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Fixing Sony's GaaS Strategy

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I've heard a lot of people push that Sony should bring their classic multiplayer games back if they want to establish GaaS.

Sony has a rich history of multiplayer games, but it's also a complex one.

I don't think these people are entirely wrong, the problem still remains that none of those original teams exists or they're entirely pre-occupied with bigger and better things. Here are the franchise that Sony should probably be looking at and how they could consider bringing them back. One recommendation I would have for Sony those is that all of the games they put out whether they be MP or GaaS should have a single player campaign element, giving the option of people who don't want to play online or or play forever games to still buy in. The more people who buy in the more likely that a GaaS game is successful anyways. This should follow the GTA and Red Dead model rather than the Helldivers model which is inherently risky if the games don't separate themselves from competition and if their competition is F2P.

#1 SOCOM US Navy Seals

This one is a really difficult one, as again the studio just doesn't exist and there isn't an immediately obvious choice for who should make this or would want to make it or if this game could exist to satisfy modern demands and classic fans.

My answer for this one is that they need to create an original studio and recruit for this. Model the game after Rainbow Six Siege and Modern Warfare. With the CoD deal counting down to expiration, this should be their biggest priority anyways and potentially the game with the largest possible ceiling for them.

But again, there is a big question they have to ask themselves. Do you make this a FPS in line with what is in demand now or do you stick with the classic 3rd person view? You're not going to make everyone happy, and being able to switch isn't really an answer. People in first person mode are going to have a huge advantage.

But this is the game I'd put 250+ million dollars on.

#2 Killzone

Killzone is I think the easiest franchise to bring back. You remake the first game's campaign (remake rather than remaster) with modern controls and Guerrilla's graphics. You put this on PS5 and PC and you call it a day. Rinse and repeat for Killzone 2 and 3 or put them altogether as a collection. Keeping the multiplayer going as a live service. Sell the single player games for like 40 or 50 dollars a pop or 70 dollars as a collection and have the multiplayer be F2P or 10 bucks + MTX.

This is a somewhat similar strategy to doing the master chief collection and then halo infinite, but at the end of the day it comes down to execution. The MCC was initially released in poor condition and halo infinite was a bomb out of the gates as well.

#3 Resistance

Complicated by Spider-Man and Wolverine and X-Men, but essentially the same strategy as Killzone. Remake the games' campaign modes and make the multiplayer F2P or 10 bucks plus MTX. I would reach out to WB about buying Rocksteady, make them Insomniac UK, lead by Insomniac's leadership team, and have them take over making single player Spider-Man and other Marvel games, while Insomniac proper makes Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, and other games, which we'll discuss more later.

#4 Warhawk/Starhawk

Either Firesrpite or find a 3rd party studio and have them do a budget remaster of Warhawk and Starhawk. This would be my exception to the campaign mode rule since these games were multiplayer only to begin with. Drop these for like 40 bucks each, doing Starhawk if Warhawk was successful or maybe you combine them as separate modes. There aren't many games like it so it isn't crowded like the hero shooter genre. This is something that can follow a more similar path like Helldivers.

#5 Sunset Overdrive

This is what I'd have Insomniac do instead of Spider-Man. Sunset Overdrive could have been Fortnite before Fortnite. Insomniac has some of the best gameplay in the business. I think you just let them cook and people will come. I'd at least test the market by remastering the game for PS5 and PC, but really building out the online multiplayer would have some potential success.


Notes: It's disappointing that Twisted Metal didn't get off the ground. It strikes me how whoever was working on this couldn't modernize it, yet Nintendo has been able to make Mario Kart fun and engaging for decades. This one doesn't feel like a difficult one to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

Honorable mentions:
  • Destruction Derby (not Destruction All Stars) again as a low budget project.
  • Everybody's Golf/Everybody's Golf VR
  • Jet Moto (again low budget project, doesn't need to be a GaaS, but could be)
  • Wipeout (again low budget project, doesn't need to be a GaaS, but could be)
  • Coolboarders (massive opportunity here given the lack of Coolboarders and SSX on the market right now)
  • Extreme Games (massive opportunity here with the lack of Tony Hawk Pro Skater, maybe a combination with Coolboarders)

The key thing here is that most of these are low budget low risk high reward projects with the exception of SOCOM. None of these gets you in trouble if they fail. None of these are massively expensive projects and they'll all be successful even if no one buys MTX for them in the future.

General themes:
  • Relatively low cost
  • Aligned with PlayStation culture and history
  • Can survive without selling forever
  • If interest is low, it's not the end of the world
  • PC players haven't had an opportunity to play most of these franchises
  • Many of these franchises failed to get lift off because of the state of the PS3 or because their original developer wasn't keeping up with the industry

On a similar note. I'd further delay Marathon and build out a campaign mode and have Firewalk assist in building it, potentially saving *some* of that studio, but helping to get a campaign and the game out earlier. I understand why companies skip doing campaign modes but in this hyper-competitive environment, you have to get people to buy in and that has to include people who don't want to play online at all. Those people still recommend games to their friends and some of their friends might be into online.

I think there are a lot of people who are simply against GaaS but they don't realize that companies can't compete with just single player games or one shot multiplayer games.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
honey badger lol GIF


My fix for their gaas strategy would be to abandon the gaas strategy.
 
Bring back their old IPs that are worth resuscitating( aforementioned Socom,Killzone have built in fan bases instead of betting the farm on an unknown like Concord) and they should have included TLOU Factions as part of Part 3 to give it legs beyond the single player. How Sony was told to pump the brakes on Factions while following Concord to it's disastrous conclusion, I'll never understand.
 

GymWolf

Member
I don’t think it’s worth it to have that many low key GaaS projects

Focus on fewer ones and make them AAA.

Socom or Killzone could work with a next gen coat and genuine effort
They should test the water with kz2 multy.

Like release that for free or like a small sum like 5-10 dollars without working on the graphic or nothing to not spend too much money on it, just make it run at decent res and fps on a ps5, if people are interested you can start a full on remake of kz2, both campaign and multy, even with state of the art graphic.

They could do this with several games to taste the water, make a little investment before going all in on a project.
 
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Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Bring back their old IPs that are worth resuscitating( aforementioned Socom,Killzone have built in fan bases instead of betting the farm on an unknown like Concord) and they should have included TLOU Factions as part of Part 3 to give it legs beyond the single player. How Sony was told to pump the brakes on Factions while following Concord to it's disastrous conclusion, I'll never understand.


The is a common misconception. Bungie gave studios advice. The decisions made at individual studios or what that advice was in not known to us.

The reason you'll never understand is because you're making pretty wide sweeping assumptions about what that advice was or what the response was to that advice.

It's totally possible that Sony will use what they have from Factions as a multiplayer mode in TLOU3 or another game.

It's not like Firewalk could simply scrap what they'd been working on by the time Bungie came along.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
They should test the water with kz2 multy.

Like release that for free or like a small sum like 5-10 dollars without working on the graphic or nothing to not spend too much money on it, just make it run at decent res and fps on a ps5, if people are interested you can start a full on remake of kz2, both campaign and multy, even with state of the art graphic.

They could do this with several games to taste the water, make a little investment before going all in on a project.

They still need to fix the gameplay. The hit detection in the original two games was just trash, somewhat improved in the 2nd game, but still not to modern standards.
 

sainraja

Member
Either Firesrpite or find a 3rd party studio and have them do a budget remaster of Warhawk and Starhawk. This would be my exception to the campaign mode rule since these games were multiplayer only to begin with. Drop these for like 40 bucks each, doing Starhawk if Warhawk was successful or maybe you combine them as separate modes. There aren't many games like it so it isn't crowded like the hero shooter genre. This is something that can follow a more similar path like Helldivers.
Starhawk had a campaign/story mode.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Factions, if executed properly, would've been all they needed. Coulda been the next GTA imo.

I think it would have been a hit if they could have got it out in time for the first game. I think they missed their window and were struggling on how to monetize it without putting all their resources towards it.

They could literally have dropped it as a paid DLC multiplayer mode for TLOUP2 Remastered and still could when they release it on PC. We really have no idea what they'll do with what they've created. No one knew they were going to release No Return until they did.
 

Jaybe

Member
PlayStation should step back and let third parties take all the risk / reward for GaaS, and collect their 30% cut. Maybe put some more effort into ensuring Dentisy and Helldivers 2 have interesting and frequent content updates since they are already invested in this and have a player base.
 

wvnative

Member
Your too focused on the IP itself OP, sure I'd like to see some of that stuff come back, but I think people don't see the forest for the trees.

I think the biggest issue is that these live service games all follow similar trends like hero shooter, looter shooter, etc... and the space is way too crowded.

Sony has the resources and talent to create new and interesting types of live service games, that might actually get people like me on board. But rather than do that, they killed off the last of us and twisted metal, two games that could have stood out, in favor of a fucking overwatch knockoff. They were rightly punished for it.

Some of their IP could do that, such as a modern LBP could offer a vibrant UGC game (which would play well with streaming/social media attention) Socom could be a genuinely gritty and realistic shooter, something that seems completely absent in the market now.

But no, we got fucking Concord. Rather it's old or new IP Sony had the capacity to deliver fresh experiences, and so far they fumbled on that, HARD.
 

tmlDan

Member
I do think you can make a great live service game without utilizing existing IP, hell look at the most popular one's, apart from COD they're all new IP.

The problem with starting GAAS right now is that you have to fight against well established, highly content heavy live service games that have been expanding and improving for years. You have to launch with those already included in your game to convince people to play and STAY, that's the hardest part for so many new GAAS starters
 

HogIsland

Member
Factions, if executed properly, would've been all they needed. Coulda been the next GTA imo.
Assuming the original concept was shared open world like The Division, with Last of Us 2 gameplay, and Last of Us Factions tactical/survival mechanics, it's practically the best game I can imagine. I'm extremely bummed that it was cancelled.

But we totally could've just gotten Last of Us Factions (aka "tacked on multiplayer") 2, and that would still be a very excellent game.

Instead we're getting nothing.
 

Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
I think IP itself matters less than execution. Charging up front for a GaaS game is just stupid, and makes me think they had little faith in long term sustained revenue or just plain did not understand the market.

Also test outside of SIE, otherwise you're just getting used to the smell of your own fart. Wide public beta is massively important. A lot of the negative reactions could have been received and addressed early. This should have had multiple rounds of closed beta in 2023/2024 plus an open one early in summer of this year.

And have the launch actually be an event. Have a tournament made up of teams from the closed beta during launch week, get people excited. Anything to get people excited instead of just sending this out to die at the start of Fall.
 
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GymWolf

Member
They still need to fix the gameplay. The hit detection in the original two games was just trash, somewhat improved in the 2nd game, but still not to modern standards.
They only need to fix the input lag but without erasing the sense of weight that separate kz from stuff like cod or apex.

The gunplay of kz2 as it was already kick 80% of modern shooter in the nuts.

What do you mean with hit detection?
 
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Shubh_C63

Member
As a fairly new console player myself, I don't think SOCOM holds any starpower in this day.

Killzone atleast was a trending name a decade ago but as soon as it feels like a military dude shooting lobby it competes with COD, BF and there is just no winning that war. Exclusive FPS on a console only gonna survive if they have an amazing twist or different genre altogether. Straight up CoD lobbies type deal is a huge gamble Sony won't ever do.
 

Cakeboxer

Member
This is what I'd have Insomniac do instead of Spider-Man. Sunset Overdrive could have been Fortnite before Fortnite. Insomniac has some of the best gameplay in the business. I think you just let them cook and people will come. I'd at least test the market by remastering the game for PS5 and PC, but really building out the online multiplayer would have some potential success.
How is their gameplay among the best or at least anythin special? Spider-Man was literally a Batman copycat amd from Sunset Overdrive i just remember much sliding + jumping, the cringe wannabe cool character and that it sold poorly even before Game Pass and i think it didn't too well later on pc. Spider-Man may be boring and bland, but it was a way better choice for the studio and Sony.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
A really good gritty Socom game would work best. It relates best to modern warfare which is a setting that is universally accepted and still played.

Super dark and violent killzone will have limited appeal. And going after the sci-fi creature thing with resistance won’t resonate well either. The hawk games have too much vehicles in them IMO. And sunset is a definite no.

A good socom or MAG game would do best IMO.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Your too focused on the IP itself OP, sure I'd like to see some of that stuff come back, but I think people don't see the forest for the trees.

I think the biggest issue is that these live service games all follow similar trends like hero shooter, looter shooter, etc... and the space is way too crowded.

Sony has the resources and talent to create new and interesting types of live service games, that might actually get people like me on board. But rather than do that, they killed off the last of us and twisted metal, two games that could have stood out, in favor of a fucking overwatch knockoff. They were rightly punished for it.

Some of their IP could do that, such as a modern LBP could offer a vibrant UGC game (which would play well with streaming/social media attention) Socom could be a genuinely gritty and realistic shooter, something that seems completely absent in the market now.

But no, we got fucking Concord. Rather it's old or new IP Sony had the capacity to deliver fresh experiences, and so far they fumbled on that, HARD.

You clarly didn't read what I wrote, which is fair, since it was a bit long, but I specifically cite bringing in more genres.

Seems like you skimmed.
 
The is a common misconception. Bungie gave studios advice. The decisions made at individual studios or what that advice was in not known to us.

The reason you'll never understand is because you're making pretty wide sweeping assumptions about what that advice was or what the response was to that advice.

It's totally possible that Sony will use what they have from Factions as a multiplayer mode in TLOU3 or another game.
I can only go off the information I read as it was presented at the time. Based on your 'it's entirely possible' you don't seem to be anymore in the know than I am to say how close to or far off the mark my 'assumptions' are. As I said in the beginning of my post, they should probably include Factions in TLOU Part 3 so you in essence regurgitated what I said before the part you highlighted and took issue with.
 
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Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
They only need to fix the input lag but without erasing the sense of weight that separate kz from stuff like cod or apex.

The gunplay of kz2 as it was already kick 80% of modern shooter in the nuts.

What do you mean with hit detection?

It was input lag AND bad hit detection. You would shoot enemies and they'd take no damage, the aiming in the game was largely broken and some enemies turn into bullet sponges as a result.

Killzone needs a ground up remake.

As a fairly new console player myself, I don't think SOCOM holds any starpower in this day.

Killzone atleast was a trending name a decade ago but as soon as it feels like a military dude shooting lobby it competes with COD, BF and there is just no winning that war. Exclusive FPS on a console only gonna survive if they have an amazing twist or different genre altogether. Straight up CoD lobbies type deal is a huge gamble Sony won't ever do.

That's like saying Top Gun Maverick has no starpower in this day. Yet it wildly outperformed the original movie.

You use the old franchise for those who played it or heard of it. It has prestige. The modern elements are what will ultimately sell it.

Look at Prince of Persia on PS2/Xbox. It's very common to bring back old franchises like this, even if they aren't currently in circulation.

How is their gameplay among the best or at least anythin special? Spider-Man was literally a Batman copycat amd from Sunset Overdrive i just remember much sliding + jumping, the cringe wannabe cool character and that it sold poorly even before Game Pass and i think it didn't too well later on pc. Spider-Man may be boring and bland, but it was a way better choice for the studio and Sony.

Insomniac has the most creative weapon choices maybe in gaming history. Their gadgets in Spider-Man help make the game more than a Batman clone. Sunset Overdrive could be more successful with a new coat of paint, expanded multiplayer, and some hype.

I'm sure you think fortnite is boring and bland too, but it's popular.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I can only go off the information I read as it was presented or as I understood it. Based on your 'it's entirely possible' you don't seem to be anymore in the know than I am to say how close to or far off the mark my 'assumptions' are.

Right but the difference between you and me, is I'm not making any sweeping assumptions about what advice was given or whether advice was followed.

Wild that you don't see the difference there.
 
Right but the difference between you and me, is I'm not making any sweeping assumptions about what advice was given or whether advice was followed.

Wild that you don't see the difference there.
Your different perception of the situation doesn't automatically mean my comments are sweeping assumptions. Again, I go off the information that was presented. The articles I read amounted to Bungie advising on the viability of the project, and next thing we know it's canned. We can play patty cake till the cows come home as far as what was said behind the scenes.
 
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Loxus

Member
Just do like they did in the pass.
single-player games with multi-player addon.

Gran Turismo 5/6/7
Uncharted 3/4
TLOU 1
Max Payne 3
Red Dead Redemption 1/2
GTA4/5

Are a few games that are single-player with multi-player added in.

This is the best formula in my opinion, with the multi-player having various micro transactions.
 

GymWolf

Member
It was input lag AND bad hit detection. You would shoot enemies and they'd take no damage, the aiming in the game was largely broken and some enemies turn into bullet sponges as a result.

Killzone needs a ground up remake.



That's like saying Top Gun Maverick has no starpower in this day. Yet it wildly outperformed the original movie.

You use the old franchise for those who played it or heard of it. It has prestige. The modern elements are what will ultimately sell it.

Look at Prince of Persia on PS2/Xbox. It's very common to bring back old franchises like this, even if they aren't currently in circulation.



Insomniac has the most creative weapon choices maybe in gaming history. Their gadgets in Spider-Man help make the game more than a Batman clone. Sunset Overdrive could be more successful with a new coat of paint, expanded multiplayer, and some hype.

I'm sure you think fortnite is boring and bland too, but it's popular.
Yeah i don't remember any of that, but it has been a while.

I do remember enemies sometimes having wrong reaction compared to where they have been shot but no enemy spinges or bad hit detection tbh.
 

sainraja

Member
I do think you can make a great live service game without utilizing existing IP, hell look at the most popular one's, apart from COD they're all new IP.

The problem with starting GAAS right now is that you have to fight against well established, highly content heavy live service games that have been expanding and improving for years. You have to launch with those already included in your game to convince people to play and STAY, that's the hardest part for so many new GAAS starters
Not to mention they have to try to have feature parity (as much as possible) with already established live service games.
-
Sony might be re-evaluating their GaaS strategy but even when they were seriously going for it, they funded 12 of them. So they probably went into it with somewhat realistic expectations just based off of that (meaning some of those 12 games will fail). We might see a few more GaaS games from Sony that don't land but one of them likely will succeed. Before Concord, we got Helldivers and it has been successful. So they found some success already with GaaS.
 
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Cakeboxer

Member
Insomniac has the most creative weapon choices maybe in gaming history. Their gadgets in Spider-Man help make the game more than a Batman clone. Sunset Overdrive could be more successful with a new coat of paint, expanded multiplayer, and some hype.

I'm sure you think fortnite is boring and bland too, but it's popular.
Maybe it's because i only played the 2017 game and the later games had something special and mandatory, but i don't remember any unique gadgets or that you had to use gadgets at all. I spammed that move where he slingshot himself to the enemies and that was pretty much it. What i call creative weapon choices are the arsenals from lets say Shadow Warrior or Blood and here we are talking about mid 90s.

Fortnite is actually a very fun game, i'm just too old to be good at it.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Maybe it's because i only played the 2017 game and the later games had something special and mandatory, but i don't remember any unique gadgets or that you had to use gadgets at all. I spammed that move where he slingshot himself to the enemies and that was pretty much it. What i call creative weapon choices are the arsenals from lets say Shadow Warrior or Blood and here we are talking about mid 90s.

Fortnite is actually a very fun game, i'm just too old to be good at it.

Seems like you played the game wrong. From the skill tree to the gadgets, Insomniac cooked. But they've always cooked when it came to this. Look up videos for every weapon in every Ratchet or Spyro game.
 

kaizenkko

Member
People talk about SOCOM, Killzone and these others games like they are good of something like that. For the love of God, those games are not that good. Sony have stop of making these games because the last ones of each was bad and sells bad. Apparently everyone here forgot Killzone Shadow Fall.

I can agree that those games would perform better than Concord and Fairgame, but that's not a hard mission.
 
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MikeM

Member
They need to ensure that their GAAS games fill a need/gap and not trend chase.

Helldivers 2- great example.
Concord- wish.com valorant/overwatch.

The results speak for themselves.
 

Saber

Gold Member
The smart way to fix GaaS is not going to the GaaS route. Is really that simple.

If you have any interest on GaaS you can aways invest on a sucefull GaaS and make exclusivity deals with them.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
All those games had good multiplayer modes, but a multiplayer mode is not enough. It needs to actually be something that turns into a long-term service. I don't see people signing up to play grimdark Resistance and Killzone for years on end. Warhawk, they would have to succeed where EA has failed multiple times with Battlefield. It's doable, but tough.

Of all those games, I think SOCOM has by far the best chance to turn into a long term, successful service. Especially with Siege being pretty cringe and lolworthy at this point.
 
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Three

Member
once upon a time, there were multiplayer games.
Yeah but a multiplayer game with the intention of 'building a game out' at a later date if it hits is just a live service game without a roadmap or a failed live service game if it doesn't hit.
 

Xyphie

Member
Release early, release often. Find gameplay concepts that are at an incubation stage and release a minimum viable product and go from there. Good example of this is how Riot quickly executed on a professionally-made Auto Chess game with TFT, or how Epic completely pivoted Fortnite into a first free BR game.

Meanwhile you have Sony trying to outrizz their entrenched competitors by hiring an army of animators to do weekly story cinematics for their 6/10 generic game. Probably has months and months of them in the vault which will now never see the light of day. Just completely clueless company.

Seeing how Valve is executing a >100k CCU hero shooter in the same week as Concord which looks like a TF2 mod from 2008 while still being in closed beta shows how badly Sony just doesn't get it.
 
honey badger lol GIF


My fix for their gaas strategy would be to abandon the gaas strategy.

This is my answer.

Fuck contrived strategies. They more times than not fail.

Cultivate studios that submit ideas and pitches. Take the best complete ideas and pitches. If one happens to coincide with Games as a Service quasi scam like FOMO tactics, go for it.

Don't try to get good GAAS. Just try to get good games, period. Maybe one has live service aspects.
 
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TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
This is my answer.

Fuck contrived strategies. They more times than not fail.

Cultivate studios that submit ideas and pitches. Take the best complete ideas and pitches. If one happens to coincide with Games as a Service quasi scam like FOMO tactics, go for it.

Don't try to get good GAAS. Just try to get good games, period. Maybe one has live service aspects.
Agreed mate. Creativity and fun factor should be the first things to take into account when designing a videogame. Looking for ways to get some more extra money can also happen, but those should come later and not be the main focus.
 
Star Hawk was one of my all-time favorites, but I don't think it was ever very popular. I remember playing mostly with a handful of people from third world countries.
 
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