Resonance of Fate isn't on the same wavelength.

Best ps2 JRPG. FIGHT ME.

RoF didn't really have dungeons...more like themed battlefields which made the game feel like a shooter considering the importance of positioning and cover.

 

[synce]

Wait, SO5 is a reboot? News to me. They really shouldn't have put a 5 in the title. Disappointing to hear the comment about VP though :/

 

[Rob2K19]

After this game is released in the states, I want to collect feedback and incorporate it into the next title, if I can release one.

I'm glad that's what you took from all this. Now all we need is another 5 or 6 of you to get the west is ruining japanese games to get this ball rolling.

Seems you're not up to date. So it's time to get you up to date so you can get the joke, which based on the exact words he said last time, lead to those results becoming truth.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1201826

No, they are just pandering less to pathetically obsessed pervs than Japanese game devs have come to in recent years.

And dear god, diapers, really? They just gave one character panties that are a bit more like boxer briefs than g-strings. You really think that women should go around saving the world in thongs? Ridiculously stupid.

I have no words for you(aside from this) since I expect this from you. You're just too pathetically racist.

 

[Shin-chan]

Square Enix needs to sort themselves out and get the PS one or PSP version of Valkyrie Profile on the PSN store, and a PS4 version of the second game too.

I've never played the series but I'd love to give it a go on my Vita.

Hopefully SOV does well enough for them that they can continue making console titles. Despite the flaws I'm hearing about it sounds like a solid title that can be developed on for future games.

 

[Lime]

Square Enix needs to sort themselves out and get the PS one or PSP version of Valkyrie Profile on the PSN store, and a PS4 version of the second game too.

I've never played the series but I'd love to give it a go on my Vita.

Hopefully SOV does well enough for them that they can continue making console titles. Despite the flaws I'm hearing about it sounds like a solid title that can be developed on for future games.

I still don't know why none of the SE published tri-ace games are on PSN. It's completely ridiculous. SO1, SO2, VP1, and so forth.

The only tri-ace game on (Eu) PSN is Resonance of Fate, published by Sega.

 

[squall211]

SO5 as a series reboot makes it feeling like SO1 make more sense to me.

I only played SO1 once, on the PSP years ago, so my memories of playing the game aren't the greatest. What makes SO5 feel like SO1?

 

[Lime]

I only played SO1 once, on the PSP years ago, so my memories of playing the game aren't the greatest. What makes SO5 feel like SO1?

I haven't imported the game, but impressions in the thread:

I don't really feel that it has a low budget, just a smaller scope. What's here doesn't feel janky or cheap, it just feels scaled down. I think it works. I've been describing this to people as like "what if SO3 and 4 weren't made, and this game came after SO2" because that's what it feels like to me. Although scope-wise, so far, it feels more like SO1 (the SNES version, mind) than SO2. It all feels very homey to me. Kind of hard to articulate at this point. I'll try to do a better job once I finish it.

I'm super getting an SO1 vibe from it in terms of scale and even the way the characters come together.

Got my copy last night and played like 3 hours. I got up to where I meet up with Anne and Emerson.

It's really good so far. It's a little jarring at first but after getting used to it I really enjoy the way everything just flows together from story into battle pretty much seamlessly. The game definitely aiming to feel like SO1 but with the vibe of SO3/4.

The writing definitely reminds me of Exist Archive and VP right now where the characterization is fairly strong but the character quirks are understated. Fiore, in particular is dressed crazy, but she talks and acts like Lorenta from Valkyrie Profile. That's pretty nice considering how wrong it really could have gone, lol.

Combat is really enjoyable. I like the large party encounters and adjusting the battle system to a core RPS system was a really nice idea. it makes building your bonus really transparent and easily understandable even if you don't read about how to do it. I don't remember it being possible in SO3 or SO4 to walk around and still guard but it's really nice and helpful if it's new, especially because of that RPS system.

The new role system is a nice change for the series and I like that they simplified the overall creation system a little bit, at least from a point allotment standpoint. First encounter with Welch was really jank though... I like her design but that was a jank scene lol.

Looking forward to playing more tonight.

 

[Lime]

New interview by Heidi Kemps for Anime News Network: - lots of stuff on Star Ocean 5, localization, worth a read in full

What would you say are the biggest challenges in releasing a big-budget RPG like this, both in Japan and abroad?

The simple answer: Time and money! [laughs]

The more complex answer… when you think about creating RPGs, you have to consider everything that goes on in the game. Even something as simple as a town—You have to figure out who populates the town, what they do, how they speak, how they move, and so on. You might even have to change these elements in response to event that occur as the player progresses through the game. Star Ocean is very scenario-driven, so a lot of thought has to be put into these things. There might be easier ways to handle all of this, to maybe lessen the amount of scenario work or character planning. For open-world games, maybe there's a big overarching storyline, some sub-quests, and various characters who might not need that much detail, but the world itself is just really big. That's one way to do it. SO5, with its seamless gameplay, is created like an open world, but it's a scenario-driven game, so it wound up being a tremendous amount of work.

Star Ocean 3 felt like it was a pretty conclusive ending to the series, but Star Ocean 4 and Star Ocean 5 have gone to different points in the timeline. Has it been difficult creating new Star Ocean games with SO3's ending in mind?

Well, even the original dev team was of the mindset that Star Ocean 1 through 3 were a trilogy, with a complete story. Star Ocean 4 was the story before that. The users felt the same way—that the story had concluded—but they wanted more of the gameplay they'd come to love from the series. When I went to go talk to Yoshiharu Gotanda, the president of Tri-Ace and the Star Ocean series creator, I asked him if there was anything we could do with the series from this point. Gotanda-san actually replied that he thought they could do a lot more within the series' framework. He even has ideas for the story that go beyond the end of Star Ocean 3. That's why we opted to start a new “season,” so-to-speak, of Star Ocean. In my mind, this is the first story of a new Star Ocean “season.” It is a challenge to create stories like this, but it is a way for us to both start anew and expand the Star Ocean universe.

On Valkyrie Profile:

Tri-Ace was recently purchased by Nepro Japan, a mobile-focused company. Has this changed the way you work with them at all?

Since it's not about our company, we can't really go into detail. There's a lot we don't really know, either. It was mostly for monetary reasons. From what I hear, tri-Ace is a lot healthier now. They still want us to utilize their skills in creating games, so our relationship hasn't changed at all. We've rebuilt our relationship with them through this title, and I'd like to work with them even more in the future.

Is that a hint of Valkyrie Profile 3 in the works?
[laughs]
I really want to make Valkyrie Profile 3! If SO5 is successful, I'd love to work on Valkyrie Profile 3 as soon as possible. But it's a challenge, for sure. Frankly, Valkyrie Profile 1 was a masterpiece, with a lot of unique story and system elements. Valkyrie Profile 2, however, was more like a traditional RPG, and it wasn't as successful. If we do create a new VP, we really need to figure out what users want out of it. Even if we make a Valkyrie Profile 3, we won't be able to make a great game without doing the proper research on what the fans would like. I've been constantly thinking about it.

Let me ask you: If there's a Valkyrie Profile 3, what kind of game would you like it to be?

Me?! Uh, well… do you, uh, want a nice big list of everything I want in a VP3? [laughs] Seriously, though, I love the game's non-traditional structure. I think one of my favorite things about the original Valkyrie Profile was learning about the world and its sorry state through the tragic stories of the Einherjar who Lenneth recruits. The whole game had such a unique, somber tone to it. You didn't get quite the same sense of sorrow in the second game.

Oh, I completely understand what you mean by that! Did you see the very last ending of Valkyrie Profile? Lenneth ascends to godhood, but I don't know what we can do after that. How to expand the story from there is boggling.

You've still got Hrist.

Yes, we do! [laughs] Well, the probability of another VP sequel happening would definitely increase should SO5 become a success!

 

[Koutsoubas]

One thing I dont understand: Suddenly Japanese developers have no idea about HD cutting-edge technology but Western Studios seem to have it.

Is there any explenation for that?

 

[Nyoro SF]

Very interesting interview. See, even he is sick of talking about panties. lol

I don't know if banking on the west for star ocean 5 is wise though... though I don't know how many copies they realistically expect globally to sell.

 

[Famassu]

One thing I dont understand: Suddenly Japanese developers have no idea about HD cutting-edge technology but Western Studios seem to have it.

Is there any explenation for that?

Money. It's not that they don't have any idea of HD tech (though some devs might struggle with the transition since a lot of them have been working on DS, PSP, 3DS & low-budget-ish Vita games for the last ~10 years), it's just more about money. They can't really do anything too fancy because their budgets are limited, yet they can't just crap out something totally unappealing. So they are kind of in this weird place where they have new, great hardware & people expect to get games that take advantage of that, yet they don't have enough resources to really push the hardware to get results much beyond mid-budget PS3 level games with some improved aspects that the hardware can easily do (better textures, improved lighting & other VFX, longer draw distance, higher resolution etc.), but no advanced tech.

 

[Lime]

Very interesting interview. See, even he is sick of talking about panties. lol

I don't know if banking on the west for star ocean 5 is wise though... though I don't know how many copies they realistically expect globally to sell.

No idea either, but as Nirolak mentioned in a Media Create Thread last week, Square Enix seems to be trying to bet on some console jrpgs this generation to revitalize the Japanese console market, but maybe it's too little and too late.

I hope they did all this investment into IPs like SO5 and Nier with the proper expectations in mind.

 

[Nirolak]

I'd be pretty shocked if they actually made any notable market change at the rate they're willing to invest.

Though this one is actually pretty interesting since one IP went traditional console and one went new age mobile, so we get to see which strategy/strategies work/don't work for them with Tri-Ace's stuff.

 

[Mexen]

Make VP 3 a grand tale in every sense of the word but retain the core mechanics! I repeat, change very little of the mechanics in lieu of modernizing the game.

Make console JRPGs great again.

 

[Aters]

So the guy does know what makes VP1 so special. I want a VP3 produced by him.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

I'd be pretty shocked if they actually made any notable market change at the rate they're willing to invest.

Though this one is actually pretty interesting since one IP went traditional console and one went new age mobile, so we get to see which strategy/strategies work/don't work for them with Tri-Ace's stuff.

Well it's not like they went the Capcom did with Breath of Fire (with BoF6) and made VP3 for mobile, or anything. Honestly sounds like the VP mobile game and SO5 are the test beds before greenlighting VP3, so people will basically have to make sure they support Tri-Ace's own IPs or else they might just be put back on Final Fantasy spin off duties again.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I'd be pretty shocked if they actually made any notable market change at the rate they're willing to invest.

Though this one is actually pretty interesting since one IP went traditional console and one went new age mobile, so we get to see which strategy/strategies work/don't work for them with Tri-Ace's stuff.

I don't think any amount of money invested into Japanese console games can materially change the Japanese gaming market at this point. There would have to be a shift in the economy and culture that leaves consumers with more disposable money and time as well as a total collapse of the mobile market.

 

[Putyouinmyoven]

Seems like a good dude!

 

[djtiesto]

I'd be pretty shocked if they actually made any notable market change at the rate they're willing to invest.

Though this one is actually pretty interesting since one IP went traditional console and one went new age mobile, so we get to see which strategy/strategies work/don't work for them with Tri-Ace's stuff.

I think we can already see where this is gonna go... (bad for me, but I'm sure you and Duckroll will be happy).

Anyways, I'm glad the producer is still aware that westerners like the SO series and is looking forward to western feedback. (just as long as he doesn't take advice like "needz moar gunzzzz n moar bald space marines!!!"

 

[Flopfan]

Not sure if tri-ace and their storytelling/writing would be up to the task, but I could see the dark and sad tragedies in VP1 as a potential route to take if they went in the Souls direction. The stories in VP1 were so raw (albeit melodramatic, but nevertheless something so raw you rarely, if ever see, in video games).

Continuing that tragic tradition would do wonders for VP3 I think.

I agree. It's amazing that mature fantasy was done first by an obscure developer in the late 90s , way before it became mainstream. I want more JRPGs to go that direction.