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[[Nintex]]

Forza 3 looks great. When I popped in Forza 2 back in the day I thought: "Well it looks good, but not that good..." . When I started the Forza 3 demo is was simply blown away. I remember when we were playing Halo yesterday and another guy joined our chat channel to say that he was on his way but had to try the demo first. The second thing I heard was: "oh my god, this can't be real, holy shit at this ferrari it almost looks like the real thing. omg look at this reflection this game is insane the driving is so smooth I have to buy this I need this!".

Just prior to downloading the demo he said to me: "I don't like racing games but if you say it's worth it I'll give it a try". So if that doesn't proof how awesome and mindblowing Forza is, I don't know what will. Also, since this is still the thread about comparing the two games and flinging shit all over the place, let me add that he might have the same reaction if he sees Gran Turismo 5. "if" he sees Gran Turismo 5 in his lifetime.

 

[TheSeks]

So i really don't want to believe that Turn 10's community manager was being a shady fuck and lying to everyone the entire time, because I built my expectations around his hype.

You're doing it wrong, then. You get hyped for something for your reasons, not che/Turn 10/Polyphony Digital/Whoever reasons.

The fact is, people are going to lie to you all the time and try to give you shiny photos and "bullshots" as GAF likes to call them. They're trying to sell a product. That's their (marketing/PR/whoever) job. It's not really shady, but it's a terrible practice, yes.

It's the same reason you'll see box-art shots in some games look better than the actual "in motion" gameplay. They're trying to sell it to you.

And it nearly worked for you if you got hyped by FM3's photomode photos.

 

[akachan ningen]

Forza 3 looks great. When I popped in Forza 2 back in the day I thought: "Well it looks good, but not that good..." . When I started the Forza 3 demo is was simply blown away. I remember when we were playing Halo yesterday and another guy joined our chat channel to say that he was on his way but had to try the demo first. The second thing I heard was: "oh my god, this can't be real, holy shit at this ferrari it almost looks like the real thing. omg look at this reflection this game is insane the driving is so smooth I have to buy this I need this!".

Just prior to downloading the demo he said to me: "I don't like racing games but if you say it's worth it I'll give it a try". So if that doesn't proof how awesome and mindblowing Forza is, I don't know what will. Also, since this is still the thread about comparing the two games and flinging shit all over the place, let me add that he might have the same reaction if he sees Gran Turismo 5. "if" he sees Gran Turismo 5 in his lifetime.

You don't think he'll live to see March 2010? Does he have a chronic illness?

 

[[Nintex]]

You don't think he'll live to see March 2010? Does he have a chronic illness?

I dunno, I don't think it'll launch in march 2010, wasn't it supposed to be out this year, and last year? And the year before that?

 

[Dra-Q]

"if" he sees Gran Turismo 5 in his lifetime.

Does he have cancer?

 

[theignoramus]

And it nearly worked for you if you got hyped by FM3's photomode photos.

I get what you're saying, but just about everyone in console space markets bullshots. It's a damn near universal trend. Most of the time these bullshots simply enhance the IQ with more AA. I think it was totally rationale to assume that the only difference between photomode and gameplay was AA and motion blur.

 

[akachan ningen]

I dunno, I don't think it'll launch in march 2010, wasn't it supposed to be out this year, and last year? And the year before that?

No, this is the first time it's had an official release date.

 

[nib95]

Do you really think that FM3 looks like on those gamersyde screens ?

Well I guess that's what you call self persuasion.

Do you really think GT5P looks like that screen posted above? Which has even MORE compression (by about 100kb+), artifacting and blur than the Gamersyde capture?

Look, these comparisons will go round and round for all eternity. My take is that the cars in GT5P/GT5 still look noticeably better in GT. The lighting is better as well, and the overall visuals are much more realistic. That said, F3 has more dramatic visuals that are more of a punch to the senses, great scale, rich textures etc.

I guess really we have to compare a like for like track. Till then, we won't really know.


On to the more important topic....gameplay...

Why does Forza 3 seem so much easier than Forza 2? And why is it so much harder to lose control or have to fight with the cars in F3 with all assists off? I've never known a high performance vehicle to handle so easily with TCS off. I just don't get why it feels so much more accessible than Forza 2 or GT5P.

 

[Diablohead]

I would have liked it if forza 3 (demo at least) swapped your car around with the high poly one for the 30fps replays, but it still uses the low poly modes you drive around. That imo makes the high poly car's rather wasted only seeing them as you pick your car colour...

I don't mind playing races with a lower poly car as i'm racing and have less time to worry about how my car looks, but a replay should look stunning, not half the frame rate and add a little blur.

 

[xbhaskarx]

This thread is funny.

.

I'll be buying both games since I own both consoles. I'm glad this thread exists though, so people have an opportunity to make fools of themselves.

 

[derder]

I may need to rebuy a ps3 come march.

 

[akachan ningen]

I just wanted to post my favorite GT5P pic:

I like that you can see inside the car from the outside.

 

[Windom Earle]

go to the FM3 demo thread.

It's not a dealbreaker or anything (cars still look nice), but still embarassing for Turn 10. Future FM4 shots already lost all their credibility. That's the price you pay!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17748476&postcount=616

 

[Dra-Q]

It's not a dealbreaker or anything (cars still look nice), but still embarassing for Turn 10. Future FM4 shots already lost all their credibility. That's the price you pay!

But, but, but che said!

 

[theignoramus]

So does every gameplay car in the FM3 demo have blacked out interiors, when playing from an overhead view?

 

[dark10x]

It's not a dealbreaker or anything (cars still look nice), but still embarassing for Turn 10. Future FM4 shots already lost all their credibility. That's the price you pay!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17748476&postcount=616

I don't know, man, it doesn't seem like something to get bent out of shape over.

This extra level of detail means nothing DURING gameplay. How often are you going to be able to appreciate this fine detail while racing? It looks convincing enough.

I am curious about GT5, though. I figured the same sort of trickery was present in that game as well. It just seemed natural to me that detail would be reduced during gameplay in order to keep the framerate high. Such detail just doesn't seem necessary while actually racing. Is that the case or not?

Now one thing that bugs me about GT5P is the inconsistency in the quality of the backgrounds. The mountain track was present in that GTHD demo back in 2006, for instance, and looks noticeably worse than some of the other tracks. The London track is just insane looking, for instance, and feels like a massive step over other tracks in the game. It's like, they've been working on the game for so long that you have a quality rift between different tracks.

 

[user_nat]

I just wanted to post my favorite GT5P pic:
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/20071019/gt5p07.jpg[IMG]

I like that you can see inside the car from the outside.[/QUOTE]
Forza replays do also.. I think.

 

[Windom Earle]

I don't know, man, it doesn't seem like something to get bent out of shape over.

This extra level of detail means nothing DURING gameplay. How often are you going to be able to appreciate this fine detail while racing? It looks convincing enough.

I am curious about GT5, though. I figured the same sort of trickery was present in that game as well. It just seemed natural to me that detail would be reduced during gameplay in order to keep the framerate high. Such detail just doesn't seem necessary while actually racing. Is that the case or not?

Now one thing that bugs me about GT5P is the inconsistency in the quality of the backgrounds. The mountain track was present in that GTHD demo back in 2006, for instance, and looks noticeably worse than some of the other tracks. The London track is just insane looking, for instance, and feels like a massive step over other tracks in the game. It's like, they've been working on the game for so long that you have a quality rift between different tracks.

As said, it's not a dealbreaker. Anyone with realistic expectations knew that the quality of the photomode shots would not be achieved in the final game. It's still a big fail from the community manager for denying this though.

It's very likely that GT is doing the same (I dunno), but at least they did not fool the public beforehand like Turn 10.

I totally agree on the GTHD tracks, they look inconsistent and hideous (spectators) at times. I'm sure they won't appear in GT5 though.

 

[LordPhoque]

Destructoid comparison :

http://www.destructoid.com/tgs-09-forza-motorsport-3-vs-gran-turismo-5-149770.phtml

 

[Interfectum]

Destructoid comparison :

http://www.destructoid.com/tgs-09-forza-motorsport-3-vs-gran-turismo-5-149770.phtml

:lol @ destructoid... that reads like a forum post. I hope they don't get paid to write that drivel.

 

[ResidentDante]

I just wanted to post my favorite GT5P pic:

I like that you can see inside the car from the outside.

Do you enjoy the minimal smoke and marks from the tires, and not to mention the totally missing damage and the PS1-like crash physics too?

Well, I do.....cause it's hilarious :lol

 

[akachan ningen]

Destructoid comparison :

http://www.destructoid.com/tgs-09-forza-motorsport-3-vs-gran-turismo-5-149770.phtml

:lol It was posted yesterday. We all had a good laugh back then too.

Destructoid has had a vendetta against ps3 ever since the rejects from all the other gaming blogs formed that site.

 

[LordPhoque]

:lol It was posted yesterday. We all had a good laugh back then too.

Destructoid has had a vendetta against ps3 ever since the rejects from all the other gaming blogs formed that site.

So, Top Gear is okay, but Destructoid is not. Mmmh, k.

 

[akachan ningen]

So, Top Gear is okay

who said that?

 

[RSTEIN]

So, Top Gear is okay, but Destructoid is not. Mmmh, k.

You know how it goes. If IGN gives a PS3 game a bad score then they're teh biased. If Gamespot gives a 360 game a bad score then they're teh biased. Then suddenly XYZ site gives an exclusive game a glowing review then they lose their biased status :lol

 

[dark10x]

Do you enjoy the minimal smoke and marks from the tires, and not to mention the totally missing damage and the PS1-like crash physics too?

Well, I do.....cause it's hilarious :lol

To be fair, the damage modeling and smoke effects in Forza are nothing to write home about. It still looks awkward as hell in a high speed collision. Need for Speed Pro Street still trounces both of these games when it comes to the rendering of smoke effects, for instance, while Burnout Revenge is still the king of damage modeling.

 

[GSG Flash]

So, Top Gear is okay, but Destructoid is not. Mmmh, k.

:lol

Let me guess, you're another one of those who volunteer their time to be a MS community manager?

 

[ResidentDante]

who said that?

 

[LordPhoque]

:lol

Let me guess, you're another one of those who volunteer their time to be a MS community manager?

wat

 

[akachan ningen]

I don't remember saying anything about that top gear quote. you're just taking shots in the dark, aren't you? Your kind always do.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

BWAHAHAHA!!!

Just read the Destructoid article. I, uh-

Well, it's fine empirical journalism, that much I can say.

Let's see if I can do this right:

'The rocky hillsides and lush greenery easily showed up the bland, almost clinical-looking cityscape of Gran Turismo' :lol

'The tighter racing action of Forza 3 made it easier to appreciate the models of the cars I raced against.'

'Forza's framerate was liquid smooth, making it a bit easier on the eyes than GT5.' (60fps is more 60 fps on Forza)

'I'd go as far as to say that it felt damned near flawless with the steering wheel rig they had set up at each demo station. (Using an XBox 360 steering wheel no-less).'

'Forza 3 had me racing against other AI characters that were way too easy to pass, even with the option to set the difficulty. My choice of a medium difficulty looked more like an easy to my eyes. I didn't try the "hard" setting, but I hope it's considerably more difficult than medium was. That said, some of the credit goes, again, to the seemingly flawless control of the game.' (Didn't like it but it's still great!)

'Forza's gameplay was more enjoyable and approachable. It may be a bit more simple than that of GT5.' (Nice)

There you have it - Forza 3 wins kids.

 

[Rockstar]

Here are some comparison pics, to me, Gt Prologue is still better than Forza 3...

Ferrari California

Mini

 

[fastford58]

Graphics aside, Forza 3 feels better as a sim. That is where my money will go. Unless something significant changes with GT5 before it comes out in regards to the antiquated physics/mechanics, it will go by the wayside for me.

Gameplay is where it's at, gentlemen. For the same reason that IL-2 Sturmovik is played regularly by flight simmers to this day despite how antiquated the graphics are, I will play F3 over Carnival Circus Bumper Car Rail Ride any day of the week.

 

[nib95]

BWAHAHAHA!!!

Just read the Destructoid article. I, uh-

Well, it's fine empirical journalism, that much I can say.

Let's see if I can do this right:

'The rocky hillsides and lush greenery easily showed up the bland, almost clinical-looking cityscape of Gran Turismo' :lol

'The tighter racing action of Forza 3 made it easier to appreciate the models of the cars I raced against.'

'Forza's framerate was liquid smooth, making it a bit easier on the eyes than GT5.' (60fps is more 60 fps on Forza)

'I'd go as far as to say that it felt damned near flawless with the steering wheel rig they had set up at each demo station. (Using an XBox 360 steering wheel no-less).'

'Forza 3 had me racing against other AI characters that were way too easy to pass, even with the option to set the difficulty. My choice of a medium difficulty looked more like an easy to my eyes. I didn't try the "hard" setting, but I hope it's considerably more difficult than medium was. That said, some of the credit goes, again, to the seemingly flawless control of the game.' (Didn't like it but it's still great!)

'Forza's gameplay was more enjoyable and approachable. It may be a bit more simple than that of GT5.' (Nice)

There you have it - Forza 3 wins kids.

It was pretty laughable. Especially the comment about visuals. Newsflash! Destructoid thinks real life looks bland and clinical!

 

[sinnergy]

Here are some comparison pics, to me, Gt Prologue is still better than Forza 3...

Yes, but it's really impressive what Turn 10 has done in 2 years..

GT5 is what now 5 years in development? And the studio makes these GT games for 10 years?

 

[TheHeretic]

Nice work Rockstar.

The GT5 car models look better, whereas the Forza 3 environments look better, in my opinion. Honestly I don't see a huge difference in quality and the real winner will be for reasons outside visual fidelity.

 

[belvedere]

Nice work Rockstar.

The GT5 car models look better, whereas the Forza 3 environments look better, in my opinion. Honestly I don't see a huge difference in quality and the real winner will be for reasons outside visual fidelity.

The city courses in GT5 are amazing though, even in prologue. The buildings in London and Tokyo are amazingly detailed. In Tokyo for instance, you can see office furniture and lighting through the windows.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I like that you can see inside the car from the outside.

Forza replays do also.. I think.

Yes, they do:

 

[dark10x]

Nice work Rockstar.

The GT5 car models look better, whereas the Forza 3 environments look better, in my opinion. Honestly I don't see a huge difference in quality and the real winner will be for reasons outside visual fidelity.

You can't really judge the backgrounds of GT based on those shots, though. That is the same course from GTHD and is far and away the worst looking course in the game. It was designed years ago.

That's the issue I mentioned above being demonstrated. Some courses in GT5P look really impressive (London is out of this world), but others look really dated and out of place. Taking a course from a 2006 tech demo and dropping it into GT5 isn't a good move.

 

[Firewire]

Yes, but it's really impressive what Turn 10 has done in 2 years..

GT5 is what now 5 years in development? And the studio makes these GT games for 10 years?

His pics are from GT5P and that came out in April '08. The Japanese release was even earlier.

 

[Dra-Q]

GT5p is a generation ahead of the Forza 3 Demo IMHO. The interiors are so much better in GT, there isn't even a contest.

 

[LordPhoque]

GT5p is a generation ahead of the Forza 3 Demo IMHO. The interiors are so much better in GT, there isn't even a contest.

A generation ahead ? Sure the interiors looks better, but what about environnments ? Also, the models are pretty much the sames in those screens. Don't think it's "generation ahead" worthy, except if you were trolling.

 

[TheHeretic]

The city courses in GT5 are amazing though, even in prologue. The buildings in London and Tokyo are amazingly detailed. In Tokyo for instance, you can see office furniture and lighting through the windows.

Well I'm only going on whats been shown side by side. I haven't seen any cityscape Forza environments either.

 

[TTP]

Here are some comparison pics, to me, Gt Prologue is still better than Forza 3...

Nice real life vs videogame comparison there.

(Am I doing it right?)

 

[theignoramus]

It's nice that a late 2007 "closed beta for dummies/demo for the gullible" is visually competitive with a late 2009 demo. Still sour and disappointed about Turn 10's bullshit though. Werent they boasting they were pushing 400k models?

the models are pretty much the sames in those screens.

the fuck they are.

 

[lowrider007]

GT5p is a generation ahead of the Forza 3 Demo IMHO. The interiors are so much better in GT, there isn't even a contest.

Which is why I said near the beginning of the thread the 'argument' should be about physics/handling, not graphics.

What I would like to know is out of GT and the Forza 3 demo which would you consider has the most 'realistic' physics in terms of handling, you see the thing is I'm loving Forza 2 atm as to me it feels a lot better, but does that mean it's more realistic though ?, I also love GT but I find it a lot less unforgiving which is why I've warmed to Forza atm.

 

[Dra-Q]

A generation ahead ? Sure the interiors looks better, but what about environnments ? Also, the models are pretty much the sames in those screens. Don't think it's "generation ahead" worthy, except if you were trolling.

The models are the same? Do we look at the same pics? GT5p has the more detailed models and the better lightning. Forza 3 would maybe look better, if MS didn't rushed the the development.

 

[Firewire]

A generation ahead ? Sure the interiors looks better, but what about environnments ? Also, the models are pretty much the sames in those screens. Don't think it's "generation ahead" worthy, except if you were trolling.

Environments? In those GT5P shots the mountains look way better to me, the track looks better as well also there are actual spectators that help with the realism. That's not to say Forza 3 looks bad or anything its right up there with it.

 

[nib95]

Yes, but it's really impressive what Turn 10 has done in 2 years..

GT5 is what now 5 years in development? And the studio makes these GT games for 10 years?

Bear in mind though, the screens above are from GT5 Prologue. A 2 year old game. The real test will be GT5, when we see if adding damage hinders the visuals at all. So far it looks like GT5 only improves over GT5P. And again, that's at a higher resolution and with quite a few more cars on screen. But I'd argue Forza 3's tracks have more going on in them.

 

[eso76]

those comparison shots actually make cars look very similar, but at close inspection (zooming in with triangle button during replays in prologue, using car close camera in forza) the difference is rather huge. Prologue probably switches to higher lods model at some point, forza doesn't.

oh well, enough with graphics.

A friend of mine actually had a friend of his (currently tester for bridgestone and former kart/gt/whatever racer) come over and try both games with a wheel (logitech driving force for prologue, ms wheel for forza 3) and all assists off.
His opinion was forza is an immensely more realistic driving simulator. Cars behave almost exactly the way he would expect (except the mini which didn't feel right to him) with the most accurate being, not too surprisingly, the audi r8 which he stated was absolutely spot on.
I guess cars having too much grip compared to fm2 is just the way it should be ?