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What determines if a game is considered an RPG vs something else?

FMX

Member
I am currently playing through Chrono Trigger (which in my opinion is the greatest video game ever made) again and was wondering what are the criteria/standard for being considered a rpg? Why isn't Zelda considered a RPG but Cyberpunk is? Why is Cyberpunk considered a RPG but not GTA? Then you have the Witcher series, Diablo, etc.
 
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TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Being able to role-play ingame, which means the player being able to express themselves by choosing how to tackle the challenges and/or the story.

JRPGs aren't really RPGs most of the time.
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Why isn't Zelda considered a RPG but Cyberpunk is?
Because in games like Cyberpunk you have different builds while Zelda is an adventure game, you have different tools to fight and solve puzzles but you cant have different build in that game.
 

MSduderino

Member
talent trees for different builds and/or meaningful choices (often via dialogue) that affect story/game environment
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
I am currently playing through Chrono Trigger (which in my opinion is the greatest video game ever made) again and was wondering what are the criteria/standard for being considered a rpg? Why isn't Zelda considered a RPG but Cyberpunk is? Why is Cyberpunk considered a RPG but not GTA? Then you have the Witcher series, Diablo, etc.

This is an issue that has divided nerds since time immemorial.

I think it comes down mostly to two things: 1) lots of options for different ways to craft your character/playstyle, so your build is very different than someone else's and has different options to handle situations (e.g., guns vs. stealth vs speech) and 2) choice & consequence within the narrative (i.e., branching paths). I'm sure people can point to exceptions (e.g., RPGs that don't feature any choice/consequence in the narrative), but those are the two elements that stand out to me.

Zelda and GTA aren't considered RPGs because they don't have much of the latter, whereas Cyberpunk does.

The boundaries have been blurred for a decade or more, though, because nearly every game has "RPG elements" of some sort.
 
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hemo memo

You can't die before your death
What defines an RPG is having a progression system, but defining what isn't an RPG can't be done.
 

Denton

Member
For a game to be RPG it should have:

- character building / progression system, ideally in both attributes/skills and equipment
- nonlinear story with focus on player agency, choices and consequences (and this is why JRPG is a separate genre)
- ideally at least some focus on exploration

Golden standard in RPGs is Fallout 2 and Arcanum. In Fallout 2, you have a nonlinear story, deep character progression, and the stuff that game lets you do (even if in basic form) - you can become a slaver, or a slave, or pornstar, or chemist, or junkie, or gravedigger, or sharpshooter, or scientist...

Cyberpunk has detailed character progression and lot of choice and consequence as well as player agency, in both its gameplay mechanics and its quests and story. That makes it an RPG.
GTA is a linear action game set in an open city.
 
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Since DnD was basically the first successful RPG system, it's basically anything that employs similar systems with varying degrees of depth; it's also one of the reasons I despise the 'metroidvania' grouping monicker, because one part of that name uses traditional rpg progression systems, while the other doesn't at all.
 

Muffdraul

Member
Once upon a time, "RPG" generally meant reminiscent of D&D. Player characters and monsters boiled down to a list of atk/def/intelligence/charisma/etc. stats and HP. Turn based combat to some degree or another. And so forth.

That was a long time ago, things got way more complicated ages ago.
 

hemo memo

You can't die before your death
For a game to be RPG it should have:

- character building / progression system, ideally in both attributes/skills and equipment
- nonlinear story with focus on player agency, choices and consequences (and this is why JRPG is a separate genre)
- ideally at least some focus on exploration


Golden standard in RPGs is Fallout 2 and Arcanum. In Fallout 2, you have a nonlinear story, deep character progression, and the stuff that game lets you do (even if in basic form) - you can become a slaver, or a slave, or pornstar, or chemist, or junkie, or gravedigger, or sharpshooter, or scientist...

Cyberpunk has detailed character progression and lot of choice and consequence as well as player agency, in both its gameplay mechanics and its quests and story. That makes it an RPG.
GTA is a linear action game set in an open city.
FFXIII is an RPG with a very linear story. Crisis Core is an RPG without exploration. So I think the only must for an RPG to be called an RPG is a progression system.
 

Mozzarella

Member
Stat based gameplay or RPG mechanics are the main thing.
Leveling systems, builds, skill tree, basically progression.
Secondary thing are the choices and player agency.

Devil May Cry has no builds, no leveling and the game has rank based on how you execute your combo - Action game
Dark Souls has builds, levels and you deal damage based on those numbers, progression is key - RPG

Technically its Action RPGs that are hybrid between Action gameplay and RPG gameplay, they are still RPGs
The most pure form of RPG gameplay is Turn-based.
 

kevboard

Member
a main focus of the game's design is on increasing stats of one or more characters by leveling up through gaining XP, which allows you to customise the strengths and weaknesses of your character in order to build a, well... "build" of your liking.

it's that simple
 
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proandrad

Member
a main focus of the game's design is on increasing stats of one or more characters by leveling up through gaining XP, which allows you to customise the strengths and weaknesses of your character in order to build a, well... "build" of your liking.

it's that simple
How is that role playing? I feel like another term should be used for that.
 

kevboard

Member
How is that role playing? I feel like another term should be used for that.

video game genres aren't literal descriptions of what they are about.
old genre titles like RPG in particular came to be because at the time of them being coined, all games where you play a "role" had these stat and xp driven design principles.

just like an Action Adventure game doesn't mean you go on an adventure (if it did then basically every game would be an adventure game, which is obviously not the case).
an adventure game is a game that has a focus on exploration and environmental puzzle solving, usually by finding/combining/using items on the way. because the name was coined with Text Adventures, which focused on exactly that, and were succeeded by graphics adventures (of which point and click adventures are a subgenre) which also focused on these traits.

when Action Adventures then came into the frame, they took these item collecting, exploration and puzzle solving of the other Adventure genres, and added action elements to them. back in the day "action" simply meant that a game tests your real time gaming skills such as reaction time, real time problem solving, precision etc.
"action" therefore could be everything from simple platforming to hardcore real time combat.


in short, if we wanted to describe a game genre by exactly what is happening, we would need to rename a lot of them basically 😅 especially any genre that was established before the mid 90s
and that would probably clash with other genre descriptions as well. as "playing a role" could be the description of tons of games that have nothing in common with eachother.
 
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poodaddy

Member
For me personally, it's about choices being meaningful to the gameplay experience. For example, Chrono Trigger, as OP mentioned, does actually have some choices that are meaningful, and many different endings. I'd consider it an RPG, but a bit of a light one. Generally speaking, I find much more RPG like qualities in Western games than Eastern, but the SMT games tend to have interesting choices that affect the story, particularly IV, so I consider those to be RPG's through and through. Hell, I even consider most Immersive Sims RPG's, as you make extremely meaningful choices that affect both gameplay and story.
 

KàIRóS

Member
I am currently playing through Chrono Trigger (which in my opinion is the greatest video game ever made) again and was wondering what are the criteria/standard for being considered a rpg? Why isn't Zelda considered a RPG but Cyberpunk is? Why is Cyberpunk considered a RPG but not GTA? Then you have the Witcher series, Diablo, etc.

Like always everyone ignored the first post and just responded to the title.

Anyway, It's very simple OP, game mechanics are what determines the genre of a videogame, Super Mario Bros is a platformer because it's main mechanics revolve around jumping from platform to platform, a more complex example is Resident Evil which is a Survival Horror because it's main mechanics revolve around surviving with a (often) very weak character, mechanics like ammo conservation, low health, and slow clunky combat are typical in this genre to make the player feel vulnerable and invoke fear in them.

The main mechanics in an RPG revolve around progression and leveling systems with statistics which then determine the outcome of your actions, Zelda is an Action Adventure because it doesn't have the leveling systems typical of RPGs (with the exception of Zelda 2, you could argue that one is an ARPG) same thing with GTA, on the other hand Chrono Trigger is an RPG because all your playable characters have statistics and levels to determine their effectiveness in battle, it would be near impossible to keep progressing in the game with a low level party and thus leveling them and increasing their stats is necessary for progression.
 

EruditeHobo

Member
Why isn't Zelda considered a RPG but Cyberpunk is?

The main mechanics in an RPG revolve around progression and leveling systems with statistics which then determine the outcome of your actions, Zelda is an Action Adventure because it doesn't have the leveling systems typical of RPGs (with the exception of Zelda 2, you could argue that one is an ARPG) same thing with GTA, on the other hand Chrono Trigger is an RPG because all your playable characters have statistics and levels to determine their effectiveness in battle, it would be near impossible to keep progressing in the game with a low level party and thus leveling them and increasing their stats is necessary for progression.

This.

Progression of your character is based hugely on stats that are visible to the player. That's what an RPG is. How nothing to do with what kind of story you're playing, or whether your choices affect the story, or whether there are classes even. It's based on stats, and improving those stats to become more powerful.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
I am currently playing through Chrono Trigger (which in my opinion is the greatest video game ever made) again and was wondering what are the criteria/standard for being considered a rpg? Why isn't Zelda considered a RPG but Cyberpunk is? Why is Cyberpunk considered a RPG but not GTA? Then you have the Witcher series, Diablo, etc.
I would say when you can "role play" as different personas or archetypes. From that perspective Zelda is not an RPG, neither is Chrono Trigger, etc. It's difficult nowadays to put a finger on what it means exactly.
 

Fbh

Member
To me a proper RPG is a game where a big focus is customizing and improving your character in multiple ways through various stats, skills and additional mechanic (like classes/jobs, loot, etc) as well as being given a relatively high amount of freedom in regards to the story and how your character behaves and interacts with others.

I love JRPG's and I see them as their own genre but personally I don't really see most of them as RPG's since you often have no input in regards to the story and are given no flexibility in how to build your character.
 

Poplin

Member
RPG usually suggests stats, some form of inventory management, and some form of character decision making as you level (e.g. allocating stats, or picking the right equipment and gear, etc).

In the 90s and 00s, that was the main criteria, because most games didnt have RPG elements (e.g. no levelups, no party management, no inventory management, etc). Symphony of the night for example, was initially described as having rpg elements because of the stats and gear, but in mixing rpg stats and inventory with metroid, we got metroidvania as a genre.

Nowadays it feels like some people use RPG for mechanics (stat management, inventrory, etc), while others use it to mean narrative agency (e.g. making decisions that impact the story and quests).

But its all muddy now because of ARPG as a concept, and how few "pure" genre games exist anymore. Everything borrows mechanics from everything, so its now just a marketing term.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Character statistics, leveling up.... Those two are using the most important thing that defines role-playing games.
 

samuelgregory

Neo Member
This is an issue that has divided nerds since time immemorial.

I think it comes down mostly to two things: 1) lots of options for different ways to craft your character/playstyle, so your build is very different than someone else's and has different options to handle situations (e.g., guns vs. stealth vs speech) and 2) choice & consequence within the narrative (i.e., branching paths). I'm sure people can point to exceptions (e.g., RPGs that don't feature any choice/consequence in the narrative), but those are the two elements that stand out to me.

Zelda and GTA aren't considered RPGs because they don't have much of the latter, whereas Cyberpunk does.

The boundaries have been blurred for a decade or more gachaneb, though, because nearly every game has "RPG elements" of some sort.
RPG is a pretty open-ended term these days. A lot of games claim to be RPGs because they have a skill tree or something like that. I don’t think there is a clear cut list of features that make a game an RPG anymore.

In my mind, an RPG has to have experience points you earn and levels for your character or party. You get stronger the higher your level. Skill trees don’t have to be a part of it but learning new abilities as you level up should be part of the mechanics whether you have skill trees or just learn new attacks or spells at certain points. This isn’t doctrine whatsoever though.
 
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Humdinger

Gold Member
RPG is a pretty open-ended term these days. A lot of games claim to be RPGs because they have a skill tree or something like that. I don’t think there is a clear cut list of features that make a game an RPG anymore.

For my money, the defining criteria of an RPG is contained within the name itself: the ability to play a role of your choosing/design (as opposed to one determined by the game). That choice might appear in the character creator (e.g., attribute choices); it might appear in the way you build out your character (skills you choose to emphasize), or it could come in the form of choices in how you approach quests. It doesn't need to have all of these options, but it needs to have some of them - enough that two different players could have two very different experiences, depending on what roles they choose (i.e., how they build out their characters).

I mean, it can't be a "role playing" game if you aren't allowed to play different roles within the game. That's where the term came from - table-top RPGs like D&D, where gamers chose and developed very different roles within the game.

If you're just progressing along a linear path, that's not an RPG. If you're just levelling up based on experience, but the game has a preset path for that leveling, that's not an RPG.

That's how it stacks up to me, anyway. I take the "role playing" aspect of an RPG as a central defining feature. The rest (like progression and leveling) is what I'd call "RPG elements," but not core, defining features. You find those features in many games, but it doesn't make them RPGs. If you don't have choice in the role you're playing, you're not playing an RPG. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

In my mind, an RPG has to have experience points you earn and levels for your character or party. You get stronger the higher your level. Skill trees don’t have to be a part of it but learning new abilities as you level up should be part of the mechanics whether you have skill trees or just learn new attacks or spells at certain points. This isn’t doctrine whatsoever though.

Leveling is (imho) an RPG element, but not a core, defining feature of an RPG. Many shooters have leveling and statistical progression - you get stronger by earning XP (although they may call it something different). These shooters aren't RPGs, though, because there is no option to build out your character in your own, unique way. You level up, but you do it along a linear, pre-determined path. You don't have any choice about how you level up. That isn't an RPG.

Ultimately, the definition doesn't matter that much. RPG nuts get serious about their games, because they spend so much time with them, and they tend toward being a bit on the obsessive side. They can get fussy and purist about the RPG label. But it doesn't really matter. It's not as if "RPG" is an honorific. What matters is whether the game is good or not.
 
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It's really hard to say. Kind of an "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it" thing.

At some point in the 7th gen every action game started getting what they called "RPG elements" ie narrative choices, levelling, and/or a skill tree and the waters really got muddied.

Games like Borderlands have the levelling systems, loot, and progression mechanics you would expect from an RPG, but personally I would never consider it to be one. Hell, you could justifiably call CoD multiplayer an RPG if you wanted to.

I think Cyberpunk gets the term applied to it so often because beyond having progression and choice it's also based on a long running ttrpg. Personally I would consider both it and Witcher 3 rpgs but that just goes to show how hard the definition is to actually pin down.

Also JRPG needs to be seen as a different genre that happens to have a similar name. They're traditionally totally linear games with set level, ability, and loot progression and no meaningful choices. The early examples were inspired by dungeon crawler CRPGs like Wizardry and Ultima, but they didn't carry over the actual rpg mechanics from those games.
 
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Hollowpoint5557

A Fucking Idiot
Madden NFL is the greatest and longest running RPG series with the most entries in the industry to me. It has stats, progression, role playing, and player interaction. This just goes to show you that the term "RPG" really doesn't mean much these days.
 
I know what isn't an RPG. That is when the game fakes progression by having your stats increase at level up but have it balanced out by the enemies getting stronger, thus reaching equilibrium. The game wanted the level up to make the player happy but doesn't want to give the player any benefits.

Fundamentally Western RPGs and Eastern RPGs are different in many ways, but they have something in common; both have the skill of the player being less important than the stats of the character. If you can beat the entire game using skill alone with no level up then you are playing an adventure game. An RPG need to have the stats of the character matter. You can't just have a level 1 character never missing an arrow just because the player is really good. The idea here is that the character is the one improving, NOT player skill. And that the more player skill matters like with Mass Effect 2 vs Mass Effect 1, the less of an RPG you got.

In that respect Zelda Call of the Wild is an adventure game, because Link might be able to increase stamina and hearts, but his ability to do damage was the same the entire game. He was already the hero and speedrunners show that none of the stat increases matter. RPG requires that if a character is weak, or dumb, or slow, then that character need to act accordingly.
 
Madden NFL is the greatest and longest running RPG series with the most entries in the industry to me. It has stats, progression, role playing, and player interaction. This just goes to show you that the term "RPG" really doesn't mean much these days.

I love the games but I hate the fact that you basically need a guide if you want to complete all the social links and unlock the true ending where you fight John Madden.
 
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Sophist

Member
It comes from paper role playing games and must have: leveling, characters statistics, dice roll (randomness). Zelda games have none of these excepting Zelda 2 on NES.
The dice rolling is implicit and automatic in most games (critical hit, the amount of steps before the next battle, status effects, ...).
The creator of dragon quest defined the JRPG genre as the mix of crpg and adventure or, as he says, ultima + wizardry.
ultima: no random encounter, 2d view from the top
JxIECq1.jpeg

wizardry: random encounter, first-person view
P6xwezl.png


Dragon quest is literally the mix of both.
 

Filben

Member
It's what people agree on. There's no "Council of Genre Specification" or anything like it. Some people start calling X genre Y and if enough people agree on that and call it that, too, it gets established.

Zelda doesn't really have stats except for life points and mana; no randomness/dice rolls; there's no other way to play Link as he's meant to be played by the dev team; there's no choices and consequences.

And despite neatly sorted categories – which we want to have for convenience and which won't always work out – it's about intelligibility, like with everything in regards of language. When you ask for an RPG (in the most general way) you'll probably get answers from Diablo to The Witcher to Baldur's Gate and Final Fantasy, with each of them couldn't be any more different inside that genre. You won't get Super Mario for an answer, though.

There's a reason sub genres or affixes exist, like JRPG, cRPG, action RPG, turn-based RPG, SRPG, and of course there's games blending these categories.
 

samoilaaa

Member
rpg means i can make a character and i shape that character the way i want , his build , his fighting style , his personality

you dont need a character creation but only if you have a deep build variety and branching narrative that allows you to be the type of person you want to be
 
Experience points and numerical values for character attributes like stamina/health, strength, agility, intelligence, wisdom etc. and, yeah, constant dice rolls based on these values.
 
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