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[Mr.Phoenix]

Right, and consoles are offloading this to publishers too just like PC. It's basically dev dependent. Sony ain't giving money to Ubisoft to run Division servers nor are they hosting servers for that.

So why is it free on PC.

Its free on PC, because the PC gaming model has nothing to do with consoles. This is not that complicated.

On PC, you have first and foremost an open platform, and then a developer, who decided to make a storefront for all games on the PC. Now they are so successful just selling everyone else's stuff, that they do not bother making games anymore. That should tell you everything you need to know.

But if it doesn't...

On consoles, you have a platform holder, that more times than not, makes hardware that they sell at as much as a $100 loss right off the bat. Sometimes even more. What that means is that from the jump, their business model has to prioritize how to make that money back, trust me, anyone making or releasing subsidized hardware will have a similar focus. So they do everything to make money from a worst-case scenario perspective. Charge royalties on games released for the platform, sell accessories for the platform at over double the price of what it cost to make them, and charge for something they know the majority of their audience would need (so even if you are one of those gamers that only ever buys the one game eg COD or FIFA; and believe me they exist, they would still make money off you because now they have you paying to play online)....etc.

Again, it's not an ideal scenario, but I can understand why they do it.

 

[Wildebeest]

The things like online and persistent user profiles are the whole point of steam. It was made in response to the time when Counter-Strike MP was totally open and decentralised and internet cafes were using pirate cd keys.

 

[IDKFA]

As others have said, the main reason is because PC is an open system. If Valve started charging for online play, people would just migrate over to another store.

You can't do that on a console where you're locked into a single ecosystem.

 

[Ozriel]

Xbox offers free cloud saves. I suspect paid online is here to stay for all console makers since it makes them quite a significant amount of money.

Valve most probably has lower expenses. Console makers lose on hardware, have more repair and return related expenses, spend much more on marketing and have to sustain a bigger employee base.

The console makers could stand to learn a lot from Valve, but there are definitely mitigating reasons why things are this way

 

[Bernoulli]

because steam is only a launcher that takes 30% for every game that they don't even make, consoles are made with no profit and they need to design the hardware, software and all the tools to make it work

 

[hemo memo]

The gaming console companies function as a cartel.

This right here.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I couldnt care less about the 30% cut as a consumer, I honestly dont give a single fuck about it. If your game is not on Steam I'm not going to buy it, simple as

30% is also more nuanced



Valve takes 0% if you sell steam keys, with the caveat that you cannot undercut the price on steam (duh)

 

[ArtHands]

30% is also more nuanced



Valve takes 0% if you sell steam keys, with the caveat that you cannot undercut the price on steam (duh)

And consoles take 30% from 3rd party publishers no matter what.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Because Valve isn't subsidizing your €2000 gaming PC.

 

[64bitmodels]

Moreover, how can Valve do all of this for free on a platform where piracy is completely rampant and still be able to offer discounts, mod support via workshop and so much more?

If Piracy was rampant on PC, Valve would still reguarly be making games.

Steam is popular because even with piracy, they offered a service better than it.

Good PC (to emulate Nintendo+gamepass+steam+free epic games++) and PS5 (for PS4/PS5 exclusives and PS+Premium) is the way

PC and steam deck for portability

 

[ReyBrujo]

Players pay for those saves by buying games they never play.

 

[64bitmodels]

We don't want or need them to host any servers outside of those for the games they publish.

Even then this is already pretty unnecessary as hosting your own servers for online games has been the far superior solution for years that companies choose to neglect for some reason

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Valve makes money from all the devs that need (read: are forced) to release on their platform.

Their profit margins are generated from hardware and operating system platforms they do not have to develop or maintain “in general”.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

All this arguing because??…. Even in this convo you guys want to console war. The answer is simple.

Because they can and if you want to play online on console your gonna have to bend over and take it just like a 100 million plus are doing at this very moment in time.

There’s no secret enigma to it

 

[LakeOf9]

Because PC gaming is superior and console gaming is a scam

 

[Topher]

Agree with the OP. Particularly when it comes to cloud saves. That should be part of the base functionality of every console.

Valve makes money from all the devs that need (read: are forced) to release on their platform.

Their profit margins are generated from hardware and operating system platforms they do not have to develop or maintain “in general”.

If devs are "forced" to release on Steam then how is it EGS exclusives exist?

 

[rodrigolfp]

You can play 1st party Playstation and Xbox online games like Helldivers and Halo on PC, but not 1st party Nintendo online games like Splatoon 2

You can. With superior graphics, performance, controls and free online.

 

[ManaByte]

You can. With superior graphics, performance, controls and free online.

He was talking about legally, not pirating.

 

[Schmendrick]

 

[Astray]

They don't subsidize hardware at all. That's a major, major cost. They also have almost zero physical distribution compared to Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft.

You might be saving on cloud saves free online etc, but you will likely have to pay more for the hardware compared to consoles.

The overall PC gaming experience, while vastly improved, also just isn't as smooth sailing as consoles are.

 

[rodrigolfp]

He was talking about legally, not pirating.

As your slow brain doesn't know, you can play like that without pirating.

 

[ManaByte]

As your slow brain doesn't know, you can play like that without pirating.

Please provide pictures and videos of you legally ripping your owned copy of Splatoon 2 to prove that you aren't pirating it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Please provide pictures and videos of you legally ripping your owned copy of Splatoon 2 to prove that you aren't pirating it.

I will not as I don't play nor own Splatoon 2.

 

[intbal]

Just to reiterate for maybe the 10th time in this thread, Cloud Saves are free on Xbox and always have been.
It also works in reverse.
If you buy a Xbox 360 game to play through backwards compatibility on Xbox Series S/X, you can start the game on Xbox Series, then resume your cloud save at some later date on your Xbox 360.

 

[BlackTron]

this doesnt make sense, as Nintendo has worse online functions and they also charge the fees.

It makes sense because you can do the majority of your online gaming on PC and then get access to both 95% of exclusives you're missing and a handheld sidekick with Nintendo. It's just the combo that covers each others blind spots the most.

What you're missing is having timed exclusives earlier and a console UI/ecosystem. Which is worth something, but come off more as nice-to-haves.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Can't =/= want

 

[mayham2199]

I wasn't planning on buying a PS5 this gen since I have a good PC. I bought one so my girlfriend and I could play FF7 Rebirth on launch day. Imagine how disappointed I was finding out that cloud saves still aren't a thing unless you pay for their monthly service. Not only that, but they still lock them down to the console and don't let you back them up to USB. The worst part about the save situation? FF7 Remake Intergrade, the previous game, had save data that was cross-compatible from PS5 to PC if your system was modded. So if I wanted to double dip and buy the game on PC when it comes out, I would have to completely start over despite the save data being just out of my grasp and cross-compatible. How ignorant is this? It has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm contemplating just selling the console for this reason, but I know my money is already in Sony's pockets so it won't really affect anything.

Then just the other day I wanted to see what else the PS5 had to offer; it's been a hot summer and my PS5 will probably generate less heat than my computer, so I'll do some console gaming for a change. I downloaded some PS4 games I had purchased the previous gen. Great! I started with Tetris Effect: Connected. Now I can just hop into online play, right? Nope, you need a paid membership -- womp womp. Why? I could hop on any of the Tetris games on PC and play them for free online without a stupid membership. Aren't the console's third-party developers and publishers the ones who are footing the bill for the dedicated multiplayer servers -- if so, what right does Sony have to impose a Sony membership requirement? My understanding is that online membership requirements no longer exist in the Xbox console ecoystem -- but it does exist in Nintendo's, which is mind boggling to me since they offer the weakest online presence, with the poorest infrastructure and laggiest gaming experiences without purchase of a separate USB LAN adapter.

Why exactly are console gamers still OK with subscription hostage tactics in 2024? Why aren't more gaming journalists challenging this in the public eye -- are they that afraid of their industry contacts and reputation being marred? Moreover, how can Valve do all of this for free on a platform where piracy is completely rampant and still be able to offer discounts, mod support via workshop and so much more?

I'm not ok with it but what choice do I have? Go back to PC gaming? That has far worse issues that I would literally pay the yearly fee if PC could get rid of these issues. So I have to stick with consoles because they are providing me what I want and I'll pay the yearly fee to get that.

When it comes to gaming saving money isn't my priority. Convenience is my issue and I will pay a premium price for that convenience. I wasted thousands of dollars trying to perfect the PC couch gaming experience. I got close but not close enough. So I sold everything and lost thousands in the process.

 

[Crayon]

Perhaps MS' greatest contribution to the console market. That was back in the age of rampant viral marketers.

Now console players are thoroughly trained. Reducing or eliminating the price of the online services would just be leaving money on the table. And such vast, dependable amounts of money that their whole business models would be screwed up.

A console is 4-5 hundred dollars up front but if you are comparing to steam and want to be real, you need to take into account these fees over time. My PS5 gets more expensive every year. So far it would be ~$800.My pc over those 4 years ate about $1,100 in upgrade parts. I don't get fancy with it but over that time upgrades were needed and that 1,100 is 90% new parts. So the difference in price is not as huge as it seems. At least the way I look at it.

 

[Clear]

Now console players are thoroughly trained.

Not as well trained as the types who refuse to use all the buying options available to them on an open platform because they want everything tied into their Steam library!

The amount of shit-talk I've read on here over the years about EGS daring to compete against Steam by getting exclusives! C'mon!

 

[DryvBy]

PC is different. There's a lot of options for cloud saving so Steam and others just become a "one stop shop" for it. On console, you don't have that unless you USB save on a PS3/PS4 (sadly, PS5 went the Xbox route of excluding save backups to USB).

 

[LazyParrot]

Valve isn't a publicly traded company, so no shareholders pressuring them to constantly come up with new ways to fleece their customers.

 

[AJUMP23]

Ecosystems. And it isn't like they couldn't do it, but they want it as a bullet point for paid services.

 

[Drew1440]

Console hardware is sold at a loss, they must recoup the loss through the monthly subscription. Steam also has the trading card system that functions as a revenue stream for them.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Nintendo does it form a place of love though.

Sony:

Nintendo:

 

[Crayon]

Not as well trained as the types who refuse to use all the buying options available to them on an open platform because they want everything tied into their Steam library!

The amount of shit-talk I've read on here over the years about EGS daring to compete against Steam by getting exclusives! C'mon!

That's a can of worms that I would rather consider come and gone. But for the record, I never had a problem with them getting the exclusives. I did have a problem with all these accusations of everyone being so loyal to steam. There's some of that, sure. And a lot of PC players consider steam home base, so there's going to be a little fanboyism in there. But the main reason is that steam is an excellent platform.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Agree with the OP. Particularly when it comes to cloud saves. That should be part of the base functionality of every console.



If devs are "forced" to release on Steam then how is it EGS exclusives exist?

FFS Trollpher.

Spoiler: Yelling at clouds

We are all speaking in hyperbole in this thread but to clarify the way in which I used forced... "Forced" in this context = if a PC release (only pc release mind you...not multiplatform) from a developer has any hope of recouping their development costs they need to release on Steam. Show me a PC title on EGS that was successful WITHOUT* the paycheck from Epic for exclusive release timings?

Then show me the same game that releases on Steam a year (or some time) later and let's compare performance for that title.

I don't have an specific quotes, and I doubt any developer will discuss the terms for the Exclusive EGS releases but lets use Hades as an example. That team had the breathing room, afforded by their initial EGS exclusive release window, to create a fantastic game after their previous release failed to set the world on fire (Pyre). That game came out on Steam and CRUSHED it (and every other platform for that matter).

Also, I am aware of the situation around that timed release for Epic so, admittedly, it is not a fair example when comparing to other EGS timed releases.

Valve isn't a hero...they are a corporation and they make money from everything they offer....even the "free awesome features everyone should also make free."

Obviously this is all just my opinion, but also I am speaking from a point of extreme privilege since I shop on almost every available platform, have every type of gaming device released, and can compare for myself each of the features all the platforms offer.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Easy, steam is in an open marketplace with competitors. Consoles are wall garden ecosystems. That's why Sony and Microsoft can get away with charging for online play.

 

[Topher]

FFS Trollpher.

Spoiler: Yelling at clouds

We are all speaking in hyperbole in this thread but to clarify the way in which I used forced... "Forced" in this context = if a PC release (only pc release mind you...not multiplatform) from a developer has any hope of recouping their development costs they need to release on Steam. Show me a PC title on EGS that was successful WITHOUT* the paycheck from Epic for exclusive release timings?

Then show me the same game that releases on Steam a year (or some time) later and let's compare performance for that title.

I don't have an specific quotes, and I doubt any developer will discuss the terms for the Exclusive EGS releases but lets use Hades as an example. That team had the breathing room, afforded by their initial EGS exclusive release window, to create a fantastic game after their previous release failed to set the world on fire (Pyre). That game came out on Steam and CRUSHED it (and every other platform for that matter).

Also, I am aware of the situation around that timed release for Epic so, admittedly, it is not a fair example when comparing to other EGS timed releases.

Valve isn't a hero...they are a corporation and they make money from everything they offer....even the "free awesome features everyone should also make free."

Obviously this is all just my opinion, but also I am speaking from a point of extreme privilege since I shop on almost every available platform, have every type of gaming device released, and can compare for myself each of the features all the platforms offer.

So you meant foregoing Steam isn't a feasible option for most devs. That's fair. Don't think my question was worth getting all worked up over, but whatever.

Trollpher. That's cute though.

 

[JaksGhost]

That is the Microsoft legacy to the console business originally Sony and Nintendo had free online play.

Microsoft went as far as locking Netflix, Hulu, and other streaming apps behind Gold. It's wild they held that up until the first Xbox One SKU refresh in 2014.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

So you meant foregoing Steam isn't a feasible option for most devs. That's fair. Don't think my question was worth getting all worked up over, but whatever.

Trollpher. That's cute though.

Not on you bud, just had a disaster of a meeting and decided to take it out on Gabe.

 

[BlackTron]

Hold on did someone just buy the boss Gold?

 

[Topher]

Not on you bud, just had a disaster of a meeting and decided to take it out on Gabe.

Bad day. Got it. Hope it gets better bro.

 

[bender]

Bad day. Got it. Hope it gets better bro.

 

[Topher]

Oh....ok. Err......hey Miyazaki’s Slave ...

am I doing this right?

 

[bender]

Oh....ok. Err......hey Miyazaki’s Slave ...

am I doing this right?

Troglodyte Gopher

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Oh....ok. Err......hey Miyazaki’s Slave ...

am I doing this right?

Yes...but they are supposed to hug after

 

[Topher]

Yes...but they are supposed to hug after

 

[bender]

You humans are so bad at this.

 

[Beechos]

Valve is a private company and ms, sony, Nintendo are publicly traded. Valve doesn't have to answer to share holders and constantly find ways to show some sort of growth compared to the others.

 

[BennyBlanco]

this doesnt make sense, as Nintendo has worse online functions and they also charge the fees.

Fair point but I don’t play multiplayer on Switch. I just want their weeb games like Xenoblade and furst party bangers.