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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
electroshockwave
Member
I think it's kind of unfair to PD to dismiss what they've done as just the results of time and money, especially when we don't know the budgets of Forza or GT5 to compare. I think a lot of it's down to the creative drive or ambition that Kaz and the team have. When you look at Greenawalt's comments it really doesn't seem like it occurs to him that PD would add all these features to their game even with all the time they have.
I think this is my new favourite gif.
:lol :lolMelfice7 said:
I think this is my new favourite gif.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
You can roughly compare them from game credits and how long it's been in development - take average salaries for each dev team members times the number of years, and that would be a good majority of the development budget. Staff salary always makes the bulk of it.electroshockwave said:
DuckRacer said:
I think their fall started in late 2008 when Activision decided not to go for F1 licence because of ridiculous money Bernie wanted for licence-per-yer (more than 15 million $, and contract for 3 consecutive years).
I am 100% sure Activision bought Bizzare in order to make multiplatform F1 game, but all went down the drain after they couldn't negotiate the price with FOMA.
Codemasters jumped in, grabbed the licence in front of Activison and EA (EA also didn't want to pay for it, although they also wanted it back and had SlightlyMad Studios ready fot the work) and now they're in the problem.
DangerousDave
Member
XiaNaphryz said:
In games like Forza o GT, the big part of the budget are licenses, more than salaries.
And don't forget that Forza 3 was a second iteration in the generation. Making it cheaper because of the already built engine from Forza 2.
So, in order to compare the "dev time", maybe we should focus in the time from GT5 Prologue to GT5.
Trickster
Member
cgcg said:
I guess that's one way to prove you haven't played the game :lol
DuckRacer said:29 months actually, unless they didn't start FM3's development until a full year passed after FM2's release.
Oh yeah, my bad, calculated it incorrectly
DangerousDave said:
Pretty sure they made a new engine for FM3.
PjotrStroganov
Member
cgcg said:
Post full size pics please. Really, they don't prove anything at that size.
Its been done earlier in the thread. The point is not that F3 looks bad, only that F3 has refined models from F2 which in game look virtually identical.PjotrStroganov said:
Making the whole short dev cycle arguments worthless. Both games built upon previous games experiences and development. Neither was built from scratch after the previous iteration. Improvements were made to graphics, physics and so forth, but neither studio scrapped everything.
Are saying those images are not real?
Hey guy's remember this.....:lol
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17729237&postcount=10884
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17729237&postcount=10884
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
DuckRacer said:
probably.
activision got another uk dev to make them their next racing game.
PjotrStroganov
Member
AndyD said:
I'm saying that at that size most current gen cars look the same. The pics just are too small to point out differences. I know many in-race models in F3 are nothing more than refined versions of F2 but that pic doesn't prove it.
I don't exactly know what you mean by the short dev cycle argument. But it seems that only a small increase of detail is because of a short dev cycle. GT5's standard cars dont's change anything about this argument because, if we go by KY, the 200+ cars took quite some time to model from scratch.
sechsterangriff
Member
Metalmurphy said:
Being rumored, hinted or even in de facto development doesn't necessary mean implementation on the final release. Take GT4's online mode for example.
What is certain is that the GT5 suffered some delays after Forza 3 release. If these were going to happen regardless, one can only speculate. But one can also speculate that maybe at that time at the eyes of PD they were more comparable (even if GT5 already had the edge) and PD felt the need to extend development.
That the kind of "pressure" I was talking about. Sure it's speculation, but plausible.
PjotrStroganov said:
I was alluding to those saying F3 was made entirely in the time after F2 and GT5 was made entirely in the time after GT4 and PD did nothing else. Its a stupid argument from so many angles that it needs to be dropped.
And there's more. Including one of his saying there is nothing he would add to Forza beyond small things. Its the pinnacle of the genre.
sechsterangriff
Member
What? You think it's impossible for a developer (even if it is PD) to take note of what the competition is doing?spwolf said:
theignoramus
Member
They were not obnoxious at all about FM2. They smack talked with the last one as a way to get everyone talking. should have let the features do the talking FM3 is a fine game with or without PR mouthbreathers.Gek54 said:
theignoramus
Member
It would be funny if someone at PD or Sony provides Turn 10 with free copies of GT5 come release.
PjotrStroganov
Member
AndyD said:
Oh now I remember. Remarkable feat of grandstanding yes.
Dreams-Visions
Member
first meaningful post I've read in this thread.Tom Penny said:
PjotrStroganov
Member
Dreams-Visions said:
Except that one does look vastly superior.
Now that its finally settled that GT5 >>>> Forza3, it will be interesting to see how MS and Turn10 handle things for Forza4 on the next gen xbox...
I mean, GT5 took 5 years to make, and was made from the ground up. For turn10 to compete they must do the same in a shorter amount of time, especially considering its very probable GT6 is not going to take as long to produce as GT5 did.
I mean, GT5 took 5 years to make, and was made from the ground up. For turn10 to compete they must do the same in a shorter amount of time, especially considering its very probable GT6 is not going to take as long to produce as GT5 did.
H_Prestige
Banned
PjotrStroganov said:
It's pretty hilarious seeing people say they are even close.
I mean, Prologue from 2007 already had more accurate graphics than F3.
I maybe wrong, and I know development tools do get better and allow for more efficiency, but it's probably not ever going to be cost effective to significantly improve the car models beyond the state they are in GT5. Better performance, IQ, lighting, shadowing etc will make them look better of course, but I can't imagine PD ever notably stepping up the polycount on models or anything going forward. No doubt they will scrape certain aspects, but I imagine pretty much all the premium models in GT5 will be in the GTs going forward for a very long time. FZs cars don't look quite so good, but I imagine they're in a similar boat in that regard.
spwolf said:
They don't, and likely won't. But the fact remains that Forza's been compared to a title from late 2004. Folks at Turn10, fans, etc. can treat it as a rivalry all they wish, but clearly, PD doesn't see it this way, and once the game releases, few are going to treat that premise seriously until a rebuilt-from-the-ground-up and/or next gen successor to Forza appears.
PjotrStroganov
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4ktEr7a41E&feature=channel
Damn, iracing does have nice lighting though. If it weren't for realtime day/night cycle in GT5, iRacing would have a small edge when it comes to giving the player a realistic atmosphere.
Damn, iracing does have nice lighting though. If it weren't for realtime day/night cycle in GT5, iRacing would have a small edge when it comes to giving the player a realistic atmosphere.
now that F3 is not a worthy adversary anymore, we have to pick another to duke it out with GT5 right?
Senua
Member
PC sims since GTR2 dont seem to put much emphasis on graphics, its all about super realistic physics. iracings are good but not comparable to GT5 and most arcade racersPjotrStroganov said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4ktEr7a41E&feature=channel
Damn, iracing does have nice lighting though. If it weren't for realtime day/night cycle in GT5, iRacing would have a small edge when it comes to giving the player a realistic atmosphere.
now that F3 is not a worthy adversary anymore, we have to pick another to duke it out with GT5 right?
brotkasten
Member
They'll just 'improve', like they did with Forza 1->2->3. Some new features and details here and there, probably some weather, but nothing surprising or shocking. But to be honest, I don't really care, as long as they don't improve the maximum amount of cars on track.ULTROS! said:
Yeah, E3 11 will be very interesting. I hope the game journalists will do their best at the interviews with the T10 staff.TheSeks said:
I'm sure we already saw some concepts few months ago, when they had some people from Jalopnik in the studio.Metalmurphy said:
God, this is so true, it makes me sad. Media Molecule says 'Hi'.theignoramus said:
That's what they claim, yes, but somehow I have a hard time believing them. :lolTrickster said:
-Pyromaniac-
Member
That last quote is so immature.
I guess there is a chance he was asked to speak in that manner from PR/marketing etc, but they certainly read like the words of a cunt.
Maybe it's naive to hope the best developers would at least be humble to the people that came before them. Turn10 cloned GT, if they did it better or not is irrelevant to the fact that they should treat PD with the utmost respect.
It'd be like Bungie ripping on id or something. Even if Bungie makes the superior games (and I absolutely believe they do, by a long stretch) they could not have done it without the work id did to establish the form of the genre and 3D gaming in general.
Maybe it's naive to hope the best developers would at least be humble to the people that came before them. Turn10 cloned GT, if they did it better or not is irrelevant to the fact that they should treat PD with the utmost respect.
It'd be like Bungie ripping on id or something. Even if Bungie makes the superior games (and I absolutely believe they do, by a long stretch) they could not have done it without the work id did to establish the form of the genre and 3D gaming in general.
Well, to be honest, it will be very intresting to see the direction in which Forza series will go.
There is no other way to describe the sales of FM3 than modest. AAA title, that is pinnacle of genre on one platform, with crazy marketing and millions payed for licenses, development and such, and with more than 35 million consoles on market at release time should have sold better than actual numbers of FM3.
Also, when you look at online at this point, there is less than 2000 people at weekends-peak racing in Public Lobbies. That is a shame for such a monumentaly-funded franchise just 10 months after release.
Also, they will have serious problems with catching up Polyphony at this point in too many fields. Even if we presume they can make weather and changeable day/night (they have Bizzare's tech ready at rigs), probem actualy lies in something else - in-game structure and features.
From what we have seen, GT5 will bring drastical in-game structure, new way of execution of carrer, fully licenced career-events, deep and hard-core orientedd online (Track Days and My Lounge section at first), expanded B-Spec mode with Gran Turismo Anywhere function, create&play philosophy through Course Maker and upgraded ownership-philosophy aproach that no other game has yet come even close.
And all of those options/features in-game structure-wise have clearly been made as new foundation, in order to being expanded in the next game (GT6 will obviusly come on PS3 in next 2-3 years). So, everything that GT5 is lacking will probably be executioned oin GT6, in the similar way GT4 delivered 3X more content features than GT3 for example. Having foundations like those just shows what monumental work have they done in previous years, managing the frame they can now expand flawlessly for probably almost a decade. When I see GT5, I see GT6. I see all cars being Premium, I see weather/time of day on every track, I see revamped 3D support (when even more people will actually have 3D sets), expanded Course Maker feature, expanded GT Anywhere feature, expanded online and community features and futher improvements in all fields we probably do not think about. They have knowledge, tech, money and crazy amount of ideas to do it.
I really do not know what T10 - or any other developer/franchise to be honest - have in their sleeves to compete with such a overall-bahamuth as GT5 undoubtfully is.
This way or another, I was very intrigued by the fact Microsoft didn't show us new Project Gotham at this year E3, and in November we will be less than 6 months to E3 2011. All eyes will be at MS and T10 to show their answer at GT5 and it will be very intresting to see what have they done.
There is no other way to describe the sales of FM3 than modest. AAA title, that is pinnacle of genre on one platform, with crazy marketing and millions payed for licenses, development and such, and with more than 35 million consoles on market at release time should have sold better than actual numbers of FM3.
Also, when you look at online at this point, there is less than 2000 people at weekends-peak racing in Public Lobbies. That is a shame for such a monumentaly-funded franchise just 10 months after release.
Also, they will have serious problems with catching up Polyphony at this point in too many fields. Even if we presume they can make weather and changeable day/night (they have Bizzare's tech ready at rigs), probem actualy lies in something else - in-game structure and features.
From what we have seen, GT5 will bring drastical in-game structure, new way of execution of carrer, fully licenced career-events, deep and hard-core orientedd online (Track Days and My Lounge section at first), expanded B-Spec mode with Gran Turismo Anywhere function, create&play philosophy through Course Maker and upgraded ownership-philosophy aproach that no other game has yet come even close.
And all of those options/features in-game structure-wise have clearly been made as new foundation, in order to being expanded in the next game (GT6 will obviusly come on PS3 in next 2-3 years). So, everything that GT5 is lacking will probably be executioned oin GT6, in the similar way GT4 delivered 3X more content features than GT3 for example. Having foundations like those just shows what monumental work have they done in previous years, managing the frame they can now expand flawlessly for probably almost a decade. When I see GT5, I see GT6. I see all cars being Premium, I see weather/time of day on every track, I see revamped 3D support (when even more people will actually have 3D sets), expanded Course Maker feature, expanded GT Anywhere feature, expanded online and community features and futher improvements in all fields we probably do not think about. They have knowledge, tech, money and crazy amount of ideas to do it.
I really do not know what T10 - or any other developer/franchise to be honest - have in their sleeves to compete with such a overall-bahamuth as GT5 undoubtfully is.
This way or another, I was very intrigued by the fact Microsoft didn't show us new Project Gotham at this year E3, and in November we will be less than 6 months to E3 2011. All eyes will be at MS and T10 to show their answer at GT5 and it will be very intresting to see what have they done.
Lagspike_exe
Member
spats said:
Not to mention they're attempting to capture completely different demography than the one Forza originally aimed for.