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[Sephimoth]

Just watched this 26 min vid which should be of interest to classic Tomb Raider fans, demonstrating Crystal Dynamics contempt for the original (and better) Tomb Raider games.



The recent (strongest) case being the pathetic warning they slapped on the new remasters, even though they had no hand in its development. Calling the original devs racists:

But the video showcases a history of snide comments and digs Crystal have made over the years which I wasn't aware of. There's one in particular that could be coincidental though (the buried model)

Wish the franchise was handed to someone else who respects the original vision. You know Crystal are seething that the remasters sold well.

 

[TGO]

The original team at Crystal Dynamics isn't even at CD anymore, nearly all the key people that did Legend, Anniversary & Underworld have either left or was fired.
Eric Lindstrom who wrote Legend and Directed and wrote Underworld reveal a bit about the people currently at CD after he was fired, including cutting contents to make up exclusive DLC for Xbox.
Some worked on Tomb Raider 2013 but Rise, Shadow and the new Development Team aren't the same people from 2006

 

[GrayChild]

I still remember how these "culturally sensitive" and "well-researched" jerks were placing Bulgarian and Serbian texts they probably found on Google in modern-day Siberia just because they're using Cyrillic script (which was actually adopted by Russia at a much later stage). However, instead of crying online and complaining about cultural appropriation, the locals were laughing their asses off.

I think the director of Rise of the Tomb Raider joined Insomniac at a later date, becoming one of the most obnoxiously woke people in the industry.

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

So, I can't really argue against representations of certain ethnicities or cultures being insensitive for their time, because it has been a while since I played those games. I genuinely don't remember.

I do believe that warning is incredibly embarrassing, regardless. And over-compensating for literally no reason beyond virtue signaling and moral superiority.

But there's one thing that I remember, and it goes against what CD has said they would do with Lara going forward. That makes whatever they will do, and what they have already done, inferior to the version of Lara they hate so much.

Lara Croft was an (well written) asshole, and her depiction as a Tomb Raider was very unapologetic in the original games.

She is very smart, and very culturely and historically knowledgeable.
But, her main goal was, I want that thing. And I crave what will happen on my way to that thing. She was an adventure-freak.

And if there was a thing, standing in front of the thing, be it an animal, a dinosaur, a white person, a black person, asian, whatever, her response was bang and bang.

And this is subjective, but I fucking love that.
It made her unique as a character. Despite the stories going about what you aspect, when you have a anti-hero protagonist (Hero is morally grey or questionable, but the Villains want what Hero wants for way worse reasons).

I can see why CD have such a disdain for that era of Lara.

But, my response is, do something more interesting.

And all they have given us in return was, literal torture porn, a three-split personality protagonist that goes between homicidal maniac, to innocent White Savior angel, to regular socially awkward woman, and...

A bow and arrow? Which according to them, is iconic? Somehow? More iconic then dual welding pistols, which was a thing that Lara Croft made iconic in video games?

Say what you will about old Lara, but... She was very much herself. She didn't get murder boners. Killing was a means to an end.
Her motivations were clear, and... I didn't get the impression that the devs were getting off on her moaning while dying or falling on the ground hard.

 

[Wildebeest]

Underworld was actually quite good IMO. Shame it didn't shift enough units.

 

[peek]

Yup, these devs are weirdos that make their political stance VERY clear. Not surprised if they intend to inject as much of their modern day world views into their games to the point of being obnoxious.

That cringe trigger warning message in their remaster set was just... xD

 

[Generic]

Old Tomb Raider games have clunky controls and annoying hitscan enemies.

 

[March Climber]

Side note, these are underrated gems of the franchise:

It made me miss when some Isometric games used to have puzzles in them. Now they're mostly just trying to be Diablo with more or less grind.

 

[semiconscious]

Lara Croft was an asshole, and her depiction as a Tomb Raider was very unapologetic in the original games.

She is very smart, and very culturely and historically knowledgeable.
But, her main goal was, I want that thing. And I crave what will happen on my way to that thing. She was an adventure-freak.

And if there was a thing, standing in front of the thing, be it an animal, a dinosaur, a white person, a black person, asian, whatever, her response was bang and bang...

great post!...

i just happen to be reading the parker books, by richard stark, lately. parker's a very talented criminal, specializing in robberies. he scores, enjoys spending his earnings, & then plans his next score. so, yeah, he knows his stuff, he's in it for the rewards/thrills, & does whatever's necessary (they're extremely low-key, well done stories)...

you're very correct in saying that it's qualities similar to these (along with another, um, couple things), that's what make lara croft so distinctive/iconic. she's not nice. she's not good. she's not bad. she's amoral. as a huge fan of the original trilogy, it's been very disappointing for a very long time now watching this once-unique character being transformed by crystal dynamics into a pathetic stereotype...


&, yes, that warning statement's just fucking embarrassing. we're not children. we're adults, just like you. we're capable of figuring shit out ourselves. stop talking down to us...

 

[Hypereides]

I'm just gonna say it. Crystal is unfit to be creatively in charge of Tomb raider and its universe. They're in the process of undoing everything that made the originals and Lara special.

It needs to be handed to someone who cherishes the original games without some weird disdain for them.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Side note, these are underrated gems of the franchise:

It made me miss when some Isometric games used to have puzzles in them. Now they're mostly just trying to be Diablo with more or less grind.

Temple of Osiris was a step back, but Guardian of Light is legit one of the best co-op experiences I’ve ever had in gaming.

 

[Shifty1897]

Imagine profiting off another dev's hard work and then calling them all racists on a splash screen 2 seconds into the remaster.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Crystal Dynamics is without any doubt one of my dream studio closures.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

So, I can't really argue against representations of certain ethnicities or cultures being insensitive for their time, because it has been a while since I played those games. I genuinely don't remember.

I do believe that warning is incredibly embarrassing, regardless. And over-compensating for literally no reason beyond virtue signaling and moral superiority.

But there's one thing that I remember, and it goes against what CD has said they would do with Lara going forward. That makes whatever they will do, and what they have already done, inferior to the version of Lara they hate so much.

Lara Croft was an asshole, and her depiction as a Tomb Raider was very unapologetic in the original games.

She is very smart, and very culturely and historically knowledgeable.
But, her main goal was, I want that thing. And I crave what will happen on my way to that thing. She was an adventure-freak.

And if there was a thing, standing in front of the thing, be it an animal, a dinosaur, a white person, a black person, asian, whatever, her response was bang and bang.

And this is subjective, but I fucking love that.
It made her unique as a character. Despite the stories going about what you aspect, when you have a anti-hero protagonist (Hero is morally grey or questionable, but the Villains want what Hero wants for way worse reasons).

I can see why CD have such a disdain for that era of Lara.

But, my response is, do something more interesting.

And all they have given us in return was, literal torture porn, a three-split personality protagonist that goes between homicidal maniac, to innocent White Savior angel, to regular socially awkward woman, and...

A bow and arrow? Which according to them, is iconic? Somehow? More iconic then dual welding pistols, which was a thing that Lara Croft made iconic in video games?

Say what you will about old Lara, but... She was very much herself. She didn't get murder boners. Killing was a means to an end.
Her motivations were clear, and... I didn't get the impression that the devs were getting off on her moaning while dying or falling on the ground hard.

Tomb raider is a relic from the 90s when games were unapologetically edgy, violent and sexy.

Ofcourse no modern dev wants to touch that.

 

[winjer]

Tomb Raider Anniversary and Legend were absolutely mediocre games. The lowest point in the franchise, after Angel of Darkness.
Underworld was a bit better, but still not great.

The newer trilogy is better, but Lara went from being an explorer on fun adventures, to being a blood thirty psychopath on a killing rampage, executing people as if she was a part of Wagner.

It's time to give Tomb Raider to another studio. One that is more competent and respects what the franchise legacy.

 

[Principal]

What a crazy thing to say and do, trash the architechs of your good fortune...

 

[Madflavor]

I wrote off Tomb Raider a couple months ago, mostly because of that tabletop game with the new unified Lara, where it talked about how ashamed they were of her colonialization past. That she's no longer a Tomb Raider, but a "Truth Seeker". It may not have been CD that said it, but it obviously had to go through their approval since that game is using the new canon Lara, so it obviously was something CD agreed with.

But I had a blast with TR I-III Remastered, and I'm perfectly fine with just enjoying the older games. I'll play the shit out of TR IV Remastered if that ever comes out too. But I have little interest in whatever they're cooking up with the next big game. It sounds like it's going to be Ubisoft style Open World bullshit, with a boring watered down version of the character.

 

[FunkMiller]

Lara Croft was an asshole, and her depiction as a Tomb Raider was very unapologetic in the original games.

She is very smart, and very culturely and historically knowledgeable.
But, her main goal was, I want that thing. And I crave what will happen on my way to that thing. She was an adventure-freak.

Sadly, this Lara is gone. At least as long as the current zeitgeist sticks around.

We cannot have flawed female protagonists these days. There could be some very interesting things to say about Lara being an asshole who just wants to keep stuff for herself, and how that conflicts with being more sensitive to cultures from around the world... but they won't do it, because that wouldn't paint the female protagonist in the best light, and we can't have that.

Instead, Lara will be the one fighting against the evil profiteers who are just after the riches of the third world to exploit them.

Bland, soulless female heroes, who learn nothing, don't grow at all, and face no challenges or conflicts to their world views or opinions.

 

[nkarafo]

The original staff should reconnect and sue them for this warning message. Apparently their behavior is "inexcusable" and their work is "harmful". It also paints the fans of the original games in a similar bad light.

They could word this a bit differently and mention it's just a byproduct of those times etc, the usual shitty politically correct stuff. But no, there's no mention of this, the message could be from any game even a recent one. They went full attack on the developers here. This fucking virtue signaling and holier than thou behavior has reached the point where "everyone except me is the devil" now. It needs to have some consequences.

Sue them for defamation.

 

[Sephimoth]

Kinda odd that a woke Californian company are the custodians of a British icon anyway.

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

We cannot have flawed female protagonists these days. There could be some very interesting things to say about Lara being an asshole who just wants to keep stuff for herself, and how that conflicts with being more sensitive to cultures from around the world... but they won't do it, because that wouldn't paint the female protagonist in the best light, and we can't have that.

The Yakuza/Like A Dragon games have done morally grey/questionable protagonists or antagonists, that have their actions or words lead to insensitive or bad things, and the series is quite popular, with those characters being quite loved (Some "sus" characters that I wouldn't be caught dead loving, but, whatever)

I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way, I totally agree.
I'm pointing out that it can be done, with a female character as well. But they wouldn't consider it.

Also, Lara going full White Savior in Shadow, was more offensive to me then ANYTHING the original Lara did.

Even though I have no idea how anyone can be offended by the original Lara, when her intentions were pretty clear and simple, and "let me piss on your culture and history" wasn't one of them.

Instead, Lara will be the one fighting against the evil profiteers who are just after the riches of the third world to exploit them.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the direction they went with.

Because in the Reboot, they were pussy footing around that...

Bland, soulless female heroes, who learn nothing, don't grow at all, and face no challenges or conflicts to their world views or opinions.

Speaking on the bland and soulless, I remembered this yesterday, I don't know if you played the Reboots or not, but in Rise and Shadow, her main motivation was basically her father.

She went on adventures not because she wanted to, or because she was horny for adventure and danger, but because she wanted to whatever her father's legacy.

There's nothing exciting about her. If she didn't look the way she did, everyone would agree that she is aggressively mediocre.

 

[rabbity-thing]

The recent (strongest) case being the pathetic warning they slapped on the new remasters, even though they had no hand in its development. Calling the original devs racists:

What? You guys never seen a CYA warning before? To start, no this warning does not call the original devs racist. Whether or not they think of them that way, I don't know, but to claim that this warning makes the devs out to be racists is a stretch. It only points out that there are depictions that are rooted in prejudice. The warning claims that the stereotypes are inexcusable, not that the devs are inexcusable. It's an important distinction. If one exists in a time and place where certain stereotypes are prevalent and largely unquestioned, then the works that those people create can further spread that prejudice without those people needing to be racist. Think of institutional racism.

Anyway, these kinds of warnings are all over the place. Disney Plus has them for certain cartoons:

And when Warner released the original Tom and Jerry cartoons on DVD, they even had Whoopi Goldberg do a little mini-doc introduction to contextualize the cartoons.



I'm sure people have strong feelings about these kinds of warnings. Personally, they don't bother me. That said, to maybe add some comfort to those of you that despise them, think about it like this. To start, yes, there is art from the past that does not conform to the accepted norms or our time. There are basically, four ways that this mismatch of values can be addressed.

• The media can be released as-is (which can create blowback for larger IP's but is generally fine for cult media)
• The media can be shelved (Like Disney's Song of the South)
• The media can be edited/censored to remove the questionable content.
• The media can be released as-is but given a trigger warning to reduce the blowback

So, yeah, the warnings aren't really condemnations. They add context so that the distributors can release content that they think is valuable as-is without having to censor it, shelve it, or be called out as being racists for failing to recognize the difference in values between the time a work was created and the time that it was re-released. The guys at Crystal basically had to choose between the trigger warning or censorship and I think we can all agree that censorship is almost never the right choice.

 

[Fake]

As long as people understand that a companys name means nothing when the people behind are not working there anymore they will start to ask those stupid question.

This is like asking what is happening with RARE or Blizzard.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I'm sure people have strong feelings about these kinds of warnings. Personally, they don't bother me. That said, to maybe add some comfort to those of you that despise them, think about it like this. To start, yes, there is art from the past that does not conform to the accepted norms or our time. There are basically, four ways that this mismatch of values can be addressed.

• The media can be released as-is (which can create blowback for larger IP's but is generally fine for cult media)
• The media can be shelved (Like Disney's Song of the South)
• The media can be edited/censored to remove the questionable content.
• The media can be released as-is but given a trigger warning to reduce the blowback

So, yeah, the warnings aren't really condemnations. They add context so that the distributors can release content that they think is valuable as-is without having to censor it, shelve it, or be called out as being racists for failing to recognize the difference in values between the time a work was created and the time that it was re-released. The guys at Crystal basically had to choose between the trigger warning or censorship and I think we can all agree that censorship is almost never the right choice.

I don't think the issue here is the trigger warning.

It's how the trigger warning is worded. It's embarrassingly pandering.

They could have just said that the game contains themes and content some players may find offensive and leave it at that. Instead they literally fell over themselves to explain how the game's content is "harmful" and "inexcusable".

The idea that anything in a game can cause actual harm to anyone is just flat out pathetic and embarrassing and just further demonstrates how categorically fragile this "modern audience", these wokesters are pandering to, is.

 

[Laptop1991]

I'm a big fan of the originals , 1 to 4, i played them at the time, i didn't like Angel of Darkness, i liked Legend and Anniversary and Underworld, i never completed the recent trilogy and i'll always prefer the old Lara regardless of modern day agenda, it's just a game at the end of the day and the one's i liked were fun to play.

 

[TGO]

What? You guys never seen a CYA warning before? To start, no this warning does not call the original devs racist.

It says it's "rooted in racial and ethnic prejudice."
If they left out that, you'd have a point.
Core being the original developers means that it came from a team that had racial & ethic prejudice.
Not exactly racist as prejudice is a different thing.
But they're still pointing the finger as they literally say so.