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[RoadHazard]

What you're doing is having your house on fire and running to your neighbours with a canister of gasoline, demanding to have their house be set on fire just for solidarity.
Thankfully so many EU countries are now against taking in refugees that the few who think differently won't have the clout to force the rest of EU.

It's more like: House Syria is on fire, so understandably the people in it flee and try to find a safe house to stay in. House Sweden is one of the few that decides to let these people in. After a while, though, house Sweden is getting awfully crowded, and the situation is getting unbearable for everyone involved. So we ask if maybe the other 25+ houses on the block could take some of the load. We're not asking you to fill up your house the way we did, only to take your fair share so that the distribution can be more even. None of our houses are gonna be set on fire.

 

[Stitch]

Police is investigating because of attempted murder,

Like they did in this case
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ike-a-piece-of-meat-spared-jail-a7379081.html
Only one of them got 4 years in prison

 

[Evolution of Metal]

There obviously need to be control mechanisms in place for this. If you've been accepted into country X, you don't have the right to choose country Y instead just because it has better social benefits. The moment you're accepted into a safe country (which is basically all of Europe) you're no longer a refugee. You fled your home country to save your life, you've now accomplished that. If you now try to get to Sweden instead anyway, you've become an economic migrant. Not in any life-threatening danger, just not in the most generous society there is. Those people generally get sent back where they came from, or at least that's the intent.

That is how it works, but migrants may lie about their identities. Refugees have their bio-data collected, so there are mechanisms in place to prevent migration from Eastern Europe to Sweden/Germany even if they decide to burn documents. None of those 37 bus refugees got support from Germany, so they have to return to check-in and keep their benefits.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-baltics-idUSKBN13N0RY

All of Latvia's refugees have fled, around half of Lithuania's. Conditions aren't great, but they get enough support to live and feed their families. Don't expect the country to give better support for refugees than it's own citizens.

 

[E92 M3]

The problem is that not all immigrants are from Syria and there is a disproportionate amount of young men. Germany should focus on accepting as many women and children as possible.

 

[KonradLaw]

It's more like: House Syria is on fire, so understandably the people in it flee and try to find a safe house to stay in. House Sweden is one of the few that decides to let these people in. After a while, though, house Sweden is getting awfully crowded, and the situation is getting unbearable for everyone involved. So we ask if maybe the other 25+ houses on the block could take some of the load. We're not asking you to fill up your house the way we did, only to take your fair share so that the distribution can be more even. None of our houses is on fire.

Yeah..right..except among our neighbours "guests" you will find also of those who rape, set people on fire and mow down people in trucks. So no thank you. You're completely on your own. You need to give up on any forced distribution system because it's pure fantasy at this point. It might have been possible two years ago, but after all the crimes and terror attacks it's utterly impossible today.

Realistically the only solidarity system that I could see getting passed is Nato-like, where each country only has the obligation to spend specified minimum share of their GDP on helping refugees, but has full control over how it spends that money, so it can take refugees in, send money and resources to other countries or just spend that money in camps near Syria

 

[ClosingADoor]

If a POC man is arrested for something, how do you think a headline like this would go down:
"Black man arrested for violent crime".
His race has nothing to do with the crime and including it as part of the "story" would only be for incendiary purposes.

The fact they are refugees has nothing to do with what they did. A group of local scumbags could have done the exact same thing. By including "refugees" as part of the headline then this becomes the focus rather than the crime itself.

"Always"? Tell you what - you do a quick search for "homeless man attacked" and let me know how many headlines you find that report the minority group the attackers belong to. If you find some, I'd be interesting to see which sites they come from. I can probably guess.

You guys seem to conflict my meaning of "belonging to a group" with ethnicity or race. Those are two totally different things. "Refugee" is not a race or minority group. It is simply a description of a persons status.

The story a few days ago started with the news that a group of people attempted to set a homeless man on fire (Dutch news from how it was reported in my country: http://nos.nl/artikel/2150109-dakloze-in-brand-gestoken-in-berlijnse-metro.html). The news now is they have identified the suspects, a development in an ongoing story. And those happen to be refugees, which is now part of the story. The same way it would have been reported if they were American tourists or whatever.

Mentioning a country of origin, belonging to a certain political group, and other things are part of headlines in a lot of cases. "Chinese tourist paints on Egyptian pyramid." "English citizen caught for drug trafficking in Bangkok." "American man killed Italian friend." Those are being reported as such day in and day out.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The problem is that not all immigrants are from Syria and there is a disproportionate amount of young men. Germany should focus on accepting as many women and children as possible.

Saying that "anyone who can make the journey is in" is the worst sort of means testing. At the time I was very disappointed that people thought that it was somehow progressive or high minded.

 

[hodgy100]

How stupid can these idiots be. You've arrived in Germany as refugees and show yourself as a threat to people. Should be a closed book and all of them should be sent back.

jesus christ. no you dont send back millions of people fleeing a war because a minority portion of them are shit.

ive read stories of natives doing similar things and its just as disgusting lets not tar a huge group of people over the actions of a few.

e.g

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-37906896
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/homeless-man-attacked-killed-set-11611389
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/homeless-man-set-fire-horrifying-7085433
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...police-homeless-man-killed-set-fire/93878072/

all of these acts are equally disgusting its just that inevitably this instance will gain a tonne more attention ( all these kinds of stories should have this much attention the date and disrespect directed at the homeless is disgusting ) to further paint asylum seekers and immigrants with the same brush to fue your kind of rhetoric.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Imagine if there where no security cameras though, they would have clean gotten away with it.

 

[hodgy100]

WHY THE FUCK are there so many incidents in Sweden and Germany concerning refugees. Its really, really scary.

Because certain people / entities are trying to push a certain narrative.

 

[RoadHazard]

Yeah..right..except among our neighbours "guests" you will find also of those who rape, set people on fire and mow down people in trucks. So no thank you. You're completely on your own. You need to give up on any forced distribution system because it's pure fantasy at this point. It might have been possible two years ago, but after all the crimes and terror attacks it's utterly impossible today.

Realistically the only solidarity system that I could see getting passed is Nato-like, where each country only has the obligation to spend specified minimum share of their GDP on helping refugees, but has full control over how it spends that money, so it can take refugees in, send money and resources to other countries or just spend that money in camps near Syria

There are bad people among them, sure, but the vast majority obviously behave. Otherwise Sweden and Germany would have been all-out war zones by now. They are not, in case you weren't aware. And neither of these countries has seen more terrorism from refugees (or people pretending to be) than other countries. Germany just had an attack, yes, and that was horrible, but Sweden hasn't had anything major at all. And we've taken in the most people of all countries per capita.

That said, of course there are issues, as I've already said. But they have more to do with us having taken in SO MANY, while other countries don't give a shit. With a more even distribution there would be less issues overall.

 

[hodgy100]

They're not defending them because they're "young", they're defending them because they're refugees. They'd much rather play down the actions of those 6 sick fucks so that they can continue with their "Everything is fine" agenda.

Guess what? I'm 21 and know that setting people on fire is a no-no. Fucking shocker, right?

People arent defending the perpatrators. they have been caught and i hope they feel the full extent of the german law

People are protecting OTHER refugees because they are making wide statements about how now all refugees should be thrown out and "why are all the refugees so bad" which isnt the case at-all there are millions living in peace in germany.

 

[Kinyou]

I hope this means they'll be send back to where they came from but I'm not holding my breath

 

[DerangedHermit]

Lmao. Why the hell is this a thing on foreign/international websites? Shit like this happens all the time, but when a German guy murders his wife or when young German men beat up someone, nobody really gives a fuck. But hey, let's spread more fear of refugees!! It's not like there are over a million of them living peacefully in Germany. Oh wait, there are.

I take it this is your first time with a thread about refugees here in GAF? Ah, don't worry, this is just 'normal'.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

People arent defending the perpatrators. they have been caught and i hope they feel the full extent of the german law

People are protecting OTHER refugees because they are making wide statements about how now all refugees should be thrown out and "why are all the refugees so bad" which isnt the case at-all there are millions living in peace in germany.

I agree completely, but it's obvious when some posters try to downplay it because of their fears that other innocent refugees will be targeted. It's easy to see through the bullshit and doesn't help, just makes them look like they're trying to hide something. "They're children, give them community service" for 21 year olds? Give me a break.

If they were 7 16-21 year old white Americans, those same posters wouldn't say they're children or suggest anything less than inprisonment.

Painting every refugee like this though? Yeah, fuck those idiots.

 

[Breakage]

Damn, Germany has let in some terrible people as a result of their stupid “everybody is welcome” policy.

 

[Sloane]

Damn, Germany has let in some terrible people as a result of their stupid “everybody is welcome” policy.

Yes, totally should have background-checked those 15-year-olds.

 

[segasonic]

Idiots should be parachuted over Aleppo, or better yet Mossul.

 

[Phantast2k]

Yeah..right..except among our neighbours "guests" you will find also of those who rape, set people on fire and mow down people in trucks. So no thank you. You're completely on your own. You need to give up on any forced distribution system because it's pure fantasy at this point. It might have been possible two years ago, but after all the crimes and terror attacks it's utterly impossible today.

Realistically the only solidarity system that I could see getting passed is Nato-like, where each country only has the obligation to spend specified minimum share of their GDP on helping refugees, but has full control over how it spends that money, so it can take refugees in, send money and resources to other countries or just spend that money in camps near Syria

You don't seem to understand how the EU works. Countries like Greece and Italy get flooded with refugees. In face of that, the Dublin regulations were a dangerous policy to uphold. You can't just sit on your ass and wait until the Med countries explode. In the end, Merkel's words have had a minuscule impact on the, already growing, number of refugees, but her actions prevented crises in said countries.

 

[hodgy100]

I agree completely, but it's obvious when some posters try to downplay it because of their fears that other innocent refugees will be targeted. It's easy to see through the bullshit and doesn't help, just makes them look like they're trying to hide something. "They're children, give them community service" for 21 year olds? Give me a break.

If they were 7 16-21 year old white Americans, those same posters wouldn't say they're children or suggest anything less than inprisonment.

Painting every refugee like this though? Yeah, fuck those idiots.

I'm glad we are on the same page regarding not grouping people together.

I agree community service does not cover their actions they need stronger rehabilitation than that. Time inside followed with extensive rehabilitation courses and cultural orienteering should do it.

I will not however that only one poster mentioned using community service as a punishment in this thread and he was shut down by many other posters for the ridiculous suggestion. it jsut seems that your concern for people hand-waving dangerous individuals because they are refugees is a touch overblown (for here at least)

Idiots should be parachuted over Aleppo, or better yet Mossul.

This is execution by proxy. it is against their human rights (criminals still have rights) and it is also one of the EU's laws.

This also ignores that the justice system is for rehabilitation not revenge.

 

[Derwind]

I'm glad the homeless man is alive. I can't imagine how terrifying and painful an assault like that could be.

People like those refugees are especially horrible because it's one thing to ruin your own life by doing crime and such, but because of the already hard political/social climate this fucks over a lot of honest, good people whom happen to also share your refugee status.

 

[KonradLaw]

That said, of course there are issues, as I've already said. But they have more to do with us having taken in SO MANY, while other countries don't give a shit. With a more even distribution there would be less issues overall.

Well..you wanted to take those people in, we don't. I wish we would be helping more, but it's a pipe dream. I live in Poland, few days ago it was our countrmen who was killed in Germany just for terrorist to get his truck. And that homeless man from OP? Polish too. So yeah, sorry, no way anyone who wants to stay in power in Poland is ever going to be taking in any muslim immigrants. Sucks as hell and we might pay for it in the future, when if Russia gets really agressive with Ukraine we might be left alone with refugees from there, but that's just the reality.

And let's be honest, there would be far more issues with those people in Eastern Europe. Even you aren't all that successful at it. And Sweden/Germany are filthy rich, multicultural and tolerant as hell. Here most of them will never be able to find any decent job, because our languages are ten times harder to learn than yours, our society is a lot less tolerant and we have little resources to spare on integrating anyone, The idea that any bigger number of muslims from Syria or Libya would be able to find good life in countries like Poland, Hungary or Slovakia is completely unrealistic. And that's assuming no terror attack or any other big crime would happen here. If a muslim migrant would mow down dozens of people with that truck in Poland the most likely scenario would be a large portion of refugee homes and shelters going up in flames all around the country.

 

[hanspampel]

Because certain people / entities are trying to push a certain narrative.

Because certain people / entities are more likely to do certain bad and criminal stuff

 

[ClosingADoor]

I agree community service does not cover their actions they need stronger rehabilitation than that. Time inside followed with extensive rehabilitation courses and cultural orienteering should do it.

The issue here is, should a country like Germany be on the hook for tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of euros it will take to try and rehabilitate and educate people like this, when they are not their own citizens? Those are resources that could go to people in need who actual deserve it and are not displaying this terrible behavior.

 

[Super_Cobra]

Germany should have put women and children and elderly as priority. Accepting young men so easily just makes the problems even worse.

 

[El Topo]

Because certain people / entities are more likely to do certain bad and criminal stuff

Here is official data (for the first half of 2016 and to some extent earlier) regarding immigration and crime, in case anyone is interested. It is only available in German.
https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInfor...riminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung_node.html

 

[Stallion Dan]

It just occured to me, but wait, there are homeless people in germany? How? They have like a ton of refugees that I assume they house and provide for? How come there are homeless people?

If it anything like UK asylum seekers etc get more benefits and priority on housing etc than the people born here.

 

[CSJ]

For a moment think about what a victim or family of a victim in any situation involving a refugee/immigrant may feel. While it's knee-jerk, in their minds it wouldn't have happened had they not been let in and that's where some of the intolerance and hate comes from.

 

[kmax]

Actions have consequences. What Germany has done taking in refugees as it has is remarkable, but some people will always demonstrate that they have no intention of integrating into the country that gave them a chance to start a new life.

Refugees need to understand that they're given a chance and should show thus show gratitude accordingly. Fortunately, most are doing so, but there are some who do the opposite. This right here is a clear case of which deportation is viable, if not necessary.

 

[RoadHazard]

Well..you wanted to take those people in, we don't. I wish we would be helping more, but it's a pipe dream. I live in Poland, few days ago it was our countrmen who was killed in Germany just for terrorist to get his truck. And that homeless man from OP? Polish too. So yeah, sorry, no way anyone who wants to stay in power in Poland is ever going to be taking in any muslim immigrants. Sucks as hell and we might pay for it in the future, when if Russia gets really agressive with Ukraine we might be left alone with refugees from there, but that's just the reality.

And let's be honest, there would be far more issues with those people in Eastern Europe. Even you aren't all that successful at it. And Sweden/Germany are filthy rich, multicultural and tolerant as hell. Here most of them will never be able to find any decent job, because our languages are ten times harder to learn than yours, our society is a lot less tolerant and we have little resources to spare on integrating anyone, The idea that any bigger number of muslims from Syria or Libya would be able to find good life in countries like Poland, Hungary or Slovakia is completely unrealistic. And that's assuming no terror attack or any other big crime would happen here. If a muslim migrant would mow down dozens of people with that truck in Poland the most likely scenario would be a large portion of refugee homes and shelters going up in flames all around the country.

They don't find jobs here either. The vast majority are jobless, and remain outside society for many years, if they EVER get their foot in. We also don't have proper housing for most of them, etc. That's not a problem unique to Eastern Europe, even if it might be even worse there. As for being able to find a "good life"... well, I'm sure it would be better than being dead in Syria.

Poland also isn't a bad country. It's certainly much better off than some others to the east. I've been there (Gdansk), was very nice. But I realize I mostly saw the best of the country, and very little of what's not as good, of course.

 

[Wrestlemania]

If it anything like UK asylum seekers etc get more benefits and priority on housing etc than the people born here.

This is not true.

 

[Phantast2k]

If it anything like UK asylum seekers etc get more benefits and priority on housing etc than the people born here.

You’ll be able to collect money from a local post office each week. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.

You’ll get £36.95 for each person in your household.

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

Balling.

 

[deli2000]

If it anything like UK asylum seekers etc get more benefits and priority on housing etc than the people born here.

Is that even remotely true? I'd like to see a source for this. It's a pretty hefty claim.

 

[RoadHazard]

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

Balling.

But that's in addition to having housing provided for you, yes? Otherwise I don't understand how you could live on that.

But yeah, it's not a lot either way.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Come from a war zone, get help in Germany, and then repay that by trying to literally murder someone. Lock them up, and no possibility for asylum anymore.

There are worse of these kinds of examples like:

Somali rapist living in the UK avoided deportation because he didn't know that rape is unaccaptable and then went on to rape two more women after being released from prison.

 

[Wrestlemania]

But that's in addition to having housing provided for you, yes? Otherwise I don't understand how you could live on that.

But yeah, it's not a lot either way.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/webfm_send/723

How come asylum seekers and refugees get priority access to housing and benefits, i.e. get put above British people on the council housing list.

They do not. Asylum-seekers do not have access to council housing or to social security benefits. If an asylum-seeker is recognised to be a refugee, they will be granted refugee leave (permission to remain in the UK) and then may be entitled to council housing and/or social security benefits on the basis of the very same criteria as British citizens. Asylum-seekers, whose asylum claims or appeals remain outstanding, can (if they would otherwise be destitute and homeless) receive accommodation and support from the Home Office at rates substantially below that for social security. Most asylum-seekers access this support because they are not permitted to work in the UK, so cannot support themselves. Refused asylum-seekers may be entitled to some support from the Home Office if they are for the time being unable to return to their country of origin/nationality.

 

[Phantast2k]

But that's in addition to having housing provided for you, yes? Otherwise I don't understand how you could live on that.

But yeah, it's not a lot either way.

Yeah + health care. I was meaning to google regular jobless benefits too in order to contrast them, but this weekly payment alone makes it seem like the poster is lying.

/beaten

 

[Breakage]

Yes, totally should have background-checked those 15-year-olds.

I think what people find hard to accept is that there are people who seek refuge in a safe country with the intention of causing harm to its society. People find that hard to believe because they are endlessly bombarded with the "desparate refugees" narrative so they presume everyone coming in will be grateful,kind and ready to integrate.
People can't entertain the idea that people seeking refuge are capable of lying and exploiting the goodwill of the country taking them in.
Giving such people the benefit of the doubt and waving them thru might be well-meaning, but it is a security risk. No one knows don't what they've done or who they really are.
It's remarkable that such an advanced nation would take such a casual approach to the kinds of people they let in.
Are incidents like this all that surprising?

 

[hodgy100]

Because certain people / entities are more likely to do certain bad and criminal stuff

well yeah but thats due all sorts of factors. Like perhaps, metal illness caused from fleeing a war? a different culture that means they have different values and morals to us. But these thigns can be changed mental health care or courses to teach our culture and what is / isnt acceptable.

But even then people will commit crime you wont rid the world of all crime you can only mitigate it.

The issue here is, should a country like Germany be on the hook for tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of euros it will take to try and rehabilitate and educate people like this, when they are not their own citizens? Those are resources that could go to people in need who actual deserve it and are not displaying this terrible behavior.

I agree that the cost and burden should be spread across all EU member states.

 

[Stallion Dan]

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

Balling.

There is much more. My aunt in law dealt with it for a living.

For example get vouchers for high Street shops for clothing etc. Skipping to head of queue in council housing (outside of those with children) they can also receive a 15k startup for a business, they need pay it back unless the business fails in which case the debt is just ignored. They stopped the latter recently as too many just took the money and intentionally tanked the business while pocketing cash.


Edit: Way council housing works just being a refugee scores them more points and puts the ahead of most single people born here.

 

[ISOM]

WHY THE FUCK are there so many incidents in Sweden and Germany concerning refugees. Its really, really scary.

You're being overdramatic. Refugees aren't forming roving gangs and terrorizing the country. You get bad apples in all groups, just refugees are the biggest newstory because of their situation.

 

[hodgy100]

There is much more. My aunt in law dealt with it for a living.

For example get vouchers for high Street shops for clothing etc. Skipping to head of queue in council housing (outside of those with children) they can also receive a 15k startup for a business, they need pay it back unless the business fails in which case the debt is just ignored. They stopped the latter recently as too many just took the money and intentionally tanked the business while pocketing cash.


Edit: Way council housing works just being a refugee scores them more points and puts the ahead of most single people born here.

citation needed. and even if you say is true the bolded sounds like a loophole that has been rightly closed. i dont object to them recieving vouchers for clothing (people need clothing) and being a refugee will net you so many "points" in our council housing system because its unlikely they have anywhere else to go so it is a more urgent cause. i imagine someone would have to fit into multiple boxes to be prioritised over a refugee e.g homeless single parent with no family to stay with.

 

[panty]

Neogaf REALLY needs new policies on posting threads related to news articles. We have the thread full of people who didn't read anything and are suddenly experts, spouting out ignorant shit.

Nice edit there champ. You can show yourself out.

 

[hanspampel]

Here is official data (for the first half of 2016 and to some extent earlier) regarding immigration and crime, in case anyone is interested. It is only available in German.
https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInfor...riminalitaetImKontextVonZuwanderung_node.html

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikat...7BC100E361387B3DD.cae2?__blob=publicationFile
this is important context, too
but sadly old 2014 data. the new 2017 version should update that to 2015

 

[Sloane]

I think what people find hard to accept is that there are people who seek refuge in a safe country with the intention of causing harm to its society. People find that hard to believe because they are endlessly bombarded with the "desparate refugees" narrative so they presume everyone coming in will be grateful,kind and ready to integrate.

They are not surprising but they are also very, very rare as shown by the BKA numbers linked above. I get that it seems ungrateful but is 15- to 20-year-olds acting stupid really what refugees "in general" should be measured by?

 

[Darth Ghandi]

I think people should understand that refugees are just like most people.
Most are good, a few aren't.
If the question is why we shouldn't send them back the answer is they still have rights.
But we must remeber that countries like Germany have the right to send them back in certain cases.

 

[Shiggy]

well yeah but thats due all sorts of factors. Like perhaps, metal illness caused from fleeing a war? a different culture that means they have different values and morals to us. But these thigns can be changed mental health care or courses to teach our culture and what is / isnt acceptable.

But even then people will commit crime you wont rid the world of all crime you can only mitigate it.

I think you are overly optimistic here. Germany has quite an issue with criminality from people with an Arab/Maghreb background. They laugh about the police and judges. There's reason to doubt they'd take such courses serious. In fact, judges often let them do community service instead of sending them to jail, yet after some time they commit new crimes.

Such courses might work for those who are somewhat related to the generally accepted values in Germany, not for those who simply don't care about those and those who prefer staying in their milieu.

If you understand German, this documentary is quite insightful:
http://www.spiegel.de/sptv/spiegelt...minelle-araber-clans-in-berlin-a-1125572.html

 

[DerangedHermit]

Because certain people / entities are more likely to do certain bad and criminal stuff

Yep, just like black people in America, amirite!?

 

[justjohn]

I'm sorry but Merkel needs to be removed for what she's done. This is all her fault.

 

[TM94]

Deport them immediately, only option that makes sense.