HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Fix their shit before trying to update. I mean, I’m not understanding what you don’t get. If PSSR is an issue, you don’t then add said issue to your game and put it out.
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Eurogamer "Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora is another PS5 Pro patch that arguably looks worse than the standard PS5 version. What's going on?"
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
I haven't said the opposite, just that there are people who are pointing the finger at the supposed incompetence of the developers and perhaps the main problem is PSSR itself.
Those are 2 different things. Here we are talking about the fact that there are people who are blaming the developers for not knowing how to correctly implement PSSR "because in other games the result is better."
I don't think that people like Massive, Epic, Remedy etc. can fall into the category of incompetent when it comes to making a certain technology work well.
As I said, you can blame a Studio for not evaluating the best decision regarding the patch. But perhaps the option of using the PS5 legacy mode was not an option either, and satisfactory results were not achieved in the eyes of the user who is looking for reasons to understand an investment of €800.
As you say, it's Sony's job to work to resolve PSSR issues and make things easy for developers and Studios. At the end of the day it is for their own interest because they are the ones who are selling the hardware. I don't think the message of "don't use PSSR if it doesn't work for you" is in Sony's best interest.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The issue is NOT with their engine or development pipeline or whatever you want to call it. The issue is with the PSSR tech, especially when it comes to RT elements. That tech is exclusively Sony's domain. Devs do not have access to PSSR code. It's a plugin they use. The best they can do is feed it higher resolutions but PSSR is expensive and eats up most of the 40% GPU performance.
Sony is the one that needs to improve their development pipeline. And maybe train the AI upscaler on games that arent last gen games with no RT elements.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Then. They. Shouldn’t. Try. To. Use. PSSR.
That’s the whole point here. Don’t add it and call foul later.
Edit: I’m not saying it doesn’t need to improve. That’s been the idea form the beginning and what you quoted. But devs are putting out games with it and it didn’t play nice with their tools. At that point, it’s on them, not Sony nor PSSR. Ignore it and try the hardware out in other ways. That doesn’t work? Wait for PSSR to improve.
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tmlDan
Member
its not them, its lazy, shitty devs
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I’m beginning to think that they rushed the PS5 Pro out for before Christmas for the obvious reasons. Either that or some of the developers don’t know what they are doing.
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duck_sauce
Member
You did not get attacked. Someone argued with you.
Stop being a snowflake
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
of course. I just have an issue with you calling it an issue with the developer pipeline.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
You can have that issue. Some engines and/or games connected to those engines could use improvement before implementing brand new tech.
That’s how it works.
Klayzer
Member
Alts everywhere.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not this time. Like I asked you, name one thing that they couldve done to their engine to improve PSSR performance. You cant. Because there is literally nothing they can do other than increase resolution which is something Respawn did with Jedi Survivor and still couldnt eliminate PSSR shimmering.
PSSR shimmering is on Sony to fix. Period.
Lysandros
Member
I am having hard time seeing Sony being exempt of accountability for problematic PSSR implementations. Who else can inforce/mandate better quality standards and refuse the update if it isn't up there yet? They are selling the system to the enthusiast crowd first, those kind of things will cost them sells until they finally get the message and react accordingly. Not that i wish any particular success for a mid-gen system, in my ideal world this concept would be completely shelved entirely to fully focus to unadulterated generations but i am i the very minority on that front.
Horseganador
Member
If the problem was PSSR all games would have problems and that is not the case, blaming technology is absurd, it is a problem that developers have to solve and Sony has to help them with it, if they see that PSSR does not work well with their engine then using the extra power on other things, forcing it in a quick patch is not going to work.
peek
Member
Oh thank god. More and more of what I hear bout these pro "upgrade" patches... the less and less i wana get it.
Like dude, why cant it just be like the ps4 pro where it just uncaps the fps to 60 and call it a day? I just want rock solid 60fps even at the cost of fidelity. Not these weird genai(?) filters they throw in there over the game.
Like dude, why cant it just be like the ps4 pro where it just uncaps the fps to 60 and call it a day? I just want rock solid 60fps even at the cost of fidelity. Not these weird genai(?) filters they throw in there over the game.
Antony1992
Member
Correct. I do not buy crappy hardware
V1LÆM
Gold Member
or both
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Hey Google, find artisan Polish bakery near me
Imtjnotu
Member
The tech has good results in other games...
twilo99
Member
Separate issue.
There was a lot of questions around how well are the devs optimizing games for it, since it needed special attention, similar to the pro.
Another parallel is that they tried to compensate for the weak hardware in there with software (FSR) , which didn’t work all that well since you need the base resolution to be high enough for this to make sense.
The lesson here is that developers are in charge of how well a given console performs, especially when you lean on software as much as the PS5 pro
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
PSSR’s fundamental issues aren’t on the devs and no one said that they were. That is on Sony. Devs needing to improve their code is Game Development 101. Not in just how it pertains to the Pro, but in general. Adding a needs improvement feature to your pipeline and releasing it without optimal results is the issue. That's on the dev. Plenty of examples of games releasing Pro updates without PSSR and not running into these sorts of problems.
twilo99
That last sentence is correct.
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saintjules
Gold Member
How people feel in this thread (1:33)
Gonzito
Gold Member
twilo99
Member
Amazing profit margins tho, which is the more important bit
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The quality control of console manufacturers has gone down the shitter over the last ten years or so. That final QA check done by Sony and MS is nothing but a formality. Or we wouldnt have gotten broken games like AC Unity, Mass Effect Andromeda, and more recently shit like Stalker.
Sony QA shouldve taken one look at the shimmering in games like Silent Hill 2 and refused to release the patch.
Alex said that Nvidia would send their engineers to ensure DLSS implementations were optimized for each game during the early days back when DLSS was done on a game by game basis. Thats what Sony shouldve done.
Luipadre
Gold Member
Vick
Member
Considering Thread is about Avatar and on a 4080 the game is literally night and day compared to how it looks on Pro, as are a mountain of others games.. you should have.
IBuyPower PC's starting to look a bit tempting, eh ?
The wording, the emoji..
Bravo.
But you bough one that runs 30fps below the crappy hardware, with inferior resolution, IQ and RT effects..
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is a failure on DF as much as Sony. Their one job is to review the product on day one. They made a long 2 hour video and failed to accurately summarize the console's shortcomings. Lots of giggles and dumb inside jokes at the expense of a well rounded opinion on the console.
The fact that nearly every single RTGI game is suffering from this shouldve been immediately flagged by DF. it took me 2 games to figure out what was going on. DF had access to all 6. Avatar just released but they had access to Alan Wake, outlaws, jedi survivor, dragon age, silent hill 2 and dragons dogma 2 from day one. 2.5 hour review and they couldnt flag this as an issue?
Now a month on, after the return period has expired, they are slowly covering these problematic games one video at a time. Too little too fucking late for people who forked over $700 after your glowing review.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The cost of 60fps.
Enjoy
We don’t have talented enough devs to deliver 60fps in a playable state. Get rid of it for good on console.
Make Games Look Great Again
Enjoy
We don’t have talented enough devs to deliver 60fps in a playable state. Get rid of it for good on console.
Make Games Look Great Again
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Topher
Identifies as young
No idea. Just saying Sony needs to be involved.
Judge Death
Neo Member
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
The better than dlss thread? Yeah. Just a bit.
Antony1992
Member
No need to spend time to take my previous messages. I have a PS5 and a Series X, and as i said, I play most of the time with Series X.Considering Thread is about Avatar and on a 4080 the game is literally night and day compared to how it looks on Pro, as are a mountain of others games.. you should have.
The wording, the emoji..
Bravo.
But you bough one that runs 30fps below the crappy hardware, with inferior resolution, IQ and RT effects..
Still, the PS5 PRO, for its price, is a scam and a shitty hardware given its performances with so many games.
Just relax, the truth speaks for itself. Probably tools are coming
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Gambit2483
Member
Same. It seems like only a few games are actually taking full advantage of the system. At this point I'm just waiting to see what GTA6 (and any other games) do to take actual advantage of the stronger GPU and A.I. upscaler
Topher
Identifies as young
No need to spend time to take my previous messages. I have a PS5 and a Series X, and as i said, I play most of the time with Series X.
Still, the PS5 PRO, for its price, is a scam and a shitty hardware given its performances with so many games.
Just relax, the truth speaks for itself. Probably tools are coming
That is a bit hyperbolic my man. Upscaling growing pains is nothing new.
Vick
Member
Exactly, meaning 4080 owners likeNo need to spend time to take my previous messages. I have a PS5 and a Series X, and as i said, I play most of the time with Series X.
Still, the PS5 PRO, for its price, is a scam and a shitty hardware given its performances with so many games.
Just relax, the truth speaks for itself. Probably tools are coming
Corporal.Hicks
saying:And on the other side warriors like yourself calling it a "scam" and "shitty hardware" because of issues with an optional, new upscaling algorithm with a number of gamers you can count on one hand.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Ps5 pro waiting for tge tools is not what I ever expected in 2024. But here we are. Straight in the pisser.
As others have said. Devs need to skip it until it is more mature.
As others have said. Devs need to skip it until it is more mature.
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mitch1971
Member
There's a pro, that keeps on calling me
Cutting edge is where it wants to be
but every game I play, I'm becoming afraid
that pssr will once again not make the grade
Maybe tomorrow I'll get a patch that works
Maybe tomorrow a patch that doesn't hurt....
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sony and Microsoft used to be a lot more rigorous with their quality standards in the past according to people in the industry. I wish I could find the threads on reddit and beyond3d, but there were mandatory resolution targets for the Xbox 360 and the QA from them to get licensed was stricter. Nowadays, all they care about is that there aren't glaring security issues in the games and that they don't compromise the OS or crash the system. Otherwise, they provide feedback about performance metrics and whatnot, but they are just suggestions to be considered at the developer's discretion.
Sony could in theory step in and tell devs that patches won't get certified if they don't meet their standards, but it's obvious that they won't. I think one of the big shifts was the indie revolution that caused quality standards to drop down a cliff. These days, you find a ton of shovelware on PS, Xbox, and even Nintendo, chiefly indie titles, whereas in the past, trash like Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing were limited to niche store fronts on PC.
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tkscz
Member
720P? Not even DLSS could pull off 720p upscaled to 4k without many sacrifices to motion quality. The games should at the very least be 1080p at their core.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Sony should've waited another year for the PS5 Pro.
PS5 Pro sales are clearly going to be a fraction of what the PS4 Pro sales were. Same can be said about PSVR2 vs PSVR1.
Sony is really fucking up this generation outside of their base console hardware.
- They could've launched it alongside some of their big 2025 games, creating more demand for it
- They may have been able to bring the price down to something more attractive
- They would've had an extra year to allow PSSR to cook to avoid this whole mess
PS5 Pro sales are clearly going to be a fraction of what the PS4 Pro sales were. Same can be said about PSVR2 vs PSVR1.
Sony is really fucking up this generation outside of their base console hardware.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Darktide isnt using RT on consoles iirc. or specifically RTGI or RTAO. It has baked lighting.
Space Marine 2's PSSR implementation should be great too. The tech works great in games like Demon Souls, Stellar Blade, TLOU2, FF7 Rebirth. All games without RT elements.
Luipadre
Gold Member
Are we sure its not using RTGI on Pro? I played it on PC without RTGI and i remember it looking worse in terms of lighting
kevboard
Member
next year would probably have been too late.
it already took 1 year longer for it to release compared to the PS4 Pro.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I was gonna say huh but then realized that yeah that's correct.
PS4 - PS4 Pro was 2013 to 2016, 3 years.
PS5 - PS5 Pro is 2020 to 2024, 4 years.
kevboard
Member
it seemed longer for the PS4 I think, simply because the entire generation felt more substantial than the current one.
by the time the PS4 Pro released, gen8 already felt really stacked with releases.
gen9 still feels like it barely is a thing, mostly due to the cross gen period being massive this time, and due to the generational jump being smaller than ever.