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[The Bookerman]

Toshiba 26 inch widescreen TVHD (model 26HF85)

I dunno much about televisions... but the specs look alright. I know i should get a bigger TV but I don't need a sasquatch TV anyway.

Tell me what you think.

 

[Shogmaster]

Toshiba 26 inch widescreen TVHD (model 26HF85)

I dunno much about televisions... but the specs look alright. I know i should get a bigger TV but I don't need a sasquatch TV anyway.

Tell me what you think.

Ooh! User selectable 540p! 960x540p 26" CRT for $600 ain't too bad me thinks. It's not quite 1280x720p, but it's huge improvement over 853x480p.

Infact, because it gives me the progressive option, I think it's even better than the Sony CRTs!

 

[TheGamingGuru]

Ooh! User selectable 540p! 960x540p 26" CRT for $600 ain't too bad me thinks. It's not quite 1280x720p, but it's huge improvement over 853x480p.

Infact, because it gives me the progressive option, I think it's even better than the Sony CRTs!

No dude..its not better then sony's crt's lol..not even close though its not a bad tv. Sony's crt tv's with super fine pitch are the pinnacle of hdtv pq. Super fine pitch tubes provide 1400 lines of horizontal resolution while any other direct view crt tv including this tv this poster is considering provides 850 lines of resolution..its not even close to sony's top crt's.

Besides...read http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KD_34XBR960/4505-6481_7-30787600-2.html?tag=top

Or go to avs forums and readup on these direct view tv's..the sony's are ace

 

[u_neek]

Yes!

But for the Revolution I would recommend this:

 

[golem]

although you mention the size, really thats a pretty small viewing area

 

[Shogmaster]

No dude..its not better then sony's crt's lol..not even close though its not a bad tv. Sony's crt tv's with super fine pitch are the pinnacle of hdtv pq. Super fine pitch tubes provide 1400 lines of horizontal resolution while any other direct view crt tv including this tv this poster is considering provides 850 lines of resolution..its not even close to sony's top crt's.

Besides...read http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KD_34XBR960/4505-6481_7-30787600-2.html?tag=top

Or go to avs forums and readup on these direct view tv's..the sony's are ace

My bought my parents a Sony CRT, and have researched plenty into the Superfine pitch Aperture Grille Sony sets. Trust me, this is an old subject that we've been rehashing here.

My problem with the Sony sets (even the almighty 34XS955 and 34XBR960) is that they all force 1080i output on everything, no matter what the source is, and even when some of their higher end tubes can show 720p natively! Really bugs me on that one.

I can't stand interlacing flicker, and if the set's physical res was high enough to accommodate 1080i with mere line doubling that'd be fine, but since 1400x900 or whatever the new superfine pitch are capable of isn't so neat a downcoversion, I can definitely get bothered the flicker on straight lines and text.

So I'd much rather have 1280x720p downcoverted to 960x540 progressive on a 960x540 physical tube rather than 1280x720p sideconverted to 1920x1080i then shown on 1400x900 physical tube.

 

[TheGamingGuru]

Thats mearly a matter of personal opinion..but if you do enough research or go to avs forums and get feedback from guys that actually work in the industry..you'll see that sony's crt's are the best tv's you can buy for direct view tv's..and thats not an opinion, its a fact.

Its true that progressive is better then interlaced..i dont argue with that..but when we talk 720p vs 1080i..the diffrence is VERY hard to tell..i know i work for a local high end home theater shop myself. Also 960x540p does not look better then a 1080i source ..no matter how you try and twist and turn the beneifts of progressive scan.

 

[The Bookerman]

No dude..its not better then sony's crt's lol..not even close though its not a bad tv. Sony's crt tv's with super fine pitch are the pinnacle of hdtv pq. Super fine pitch tubes provide 1400 lines of horizontal resolution while any other direct view crt tv including this tv this poster is considering provides 850 lines of resolution..its not even close to sony's top crt's.

Besides...read http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KD_34XBR960/4505-6481_7-30787600-2.html?tag=top

Or go to avs forums and readup on these direct view tv's..the sony's are ace

It's not even in the same price range...

i don't want to pay a 1000$ more because you say it's not the same quality.

I just want a nice HDTV.


edited: Calmed down.

 

[TheGamingGuru]

It's not even in the same fuckin price range...

i don't want to pay a 1000$ more because you say it's not the same quality.

I just want a nice HDTV.

Calm down, tiger

I didnt reply to you, i replied to shogun or what ever his name is..he said the tv was better then sony's crt and i simply responded and said..no its not lol

Jeepers, you guys take things to heart lol..thats why i dont spend tons of hours online and on message boards..way too many uptight people lol

Cya guys later..off to the zoo with my girlfriend for the day..took the day off work

 

[Shogmaster]

Thats mearly a matter of personal opinion..but if you do enough research or go to avs forums and get feedback from guys that actually work in the industry..you'll see that sony's crt's are the best tv's you can buy for direct view tv's..and thats not an opinion, its a fact.

I've owned nothing but Sony Aperture Grilles for all my CRT needs for the last 8 years. I think I appreciate them pretty damn well, junior.

Its true that progressive is better the interlaced..i dont argue with that..but when we talk 720p vs 1080i..the diffrence is VERY hard to tell..i know i work for a local high end home theater shop myself.

I'm trying to avoid any unwanted artifacting and not interested in how many pixels 1080i pushes over 720p (1080i pushes slightly more than 720p BTW). X360 will proabably render all game @720p, and then let the analog video out chip put it out natively, or sideconvert it to 1080i. This is why I want to avoid 1080i sets for the gaming set. I want to avoid those analog sideconversions that will introduce unwanted interpolation artifacts.

Also 960x540p does not look better then a 1080i source ..no matter how you try and twist and turn the beneifts of progressive scan.

Who said it did? I just like the fact that the manufacturer is giving the user a choice of progressive scan output. Choice is always better. The superfine pitch grille of the XS and XBR line is the absolute best there is, but all that's worthless for me since they take away any options for the user.

 

[TheGamingGuru]

I've owned nothing but Sony Aperture Grilles for all my CRT needs for the last 8 years. I think I appreciate them pretty damn well, junior.



I'm trying to avoid any unwanted artifacting and not interested in how many pixels 1080i pushes over 720p (1080i pushes slightly more than 720p BTW). X360 will proabably render all game @720p, and then let the analog video out chip put it out natively, or sideconvert it to 1080i. This is why I want to avoid 1080i sets for the gaming set. I want to avoid those analog sideconversions that will introduce unwanted interpolation artifacts.



Who said it did? I just like the fact that the manufacturer is giving the user a choice of progressive scan output. Choice is always better. The superfine pitch grille of the XS and XBR line is the absolute best there is, but all that's worthless for me since they take away any options for the user.

My name aint junior lol..im a 31 year old man, my name is Chris that works in a high end home theater shop, bro.

Im simply stating what i know and from the years i've spent buying high end home theater equipment. Everyone has their own opinion and your certainly entitled to yours..im not trying to take that way from ya, im simply stating i know without a doubt that sony's top of the line crt direct view tv sets are the best money can buy, nothing more.

Anyways, nothing wrong with debates and discussions..not trying to turn this into an argument just so you guys know. Im just trying to give my input from the knowledge i have with home theater equipement.

Oh by the way..the new Sony A10 RP 3LCD CRT's are outstanding... we just put the 42inch on display yesterday and they just flat out rock for gaming and pc connection. They do 1:1 pixel mapping with a home theater pc and look stunning and xbox looks amazing running on it with zero lag/blurring. They have 12ms response time..good for next gen consoles.

Check them out http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eKQQVv...p?g=147350&id=essential_info&i=158KD42A10#Tab

Anyways..the lady is ready to leave for the zoo..nice talk'n with ya

 

[Shogmaster]

My name aint junior lol..im a 31 year old man, my name is Chris that works in a high end home theater shop, bro.

I was just referring to the junior member status, Chris that works in a high end home theater shop.

Im simply stating what i know and from the years i've spent buying high end home theater equipment.

You are dime a dozen here at GAF. Plenty of us have just as "extensive" high end HT experience.

Everyone has their own opinion and your certainly entitled to yours..im not trying to take that way from ya, im simply stating i know without a doubt that sony's top of the line crt direct view tv sets are the best money can buy, nothing more.

Ferrari Enzo is one of the best sports car money can buy, but it can be beat at 1/4 mile by a redneck driving a suped up 350cu in V8 on his '69 Camero. It's not about just throwing money on a problem, but targetting the problem for the purpose at hand.

Anyways, nothing wrong with debates and discussions..not trying to turn this into an argument just so you guys know. Im just trying to give my input from the knowledge i have with home theater equipement.

You should browse GAF's many many HT disscussions before jumping in on these. It might save you on some unwanted deabtes.

Oh by the way..the new Sony A10 RP 3LCD CRT's are outstanding...

Your HT guru status is faltering my man.....

we just put the 42inch on display yesterday and they just flat out rock for gaming and pc connection. They do 1:1 pixel mapping with a home theater pc and look stunning and xbox looks amazing running on it with zero lag/blurring. They have 12ms response time..good for next gen consoles.

You give up color depth when going for ultra fast pixel response on LCDs. It's a safe bet that the A10s are using 18bit LCDs with dither.

Check them out http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eKQQVv...p?g=147350&id=essential_info&i=158KD42A10#Tab

Plenty of discussion about the A10s were already made here.

Anyways..the lady is ready to leave for the zoo..nice talk'n with ya

Get going already!

 

[Chewy]

I was just referring to the junior member status, Chris that works in a high end home theater shop.



You are dime a dozen here at GAF. Plenty of us have just as "extensive" high end HT experience.



Ferrari Enzo is one of the best sports car money can buy, but it can be beat at 1/4 mile by a redneck driving a suped up 350cu in V8 on his '69 Camero. It's not about just throwing money on a problem, but targetting the problem for the purpose at hand.



You should browse GAF's many many HT disscussions before jumping in on these. It might save you on some unwanted deabtes.



Your HT guru status is faltering my man.....



You give up color depth when going for ultra fast pixel response on LCDs. It's a safe bet that the A10s are using 18bit LCDs with dither.



Plenty of discussion about the A10s were already made here.



Get going already!

Wow guy, im suprised how you tell that other guy his HT knowledge is faultering when yours seems much more faultering. Infact from what he's said he seems to know what he's talking about especially about those new A10 LCDs that sony just released.

Those new A10's are much more then what you seem to believe. They are probally one of the best RP CRT sets i've ever worked with and most of us at AVS seem to agree. Infact their advanced Iris brings its blacks to a whole new level for RP CRT HDTVs. Better then DLP and PQ is pretty darn close to high end plasma's. The dilther issue a non issue now days, where you been? Those new A10's use 3LCD guns which eliminate alot of past issues from before. I wont get into deep with this with you but lets just say the A10 series is something to behold in person.

They are some very nice tv's. Im work for ABE Tech in NY, im a tv calibrator for home theater clients and have been for close to 20 years, yes im an old timer haha and i must say those new sony A10's are remarkable to say the least.

Also i dont understand why you jump the gun right way about those Toshiba's as you seem to think you understand alot about hdtv's when those Toshiba's arent even made by Toshiba anymore, they are made at the Orion plant by Orion, which are god awful tv sets now days. Toshiba use to make great tv sets but since they been letting outside company's manufacture most of their crt sets, they have fallen down the list big time.

Anyways, it just seems your one of those that dont like to be wrong when you are wrong or when someone comes along with more knowledge in a certain thing, not saying that is the case with you. Nothing wrong with that i guess but i just happend to read this thread and noticed how you sorta were quick to jump on that guy when honestly he seems to know what he's talking about, atleast more then you, no pun intended of course.

One last note about the resolution debate you had with that other guy, he was right, 960x540p just dont hold a candle to Sony's XBR 1080i mode what so ever. Infact it blows it out of the water so i honestly dont see how you can tell someone their HT knowledge is faultering when yours is and in all honestly his isnt what so ever.

Im one of the administrators at avsforum.com, my screenname is David Bott, come over to avs sometime. We are very knowledgeable people over there that can help you out on home theater purchases.

Have a nice day,
Chewy Bott

 

[AB 101]

My bought my parents a Sony CRT, and have researched plenty into the Superfine pitch Aperture Grille Sony sets. Trust me, this is an old subject that we've been rehashing here.

My problem with Sony products

Fixed.

 

[urk]

Ferrari Enzo is one of the best sports car money can buy, but it can be beat at 1/4 mile by a redneck driving a suped up 350cu in V8 on his '69 Camero. It's not about just throwing money on a problem, but targetting the problem for the purpose at hand.

Wow. Are you planning on buying an old, pos television and suping it up? What a horrible analogy.

If you can afford the Enzo, scoop it up. If you can't, grow out your mullet, roll a pack of Pall Malls into your t-shirt sleeve, and hit the junkyard looking for a trash f-body and go around telling everybody its the same thing as a Ferrari.

The Sony CRT's are noted as the standard for HDTV viewing by just about every major review house in the market. Get a clue.

 

[mrklaw]

Have a nice day,
Chewy Bott

Blimey, David Bott lurks at GAF! Nice forum you have there sir


I have a question about your 540p/1080i comment.

For videogames, where the output generally is 60 frames per second, probably progressive, what would be the best compromise if your TV can't handle 720p natively?

eg do you output 1080i and potentially suffer interlace and motion artifacts (combing etc), or do you settle for something lower like 480p to keep the progressive frames intact?

 

[Nerevar]

:lol

another HDTV thread that devolved into Shogmaster complaining about PQ of HD CRT TVs! It's like clockwork on GAF.

(not that I have anything against that Shog)

stuff

wasting your time man. Shog has a personal vendetta against the Sony superfine tubes. He'll crusade against them to the death!

 

[mrklaw]

wasting your time man. Shog has a personal vendetta against the Sony superfine tubes. He'll crusade against them to the death!

yeah, but even the mighty Shog will be quietened by a reposte from the head honcho of avsforum.com

 

[Stinkles]

Im work for ABE Tech in NY, im a tv calibrator for home theater clients and have been for close to 20 years, yes im an old timer haha and i must say those new sony A10's are remarkable to say the least.

\

Then you also know that Sony's low end TVs - WHICH IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE COMPARING THINGS TO HERE - suffer from terrible reliability and weird computer issues - like confusion over widescreen from consoles (you think your Soul Calibur 720p looks weird on your set, try it on a 32 inch Wega) and that they are slightly overpriced per feature.


But Bott being around is going to be very useful - Bott, tell them that 1080i on a CRT looks GREAT veruss 720p and that they should shut up.

 

[Zaptruder]

Wow guy, im suprised how you tell that other guy his HT knowledge is faultering when yours seems much more faultering. Infact from what he's said he seems to know what he's talking about especially about those new A10 LCDs that sony just released.

Those new A10's are much more then what you seem to believe. They are probally one of the best RP CRT sets i've ever worked with and most of us at AVS seem to agree. Infact their advanced Iris brings its blacks to a whole new level for RP CRT HDTVs. Better then DLP and PQ is pretty darn close to high end plasma's. The dilther issue a non issue now days, where you been? Those new A10's use 3LCD guns which eliminate alot of past issues from before. I wont get into deep with this with you but lets just say the A10 series is something to behold in person.

They are some very nice tv's. Im work for ABE Tech in NY, im a tv calibrator for home theater clients and have been for close to 20 years, yes im an old timer haha and i must say those new sony A10's are remarkable to say the least.

Also i dont understand why you jump the gun right way about those Toshiba's as you seem to think you understand alot about hdtv's when those Toshiba's arent even made by Toshiba anymore, they are made at the Orion plant by Orion, which are god awful tv sets now days. Toshiba use to make great tv sets but since they been letting outside company's manufacture most of their crt sets, they have fallen down the list big time.

Anyways, it just seems your one of those that dont like to be wrong when you are wrong or when someone comes along with more knowledge in a certain thing, not saying that is the case with you. Nothing wrong with that i guess but i just happend to read this thread and noticed how you sorta were quick to jump on that guy when honestly he seems to know what he's talking about, atleast more then you, no pun intended of course.

One last note about the resolution debate you had with that other guy, he was right, 960x540p just dont hold a candle to Sony's XBR 1080i mode what so ever. Infact it blows it out of the water so i honestly dont see how you can tell someone their HT knowledge is faultering when yours is and in all honestly his isnt what so ever.

Im one of the administrators at avsforum.com, my screenname is David Bott, come over to avs sometime. We are very knowledgeable people over there that can help you out on home theater purchases.

Have a nice day,
Chewy Bott

So you're saying without hesitation that a 1080i output of a 720p source is preferable to a 540p output of the same source?

Can you notice the interlacing?

I'd personally just save up and go with a larger 720p set.

 

[acidviper]

Toshiba 26 inch widescreen TVHD (model 26HF85)

I dunno much about televisions... but the specs look alright. I know i should get a bigger TV but I don't need a sasquatch TV anyway.

Tell me what you think.

Stop asking if X tv is good. Go test it out. Its only good if it looks good to you. Eye of the beholder etc. etc. People have varying degrees of color blindness and for some people different colors and tones look better to them.

Although this junior is funny. Don't argue with members till you lose the junior tag.

 

[dark10x]

Stop asking if X tv is good. Go test it out. Its only good if it looks good to you.

That's exactly right. It comes down to preference.

 

[Shogmaster]

FUCK! I just traced down and read the manual for this TV. You can choose 540p over 1080i when viewing only from 480p source.

I give up trying to find a proper CRT HDTVs for X360 gaming. Either I'm getting a 720p DLP, or just gonna use my 19" Sony G400 via the official MS VGA cable set. Maybe I just should have jumped at the chance for that 3.0HD Princeton from the no feedback seller on ebay a few weeks back....

 

[dark10x]

See? There's a good example...

Shog is unable to deal with flaws in CRT sets while I am unable to deal with the flaws found in sets based on other technology.

I can't convince him otherwise, and there is no way in hell he could convince me otherwise.

You have to test out sets for yourself and see what you would prefer.

 

[Shogmaster]

Wow guy, im suprised how you tell that other guy his HT knowledge is faultering when yours seems much more faultering. Infact from what he's said he seems to know what he's talking about especially about those new A10 LCDs that sony just released.

Like when he called the A10 a great CRT set? *rolleyes*

Those new A10's are much more then what you seem to believe. They are probally one of the best RP CRT sets i've ever worked with and most of us at AVS seem to agree. Infact their advanced Iris brings its blacks to a whole new level for RP CRT HDTVs.

YOU TOO? Am I in the bizarro world or you geniuses at avs just interchange the term CRT and LCD like that for the hell of it? If it's the same A10s we are talking about, they are LCD projections, not CRT projections.

Better then DLP and PQ is pretty darn close to high end plasma's. The dilther issue a non issue now days, where you been? Those new A10's use 3LCD guns which eliminate alot of past issues from before. I wont get into deep with this with you but lets just say the A10 series is something to behold in person.

CRT: Cathod Ray Tube.
LCD: Liquid Crystal Display.
You two: confused on the difference.

They are some very nice tv's. Im work for ABE Tech in NY, im a tv calibrator for home theater clients and have been for close to 20 years, yes im an old timer haha and i must say those new sony A10's are remarkable to say the least.

A10s are the best LCD rear projections thus far, and rock the world on bang for the buck. But they are not gonna give you true 24bit color depth with such fast response times. Such is the realities of current gen TFT LCDs. But then again, 18bit + dithering does a decent job of simulating 24bit color. That's probably why 99% of the laptop owners never complain about the color depth (all LCDs on laptops are 18bit + dither).

Also i dont understand why you jump the gun right way about those Toshiba's as you seem to think you understand alot about hdtv's when those Toshiba's arent even made by Toshiba anymore, they are made at the Orion plant by Orion, which are god awful tv sets now days. Toshiba use to make great tv sets but since they been letting outside company's manufacture most of their crt sets, they have fallen down the list big time.

I was only jubilant about the 540p option, which for me makes it a better candidate for my gaming purpose. Not that it matters now, I found out that 540p option is only for 480p sources.

Anyways, it just seems your one of those that dont like to be wrong when you are wrong or when someone comes along with more knowledge in a certain thing, not saying that is the case with you. Nothing wrong with that i guess but i just happend to read this thread and noticed how you sorta were quick to jump on that guy when honestly he seems to know what he's talking about, atleast more then you, no pun intended of course.

You two are not doing a great job of representing avs forums (which I do already have an account at, thankyouverymuch), not knowing that A10s are not using CRTs......

One last note about the resolution debate you had with that other guy, he was right, 960x540p just dont hold a candle to Sony's XBR 1080i mode what so ever.

Stop it you two. I NEVER said 960x540 is gonna look better than 1080i. Infact, I stated that 1080i has more pixel definition than 720p already in reply to him! You guys gotta learn to fucking read.

Infact it blows it out of the water so i honestly dont see how you can tell someone their HT knowledge is faultering when yours is and in all honestly his isnt what so ever.

BECAUSE I DIDN'T? HELLO? MCFLY? *knocks on head* God damnit, you two need to get hooked on phonics.

Im one of the administrators at avsforum.com, my screenname is David Bott, come over to avs sometime. We are very knowledgeable people over there that can help you out on home theater purchases.

Have a nice day,
Chewy Bott

avs forums have helped me out bunch of time already. Fortunately, there are plenty of folks there that can tell the difference between CRTs and LCDs.

 

[Truelize]

No 720 = no sale.

 

[Shogmaster]

No 720 = no sale.

I think that boat has sailed for CRTs bigger than 24".....

Goodbye, Princeton 3.0HD........

 

[AB 101]

FUCK! I just traced down and read the manual for this TV. You can choose 540p over 1080i when viewing only from 480p source.

I give up trying to find a proper CRT HDTVs for X360 gaming. Either I'm getting a 720p DLP, or just gonna use my 19" Sony G400 via the official MS VGA cable set. Maybe I just should have jumped at the chance for that 3.0HD Princeton from the no feedback seller on ebay a few weeks back....

I like DLP Shog. I think you would be very happy.

I got the Samsung HL-P5085W (Capt. Kirk). Got it for $2485 so was pretty happy with that.

I do not notice any rainbows myself. Good black levels and nice brightness.

Should last me for a while.


Oh, I think you mean 34" Shog.

 

[Shogmaster]

I like DLP Shog. I think you would be very happy.

I got the Samsung HL-P5085W (Capt. Kirk). Got it for $2485 so was pretty happy with that.

I do not notice any rainbows myself. Good black levels and nice brightness.

Should last me for a while.

I like DLPs alot too. Been watching my buddy's 46" 720 set for oevr a year now.

It's just that they suck at SD sources, and I watch alot of SD cable TV.....

Oh, I think you mean 34" Shog.

34" what? Princeton never had a 34" 720p set. It was a 30" set.

 

[Zaptruder]

I like DLPs alot too. Been watching my buddy's 46" 720 set for oevr a year now.

It's just that they suck at SD sources, and I watch alot of SD cable TV.....



34" what? Princeton never had a 34" 720p set. It was a 30" set.

To be fair, SD sources kinda suck on their own anyway, so an extra notch or two of suckiness will be a small price to pay for crystal clear spooge worthy images coming in the next few years.

In the meantime, don't throw out your old set.

 

[Shogmaster]

To be fair, SD sources kinda suck on their own anyway, so an extra notch or two of suckiness will be a small price to pay for crystal clear spooge worthy images coming in the next few years.

True, but even nicely encoded SD stuff (like from DVDs) scale pretty badly on fixed panels like DLPs. Interpolation is the vein of my HT existance.

In the meantime, don't throw out your old set.

Nosireebob!

 

[Amadeus]

sony has announced their new LCoS (called SXRD at sony)-RPTVs today:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/SonySXRD1080pGrandWEGA.php

i hope that these tvs will make it over to europe

 

[Shogmaster]

sony has announced their new LCoS (called SXRD at sony)-RPTVs today:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/SonySXRD1080pGrandWEGA.php

i hope that these tvs will make it over to europe

[twiddle dee and twiddle dum] And by LCoS, you mean CRTs, right? [/twiddle dee and twiddle dum] :lol

 

[Lord Error]

Tosh's 540p option is neat, and Sony's superfine pitch is nowhere near 1400x900 (more like 1150x650). BUT:

- 540p is not that much different than 480p (60 extra vertical lines is not a big deal on a TV 30" on less). I believe horizontal resolution stays the same actually. Besides I believe you can't even chose to display 720p and 1080i content in 540p. It's only for 480p signal that you can select 540p.
- The overal image quality is not just about the resolution, Toshiba's sets just don't look that great, progressive scan or not. Sony's sets nicely eliminate the 1080i ficker due to high velocity scan and scanline compression (because vertical res is not really enough to show every 1080i line)
- Not to forget, Toshiba is not even making their CRTs anymore. Their CRTs, even the HDTV CRTs, even the actual tubes are not made by Toshiba, but instead by a low-end Thai company called "Orion". Same goes for 30" or lower Panasonic CRT sets (again, completely outsourced to Orion)

If you abso-lutely must play your games in prog scan, I'd still rather take 480p on a CRT TV (downscaled by console from it's 720p buffer) than a real 720p on any other kind of TV. However, I have little doubt that 1080i on a good CRT will be a better option than 480p due to what I explained above.

 

[Amadeus]

[twiddle dee and twiddle dum] And by LCoS, you mean CRTs, right? [/twiddle dee and twiddle dum] :lol

sorry i've haven't read the whole thread if it was only about CRT but on the other side AFAIK CRT will never ever offe full HD (1080P) so i thought i could be useful to post this news.

 

[krypt0nian]

This is what you need for the 360.

Samsung Samsung LN-R238W 23" or the bigger Samsung Samsung LN-R268W 26"

 

[Shogmaster]

Tosh's 540p option is neat, and Sony's superfine pitch is nowhere near 1400x900 (more like 1150x650). BUT:

Accoding to CNET, the newer Superfine pitch is 1400x900ish

- 540p is not that much different than 480p (60 extra vertical lines is not a big deal on a TV 30" on less). I believe horizontal resolution stays the same actually. Besides I believe you can't even chose to display 720p and 1080i content in 540p. It's only for 480p signal that you can select 540p.

Yeah, I found out already that 540p option turned out to be a big bust.

- The overal image quality is not just about the resolution, Toshiba's sets just don't look that great, progressive scan or not.

This is why I helped my parents get the 34HS420. It definitely had the better picture compared to the older Tosh.

Sony's sets nicely eliminate the 1080i ficker due to high velocity scan and scanline compression (because vertical res is not really enough to show every 1080i line)

I can still see flicker though. Much less than other sets I'm sure, but it's noticeable.

- Not to forget, Toshiba is not even making their CRTs anymore. Their CRTs, even the HDTV CRTs, even the actual tubes are not made by Toshiba, but instead by a low-end Thai company called "Orion". Same goes for 30" or lower Panasonic CRT sets (again, completely outsourced to Orion)

Yep. There's been many raging threads about this issue at avs for a while. But then again the Princeton's much vanted 3.0HD was just a dirty old shadow mask set that can't hold a candle to Sony Aperture Grille's color stability and detail. But I'd still much arther have a 720p shadow mask CRT than a 1080i aperture grille CRT for my 720p gaming.

 

[AB 101]

I like DLPs alot too. Been watching my buddy's 46" 720 set for oevr a year now.

It's just that they suck at SD sources, and I watch alot of SD cable TV.....



34" what? Princeton never had a 34" 720p set. It was a 30" set.

Sorry. I was thinking Sony. Yeah, I believe Princeton was 30".

 

[Shogmaster]

This is what you need for the 360.

Samsung Samsung LN-R238W 23" or the bigger Samsung Samsung LN-R268W 26"

FUCK NO. That's a 1366x768 WXGA LCD.

SAY NO TO INTERPOLATION!!! 1280x720 upscaled to 1366x768 is worse than playing 720p X360 games on 1080i CRTs.

 

[krypt0nian]

FUCK NO. That's a 1366x768 WXGA LCD.

SAY NO TO INTERPOLATION!!! 1280x720 upscaled to 1366x768 is worse than playing 720p X360 games on 1080i CRTs.

...tell it to Bill. Its the kiosk set for the 360. And was highly recommended at avs.

 

[Amadeus]

does anybody know - how does a 720P-signal look upscaled to a 1080P-display?

 

[Shogmaster]

...tell it to Bill. Its the kiosk set for the 360.

I know, and I went into my tirade over this at E3.

And was highly recommended at avs.

avs is BIG place, with many many seperate forums. Not all of them are created equally.

does anybody know - how does a 720P-signal look upscaled to a 1080P-display?

It's a 1.5x interpolation. Fairly dithered. It's much like watching 480p source on a 720p set.

 

[Amadeus]

It's a 1.5x interpolation. Fairly dithered. It's much like watching 480p source on a 720p set.

oh, that doesn't sound too good 'cause i think that nexgen-games will be optimized to 720P :-/

 

[Shogmaster]

oh, that doesn't sound too good 'cause i think that nexgen-games will be optimized to 720P :-/

That's why I've been saying for months that you shouldn't sink money into 1080p sets just so you can be stuck with dithered 720p games for the next 5 years.

 

[Propagandhim]

I think one of us needs to sit back. Grab a Dr. Pepper. Look out the window..then look back at the computer screen and say, "I'm arguing about a television set".

 

[Amadeus]

yep, but the only native 720P-sets you can get in europe are DLP(RPTVs) and they are nothing compared to the picture-quality of LCoS.

HD-ready plasmas and lcds always have that 1366x768 native resolution or at best 1280x768... :-/

 

[Lord Error]

SAY NO TO INTERPOLATION!!!

That's another thing. Most LCD and Plasma sets do this f'n thing, and most don't have *actual* 1280x720 resolution but something close to it, larger or smaller.

Besides that Samsung set just doesn't have that great picture quality. It looked kinda meh next to new Sony and Sharp LCDs when I last saw them in the store playing some DVD.

Accoding to CNET, the newer Superfine pitch is 1400x900ish

Yes, I know, CNET and some other sources say so, but Sony never publically revealed the pitch size on these TVs. My number is coming from some guy at AVS who went into great detail trying to justify it, saying that he got the pitch size from someone in Sony. The thing with CRTs is that they don't have just one way to measure the resolution. There's pitch size, there's phosphorus triad size, triads overlap somewhat, only two elements from a triad can form a pixel etc.etc. Also, everyone at AVS seem to agree that the vertical res of superfine pitch tube is the same as their 'regular' HDTV tube (around 630-650 pixels) SFP still has higher resolution than any other CRT, just possibly not as much as people often think.

I can still see flicker though. Much less than other sets I'm sure, but it's noticeable.

I think the screen size is also a parameter. You'll probably see it more on a 34" set than on the smaller ones.

Yep. There's been many raging threads about this issue at avs for a while. But then again the Princeton's much vanted 3.0HD was just a dirty old shadow mask set that can't hold a candle to Sony Aperture Grille's color stability and detail. But I'd still much arther have a 720p shadow mask CRT than a 1080i aperture grille CRT for my 720p gaming.

I see your point, but I can't say I agree. I actually bought 30HS420, after a lot of research and budget considerations - I should be getting it today, so I'll put it through some loops.

I think one of us needs to sit back. Grab a Dr. Pepper. Look out the window..then look back at the computer screen and say, "I'm arguing about a television set".

These things are expensive man, and you're stuck with them for years. Maybe you're rich enough to buy a new HDTV whenever your heart desires, but I'd much rather see people's comments and arguing and figure out what's best for me and possibly help others.

 

[Shogmaster]

I think one of us needs to sit back. Grab a Dr. Pepper. Look out the window..then look back at the computer screen and say, "I'm arguing about a television set".

WELCOME TO GAF!!!!! :lol :lol :lol

 

[dark10x]

I see your point, but I can't say I agree. I actually bought 30HS420, after a lot of research and budget considerations - I should be getting it today, so I'll put it through some loops.

Geez, we sure think alike. First the Toshiba, now this. That's from the same series as my current set.

 

[Lord Error]

Geez, we sure think alike. First the Toshiba, now this. That's from the same series as my current set.

Haha, really?! I thought you have XS955, or XBR960.

It sucks that 30XS955 is not even sold in Canada, I'd be seriously tempted to get that one instead. But maybe it's better this way. I couldn't see much of a difference in DVD playback picture quality between 30HS420 and 34XS955, but the price difference was very big.

But yeah, when I saw LOTR playing on that 30HS, then looked at some new LCD that was nearby, I couldn't help thinking, "OK, this is ridiculous - this CRT does have better picture quality than that LCD, and is 4x cheaper". Is the slimness and case design worth it? I don't think so.