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Aloy is the single biggest problem with the Horizon franchise to me

GymWolf

Member
The game's visuals, gameplay, and the fact that you're fighting robot goddamn dinosaurs is kinda at odds with that assessment. You don't normally create a magical fantasy land full of fun and adventure and then try to wrap it around a dreary, humorless story like The Road. Not unless there's some thematic subtext behind it and the last I checked the authors of this game didn't intend to dethrone Spec Ops: The Line as the biggest video game "fuck you" to the player by subverting your expectations and punching you in the gut with some fourth wall-breaking revelation.

Yes, the game is layered with a very heavy handed eco-theme but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to have some moments of levity to make it more easily digestible for the audience. It also doesn't excuse the main character from having an endearing personality that would help to form an even stronger emotional connection with the story. Just because they have a specific goal that they have to work towards and they're on the clock doesn't mean they cannot be relatable. John McClane was a relatable guy, and he had only one night to save his wife and kill the bad guys!
Robodinos have their own explanation in the lore, and they were caused by a bleak event basically, i can forgive a small change in the tone to give me super interesting enemies to fight, but having a funny, overly quippy, drama queen in a context like the world of horizon would be way out of tone.

John mclane doesn't have a fraction of the stress that aloy has, cmon, saving the world is a much heavier load to handle, and he is not the only cop in town, she is literally the only one wjo can enter all the structures because she is a clone of sobek, she is the only one who knows how fucked the world is if she doesn't fix it, you can really gave her hard times for how she act.

She could be better written but i understand what guerrilla was trying to achieve, they just don't have great writers for characters.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Robodinos have their own explanation in the lore, and they were caused by a bleak event basically, i can forgive a small change in the tone to give me super interesting enemies to fight, but having a funny, overly quippy, drama queen in a context like the world of horizon would be way out of tone.

John mclane doesn't have a fraction of the stress that aloy has, cmon, saving the world is a much heavier load to handle, and he is not the only cop in town, she is literally the only one wjo can enter all the structures because she is a clone of sobek, she is the only one who knows how fucked the world is if she doesn't fix it, you can really gave her hard times for how she act.

She could be better written but i understand what guerrilla was trying to achieve, they just don't have great writers for characters.
Again, having an eco-theme doesn't mean you can't have moments of levity or more charismatic hero. No one said she'd have to be an obnoxious ditz either. There are plenty examples in fiction of tough, capable, smart, and driven heroines that also feel like flesh and blood people with relatable personalities.
 
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GymWolf

Member
Again, having an eco-theme doesn't mean you can't have moments of levity or more charismatic hero. No one said she'd have to be an obnoxious ditz either. There are plenty examples in fiction of tough, capable, smart, and driven heroines that also feel like flesh and blood people with relatable personalities.
She is relatable to me because i understand how she grew up and how hard her mission is, there are also a lot of examples in fiction of stoic characters that takes shit from no one and have barely any humor, she is just not as well written.
 

Hunnybun

Banned
Robodinos have their own explanation in the lore, and they were caused by a bleak event basically, i can forgive a small change in the tone to give me super interesting enemies to fight, but having a funny, overly quippy, drama queen in a context like the world of horizon would be way out of tone.

John mclane doesn't have a fraction of the stress that aloy has, cmon, saving the world is a much heavier load to handle, and he is not the only cop in town, she is literally the only one wjo can enter all the structures because she is a clone of sobek, she is the only one who knows how fucked the world is if she doesn't fix it, you can really gave her hard times for how she act.

She could be better written but i understand what guerrilla was trying to achieve, they just don't have great writers for characters.

Come off it, the tone of Horizon isn't bleak or grave. High stakes don't necessarily imply somberness.

Half the Bond movies are essentially about saving the world, and they're just fun action flicks.

Or Uncharted 2, say? Highest possible stakes, canpest and silliest tone possible.

You can't have big shiny robot dinosaurs and a serious, bleak tone. One or the other, not both.
 

GymWolf

Member
Come off it, the tone of Horizon isn't bleak or grave. High stakes don't necessarily imply somberness.

Half the Bond movies are essentially about saving the world, and they're just fun action flicks.

Or Uncharted 2, say? Highest possible stakes, canpest and silliest tone possible.

You can't have big shiny robot dinosaurs and a serious, bleak tone. One or the other, not both.
Agree to disagree, the tone is pretty bleak while not being tlou 2 level of bleak because colors are more vivid and there is no super gorey violence, and you can have robodinos if you have a good explanation in the lore (and there is one that a lot of people didn't even pay attention to).

Guerilla wanted to tell a semi-serious story, if you want campiness in your scifi there are a lot of products for you, not every opera need humor or being light hearted.
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
She is relatable to me because i understand how she grew up and how hard her mission is, there are also a lot of examples in fiction of stoic characters that takes shit from no one and have barely any humor, she is just not as well written.
I mean, sure, humor is just one way to make your hero relatable, but not the only one. I'm glad that you find her endearing but I just don't think she's a very well written character either.
 

GymWolf

Member
I mean, sure, humor is just one way to make your hero relatable, but not the only one. I'm glad that you find her endearing but I just don't think she's a very well written character either.
I'm not sure if i find her endearing or anything and like i said i don't find her particularly well written, but i also don't hate her like many do because i understand the context of the story and i don't need every character to be a drama queen buffon.
 
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Hunnybun

Banned
Agree to disagree, the tone is pretty bleak while not being tlou 2 level of bleak because colors are more vivid and there is no super gorey violence, and you can have robodinos if you have a good explanation in the lore (and there is one that a lot of people didn't even pay attention to).

Guerilla wanted to tell a semi-serious story, if you want campiness in your scifi there are a lot of products for you, not every opera need humor or being light hearted.

It's not black and white, obviously, but each choice like that leaves a big impression on tone. Overall, Horizon is a grand, vibrant (literally extremely colourful), over the top fantasy setting.

If you compare it to something like Death Stranding then you'll see what I mean. Very bleak setting, despite a few campy elements.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
I'm not sure if i find her endearing or anything and like i said i don't find her particularly well written, but i also don't hate her like many do because i understand the context of the story and i don't need every character to be a drama queen buffo.
My memory can be vague but didn't she got over that particular arc by the end of the first game? I mean, by the time the second game starts, everyone is already treating her like some sort of Jesus figure in her own society so I don't think that this internal conflict would hold much water by that point.
 
I... think the first part of the game is about how she gets things very wrong while trying to do it all by herself? It's been a year, I might remember some things wrong.

I just finished up the first game, I don't think I saw much of that. Maybe at the beginning when she is younger and being taught by Rost, where she shows some impetuousness, but the game doesn't dwell on this once the main story picks up pace. In all the sidequests, she's absolutely the savior, gives the best advice, solves all the problems.

In the main quest, she doesn't really have an arc other than learning more about who she is and the world. By the end, she rallies some allies that she inspired along the way to defeat the bad guy.

She's basically your typical videogame wish fulfillment protagonist, which I didn't really mind at all. I cared more discovering secrets of the world and the lore of HZD.
 

GymWolf

Member
My memory can be vague but didn't she got over that particular arc by the end of the first game? I mean, by the time the second game starts, everyone is already treating her like some sort of Jesus figure in her own society so I don't think that this internal conflict would hold much water by that point.
But she still has no much people skills because she grew up alone with rost while hating tribes stuff and trying to save the world doesn't do much for you social skills.

And she doesn't have a moment of relax to improve or to really pass some times with these characters, at the start of fw she is pretty desperate and in a rush of finding a clue on gaia location, the girl is the literal definition of "she can't catch a breath".

It's not hard to understand why she is a frigid bitch most of the times, i get why people don't like the final result but there is a meaning behind how she act and guerrilla probably didn't know how to make her more relatable for the average male gamer (since women seems to like her)
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
But she still has no much people skills because she grew up alone with rost while hating tribes stuff and trying to save the world doesn't do much for you social skills.

And she doesn't have a moment of relax to improve or to really pass some times with these characters, at the start of fw she is pretty desperate and in a rush of finding a clue on gaia location, the girl is the literal definition of "she can't catch a breath".

It's not hard to understand why she is a frigid bitch most of the times, i get why people don't like the final result but there is a meaning behind how she act and guerrilla probably didn't know how to make her more relatable for the average male gamer (since women seems to like her)
Idk, not saying that you don't have a point with any of this but it would be a really strange way of writing the main hero if that's what they were going for. Usually I like my fantasy stories to be driven by someone that I like, instead of rolling my eyes every time she opens her mouth.
 

GymWolf

Member
It's not black and white, obviously, but each choice like that leaves a big impression on tone. Overall, Horizon is a grand, vibrant (literally extremely colourful), over the top fantasy setting.

If you compare it to something like Death Stranding then you'll see what I mean. Very bleak setting, despite a few campy elements.
The setting is luxurious and fantasy, but the whole old days story is bleak as fuck, like very bleak, billions of people send to the meatgrinder with a huge lie, robot eating corpses, etc. And even the tribe stuff is pretty bleak with all the sacrifices to the sun god and shit.

Death stranding tone was all over the place, way more than horizon, shit was unintentional comedy gold for all the wrong reasons and the writing was just a ball of cringe and fart sniffing.
 

GymWolf

Member
Idk, not saying that you don't have a point with any of this but it would be a really strange way of writing the main hero if that's what they were going for. Usually I like my fantasy stories to be driven by someone that I like, instead of rolling my eyes every time she opens her mouth.
I'm gonna tell you a secret, milions of people probably enjoyed aloy's character and we are just nerd over-analizing shit on a forum.

I enjoyed her character for what they tried to do with her (like i said multiple times, her dunking on religious zealots and tech ignorants is something i loved about her), she is not a great character by all means but i still kinda enjoyed her (absolutely loving the first game surely helped)
 
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Hunnybun

Banned
The setting is luxurious and fantasy, but the whole old days story is bleak as fuck, like very bleak, billions of people send to the meatgrinder with a huge lie, robot eating corpses, etc. And even the tribe stuff is pretty bleak with all the sacrifices to the sun god and shit.

Death stranding tone was all over the place, way more than horizon, shit was unintentional comedy gold for all the wrong reasons and the writing was just a ball of cringe and fart sniffing.

Lol at this point I'm thinking you just don't actually understand what 'bleak' means. Search Google for bleak images and see what comes up.
 

GymWolf

Member
Lol at this point I'm thinking you just don't actually understand what 'bleak' means. Search Google for bleak images and see what comes up.
And i'm thinking that you only associate the word bleak with muted colors... because the old days story is really bleak unless you forgot or didn't payed enough attention to the plot.

Like, what do you want more bleak than war robots eating the whole planet, majority of the population being send to die in an unwinnable war with a huge lie that gaves them a false hope just to buy some time for a plan that is not gonna even save anyone except future generations, the game has zero humor when it comes to explaining the old days story, it is as bleak as it comes.

In what fucking way is the world of death stranding where people still survived and had fucking ups men bringing the goods like a damn post apocalyptic amazon is more bleak than a whole terraformed planet infested by war robots?
 
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Humdinger

Gold Member
She doesn't have much time to save the entire planet and she is the only one who can do it and the only one who understand the gravity of the situation, her not taking shit from no one and being bitchy (after she grow up as an outcast hated by his own tribe) is kinda realistic if you ask me.

It would be absolutely out of tone if she was super happy or nice with everyone, she is the only one with knowpedge in a world full of religious zealots, majority of people would act like her in the same situation, let's be real, people forget that she is trying to save the entire world and the pressure must be unbereable, context is important on why she act the way she act.

Are people mad because kratos grew up as a spartan and he is a bitch and mad with fucking everyone? No because he is a man and not a woman...

The problem is, she wasn't that way in the first game. She wasn't bitchy. She wasn't impatient with people trying to help. She wasn't insistent on doing everything by herself. In the first game, she did a lot solo because she had to -- but when allies offered help/support, she welcomed it. I could point to numerous examples, but I probably don't need to go into detail.

In the second game, that changed. There was a very noticeable shift in her personality. That is why so many people remarked on how unlikeable Aloy was in the second game. You didn't hear people complaining that Aloy was an unlikeable cunt in the first game, only that she was a "Mary Sue."

So, I don't think people are reacting this was because she's a "strong" female character. They are accurately perceiving that the writers took a likeable, sympathetic heroine and turned her into an impatient loner who "don't need no help from nobody," including old friends. For people like me who actually liked Aloy in the first game, it was a jarring shift.

p.s. I should point out, for those who haven't played it, that her personality does warm up about halfway through.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
When I first approached Forbidden West, it was with a preconceived notion that it's gonna be just more of the same stuff that the first game already had to offer, and that there was very little that it improved upon compared to its predecessor. Now, to give credit where its due, the first game had an extremely intriguing lore and uncovering it throughout the campaign was probably the most engaging thing about the game. The thing that let it down, however, was an extremely bland protagonist that I never managed to connect with.

It's important to understand that a game like this lives or dies on whether you will be able to connect with the main character because this is the person that will be your guide through this strange world and she will serve as a conduit for your emotional investment in the story. If you don't give a shit about the main character because she's as lively and engaging as a brick wall, and her emotional range makes me wish that I was watching Brie Larson as Captain Marvel, then you might as well be watching paint dry on a winter day. And this unfortunately spoils every other character surrounding your protagonist because every interaction that she has throughout the game is just so flat an awkward that it's like watching a giraffe trying to fit in with a pack of sheep.

She really is the focal point of all the problems I have with this franchise because what's interesting about Forbidden West is that the writers managed to vastly improve upon the characters in the game, except for Aloy. She's pretty much the same po-faced Mary Sue with a single-minded determination to save the world as she was in the last game, and she's basically represents this tired trope of a strong female character that can do anything she wants and she has no flaws or desires whatsoever. There's literally nothing about her that would be even remotely interesting. They even had to bring another clone of hers on board in order to introduce some much-needed character drama because Aloy herself is so perfect that there was no internal conflict that she could overcome and grow as a character. I was way more invested in the events of the game, because - once again - the overarching world-ending conflict and lore were the main driving force behind the plot, and they significantly grew in scope and stakes.

And it's a really big shame to have such a bland protagonist because this is a franchise that has all the potential in the world to be one of the most memorable ones that Sony produced in the last two generations. The game is chock-full of memorable missions and set pieces, and the secondary characters were all pretty interesting for the most part. The gameplay, environmental storytelling, and level design were all improved significantly. The map in Forbidden West is a fascinating world to explore, and the refined combat coupled with new enemy designs made it so that I was rarely bored while roaming the map and completing random side missions. The variety of scenery and vastly increased level of detail in the environments made the sandbox much more fun and engaging. The addition of the Sunwing was also great, and being able to lift off the ground and traverse the map from the air was a feeling comparable to that of flying a helicopter in Vice City after spending the entirety of GTA III dreaming about it.

And if that wasn't enough, I recently played through Call of The Mountain and that game only solidified that sentiment for me because it was a chance to immerse myself in this world and look at it through the eyes of a much more lively and relatable character.

It's an aspect that I hope Guerrilla will put more effort into in the future to finally make Aloy more appealing.
I dont think Aloy is perfect with no flaws. I think she's intensely unlikable in the sequel after being endearing and lovely in the first game. She treats everyone around her like crap. Drags along dudes who she clearly flirted with in the last game and then discards them. I have no idea why they turned her into such an unlikable person after all the character development they gave her in the last game. She started off as outcast who then grew to trust others and gained many friends. Her arc in this game is to do the same, why?

ND turned Ellie into a angry depressing asshole, and then GG did the same with Aloy. Loki is also written to be an incredibly unlikeable. I have no idea how devs dont realize that you not only have to connect with your protagonist but also LIKE them. its the most basic fucking tenet of storytelling that all these AAA devs are failing miserably at despite taking 4-5 years to make fancy looking cutscenes to tell a story.
 
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Hunnybun

Banned
And i'm thinking that you only associate the word bleak with muted colors... because the old days story is really bleak unless you forgot or didn't payed enough attention to the plot.

Like, what do you want more bleak than war robots eating the whole planet, majority of the population being send to die in an unwinnable war with a huge lie that gaves them a false hope just to buy some time for a plan that is not gonna even save anyone except future generations?

In what fucking way is the world of death stranding where people still survived and had fucking ups men bringing the goods like a damn post apocalyptic amazon is more bleak than a whole terraformed planet infested by war robots?

We're talking about TONE here, remember. And all the atrocious things in Horizon are only ever referred to, never seen, and happened literally thousands of years in the past. They're completely remote. They don't pervade the tone of the game as it's actually experienced.

I've never even played Death Stranding and I can still sense the bleak tone just by looking at it and seeing a few trailers. That's the essence of *tone*, as distinct from *content*.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
I dont think Aloy is perfect with no flaws. I think she's intensly unlikable in the sequel after being endearing and lovely in the first game. She treats everyone around her like crap. Drags along dudes who she clearly flirted with in the last game and then discards them. I have no idea why they turned her into a cunt after all the character development they gave her in the last game. She started off as outcast who then grew to trust others and gained many friends. Her arc in this game is to do the same, why?

ND turned Ellie into a cunt, and then GG did the same with Aloy. Loki is also written to be an incredibly unlikeable cunt. I have no idea how devs dont realize that you not only have to connect with your protagonist but also LIKE them. its the most basic fucking tenet of storytelling that all these AAA devs are failing miserably at despite taking 4-5 years to make fancy looking cutscenes to tell a story.
Idk, I didn't get that strong of an impression about her being such an abrasive character or whatever. She was just kinda boring and obsessively focused on her mission, like someone with a savior complex. And the game tried to present it as her just being oh so noble and benevolent that she will literally sacrifice herself, her wellbeing, and any wants or needs, because she's the only one who can save the world and there's literally no point in anyone else getting involved because they'd be only risking their lives and she doesn't want that. Because she's just that great.
 
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GymWolf

Member
The problem is, she wasn't that way in the first game. She wasn't bitchy. She wasn't impatient with people trying to help (including people who'd been close allies in the first game). She wasn't insistent on doing everything by herself. In the first game, she did a lot solo because she had to -- but when allies offered help/support, she welcomed it. I could point to numerous examples, but I probably don't need to go into detail.

In the second game, that changed. There was a very noticeable shift in her personality. That is why so many people remarked on how unlikeable Aloy was in the second game. You didn't hear many people saying that in the first game (just that she was a "Mary Sue").

I don't think people are reacting this was because she's a "strong" female character, and they're being sexist. They are accurately perceiving that the writers took a likeable, sympathetic heroine and turned her into an impatient loner who "don't need no help from nobody," including old friends. For people (like me) who actually liked Aloy in the first game, it was a jarring shift.
People hated her in the first game aswell and they made her a bit more kind and smiley compared to the first game as a response to the critics.

I think she was even worse in the first game tbh.

I have no fucking idea how you people think that this aloy is worse or more bitchy than the first game:


 

Vick

Member
And i'm thinking that you only associate the word bleak with muted colors... because the old days story is really bleak unless you forgot or didn't payed enough attention to the plot.

Like, what do you want more bleak than war robots eating the whole planet, majority of the population being send to die in an unwinnable war with a huge lie that gaves them a false hope just to buy some time for a plan that is not gonna even save anyone except future generations?

In what fucking way is the world of death stranding where people still survived and had fucking ups men bringing the goods like a damn post apocalyptic amazon is more bleak than a whole terraformed planet infested by war robots?
That sense of dread is actually unmatched in gaming post-apocalyptic settings, and so expertly juxtaposed to the beauty of nature reclaiming all of it and humanity naive vision of how all came to be.

But as usually happens, the most important subtle things are lost when you give perle ai porci.

Why are you quoting me tho?
Cause I'm agreeing with you correctly describing Horizon's bleakness.
 
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GymWolf

Member
O
We're talking about TONE here, remember. And all the atrocious things in Horizon are only ever referred to, never seen, and happened literally thousands of years in the past. They're completely remote. They don't pervade the tone of the game as it's actually experienced.

I've never even played Death Stranding and I can still sense the bleak tone just by looking at it and seeing a few trailers. That's the essence of *tone*, as distinct from *content*.
The tone is pretty bleak when you go down in the man made structures from the past and you read and listen all the people being desperate for the end of the world, it's a bit superficial to only judge a tone from how vivid the colors of the world are if you ask me.

The writing in ds is so cringe that even the most serious stuff is undermined by that, at least horizon is not super cringe (and it has fucking dinobots in it).
 

GymWolf

Member
That sense of dread is actually unmatched in gaming post-apocalyptic settings, and so expertly juxtaposed to the beauty of nature reclaiming all of it and humanity naive vision of how all came to be.

But as usually happens, the most important subtle things are lost when you give perle ai porci.
Why are you quoting me tho?:lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 

Hunnybun

Banned
O

The tone is pretty bleak when you go down in the man made structures from the past and you read and listen all the people being desperate for the end of the world, it's a bit superficial to only judge a tone from how vivid the colors of the world are if you ask me.

The writing in ds is so cringe that even the most serious stuff is undermined by that, at least horizon is not super cringe (and it has fucking dinobots in it).

I agree about about the old structures, they definitely convey a sense of desperation and sadness. Generally the tone is much more bombastic, though.

And I don't think it's a matter of superficiality or not. That's just the definition of tone as opposed to the actual content.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
I finished both games and I must agree with the OP.

Alloy as a character is by far the worst part of the Horizon series. Alloy is practically a robot programmed to save the world and look at everything else with contempt. All personal relationships are a bother to Alloy, and nothing else matters to her other than sAvInG tHe wOrLd.
I mean if everything and everyone bothers Alloy so much, why the hell is she even saving the world? Oh because the writers keep telling us how perfect she is, I forgot about that.

But the most unrealistic part among all of this is why the hell do the NPCs even like Aloy? There's nothing to like. She can barely hold a conversation, share her likes and dislikes or even manage to stay with people for longer than 30 second conversations. Why would anyone ever keep going after her?

I thought the second game would bring some kind of fall to Aloy that would make her understand she can't do everything alone. I was hoping for some event that would make her regret dearly not taking all the help she's constantly being offered, instead of lying to her supposed friends about letting them help just to running away at the first opportunity. I thought there would be a moment where she says "oh fuck I'm going to die and I've been doing this all wrong.. why am I here all alone? That was so stupid, I was so stupid!".

Instead it's like she eventually just gives the "friends" the privilege of helping her, as if it was yet another bothersome favor she's giving them. It's like the writers just had to make her uninteresting from beginning to end.
 

omegasc

Member
I just finished up the first game, I don't think I saw much of that. Maybe at the beginning when she is younger and being taught by Rost, where she shows some impetuousness, but the game doesn't dwell on this once the main story picks up pace. In all the sidequests, she's absolutely the savior, gives the best advice, solves all the problems.

In the main quest, she doesn't really have an arc other than learning more about who she is and the world. By the end, she rallies some allies that she inspired along the way to defeat the bad guy.

She's basically your typical videogame wish fulfillment protagonist, which I didn't really mind at all. I cared more discovering secrets of the world and the lore of HZD.
I meant first part of the second game, in that post. The first game, Zero Dawn is all about her self-discovery journey, yes.
I guess I don't mind and that's it, but I can see how it can be frustrating for others.
 

Dr. Claus

Banned
I like the game, but I absolutely agree with you. 100%

If you like the game, I am very glad! Hope you continue to enjoy it and its numerous sequels/spinoffs. There is a lot to love about Horizon - but there are also clear issues with writing in Guerilla Games titles. It was less egregious back with Killzone as it was an FPS and story isn't really the main focal point in most FPS military games.

Here though, Aloy is such an obvious problem. If anything, they should have allowed us to create our own character and be more of a third person skyrim like game.
 
People hated her in the first game aswell and they made her a bit more kind and smiley compared to the first game as a response to the critics.

I think she was even worse in the first game tbh.

I have no fucking idea how you people think that this aloy is worse or more bitchy than the first game:



Aloy always comes across like the “good guy” act is only that, an act, and deep down she doesn’t give a shit about the people she talks to. The reason why it’s worse in FW because here she tries to be the good guy more often but completely fails to portrait that she’s actually serious about it, which makes it even more infuriating.
 

BadBurger

Banned
I agree that the writers made her too shallow, aloof, and unconflicted.

Of all of the many characters I have greatly enjoyed from the various PlayStation first-party games she's easily the only one I'd ever accuse of being boring. She makes a largely cliche character like Abigail "Fetch" Walker (inFAMOUS: Second Son) look downright Shakespearean in comparison.
 

GymWolf

Member
Aloy always comes across like the “good guy” act is only that, an act, and deep down she doesn’t give a shit about the people she talks to. The reason why it’s worse in FW because here she tries to be the good guy more often but completely fails to portrait that she’s actually serious about it, which makes it even more infuriating.
I mean...that's just an interpretation.

But even if it is partially true, we already established that she is stoic and only really care about saving the world and she is super focused about that, i would probably not care about the petty little problems of people if i had the same weight on my shoulders.

I can't stress enough the fact that she knows that she was created by gaia with the only intent of saving the world and she is the only one who can physically enter the zero dawn structures, the pressure is probably unbereable.

But like i said, that's your interpretation, to my eyes, she is honest enough with her closest allies, you even have dedicated missions where she help them.

P.s. since people made the comparison with geralt, he looks like he doesn't give a shit about the people he help (if asking money wasn't a dead giveaway already), way more than aloy and her supposed act, he only care when he can fuck something or when someone has info for him, but somehow he is a good, relatable guy...
 
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GymWolf

Member
Funny how all the people who are desperate to show/prove Aloy is a great character are the hardcore Playstation Warriors. Only a handful of actual xbox warriors in this thread, the rest are just normal gamers calling out shitty writing for what it is.
I sincerely hope you are not talking about me:lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 

GymWolf

Member
the game needs stronger villains character wise, i feel like all of the good/bad character are not worth remembering after you meet them.
Yeah, sylens was more interesting as a shady double crossing character than as an ally, but the villains in 2 were pretty much terrible, and nemesis just sound forced and stupid.

They really shat the bed villains wise in fw.

Hades was decent at best.

They did a great job on making me hate ted faro tho, dude was a slimy turd of a man.
 
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SeraphJan

Member
I'd love to see some actual stats on this. To me the idea that gaming is now predominantly female seems like an extraordinary claim.
I'm not saying its predominantly female, but its increased to the point that many publisher do care, I suspect they internally do have accurate and sophisticated metric
 

Tomeru

Member
So that's how it's gonna be, huh? My enduring legacy will be a series of award-winning NeoGAF threads where I'm being a pretentious snob and endlessly ramble about playstation games.

Maybe I should start a youtube channel after all...

By like minded individuals, I'm sure. Make that channel happen!
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
People hated her in the first game aswell and they made her a bit more kind and smiley compared to the first game as a response to the critics.

I think she was even worse in the first game tbh.

I have no fucking idea how you people think that this aloy is worse or more bitchy than the first game:




That's well into the game. As I mentioned, Aloy's character softens as the game continues. She starts out as an irritated loner, then gradually becomes warmer as the story progresses. When we talk about Aloy being an irritated, annoyed loner ("don't need nobody") who rejects friends and former allies, we are talking about the first part of the game. That's where her "bitchiness" (to use that word as shorthand) is quite clear.

Yes, some people did dislike Aloy in the first game, too, but that was for other reasons -- not because of her "bitchiness." It was mainly because she lacked personality ("Mary Sue"). I was a big fan of the first game and so I read a lot of the HZD threads. I don't remember anyone ever saying they disliked Aloy in the first game because she was a bitch. However, I have heard that hundreds of times about Aloy in the second game.

Again, it was a very clear and obvious shift in her personality. That is why so many people -- especially fans of the first game -- were disappointed by it.
 

GymWolf

Member
That's well into the game. As I mentioned, Aloy's character softens as the game continues. She starts out as an irritated loner, then gradually becomes warmer as the story progresses. When we talk about Aloy being an irritated, annoyed loner ("don't need nobody") who rejects friends and former allies, we are talking about the first part of the game. That's where her "bitchiness" (to use that word as shorthand) is quite clear.

Yes, some people did dislike Aloy in the first game, too, but that was for other reasons -- not because of her "bitchiness." It was mainly because she lacked personality ("Mary Sue"). I was a big fan of the first game and so I read a lot of the HZD threads. I don't remember anyone ever saying they disliked Aloy in the first game because she was a bitch. However, I have heard that hundreds of times about Aloy in the second game.

Again, it was a very clear and obvious shift in her personality. That is why so many people -- especially fans of the first game -- were disappointed by it.

So people who hate her just played the first 10-15 hours of a 50++ hours game? dude read the topic, no one mention her growing into a better character later in the game except the few people who actually don't hate her.

I think people just hate her in general dude, no matter which part of the game you pick.

This is why i said that all this hate is a little uncalled for.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
I'm not saying its predominantly female, but its increased to the point that many publisher do care, I suspect they internally do have accurate and sophisticated metric
I mean, someone was bound to finally realize that there's a whole demographic out there that's hungry for meaningful experiences but for years the market was dominated by male power fantasies. The number of games that are geared towards a more universal audience will only keep growing as time goes on.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Aloy is fine.
It's the safe, lame story that is afraid to get out of disney zone. No romance at all too.
But the biggest problem is overbloat. Too much damage/arrow types. Levels on everything. It's work
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Aloy is fine.
It's the safe, lame story that is afraid to get out of disney zone. No romance at all too.
But the biggest problem is overbloat. Too much damage/arrow types. Levels on everything. It's work
Eh, I must disagree. I usually managed to avoid overpowered enemies and progressed through the game naturally by following the story threads and picking up side missions along the way. The game clearly signposts which areas of the map are over your current experience and gear level, much like many other action RPGs of this type. I don't think it's bloated either because much of the side activities that I did throughout the game were fun and engaging, and even the side missions have taken some CliffsNotes from The Witcher 3's book of game design.

IMO it depends on how much time you're willing to invest in it, but from a purely gameplay perspective, Forbidden West is a-ok in my book. It's a fun game.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
So people who hate her just played the first 10-15 hours of a 50++ hours game? dude read the topic, no one mention her growing into a better character later in the game except the few people who actually don't hate her.

I think people just hate her in general dude, no matter which part of the game you pick.

This is why i said that all this hate is a little uncalled for.

Yup. Surprisingly few people actually completed HZD. Most bailed out quite early.

I realize that the OP did not mention her character arc. In fact, I made a specific post about this, pointing it out, early in the thread. You're holding it against me, that the OP failed to mention it? I don't get why, but if you don't see what I'm saying by now, I guess you are just not open to what I'm trying to communicate. Cheers.
 

Nydius

Member
There’s only one character in HFW I actively dislike, and that’s Space Aloy Beta. Any time I had to deal with her, I hated it. She was like moody Atreus in GoW2018 turned up to 11.

HFW’s writing, overall, suffered from sequelitis and was less interesting than Zero Dawn. This includes all of the characters, the only two who were consistent between games being Erend and Sylens.

Angela Bassett’s talents were criminally underused for Regalla.
 
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