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[Prinz Eugn]

I'm not one to care much about aesthetics- my issue with the art design is there are way too many instances where Form was chosen over function.

Overly complex geometry where crevices shield opponents from grenade/rocket damage. Ankle high lips and railings the inexplicable hamper movement. Sightlines disrupted by random accents like wires and vines. Blinding light sources.

Then there's the washed out color pallet, which disrupts the design language used to communicate different enemy types.

Then there's stuff like Smart-scope and weapons profiles that look to similar.

I preferred Bungie's old style... but I really don't care about style. I do care about how artistic choices disrupt gameplay (they shouldn't)

The map geometry in this game is super awful, especially in Arena. It makes me appreciate the Forge maps in Big Team, and how sad is that?

Arbitrary aesthetic choices have been a serious issue with 343i design. The visuals are too disconnected from the gameplay. If it looks cool, they often throw it in without doing much thinking about how the visuals can help or hinder players.

One of the first things I noticed in Halo 4 was that the Storm Rifle is not that easy to tell apart from the Carbine in profile. The decision to replace the Plasma Rifle remains intensely mystifying. The Light Rifle looked waaaay too much like the Binary Rifle, too. And it's not like they're impossible to tell apart, it's that it's too hard when you are under any cognitive load, like avoiding getting killed in a video game.

It went beyond weapons, too. The Promethean Knight classes were not distinguishable. I think I had to fight the highest tier one before I finally noticed that oh, they have marginally different amounts of orange glow.

Haven, one of the better maps, was super hard to call out on since the map is geometrically symmetric and the whole thing was the same goddamn color. "They're in... silver?"

In Halo 5 this tradition continues. Warzone vehicles are especially bad. Is that a Banshee or Ultra Banshee? Is that an ONI Mantis, a Corp Mantis, or a Mantis Mantis? Warthog or ONI Warthog? I guess you'll find out once they start sho- aaaand you're dead.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Pretty sure those ankle high ledges are by design. Stops players thrusting/dropping off a ledge as soon as they're shot.

Perhaps, but in so many key positions there aren't obstacles preventing thrusting.

Also, like Trup said... It's inconsistent at best. The maps feel messy and there are so many times my spartan gets inexplicably caught on random props you can't see unless you look directly down. Contrast this with Destiny, where the maps look more exotic and beautiful, but are cleanly navigated (mostly).

And I agree on the Sanghelios art. It's beautiful, but severely underutilized =(
That was the one place (aside from Genesis) that felt like a Halo adventure.

The map geometry in this game is super awful, especially in Arena. It makes me appreciate the Forge maps in Big Team, and how sad is that?

Arbitrary aesthetic choices have been a serious issue with 343i design. The visuals are too disconnected from the gameplay. If it looks cool, they often throw it in without doing much thinking about how the visuals can help or hinder players.

One of the first things I noticed in Halo 4 was that the Storm Rifle is not that easy to tell apart from the Carbine in profile. The decision to replace the Plasma Rifle remains intensely mystifying. The Light Rifle looked waaaay too much like the Binary Rifle, too. And it's not like they're impossible to tell apart, it's that it's too hard when you are under any cognitive load, like avoiding getting killed in a video game.

It went beyond weapons, too. The Promethean Knight classes were not distinguishable. I think I had to fight the highest tier one before I finally noticed that oh, they have marginally different amounts of orange glow.

Haven, one of the better maps, was super hard to call out on since the map is geometrically symmetric and the whole thing was the same goddamn color. "They're in... silver?"

In Halo 5 this tradition continues. Warzone vehicles are especially bad. Is that a Banshee or Ultra Banshee? Is that an ONI Mantis, a Corp Mantis, or a Mantis Mantis? Warthog or ONI Warthog? I guess you'll find out once they start sho- aaaand you're dead.

This post makes me happy. Great post.

 

[Madness]

E3 briefing for MS tomorrow. Can't wait to see Scorpio and the games. Plus whatever Halo has in store. They mentioned seeing it in 4K on the Xbox One. But do I have to install any sort of app? I never installed their XLE app for live events etc.

 

[op_ivy]

E3 briefing for MS tomorrow. Can't wait to see Scorpio and the games. Plus whatever Halo has in store. They mentioned seeing it in 4K on the Xbox One. But do I have to install any sort of app? I never installed their XLE app for live events etc.

Mixer, which is part of the is now (formerly beam)

 

[Fuchsdh]

Mixer, which is part of the is now (formerly beam)

They're apparently giving away free stuff if you watch via Mixer as well, so might as well create an account (you can use your MS credentials) and do it.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Eww. You guys talking about progression systems, skins, reqs, and loot in Halo is not going to solve any problems we have. Smells like desperation.

Focusing on what other games have and trying to milk it into Halo is the reason for Halo's demise in the first place.

Halo needs to be distinct and refreshing. A trend setter, not a follower. That's the spirit of Halo.

Fahz is right. Loot systems only work if the base game is already good and compelling to play on its own merit. I'm fine with Halo 5's req system to be honest. If the game had more desirable armor customizations that would help more too. Really I think 343 needs to fix the network issues for one. Thats a turn off even for the people who love halo 5. People who are trying it out for the first time will never come back. Also, can't stress this enough, the maps have to be better. They need to be visually awe inspiring and play well. Right now most of the maps are super industrial and highly convoluted. Truth might be the best map in Halo 5 and it is because it looks cool and is very simply designed. I want to feel like I'm in other worlds, not earth. Gotta get back to the ancient ruins, covenant themes, and beach front/vegetation style maps. Forge maps just aren't good enough. BTB needs to be good again with pistol starts.

What if at E3 we found out the reason we aren't hearing anything about Halo 6 is because Halo 5 is getting a big expansion. New interface/UI, fixed network, new campaign, new maps, and missing gametypes like king of the hill and juggernaut. I'd be okay with that. And it's not considered the next big entry to the series because the engine is exactly the same. Destiny has been doing it. Why not Halo?

 

[Cranster]

I'm not one to care much about aesthetics- my issue with the art design is there are way too many instances where Form was chosen over function.

Overly complex geometry where crevices shield opponents from grenade/rocket damage. Ankle high lips and railings the inexplicable hamper movement. Sightlines disrupted by random accents like wires and vines. Blinding light sources.

Then there's the washed out color pallet, which disrupts the design language used to communicate different enemy types.

Then there's stuff like Smart-scope and weapons profiles that look to similar.

I preferred Bungie's old style... but I really don't care about style. I do care about how artistic choices disrupt gameplay (they shouldn't)

I have to agree. Those things need to be fixed. Again though they do need to bring back old pelican/phantom designs aswell as the Bungie era, Elites, Jackals and Grunts. Let alone look at Halo: Reach when it comes to armor design.

 

[Karl2177]

So we know that there's a Halo tease tomorrow. What's the bets on what it is? Halo Gravefake, Master Chief Correction, Halo 3 Anniversary, HW2 or H5G dlc?

 

[Fuchsdh]

H5 Scorpio patch and HW2 campaign I would expect (I assume Halo 5 would be shown off on Scorpio but given it's an old game I don't imagine they'll focus on it too much.)

 

[Poodlestrike]

So we know that there's a Halo tease tomorrow. What's the bets on what it is? Halo Gravefake, Master Chief Correction, Halo 3 Anniversary, HW2 or H5G dlc?

HW2 and an H5 update.

I'm pretty sure that Gravemind is fake.

 

[Trup1aya]

Man, I'd be cool with a big H5 expansion, but it would HAVE to come with a serious reduction in size. There's no reason a single game should be over 100gigs. It's absolute nonsense.

I've heard it has to do with multiple language audio or something. If it is, let me delete the stuff I don't need. Does anyone have a clue why the game is so massive?

Edit: I just found an old article, where Kevin Franklin was explaining the large size at launch (46gigs), and said it was due to all the customization options from the req system- but there are other games with similar amounts of similar content that don't have these issues. He also said the large number of maps was partially to blame :kappa:

 

[TCKaos]

Edit: I just found an old article, where Kevin Franklin was explaining the large size at launch (46gigs), and said it was due to all the customization options from the req system- but there are other games with similar amounts of similar content that don't have these issues. He also said the large number of maps was partially to blame :kappa:

Absolutely no way that it's the REQ system, unless they're really really absurdly inefficient. The assets are shared between the weapons - so the Recon Scope, Long Scope, Sentinel Scope, suppressor, sound dampener, and all that? Those are all a common pool of assets that the game loads when necessary. That is to say that there's no "Long Scope Assault Rifle" model and "Recon Scope Assault Rifle" model, it's just the Assault Rifle model that has a tactical rail that has the separate asset for the optic attached to it.

Then there's the fact that 99% of REQs are texture modifications and/or minor model modifications with scripting differences. So there shouldn't be a Railgun model and an Arclight model and a Whiplash model, just the Railgun with different textures. Those should take up relatively little space with any compression at all - and they have to be compressed somehow, right? It's not like we've got 4K textures or some shit. This game has a lot of content, but not 3 Destinys, or 5 Titanfalls, or two Titanfall 2s, or 4 MGSVs, or two Battlefield 1s worth of content.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Hoping for some surprises.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Halo MCC PC.

 

[Trup1aya]

Absolutely no way that it's the REQ system, unless they're really really absurdly inefficient. The assets are shared between the weapons - so the Recon Scope, Long Scope, Sentinel Scope, suppressor, sound dampener, and all that? Those are all a common pool of assets that the game loads when necessary. That is to say that there's no "Long Scope Assault Rifle" model and "Recon Scope Assault Rifle" model, it's just the Assault Rifle model that has a tactical rail that has the separate asset for the optic attached to it.

Then there's the fact that 99% of REQs are texture modifications and/or minor model modifications with scripting differences. So there shouldn't be a Railgun model and an Arclight model and a Whiplash model, just the Railgun with different textures. Those should take up relatively little space with any compression at all - and they have to be compressed somehow, right? It's not like we've got 4K textures or some shit. This game has a lot of content, but not 3 Destinys, or 5 Titanfalls, or two Titanfall 2s, or 4 MGSVs, or two Battlefield 1s worth of content.

This is my thinking as well. It's just crazy that it has ballooned from 46gb (which is already huge) to over 90gb and we've just had some weapon skins, armore, a handful of maps (which reuse a bunch of assets), and forge. It's gotta be Forge then, right?

 

[Akai__]

Man, I'd be cool with a big H5 expansion, but it would HAVE to come with a serious reduction in size. There's no reason a single game should be over 100gigs. It's absolute nonsense.

I've heard it has to do with multiple language audio or something. If it is, let me delete the stuff I don't need. Does anyone have a clue why the game is so massive?

Yep. The H5 PC version has ~10GB worth of audio files that you can safely delete. Which means, if you are rocking one language, you would end up with a ~22GB version of Halo 5 Arena MP + Forge mode.

Now, we obviously don't know how much audio files there are for Warzone or Campaign, but assuming they are in a similiar range, you could cut an other worthwile amount of GB's from the game. I strongly believe that games should ask you what language you want to install. Every other language should be treated as DLC and should have it's own section under the "Manage Game" tab. Then, besides language, you should also be able to install/deinstall seperate modes like Campaign.

At GDC 2017, MS actually talked about how this is possible. The UWP API allows for a complete control of shared, not shared and downloadable packages, but nobody is really using it.

I asked David Ellis about file size not too long ago. He told me that 343i is having conversations about file sizes, so there is at least some hope. But somehow I doubt that it will be a priority.

 

[Fata1moose]

Halo MCC PC.

I'd want this if achievements carry over. I don't want to do all of them again. I only have 20 or so left.

 

[AlStrong]

I strongly believe that games should ask you what language you want to install. Every other language should be treated as DLC and should have it's own section under the "Manage Game" tab. Then, besides language, you should also be able to install/deinstall seperate modes like Campaign.

They should add an alien language pack like the Galaxy Quest dvd (even if it's just "wort wort wort" the entire time, just said by the different voice actors).

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'd want this if achievements carry over. I don't want to do all of them again. I only have 20 or so left.

Only 2 left. ODST LASO (ehhh) and then H2 sub 3 hours (ugh.)

Finally finished the first two ODST missions LASO. Now I've got Kizingo. Things be rough.

For H2 you basically have to do the god launch on Regret for enough time. That's going to be hell, and I've still got to go back and improve my time on Gravemind.

 

[Fata1moose]

I have all the speed runs done, just have LASO and random "complete x amount of playlists" left.

 

[Trup1aya]

Yep. The H5 PC version has ~10GB worth of audio files that you can safely delete. Which means, if you are rocking one language, you would end up with a ~22GB version of Halo 5 Arena MP + Forge mode.



Now, we obviously don't know how much audio files there are for Warzone or Campaign, but assuming they are in a similiar range, you could cut an other worthwile amount of GB's from the game. I strongly believe that games should ask you what language you want to install. Every other language should be treated as DLC and should have it's own section under the "Manage Game" tab. Then, besides language, you should also be able to install/deinstall seperate modes like Campaign.

At GDC 2017, MS actually talked about how this is possible. The UWP API allows for a complete control of shared, not shared and downloadable packages, but nobody is really using it.

I asked David Ellis about file size not too long ago. He told me that 343i is having conversations about file sizes, so there is at least some hope. But somehow I doubt that it will be a priority.

Wow. So that explains why the base game was so large (46gb) but it doesn't really explain why the expansions have doubled the size of the game. It also doesnt explain why this problem is so unique to halo. There's some other funkiness going on as well.

Allowing people to choose their language to install is a must going forward.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Yeah, if the multi-language audio tracks take up THAT much space, being able to just pick and choose is a really obvious step.

The filesize doesn't really bother me, but it's definitely baffling. Wasn't there something a while back about them not using permutations for the REQs, so each one was its own unique model in the file system (rather than combining them, so you'd have one BR with separate scopes that get combined at the last minute)? I recall reading that somewhere. That'd explain a lot of the added data.

 

[Fata1moose]

If they were going to do something about the file size, you'd think they'd have a solution for the launch of Xbox Game Pass.

 

[Trup1aya]

Yeah, if the multi-language audio tracks take up THAT much space, being able to just pick and choose is a really obvious step.

The filesize doesn't really bother me, but it's definitely baffling. Wasn't there something a while back about them not using permutations for the REQs, so each one was its own unique model in the file system (rather than combining them, so you'd have one BR with separate scopes that get combined at the last minute)? I recall reading that somewhere. That'd explain a lot of the added data.

It hasn't gotten to a point that out bothers me because i dont play much else, but it has to be off putting to people who want to try it out.

Imagine renting or borrowing H5, then having to download 45 gigs in addition to what's on the disc.

I bet it hampers how many try it on gamepass. And it limits their options with respect to trial versions.

 

[Poodlestrike]

It hasn't gotten to a point that out bothers me because i dont play much else, but it has to be off putting to people who want to try it out.

Imagine renting or borrowing H5, then having to download 45 gigs in addition to what's on the disc.

I bet it hampers how many try it on gamepass. And it limits their options with respect to trial versions.

Very true. Smaller filesize should be a goal going forward.

 

[Fata1moose]

No Halo 5 or MCC update? No Xbox One X for me.

 

[Woorloog]

Wasn't there supposed to be something about Halo at MS conference? It hasn't ended yet but... Still wondering.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Wasn't there supposed to be something about Halo at MS conference? It hasn't ended yet but... Still wondering.

Last we'd heard, no. Doesn't seem like there will be either.

 

[_Aaron_]

Nothing.

 

[Woorloog]

Last we'd heard, no. Doesn't seem like there will be either.

Not that Halo would've saved this conference. For me that is, don't know what others think. Never felt so apathetic about a E3 conference (i missed the EA one, i wonder if it would've been worse Star Wars aside).

Back to slumbering until some game catches my attention. Or there's news about Halo.

 

[Garrett 2U]

I thought there was supposed to be a Halo tease of some kind?

 

[Trup1aya]

I thought there was supposed to be a Halo tease of some kind?

Halo wars 2 4K update :kappa:

 

[Rtas]

Stinkles, wheres that small something you guys said you'd be showing off?

Was expecting bonnie to show up and save the day on the conference

 

[Trup1aya]

All I wanted was a H5 Scorpio patch and a Crackdown demonstration...

 

[Nowise10]

4K update for Halo Wars 2 isn't even classified as "a little something". I was expecting Firefight update for Halo 5 type small.
What a shame.

 

[Poodlestrike]

4K update for Halo Wars 2 isn't even classified as "a little something". I was expecting Firefight update for Halo 5 type small.
What a shame.

Firefight for Halo 5 wasn't that small, IMO. Wasn't everyone saying that it was impossible at launch?

But yeah, Halo Wars 2 4k update is even smaller than I was expecting lol. If they're doing an early beta again, they'll have to announce something Halo 6 related by the end of the year... Game Awards, maybe?

Could be they talk about some more H5 stuff at Gamescom too, but I kinda doubt it.

 

[Woorloog]

By the way, whatever happened to that Halo TV series? Quietly canned? (Just like happened with Star Wars: Underworld.)

 

[Poodlestrike]

By the way, whatever happened to that Halo TV series? Quietly canned? (Just like happened with Star Wars: Underworld.)

Every time anybody asks they say it's still coming, but at this point I'd say we should assume dead until proven otherwise.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

4K update for Halo Wars 2 isn't even classified as "a little something". I was expecting Firefight update for Halo 5 type small.
What a shame.

Yeah, this wasn't close to setting expectations properly. In the past, teases like that lead to actual reveals. Maybe plans changed, I dunno.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Microsoft is gonna be at the pc conference so maybe something there?

 

[Woorloog]

Microsoft is gonna be at the pc conference so maybe something there?

Don't get my expectations up, please.

Halo Wars 2 related stuff as part of the PC show might be plausible though. Is HW2 coming to Steam as well?

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

By the way, whatever happened to that Halo TV series? Quietly canned? (Just like happened with Star Wars: Underworld.)

After my own rant it appears it's just on Steven Slowberg pace but still in production.

 

[kosmologi]

Nothing.

Yeah, sad day. Halo 3 anniversary this year and all...

(not that I was expecting a H3A or anything)

 

[Poodlestrike]

Don't get my expectations up, please.

Halo Wars 2 related stuff as part of the PC show might be plausible though. Is HW2 coming to Steam as well?

Didn't it get announced at the PC conference? I could see it tbh.

 

[nillapuddin]

Okay, as I wrap my head around this

This fall is the 10 year anniversary of HALO 3

I get that H3A might not be equitable or reasonable at the moment, I can put my big boy pants on and understand.

So lets launch a Halo 3 inspired playlist with great remakes to honor the game, but keep our player base together, I totally get it.

Halo 5 is monetized, no other Halo game is, and you cant put Micro-transactions into a campaign remake of a game, you also cant patch it into MCC because the uncertainty and shakiness of that games performance, cant risk obtaining even more negative mindshare. Again, I get it.


So Halo 5 playlist = good
But where are the players? (playing other games)

You know what would be a great incentive to get people back?

For starters, Put the game in Game Pass (Done, excellent idea) now Give new Scorpio owners a reason to boot up the game just to see the enhancements, run around Sanghelios in campaign for a few minutes, remember how good the movement feels.. maybe they drop into some multiplayer, remember they love the game and even buy a single req pack. Success.


Instead they are gunna send a playlist out to die at a limited playerbase while everyone has either moved on to other games or only wants to show off their new hardware with newer prettier games.


I thought H5 4K was such an absolute slam dunk shoe-in no-brainer that I hadn't even bothered to consider what would happen if they didn't, I really believe this was a huge missed opportunity to get back a sliver of population (not bringing the game back to life mind you) for a short time, honor Halo 3, hopefully sell a few more req packs than they normally would have, and let the game die on a high note as we wait another year for Halo 6.

Now I understand this Fall (like every Fall) is jammed pack of games and people might not make time for Halo anyways, but ya know how you can 100% guarantee they wont make time for it, give them almost no reason to. That's what 343 has done.

This whole time I bought my 4k OLED HDR TV Ive been sitting here thinking, "man, cant wait to check out all this 343 Rock Porn when I get scorpio" Now Ill just be looking at actual porn Destiny 2, Battlefront 2, PUBG and who knows if I will even drop in. I'm not mad or upset, just a bit disappointed.

 

[NOKYARD]

Okay, as I wrap my head around this

This fall is the 10 year anniversary of HALO 3

I get that H3A might not be equitable or reasonable at the moment, I can put my big boy pants on and understand.

So lets launch a Halo 3 inspired playlist with great remakes to honor the game, but keep our player base together, I totally get it.

Halo 5 is monetized, no other Halo game is, and you cant put Micro-transactions into a campaign remake of a game, you also cant patch it into MCC because the uncertainty and shakiness of that games performance, cant risk obtaining even more negative mindshare. Again, I get it.


So Halo 5 playlist = good
But where are the players? (playing other games)

You know what would be a great incentive to get people back?

For starters, Put the game in Game Pass (Done, excellent idea) now Give new Scorpio owners a reason to boot up the game just to see the enhancements, run around Sanghelios in campaign for a few minutes, remember how good the movement feels.. maybe they drop into some multiplayer, remember they love the game and even buy a single req pack. Success.


Instead they are gunna send a playlist out to die at a limited playerbase while everyone has either moved on to other games or only wants to show off their new hardware with newer prettier games.


I thought H5 4K was such an absolute slam dunk shoe-in no-brainer that I hadn't even bothered to consider what would happen if they didn't, I really believe this was a huge missed opportunity to get back a sliver of population (not bringing the game back to life mind you) for a short time, honor Halo 3, hopefully sell a few more req packs than they normally would have, and let the game die on a high note as we wait another year for Halo 6.

Now I understand this Fall (like every Fall) is jammed pack of games and people might not make time for Halo anyways, but ya know how you can 100% guarantee they wont make time for it, give them almost no reason to. That's what 343 has done.

This whole time I bought my 4k OLED HDR TV Ive been sitting here thinking, "man, cant wait to check out all this 343 Rock Porn when I get scorpio" Now Ill just be looking at actual porn Destiny 2, Battlefront 2, PUBG and who knows if I will even drop in. I'm not mad or upset, just a bit disappointed.

I read all of that, in your voice, with your jaw still wired shut.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Huh, did we get confirmation of no 4k update? I know it wasn't at the show, but it's such a no-brainer I assumed that it just got passed over for some reason.

Also I read somewhere that the Warfleet book was off, but it turns out it's coming out September 5 so that's nice.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

It's a shame there is no anniversary treatment for Halo 3, but me and a friend just did a couch co-op play through of the campaign to celebrate.

So many good memories, and fun moments in that campaign.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

It's a shame there is no anniversary treatment for Halo 3, but me and a friend just did a couch co-op play through of the campaign to celebrate.

So many good memories, and fun moments in that campaign.

My brother and I played through some of Halo 3 campaign and had a blast. I miss Halo =(

 

[nillapuddin]

I read all of that, in your voice, with your jaw still wired shut.

I do not appreciate that one bit

(youre still reading it that way aren't you)

damnit.

I DEMAND TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!