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[StealthGoblin]

Its called artistic integrity bro, no one gives a shit how much money people make off of it, were here to play good games not here so the idiot masses with thier low selfcontrol can empty thier wallet unto the Sony brand.

I see this thrown around a lot.

If we want Sony to keep on making SP games that push the medium on a variety of levels then they need additional revenue streams. It isn't sustainable at the current trajectory. It just isn't.

When a game like Days Gone, which has faults but is very solid and a hit among those who've invested the time, basically almost tanks the studio due to lower than desired commercial success, then you need additional consistent revenue streams to:

a) fund riskier projects
b) ensure that not every decision made is make or break for a studio.

 

[Hudo]

Can they force Bungie to scrap that fucking Marathon extraction shooter shit and have them make a proper new Marathon instead?

They can keep the art direction/visual direction; that looked cool.

 

[RJMacready73]

I see this thrown around a lot.

If we want Sony to keep on making SP games that push the medium on a variety of levels then they need additional revenue streams. It isn't sustainable at the current trajectory. It just isn't.

When a game like Days Gone, which has faults but is very solid and a hit among those who've invested the time, basically almost tanks the studio due to lower than desired commercial success, then you need additional consistent revenue streams to:

a) fund riskier projects
b) ensure that not every decision made is make or break for a studio.

It's why the big Hollywood studios churn out sequel after remake, builds up the piggy bank so they can take risks on others stuff.

AAA game development is a massive time sink, studios devoting almost their entire staff for years with no income to develop a game they don't know is gonna be a hit? That's an insane risk and ya gotta love Sony for taking those risks but the big GAAS games are all cross generation/platform and Sony only does PC/PS5, ya gotta open up to everything

 

[EDMIX]

Its called artistic integrity bro

??? I don't think Mibu's argument is against that....

, no one gives a shit how much money people make off of it, were here to play good games

?? Who the fuck is saying Mibu's point is against good games? Enough play those games that would argue in their opinions they are "good games"

So when you force this fucking "were here to play good games" in a fucking thread about Revenue vs GaaS, its like you don't understand what is being stated as the main topic of the thread.

So I agree largely with what Mibu no ookami and many are saying on here, clearly a market exist for those games.

Artist btw create those games too, gamers also play those games and view them as good games.

I see this thrown around a lot.

If we want Sony to keep on making SP games that push the medium on a variety of levels then they need additional revenue streams. It isn't sustainable at the current trajectory. It just isn't.

Agreed.

Sony has always had a variety of genres and since online gaming became a thing has invested that idea. Look at when they used to have SOE with Ever Quest or their massive support with online games during the PS3 era. Resistance Fall Of Man series, Killzone 2 and 3 having MP, Socom, Warhawk, PS Home, GT Series, LittleBigPlanet etc

Sony during the generations might be known for their epic single player titles, that doesn't mean they ignored online type games, since we've had online, Sony has invested in those ideas as they understand you need to branch out, do new things and see what the market wants.

Sooo.....

EverQuest and didn't stop God Of Wars series during the PS2 era
SingStar and PS Home didn't stop The Last Of Us during the PS3 era
Dreams and Driveclub didn't stop Horizon Zero Dawn during the PS4 era
I doubt any of the GaaS games they are making now is stopping their single player stuff during the PS5 era

So historically, Sony has never actually just did single player ONLY since the entrance of online games. I'd argue how they are trying do this right now makes much more sense then in the past. Getting trusted studios, with deep histories with online titles to freely create makes more sense then getting some of their teams that failed in the past to resurrect some of those concepts from PS3 era or something.

 

[Kadve]

Are MMO's seriously considered GAAS nowadays? Wouldn't WOW count to then?

 

[EDMIX]

Are MMO's seriously considered GAAS nowadays? Wouldn't WOW count to then?

How could it not? The very idea of what the term means is simply an online game....

I don't even know why people are trying to force this term to mean something else to argue. As far as I see it, the thing being talked about is online games....

Some one can call it live service, GaaS, inter tube connected experience for the modern computer goer....the shit is still an online game lol



Same reason an MMO would fail then, is the same reason a GaaS would fail today

Same things that would occur if a MMO is successful like updates, expansions, long term support etc, is the same fucking thing that occurs with GaaS today

The term is simply another word for online game and I've yet to find anyone to give some proper difference.

 

[Bergoglio]

Please don't act like a Era member.

 

[MagnesD3]

I see this thrown around a lot.

If we want Sony to keep on making SP games that push the medium on a variety of levels then they need additional revenue streams. It isn't sustainable at the current trajectory. It just isn't.

When a game like Days Gone, which has faults but is very solid and a hit among those who've invested the time, basically almost tanks the studio due to lower than desired commercial success, then you need additional consistent revenue streams to:

a) fund riskier projects
b) ensure that not every decision made is make or break for a studio.

You give a big corporation a lot of trust, I haven't seen jack out of my PS5 and the future looks grim, what is to stop the company from just doubling down into the money makers and forgetting mostly about the single player games with less "revenue growth potential", if its the goodness of thier heart then people who actually care about gaming are screwed.

The only corporation of the big 3 I trust (a small amount) to deliver is Nintendo since they thankfully have a degree of pride (for now) when it comes to mario and zelda but even that may erode once the old guard dies.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Making gaas games will undoubtedly damage their sp games output. Making popular gaas games a bug success needs alot of resources and the resources aint infinite. I also get it financially but it will also damage their game reputation I think.

They have multiple studios, some with multiple teams.
It'll be fine.

Besides, it's not like they pump out 4-5 sp titles each year. We're lucky if we get 2 major titles a year from Sony and nothing suggests that's going to change, even with more focus on GaaS.

 

[NeonDelta]

still astounded there’s no GAAS Socom

 

[Killjoy-NL]

still astounded there’s no GAAS Socom

Well, they closed Zipper after Socom 4, so I wouldn't even know which of Sony's studios would be a good choice for another Socom.

 

[Neofire]

Sony and Jim Ryan get a lot of hate from pursuing GaaS revenue but I really think that people have no idea how much GaaS generates in revenue compared to a traditional model and traditional AAA storyline games and just how unsustainable it is to be on the outside looking in on this.

Fortnite - 6 billion dollars in 2022
PUBG - 2.5 billion revenue in 2022 (PC, Console, and Mobile)
Roblox - 2.2 billion in 2022
Genshin Impact - 2 billion annually
League of Legends - 1.8 billion in 2022
Warzone - 1.8 billion~
Apex Legends - 2 billion in 3 years
CSGO - 6.7 billion in 10 years
Rainbow Six Siege - 1.12 billion in 4 years

Sony made 27 billion in 2022 in revenue but they aren't retaining much due to the high operating cost

I've said it many times, that I have zero interest in GaaS or even online games, but I think Jim Ryan has correctly understood that Sony needs at least one or two major GaaS titles to bolster operating incomes, otherwise, it's going to fall well behind other publishers. I think they were overly ambitious with the numbers they wanted to introduce, but I also think those numbers were inflated by games like MLB The Show.

He promised 10 by March 2026

Personally, if I was Sony my GaaS push would have looked like this:

1. Dreams on PC and PS5 + VR Support
2. Gran Turismo 7 on PS5 and PC
3. MLB The Show
4. SOCOM US Navy Seals
5. Destiny 3
6. Marathon
7. Last of Us Online
8. Fairgame (just because we know it exists)
9. Concord (just because we know it exists)
10. Twisted Metal

When you consider the likely canceled Deviation game, we also know of probably two Horizon projects that might fall under that. All in all, I don't think anything is really ridiculous in nature. That being said, we know Dreams isn't one and I don't think they're including Gran Turismo.

You throw in some other things that people might actually like, like Motorstorm, Warhawk, Starhawk, MAG, Resistance, Killzone, and JetMoto/WipeOut.

Regardless, I think they have some diversity in the types of games they're looking to make, but more importantly, I don't think any of this really has much of an impact on their single-player games. I don't think ALL their studios have been "FORCED" to make GaaS games. You swap out a Destiny 3 for Deviation's game that was canceled and SOCOM for Horizon.

That doesn't begin to touch games like Firewall Ultra, Helldivers 2, and London Studios' game that probably actually round out the rest.

What a shocker, the "just put all Sony games on pc" rhetoric lol.


GaaS relinquished control over games you buy, pushes pay go play and loot boxes that entices kids to beg their parents to buy them a 20 dollar skins(fornite, CoD, Overwatch).

 

[Killjoy-NL]

What a shocker, the "just put all Sony games on pc" rhetoric lol.


GaaS relinquished control over games you buy, pushes pay go play and loot boxes that entices kids to beg their parents to buy them a 20 dollar skins(fornite, CoD, Overwatch).

Then don't buy GaaS titles.

What do you care if kids ask their parents for 20 dollar skins?

 

[Neofire]

Then don't buy GaaS titles.

What do you care if kids ask their parents for 20 dollar skins?

Because I have kids, what kind of stupid question is this. So if the entire videogame industry(which I love) ends of being "GaaS" cancer I'm just supposed to look crazy and say "oh well" huh?

 

[The artful mincer]

Sony and Jim Ryan get a lot of hate from pursuing GaaS revenue but I really think that people have no idea how much GaaS generates in revenue compared to a traditional model and traditional AAA storyline games and just how unsustainable it is to be on the outside looking in on this.

Fortnite - 6 billion dollars in 2022
PUBG - 2.5 billion revenue in 2022 (PC, Console, and Mobile)
Roblox - 2.2 billion in 2022
Genshin Impact - 2 billion annually
League of Legends - 1.8 billion in 2022
Warzone - 1.8 billion~
Apex Legends - 2 billion in 3 years
CSGO - 6.7 billion in 10 years
Rainbow Six Siege - 1.12 billion in 4 years

Sony made 27 billion in 2022 in revenue but they aren't retaining much due to the high operating cost

I've said it many times, that I have zero interest in GaaS or even online games, but I think Jim Ryan has correctly understood that Sony needs at least one or two major GaaS titles to bolster operating incomes, otherwise, it's going to fall well behind other publishers. I think they were overly ambitious with the numbers they wanted to introduce, but I also think those numbers were inflated by games like MLB The Show.

He promised 10 by March 2026

Personally, if I was Sony my GaaS push would have looked like this:

1. Dreams on PC and PS5 + VR Support
2. Gran Turismo 7 on PS5 and PC
3. MLB The Show
4. SOCOM US Navy Seals
5. Destiny 3
6. Marathon
7. Last of Us Online
8. Fairgame (just because we know it exists)
9. Concord (just because we know it exists)
10. Twisted Metal

When you consider the likely canceled Deviation game, we also know of probably two Horizon projects that might fall under that. All in all, I don't think anything is really ridiculous in nature. That being said, we know Dreams isn't one and I don't think they're including Gran Turismo.

You throw in some other things that people might actually like, like Motorstorm, Warhawk, Starhawk, MAG, Resistance, Killzone, and JetMoto/WipeOut.

Regardless, I think they have some diversity in the types of games they're looking to make, but more importantly, I don't think any of this really has much of an impact on their single-player games. I don't think ALL their studios have been "FORCED" to make GaaS games. You swap out a Destiny 3 for Deviation's game that was canceled and SOCOM for Horizon.

That doesn't begin to touch games like Firewall Ultra, Helldivers 2, and London Studios' game that probably actually round out the rest.

Is that 27 billion Sony as a whole? If yes what's PlayStation segment revenue please?

 

[Pelta88]

Gaas leads to a ton of watered down fodder.

It really is that simple.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Stop always only looking at the absolute top when speaking of GaaS. For every GaaS success case there are tons of failures that didn't make the cut and brought nothing but wasted time and money. Investing in a live service with the expectations of big returns is a huge huge risk.

90% of gamers on gaming forums seem to be stuck in nostalgia.

GaaS is the future of gaming and rightfully so.
With internet, the gaming landscape changed and people need to get with the times.

You sound like one of those nft bros. How many times have i heard now how "New trendy thing is the future".

 

[The artful mincer]

GAAS is a lottery ticket...but also Marathon is going to be huge.

GAAS is saturated...but it grows every year with no end in sight.

GAAS is the future, plain and simple.

How is it growing?

Is it just a few titles getting bigger or are more titles increasing the total pie? Or both?

 

[kaizenkko]

What's better? TLOU2 who have cost $200bi, but generation a lot for Sony (not only money) or TLOU Factions who probably never will be release and also have cost a lot of money (and contribute for the bad wave of Sony news)?

Jim is right, gaas is the future and Sony need at least some for their portfolio, but reduce drastically the investment in singleplayer games is just a dumb decision.

Sony should focus in gaas only with Bungie and Firewalk. What people like you don't really realise is that Naughty Dog pipeline is completely broken thanks to that gaas project. And I'm not saying Sony have force their to do that game, but definitely have some type of "incentive". Bend pipeline should be broken to.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Because I have kids, what kind of stupid question is this. So if the entire videogame industry(which I love) ends of being "GaaS" cancer I'm just supposed to look crazy and say "oh well" huh?

So do I. If they decide to spend their allowance on €20 skins that's on them.
Eventually, they will learn that it's a waste of money, because they won't have money for something else until they get their next allowance.

If you think it's a problem, then just don't give them money.
I think it's more of a you-problem than a GaaS- problem.

You sound like one of those nft bros. How many times have i heard now how "New trendy thing is the future".

I'm not even close to a "nft bro". I'm just not stuck in the past.
GaaS is a logical step in the evolution of gaming with internet.

I could flip it and say that you sound like a jaded old gamer clinging on to the 'good ol days'.

 

[Aces High]

Making popular gaas games a bug success needs alot of resources and the resources aint infinite.

Minecraft was developed by a single person.

The battle royale genre started with an ARMA mod developed by a single person.

The MOBA genre started with a Warcraft 3 mod called DOTA developed by a small team of hobby modders.

Myhojo was founded by three college students who developed smartphone games. The studio was nearly bankrupt before they releases Genshin Impact.

You don't need money. You need talent.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'm not even close to a "nft bro". I'm just not stuck in the past.
GaaS is a logical step in the evolution of gaming with internet.

Only if you stretch the definition of GaaS until it reaches "any digital game that may receive some updates post-launch". The difference between a traditional launch and a service game is merely the business model, and both have its pros and cons. How well it utilizes modern technology or the internet is a completely separate issue.

 

[ReBurn]

How could it not? The very idea of what the term means is simply an online game....

I don't even know why people are trying to force this term to mean something else to argue. As far as I see it, the thing being talked about is online games....

Some one can call it live service, GaaS, inter tube connected experience for the modern computer goer....the shit is still an online game lol



Same reason an MMO would fail then, is the same reason a GaaS would fail today

Same things that would occur if a MMO is successful like updates, expansions, long term support etc, is the same fucking thing that occurs with GaaS today

The term is simply another word for online game and I've yet to find anyone to give some proper difference.

A lot of people seem to think that GaaS only applies to free to play games like Fortnite, but subscription MMO's like WoW are the original GaaS. They were just around before the "as a service" thing took off.

There is more to GaaS than just an online games, though. Offline games you download via a subscription service like PS+ fall under GaaS because, unless you buy them outright, they only work while your subscription to the service that licenses them is valid.

 

[StealthGoblin]

You give a big corporation a lot of trust, I haven't seen jack out of my PS5 and the future looks grim, what is to stop the company from just doubling down into the money makers and forgetting mostly about the single player games with less "revenue growth potential", if its the goodness of thier heart then people who actually care about gaming are screwed.

The only corporation of the big 3 I trust (a small amount) to deliver is Nintendo since they thankfully have a degree of pride (for now) when it comes to mario and zelda but even that may erode once the old guard dies.

Sorry to hear that. I've had a great time with my PS5.

Returnal is my favourite game of the gen so far
Loved Miles Morales
Loved Ratchet
Loved Demon's souls
Loved Sackboy (via PS+)
Loved God of War Ragnarok
Loved Horizon Forbidden West
etc

 

[Ronin_7]

Every zoomer I know primarily plays GAAS games. Some of them even exclusively.

PlayStation not adapting GAAS is insanity.

People need to shut the fuck up and leave their stupid little bubble.

The younger audience is mainly GaaS players yes.

 

[BootsLoader]

Sony and Jim Ryan get a lot of hate from pursuing GaaS revenue but I really think that people have no idea how much GaaS generates in revenue compared to a traditional model and traditional AAA storyline games and just how unsustainable it is to be on the outside looking in on this.

Fortnite - 6 billion dollars in 2022
PUBG - 2.5 billion revenue in 2022 (PC, Console, and Mobile)
Roblox - 2.2 billion in 2022
Genshin Impact - 2 billion annually
League of Legends - 1.8 billion in 2022
Warzone - 1.8 billion~
Apex Legends - 2 billion in 3 years
CSGO - 6.7 billion in 10 years
Rainbow Six Siege - 1.12 billion in 4 years

Sony made 27 billion in 2022 in revenue but they aren't retaining much due to the high operating cost

I've said it many times, that I have zero interest in GaaS or even online games, but I think Jim Ryan has correctly understood that Sony needs at least one or two major GaaS titles to bolster operating incomes, otherwise, it's going to fall well behind other publishers. I think they were overly ambitious with the numbers they wanted to introduce, but I also think those numbers were inflated by games like MLB The Show.

He promised 10 by March 2026

Personally, if I was Sony my GaaS push would have looked like this:

1. Dreams on PC and PS5 + VR Support
2. Gran Turismo 7 on PS5 and PC
3. MLB The Show
4. SOCOM US Navy Seals
5. Destiny 3
6. Marathon
7. Last of Us Online
8. Fairgame (just because we know it exists)
9. Concord (just because we know it exists)
10. Twisted Metal

When you consider the likely canceled Deviation game, we also know of probably two Horizon projects that might fall under that. All in all, I don't think anything is really ridiculous in nature. That being said, we know Dreams isn't one and I don't think they're including Gran Turismo.

You throw in some other things that people might actually like, like Motorstorm, Warhawk, Starhawk, MAG, Resistance, Killzone, and JetMoto/WipeOut.

Regardless, I think they have some diversity in the types of games they're looking to make, but more importantly, I don't think any of this really has much of an impact on their single-player games. I don't think ALL their studios have been "FORCED" to make GaaS games. You swap out a Destiny 3 for Deviation's game that was canceled and SOCOM for Horizon.

That doesn't begin to touch games like Firewall Ultra, Helldivers 2, and London Studios' game that probably actually round out the rest.

I understand that it’s better for the company etc. but I don’t really care. So far Sony had revenue with making incredible games without in app purchases (or with some to none). They grew on that recipe. Why should I care for Jim Ryan when he is destroying gaming for me.

Anyway, maybe I am getting old, maybe gaming era is different now….but, by the looks of it, Alan Wake 2 is going to be successful. Dunno.

 

[cormack12]

GaaS is high risk, high reward and also cannibalises your user base as not many grown adults can maintain more than 1 or 2 GaaS games properly.

The problem most Sony fans have is the studio time and effort spent on hoping 3 of the 10 attempts work out.

As a strategy I'm not too fussed. If any look good, like Horizon I'll give them a go. If they don't I'll pass.

Also, there needs to be a serious discussion about how much non-essential cinematic sequences Sony include in their flagship titles. Because the cost is going to be pretty huge there. I just played the Coney Island section of SM2. An amazing, realised funfair, various mini games, working rides, all animated etc. I spent like 10 minutes there, and there was an encounter at the end. Is all the work that went into that (most of which is dressing) really worth it? These are things pushing costs up. It feels a bit indulgent. It looks fantastic don't get me wrong but is it essential to the plot?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The last few Socoms were terrible. So bad, the studio shut down along with that other doozy shooter MAG. Resistance was never made again and Sony partnered with Activision for COD marketing since 2014 because everyone knew Resistance isn't going to grow the platform. KZ SF MP was so bad, nobody was even playing the MP shortly after. The game supposedly sold a huge 2M copies within the launch window and people were posting pics that only 1000 people were online two months after release. It was dead. MLB the Show sells about 1M copies per year thats it. Maybe more now since it's on Switch/Xbox. Hot Shots Golf series is not a game that will be a platform seller.

Lets face it. Sony systems are not driven by first party MP/GAAS games. Thats why they bailed on making them. If they were driven by GAAS, Sony would still be churning out tons of MP/GAAS games. For Sony gamers, there's no point supporting first party GAAS when they got a reputation of cutting service fast. Even their latest MM game Dreams is dead. They already cut the cord on updates just 3 years later.

I dont think too many PS gamers are craving for first party GAAS shooters, more media molecule community creation games, F2P grindy games etc... But the profits are too tempting to avoid.

They make $2 billion profit per year from their gaming division. One of their giant AAA SP games takes a couple hundred million to make over 5 years. In 5 years, Sony can make $10 billion profit alone. They can make tons of new SP IPs just like what they did in the past. But now they are content focusing on sequels and offshoot games for the same 5-6 key IPs.

I'm not saying to re-open Zipper Interactive, but the franchise still carries weight. When SOCOM came out, it was one of their better games, but Sony was still in its infancy when it came to 1st party gaming. The push for quality didn't really come until well after.

The other problem with Sony's multiplayer games was that they were still only available on PlayStation, whereas games like CoD were on PC, Xbox, and PS. Now that Sony is embracing PC, it opens things up tremendously for their multiplayer game. The reason Sony never really focused on multiplayer was because their games were pretty closed off from the greater gaming community and Playstation Network wasn't as well established back then.

Look at Halo and part of why Halo Infinite struggled. As the larger online community grew, Halo had still been closed off. In fact since the X1 didn't sell well, this really limited the exposure of Halo games for an entire generation.

Making these games for PS5 and PC means being able to throw extra resources into them because of the increased consumer base and now the PS5 is actually a more robust place for online gaming than Xbox which is a complete turnaround from the PS3.

They've made new IP, they're just not always successful. Returnal was a new IP. They just created a new IP in Ghost of Tsushima 3 years ago. Can you please name me this gaming company coming out with a successful new IP every year? Microsoft struggled to do this for 20 years.

 

[ManaByte]

Like halo infinite , although it launched with barebones content now after 5th season the game is probably the best multiplayer game of this generation but the hype died down

Phil getting 100% of Halo, COD, and Blizzard GaaS money:

 

[MagnesD3]

Sorry to hear that. I've had a great time with my PS5.

Returnal is my favourite game of the gen so far
Loved Miles Morales
Loved Ratchet
Loved Demon's souls
Loved Sackboy (via PS+)
Loved God of War Ragnarok
Loved Horizon Forbidden West
etc

I really enjoyed Returnal, Ragnarok while mostly good was very disappointing. The other stuff isnt enough output. There just isnt enough top tier exclusives and its been in decline since the PS4, its because Xbox sucks so there is no competition.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I really enjoyed Returnal, Ragnarok while mostly good was very disappointing. The other stuff isnt enough output. There just isnt enough top tier exclusives and its been in decline since the PS4, its because Xbox sucks so there is no competition.

Development times are getting longer so if you don't like that cadence then you'll be disappointed moving forward. They literally can't make them any faster.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

The problem is that today it is very difficult to enter GaaS market right now. Especially with games taking years to develop. Imagine spending 5-6 years and then the market has completely changed and the same type of GaaS genre is not popular anymore.

 

[StealthGoblin]

The problem is that today it is very difficult to enter GaaS market right now. Especially with games taking years to develop. Imagine spending 5-6 years and then the market has completely changed and the same type of GaaS genre is not popular anymore.

That's why they've spread their bets.

They've got extraction shooters, hero shooters, PVE, PVP, Heist MP games, Vehicular combat etc

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Can they force Bungie to scrap that fucking Marathon extraction shooter shit and have them make a proper new Marathon instead?

They can keep the art direction/visual direction; that looked cool.

I think Marathon represents one of the biggest missed opportunities in gaming, but I recognize my bias for SP narrative campaigns.

They've seen there is a market for PVP Extraction, so they think they can accomplish a successful GaaS game in addition to Destiny. If it works out they'll be geniuses. Throw out a Destiny 3 and they're going to have some long-term success.

I wish they'd at least partner with someone like Sucker Punch to do a character-driven single-player campaign.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's why they've spread their bets.

They've got extraction shooters, hero shooters, PVE, PVP, Heist MP games, Vehicular combat etc

Right, somehow people think Sony meant 12 Battle Royale shooters... It's not the case.

In fact, the Deviation Games FPS was probably canceled because they'd rather put more money into another FPS with more promise from Firewalk.

Firewalk is an 8-minute drive from Bungie and my guess is that Firewalk will probably end up getting enveloped by Bungie at some point. They're currently still in the ProbablyMonsters studios, so at some point, it'll make more sense for them to move.

The guy who they bought Firewalk from was the CEO of Bungie from 2000-2016.

Tony Hsu the head of Firewalk? Was the general manager of Destiny at Activision. Ryan Ellis was a creative director at Bungie before he left for Firewalk.

We're going to see the reasons why Sony wanted to buy Haven and Firewalk probably next year. And we always wondered why they didn't buy Deviation and then their game gets scrapped.

When these games come out, we'll see if Jim Ryan was off his rocker.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Only if you stretch the definition of GaaS until it reaches "any digital game that may receive some updates post-launch". The difference between a traditional launch and a service game is merely the business model, and both have its pros and cons. How well it utilizes modern technology or the internet is a completely separate issue.

What does that have to do with what I said?

And how does that automatically make GaaS bad? There's nothing wrong with the concept.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

GaaS is high risk, high reward and also cannibalises your user base as not many grown adults can maintain more than 1 or 2 GaaS games properly.

The problem most Sony fans have is the studio time and effort spent on hoping 3 of the 10 attempts work out.

As a strategy I'm not too fussed. If any look good, like Horizon I'll give them a go. If they don't I'll pass.

Also, there needs to be a serious discussion about how much non-essential cinematic sequences Sony include in their flagship titles. Because the cost is going to be pretty huge there. I just played the Coney Island section of SM2. An amazing, realised funfair, various mini games, working rides, all animated etc. I spent like 10 minutes there, and there was an encounter at the end. Is all the work that went into that (most of which is dressing) really worth it? These are things pushing costs up. It feels a bit indulgent. It looks fantastic don't get me wrong but is it essential to the plot?

The PlayStation userbase sells over 100 million per generation.

A GREAT selling PS game will sell 15-20 million units...

There are plenty of examples of GaaS/Live Service games that are maintained by people. EA FC/FIFA is essentially an annual release live service game.

By having diversity in their games, they hit different audiences. By releasing on PC, they open themselves up to significantly larger audiences as well.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Phil getting 100% of Halo, COD, and Blizzard GaaS money:

It's already dropped to 42...

 

[Woopah]

Is that 27 billion Sony as a whole? If yes what's PlayStation segment revenue please?

That;s the PlayStation revenue.

But remember that the figure includes 100% of digital and mtx revenue, including the third party stuff which Sony doesn't actually keep. So the profit margin isn't as bad as it looks.

 

[Guilty_AI]

What does that have to do with what I said?

And how does that automatically make GaaS bad? There's nothing wrong with the concept.

Why do you think i'm saying "its bad"? Its this idea that GaaS will replace everything else and traditional models thats retarded, or thats its somehow some lance of longinus that'll solve all problems within the industry.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Why do you think i'm saying "its bad"? Its this idea that GaaS will replace everything else and traditional models thats retarded, or thats its somehow some lance of longinus that'll solve all problems within the industry.

Who said that?

Edit:

Looking back, it might have been poor wording on my part when I said GaaS is the future of gaming.

It was not my intention to imply that GaaS will replace everything.
What I meant to say was that it's an important aspect of gaming that publishers (in this case Sony) need to cover as well to have steady revenue.

 

[Hudo]

I think Marathon represents one of the biggest missed opportunities in gaming, but I recognize my bias for SP narrative campaigns.

They've seen there is a market for PVP Extraction, so they think they can accomplish a successful GaaS game in addition to Destiny. If it works out they'll be geniuses. Throw out a Destiny 3 and they're going to have some long-term success.

I wish they'd at least partner with someone like Sucker Punch to do a character-driven single-player campaign.

I mean, I can accept a extraction shooter multiplayer component, if they really want to do it. But I want a single player campaign. Like the old Halo games that Bungie used to make.

I feel it's especially a spit in the face of the IP to make it multiplayer exclusive because Marathon's main legacy was and has always been the story and all the meta shit around it (they even had a website back then to post some story stuff). I wouldn't be so salty if they had just made a new IP entirely instead.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Who said that?

You:

GaaS is the future of gaming and rightfully so.

And Men_in_Boxes

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You:

And Men_in_Boxes

You:

And Men_in_Boxes

Yeah, gotcha, already edited that reply before you answered:

Edit:

Looking back, it might have been poor wording on my part when I said GaaS is the future of gaming.

It was not my intention to imply that GaaS will replace everything.
What I meant to say was that it's an important aspect of gaming that publishers (in this case Sony) need to cover as well to have steady revenue.

 

[cormack12]

The PlayStation userbase sells over 100 million per generation.

A GREAT selling PS game will sell 15-20 million units...

There are plenty of examples of GaaS/Live Service games that are maintained by people. EA FC/FIFA is essentially an annual release live service game.

By having diversity in their games, they hit different audiences. By releasing on PC, they open themselves up to significantly larger audiences as well.

I don't think any of that matters. Probably the most interesting case to contextualise it would be something like Valhalla. This was meant to be a 'Live Service' game (seasons etc) but eventually was a hybrid. And the traditional model of revenue (DLC and MTX) balanced out the Live Service underperforming.

There was also a post about Sony studio sizes the other day floating round. It takes a lot of resource to run a GaaS and from those numbers those studios definitely do not have the bandwidth to support a GaaS and develop single player content as well regardless of revenue. Look how long they take now with no established GaaS to support long term.

Some franchises are really strong in the Sony ecosystem, but unless it's really unique it doesn't really have a chance to compete with third party GaaS. But either way we will find out in time. But gambles like D:AS, the halting of Factions and Hell Divers 2 looking like outriders doesn't really fill me with confidence they yet solid ideas with longevity - and I liked and completed Outriders for the record.

The two most interesting and unique ideas are probably Horizon and Twisted Metal. But what signs point to these being any better than Avengers, Anthem, Breakpoint, BF2042 etc. and in a climate where games labelled as GaaS are deciding to remove these elements (e.g. Suicide Squad). I guess it depends on perspective - like if you consider Sea of Thieves or Fallout 76 then you may say Sony will have success. Basically it's like comparing Monster Hunter World to Dauntless and saying Capcom should emulate Dauntless. And then that's not even taking into account the response of the user bases (e.g. Assassin's Creed, Diablo) when you take a time to a GaaS format.

 

[ReBurn]

I understand that it’s better for the company etc. but I don’t really care. So far Sony had revenue with making incredible games without in app purchases (or with some to none). They grew on that recipe. Why should I care for Jim Ryan when he is destroying gaming for me.

Anyway, maybe I am getting old, maybe gaming era is different now….but, by the looks of it, Alan Wake 2 is going to be successful. Dunno.

Sony's revenue numbers also include revenue from the sales of third party games and content on the PlayStation store. While their first party output is amazing, it's doubtful that their first party games alone provide enough revenue to keep PlayStation running. They need to create a stream of stable revenue they control that doesn't require 5+ years of investment per game before seeing any ROI. Especially with as much as it is currently costing them to run the business.

If they were to lose some of the top third party games they would be in a bad spot and with Microsoft opening the wallet it is possible that it could happen. So I think they need some games that they own, like their own Warzone or Fortnite, that bring in recurring revenue more quickly to even be able to keep making the single player masterpieces in the long run. Could be wrong, but based on their recent plans I don't think I am.

 

[th4tguy]

The top revenue in that list is Fortnite, yet Epic has still been operating at a loss for years now. They spend as much as they earn, on marketing, paying out huge returns to investors and upper staff, and funding the entire budgets of the other areas of business.
It's true the game makes a ton of money but the work model is unsustainable long term. Epic has converted several studios that used to make original games into Fortnite skin factories. It's sad and turned the company into a shell of what it used to be.
I hope Sony never achieves that.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

They can fart out GaaS games until the cows come home, but I don't like it and I'm not going to support it. "it's a business bruh" well they can just shit on every customer they've ever been supported by, but who cares? amirite?

 

[Rockman33]

Why is everyone bending over backwards trying to spin Sony making a ton of GaaS games a positive thing?

You think if some of them are really successful and make boat loads of money they are going to just use that money to make new single player games? No, they will make more games like the thing that makes them tons of money.

They are already very successful making SP games and then getting their revenue cut from 3rd party games.

 

[SHA]

COD is not AAA, people've been mixing profits with content size, this is so wrong, AAA these days are rare, and it's not about review scores either, they're so unrelated, you can't squash AAA value from an average score, this is wrong and misleading.