chromhound
Member
People that can't afford an EV will take the Bus/Train/Taxi and you will love it
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They'll be okay. Heavily used and stored reserves for the great war machine.
This isn't C&C, we don't have the Tesla Tanks... yet.
dr_octagon
Banned
I look forward to exciting EV car chases in movies, the brrrr, whrrrrr and zippp of the motors.
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squallheart
Member
Crayon
Member
I said poor people aren't going to be able to afford to keep these things on the road and you tell me there's good money in refurbishing batteries. A Tesla refurb seems to be around $10k? Maybe I'm wrong I just googled it. I'm not seeing how that solves my concern. If you can get a refurbished battery for $3000 or less then maybe. Im not sure how it's done or how much it could come down. And I'll be skeptical of any promises.
...
I cannot wait to see what they charge at our future charging stations. I'ma take a wild guess. Universities and business parks will have rows of beautiful solar shaded charging stations. When you get shooed away from those and you don't own a home, you'll have to go to a Chevron station where the charging is priced 'competitvely' with gas because 'convenience'.
This whole this is so silicon valley.
dr_octagon
Banned
There should be swappable batteries, authorised mechanics and garages to support repairs or fixes.
Even with high reliability, it is locked away and the convenience and cheaper costs of traditional cars is not the same for EVs yet.
It's fine for people who have the money, just buy another car but not everyone else.
Even with high reliability, it is locked away and the convenience and cheaper costs of traditional cars is not the same for EVs yet.
It's fine for people who have the money, just buy another car but not everyone else.
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daffyduck
Member
The unis and business parks will probably not be priced much better, to those that are allowed to use them.
And mind the price of electricity in the first place. Just like gas, any excuse to raise prices. And even slower to lower them (edit: than gas).
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MastaKiiLA
Member
The end goal is to have economies of scale kick in before the shift becomes permanent. This means people finding cheaper and more efficient ways to extend the life of car batteries, or refurbish them. There's no real reason buying a used EV should be any more costly or difficult than buying a used petrol car. The material cost isn't the leading factor in the price consumers pay. Supply and demand should factor in the same as they do now, and you'll find EVs that are at all levels of the consumer scale. There should be offerings for lower, middle, and upper class earners. Anyone who can't afford an EV in 2035, probably can't afford a petrol car now.
I think it's a bit shortsighted to look at the state of the EV market now, and assume that is the kind of situation California is pushing its citizens towards. I think where any sensible legislator will want consumers to end up is in a situation the same or better than what we have now with petrol cars. The infrastructure isn't there yet, but that's why they set a target of 2035. That is plenty of time to get the pieces in place to make this work.
As peak oil continues to loom on the horizon, there is very little economic argument for sticking with gas cars, that isn't focused solely on the near-term. Long-term and sustainable solutions have to be via the EV market.
climate change is a serious threat whether you believe in it or not, but i do agree this won't solve the bigger issues concerned with it. It will help, but USA needs to get off its reliance on personal vehicles anyways and we need to actually start building up our public transit. Not only will it help the environment more, but it will also reduce traffic. It's dumb as hell that the 7million+ city i lived in in China had less traffic than the 400k-ish city I live in Alabama. But at the same time the Mass transit is garbage here in bama. my 15 minute commute would be 1 hour and 30 minutes on transit. It's bloody insane.
Lady Jane
Banned
Infrastructure and new vehicle price for personal EV's isn't the primary issue, it's cost of repair and resell value and that's going to remain an issue in the foreseeable future.
The long-term solution is public EV transportation, not personal vehicles. Gas vehicles are here to stay for decades more at least. There is a possibility that by time gas vehicles are out of the norm, public transportation has caught up. People/families who move from personal gas vehicles to EV public transportation is a winning combo. Currently, personal EV vehicles is not a good route for a citizen to take when that money pit can be avoided all together.
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EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
Ev cars joined gas cars mainstream in the last two decades.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I look forward to exciting EV car chases in movies, the brrrr, whrrrrr and zippp of the motors.
Mikado
Member
The big problem for me is charging time. For the final version, they really need a One In - One Out model:
Make batteries standardized and interchangeable (like AA's, AAA's etc).
When you go to the station you eject your battery for recharging and get one that's already charged.
Sure the station has to store the batteries while charging them: they can use the space where the underground petrol tanks used to be.
I know, I know, this will never happen
Make batteries standardized and interchangeable (like AA's, AAA's etc).
When you go to the station you eject your battery for recharging and get one that's already charged.
Sure the station has to store the batteries while charging them: they can use the space where the underground petrol tanks used to be.
I know, I know, this will never happen
GymWolf
Member
Jesus my sister has an electric car and she always risk to run over old people because it doesn't make a fucking sound...I look forward to exciting EV car chases in movies, the brrrr, whrrrrr and zippp of the motors.
it's not about being stupid, it's about monied interests. everyone has to get paid at every bloody step. it's why it'll never be finished. profit motive rules all here and it doesn't matter how good something will be for this country if it doesn't generate a profit.btw if you don't know california, here's a little picture: We've spent a lot of money over many years trying to build a high speed train from sf to la and have got basically nothing done. The majority of people want to help the environment but we're just too stupid here. Halp.
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dr_octagon
Banned
Amazon are selling 50,000 AA batteries with free shipping.
Maiden Voyage
give me your Prime password, I need to fill up my EV.
Maiden Voyage
give me your Prime password, I need to fill up my EV.
Crayon
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yep.
ahtlas7
Member
Sold June 2019. I disagree with the value assessment, even the dealer knew they were low balling me but they admitted to not knowing what they would get out of it and ultimately they gave me the best offer. Unfortunately I just didn’t have time to find a private buyer.
Last week I sold a 1 year 16k mile Toyota Venza Hybrid to a dealer at the cost of $6k!
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Public transit is a part of the solution bit the real solution is completely redoing America's infrastructure so people aren't forced to take a 1 ton giant metal box everywhere they go.
Look at tokyo, Amsterdam, pretty much most European cities. People actually walk to places, ride bikes, use the damn legs we were given at birth...That's how we save the environment, not dumbass electric vehicles.
Then again, if you live in California that's your fucking fault for choosing the 2nd worst us state to live in
Look at tokyo, Amsterdam, pretty much most European cities. People actually walk to places, ride bikes, use the damn legs we were given at birth...That's how we save the environment, not dumbass electric vehicles.
Then again, if you live in California that's your fucking fault for choosing the 2nd worst us state to live in
Nester99
Member
The new F150 gets 19mpg city and 24 MPG highway,
You can get a f150 v6 that does 22city and 30 highway in 2wd
Engine efficiency in the last 10 years has improved dramatically, better than most 10 year old cars.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
The used car market is much stronger now post COVID than it was in 2019 (although it is starting to soften again). Its an apples to oranges comparison. Honestly, you likely could have done better by about 10-15k. Tesla's hold their values decently well. I suspect you got low balled because were desperate to sell due your time constraints and took the dealer at their word (they have a very good idea how much they can sell your car for). But all-in-all 72% of your MSRP on a 2 year old car sold to a dealership is pretty standard pre-COVID, just low for the car you were trading in:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33935142/tesla-model-3-depreciate-electric-car/
I'm also not sure what to think about your Venza comment. Do you feel that's a good deal? It seems OK, but its not uncommon for people in this market to get more for their used cars than what they paid for originally.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
You think those lifted monster trucks are getting that kind of mileage? Because that was what I was talking about.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Amazon are selling 50,000 AA batteries with free shipping.
I stopped doing Prime when 2-day shipping started taking 5 days.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Another kicker, the state with rolling blackouts wants to do this.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
“The state” huh?
One benefit of the F-150 Lightning is you can power a house with it during blackouts…you know, like the one that happened in Texas not too long ago causing everyone’s pipes to freeze, and hundreds to die from either the cold or carbon monoxide poisoning trying to stay warm…
One benefit of the F-150 Lightning is you can power a house with it during blackouts…you know, like the one that happened in Texas not too long ago causing everyone’s pipes to freeze, and hundreds to die from either the cold or carbon monoxide poisoning trying to stay warm…
The big problem for me is charging time. For the final version, they really need a One In - One Out model:
Make batteries standardized and interchangeable (like AA's, AAA's etc).
When you go to the station you eject your battery for recharging and get one that's already charged.
Sure the station has to store the batteries while charging them: they can use the space where the underground petrol tanks used to be.
I know, I know, this will never happen
This actually sort of exists for EV's- in China and some parts of the EU. Granted it's locked to one specific brand at the moment and takes about 5 minutes best case to swap a battery (I'm not sure if there's any industry interest in wide adoption of NIO's tech).
An earlier version of this tech from what I've seen is fantastic for electric scooters that's all over the place in asia, as the batteries for electric scooters are smaller and could easily be swapped by a user. Urban areas would sometimes have this shelf full of batteries that an end user could swap themselves through a quick swipe of their phones.
DaleinCalgary
Member
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D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Well you can, just half as far and without the charging infrastructure, which is why I still have a 5.7L V8 truck which burned through >$325 of gas last weekend.
But I’m not writing off electric trucks because of the limitations of the first gen or the current day infrastructure. They don’t suit my needs now, but I bet they will soon and I’ll be more than happy to switch.
Also I love that channel
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Toons
Member
Only problem with this is 2035 is too long away.
The climate issue needs to be addressed faster and we can cover more ground.
I mean, me personally, I live on planet earth, so.... that's a pretty good reason to be invested...
The climate issue needs to be addressed faster and we can cover more ground.
I mean, me personally, I live on planet earth, so.... that's a pretty good reason to be invested...
btw if you don't know california, here's a little picture: We've spent a lot of money over many years trying to build a high speed train from sf to la and have got basically nothing done. The majority of people want to help the environment but we're just too stupid here. Halp.
Huge projects spanning long distances like the California High Speed Rail are more of a US problem, not just California. There is a HSR line proposed between Dallas and Houston here in Texas and I expect similar problems. It's very difficult to get these big projects done here.
I'm currently following the process and seeing some major local pushback for some much needed arterial road connections in my area as San Antonio continues to grow to help alleviate traffic. This is off a section of one of the 50 busiest roadways in Texas and it's looking very likely like they will get shutdown by personal interests and this is only maybe 1.5 miles total for 2 major connections to be built.
GeekyDad
Member
DaleinCalgary
Member
This will end badly. If you want people to change to a EV vehicle they need to be good enough for them to want to change.
The charging of vehicles need to be as convenient as filling up a gas vehicle
The range needs to be the same as a gas vehicle
The cost needs to be the same as a gas vehicle
If you don't make a better option it is not an option for most. Those that live in condos or apartments will not have the luxury of a charging station in a garage, and 95% of people will need a 2nd fusebox as most homes run with 200amp. You cannot just plug any full EV in a 12v socket and be happy.
Service for these vehicles are simplified but repairs are defiantly not. Car makers are making them all different and very special training and procedures are needed to be followed to diagnose and repair them.
And California can't even properly power homes never mind vehicles for everyone.
The charging of vehicles need to be as convenient as filling up a gas vehicle
The range needs to be the same as a gas vehicle
The cost needs to be the same as a gas vehicle
If you don't make a better option it is not an option for most. Those that live in condos or apartments will not have the luxury of a charging station in a garage, and 95% of people will need a 2nd fusebox as most homes run with 200amp. You cannot just plug any full EV in a 12v socket and be happy.
Service for these vehicles are simplified but repairs are defiantly not. Car makers are making them all different and very special training and procedures are needed to be followed to diagnose and repair them.
And California can't even properly power homes never mind vehicles for everyone.
spawn
Member
Nevada is closer
TheGrat1
Member
Hard to make a useful hydrogen car that is not a bomb. Even more so than one filled with gasoline.
Look at those prices lol
Tesla Battery Replacement Cost (Model X, S, Y & 3) - KLC
Discover the estimated costs of replacing Tesla EV batteries for Models X, S, 3, and Y. Learn about factors affecting prices!climatebiz.com
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Do you know what you’re talking about? This is a genuine question, because I’m not the most educated on the topic but everything I’ve read states that is a myth.
I collect VHS tapes
Member
fwiw, I think he called you “comrade” because you come off as a commie
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
fwiw, I frankly don't give a shit.
dr_octagon
Banned
Toyota make hydrogen cars, the technology is there but probably more money in EV.
2024 Toyota Mirai | Toyota.com
Experience pure innovation and cleaner power with the all-new 2024 Toyota Mirai. Hydrogen and oxygen combine to generate power to propel us into a future of possibilities.
What??????
Dude, go look at your parents power bill 'cause you CLEARLY aren't paying one.
Energy costs have gone WAAAAYYYY up and it's largely due to fluctuations in oil/natural gas from things like the war in Ukraine.
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/22/energy-prices-surge-as-ukraine-crisis-deepens
https://thefederalist.com/2022/01/24/why-are-energy-prices-everywhere-so-high-democrats/