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[SF Kosmo]

Tennessee woman arrested for speeding through COVID-19 vaccination tent in protest, authorities say

A Tennessee woman was arrested after authorities say she drove her SUV through a COVID vaccination tent, nearly hitting several people while yelling "no vaccine!"

abc7.com

I do not understand how people -- particularly the "muh freedoms" set -- are actively against other people deciding for themselves to get a vaccine...

 

[Raven117]

For the people who ask "who cares?" or "what difference does it make?" with regard to possible lab leak, Gerard Baker writes in The Times about the implications if the lab leak was the actual cause:

Great quote.

Idiots. Idiots think that a state-run model is the best way to go. It is the epitome of arrogance. For all of Americans loud, political differences, etc. We went from not knowing anything about the virus, to creating a vaccine within 9 months and into arms of the general population. That is amazing.

China, flat out, is not a model we want to follow. Not in any way. Anybody with any sense and understanding of history and the human condition would know this.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

I doubt it was intentional. If it was intentional I would expect the virus to do more.

Do more how? It's already done so much for China. The optics inside China are one of control and suppression of the virus, better than any other country. Some good ol Chinese superiority nationalism while they can point to so many other countries (including America) that floundered hard in response to the virus.

IF this was something that was used intentionally it was obviously for destabilization as opposed to eradication. While it's no secret that China has it out for America in the meantime their main goal would be spreading east across Europe. Shoring up political ties with European countries. Establishing business relations. Building the foundation for a much more globalized China through these ties, and more importantly through Jinping's so called "Silk Road 2.0".

Just look how they've behaved during all this. Not long after it started kicking off China was sending teams of specialists and equipment to European countries, some of these countries publicly expressed how they felt left behind by the EU. Most strikingly was the Serbian president (who's country was one of those left behind by the EU in regards to response teams and equipment support). This guy straight up during a national address to the nation stated that China was the "only country that could help"!

Again, I have no way to say one way or another if this was intentionally planned, I'm just saying it's easy to see how unleashing something like this could be a massive massive boost to China's pr campaign internally, while simultaneously fostering new relationships with countries.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Health and science reporter for the New York Times reminding us of the we live in.

Bio

I’m a health and science reporter at The New York Times, where I write mostly about infectious diseases. I have also written for The Atlantic, The New Yorker online, Slate, Nature, Scientific…

apoorvamandavilli.com

 

[BouncyFrag]

Fauci Argued Benefits of Gain-of-Function Research Outweighed Pandemic Risk in 2012 Paper | National Review

Fauci argued a pandemic was more likely to occur naturally than through gain-of-function research.

www.nationalreview.com

Despite the risks involved, Fauci called gain-of-function experiments “important work” in his 2012 writing:

In an unlikely but conceivable turn of events, what if that scientist becomes infected with the virus, which leads to an outbreak and ultimately triggers a pandemic? Many ask reasonable questions: given the possibility of such a scenario – however remote – should the initial experiments have been performed and/or published in the first place, and what were the processes involved in this decision?

Scientists working in this field might say – as indeed I have said – that the benefits of such experiments and the resulting knowledge outweigh the risks. It is more likely that a pandemic would occur in nature, and the need to stay ahead of such a threat is a primary reason for performing an experiment that might appear to be risky.

 

[BouncyFrag]

 

[BouncyFrag]

Fauci on the risk of dual research (gain of function). He feels it’s worth the risk.

 

[ManaByte]

Fauci on the risk of dual research (gain of function). He feels it’s worth the risk.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Deleted member 17706]

My local gym finally dropped the mask requirement. Zero people were wearing them when I just went in.

 

[Chaplain]

Edited

 

[ntropy]

 

[BouncyFrag]

I’m getting sick of this man.

 

[BadBurger]

I’m getting sick of this man.

He's in a tough spot dealing with what was a moving target for many months. I'd cut the guy some slack.

On the flipside, working healthcare IT, it has been officially one complete year since I watched a person die from this. Visiting hospitals early on into this thing was no fun. I watched a guy in his thirties puke blood and die from a heart attack in the parking lot of one hospital. I saw the aftermath of a woman who shot herself in the ER lobby after finding out both her parents and ten year old daughter died from COVID.

Frankly I'd just like to move on. I feel like I may have PTSD at this point. Dunno.

 

[Excess]

Unless it was the combination of intentional + incompetence.

The only reason I would consider it unlikely is because of simple game theory.

If you planned to intentionally release it, you'd also want to make sure you had a vaccine for it first. The CCP is still a rational state actor. They're trying to cover it up because their culture is entirely prefaced on saving-face, and this would be the most embarrassing setback for a country trying to assert itself as the world's next super power.

Yet, it was the West who had the vaccines first, and because of that, we now have leverage over the rest of the world in terms of distribution. That is not good for China.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

He's in a tough spot dealing with what was a moving target for many months. I'd cut the guy some slack.

No thanks. He's a liar who has admitted to intentionally deceiving the public for ulterior motives. Zero trust for this guy. I'm sure he's brilliant, but I have no confidence that he is working first and foremost for the good of the public.

 

[mango drank]

I saw the aftermath of a woman who shot herself in the ER lobby after finding out both her parents and ten year old daughter died from COVID.

Jesus. Like, she'd been waiting in the lobby for a long while as her family was being treated in the hospital, and she randomly had a gun on her, and when she heard the news she killed herself? Or she heard the news, went out to get her gun, then came back and shot herself as an act of revenge against what she thought was incompetent hospital staff?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Jesus. Like, she'd been waiting in the lobby for a long while as her family was being treated in the hospital, and she randomly had a gun on her, and when she heard the news she killed herself? Or she heard the news, went out to get her gun, then came back and shot herself as an act of revenge against what she thought was incompetent hospital staff?

Certainly a provocative story, though, wasn't it?

 

[BadBurger]

Jesus. Like, she'd been waiting in the lobby for a long while as her family was being treated in the hospital, and she randomly had a gun on her, and when she heard the news she killed herself? Or she heard the news, went out to get her gun, then came back and shot herself as an act of revenge against what she thought was incompetent hospital staff?

It's a pretty terrible story. Mother and father died first. Days later, the daughter passed extremely swiftly, within something like two days of arriving. Our hospital was largely on lockdown aside from the ER (all other doors literally locked), where people still had to be screened for fever but could otherwise walk in. She checked in, sat down, shot herself.

I don't know anymore than that and what I saw as I arrived for work. Sad state of affairs all around.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[BouncyFrag]

Sadness.

 

[Airola]

The only reason I would consider it unlikely is because of simple game theory.

If you planned to intentionally release it, you'd also want to make sure you had a vaccine for it first.

Then again, wouldn't that be suspicious as hell too? They'd have to keep the vaccine secret, otherwise people would either start to suggest this was intentional, or people would demand the same vaccine to be sold/shared to the rest of the world.

It kinda makes sense to release something that's not even close to ebola type of danger but is still deadly enough to make countries go in financial chaos. Just like with regular warfare countries are always ready to sacrifice their own people in order to win the war, it's the same with biological warfare too. They probably afford to lose more people than the rest of the world because they have billions of people.

 

[Classicrockfan]

Got my first shot today,will get my 2nd on the 19th got Pfizer.

 

[Excess]

Then again, wouldn't that be suspicious as hell too? They'd have to keep the vaccine secret, otherwise people would either start to suggest this was intentional, or people would demand the same vaccine to be sold/shared to the rest of the world.

It kinda makes sense to release something that's not even close to ebola type of danger but is still deadly enough to make countries go in financial chaos. Just like with regular warfare countries are always ready to sacrifice their own people in order to win the war, it's the same with biological warfare too. They probably afford to lose more people than the rest of the world because they have billions of people.

I, too, have thought about that, but again, I consider the CCP a rational state actor. In realism in International Relations, one of the primary concerns of a rational state is survival, and with any virus, it's subject to entropy, meaning the virus you release into a large population could end up having very very unpredictable real-world consequences due to mutation and edge cases. It would be impossible for the CCP to accurately predict what losses they could sustain in order carryout the offensive. It's not necessarily a case of, say, the Kamikaze fighters in WWII, where Japan knew how many lives it could predictably lose for the benefit of killing the enemy's. The CCP is too smart to make such a poor calculation, especially when it didn't exactly manifest as so perfectly-planned as some seem to suggest.

What happened: China has done more damage to its image on the world stage than it could have ever predicted. The West developed the vaccines, much of the world economy has recovered, and now the West distrusts China over 10-fold. And I don't buy that they would do this to get Trump out of office. While Trump may have accelerated the trend and revealed the malicious intent of the CCP, the Chinese strategy is a long-term strategy. They could've easily weathered him another four years. Instead, what they got was a new national security apparatus that recognizes China as enemy no. 1, and an American population that largely distrusts China and sees them as a rival. That part of the consensus is unmoving and unelectable; it doesn't need Trump.

 

[mango drank]

Got my first Pfizer shot a couple days ago, mid-day. As the day went on, the injection site got sore. Around midnight, I noticed some hives on the inside of my elbow on the arm that got poked (but not at the injection site). I never get hives. Can't tell if it was an allergic reaction, or just really early "Covid arm." The second day, my arm was more sore, and I was kinda tired and achy and had a mild fever, but not bad overall. The hives were halfway gone. The third day, I felt better, and the hives were completely gone. Today, the fourth day, I feel all better. I wonder if I'll get legit "Covid arm" in a few days, more rashes etc.

Honestly, I wasn't going to get the vaccine until there was a major revision end of year, or next year or sth, but I ended up caving to peer pressure. Remains to be seen if I'll get other side effects farther down the line. It's pretty crazy that hundreds of millions of people are being vaccinated w/ experimental vaccines that we have zero data about long-term side effects on, aside from vague hand-waving about mRNA treatments having been safe in the past.

 

[llien]

vague hand-waving about mRNA treatments having been safe in the past.

Huh? When did we ever have mRNA treatments in the past?

Vaccinations is the only reasonable way out of pandemic (now that we know that The West is made of pussies who cannot lock down properly to just eliminate the shit), so while it's not risk free, it's a reasonable risk.

Plain old vaccines could give you side effects too.

We do know how mRNAs work. If some shit comes, it would be new, rather unknown effect, which is always possible, although, not that likely (especially given the number of times Biontech-Pfizer jab had been administered to date).

 

[Ascend]

After not reading this thread for a couple of weeks...

Considering the change in sentiment regarding the whole Wuhan Lab origin thing... The ones saying it was 'never a conspiracy theory', I don't understand how you cannot be disgusted with yourself. It goes as far as the likes of Facebook and Twitter banning people from their platform for making the claim that it likely originated from the LAB itself rather than from people eating bats. And you can claim that "everyone already knew it came from the LAB"? WTF is wrong with you?
It is a fact that anyone that questioned anything regarding covid was immediately labeled a conspiracy theorist. The same happened with the likes of 9/11. That is exactly the reason why I find it extremely disgusting to censor different opinions and immediately labeling them 'conspiracy theories', simply because they don't fit the standard narrative. Now, the whole media changed its tune, and now suddenly everyone agrees. People are more like sheep than I thought...

As for people that already got Covid needing the vaccine, I will say what I already said once before. There has never ever been an instance, where someone that naturally recovered from an illness was better protected from that illness afterwards, compared to someone that had a vaccine against it but never got infected. In other words, what vaccines can do is offer better protection compared to never having been infected. If you honestly believe, that a vaccine based on the first 'variant' can offer better protection than someone that naturally recovered from the same virus, you're completely delusional. In short;

• Never infected + no vaccine = no protection (severe symptoms more likely)
• Never infected + vaccine = Medium protection (severe symptoms less likely)
• Infected + naturally recovered = max protection (reinfection unlikely)
• Vaccinated + infected = max protection (reinfection unlikely)

Lastly, simply leaving this here;

 

[setmalis]

As for people that already got Covid needing the vaccine, I will say what I already said once before. There has never ever been an instance, where someone that naturally recovered from an illness was better protected from that illness afterwards, compared to someone that had a vaccine against it but never got infected. In other words, what vaccines can do is offer better protection compared to never having been infected. If you honestly believe, that a vaccine based on the first 'variant' can offer better protection than someone that naturally recovered from the same virus, you're completely delusional. In short;

• Never infected + no vaccine = no protection (severe symptoms more likely)
• Never infected + vaccine = Medium protection (severe symptoms less likely)
• Infected + naturally recovered = max protection (reinfection unlikely)
• Vaccinated + infected = max protection (reinfection unlikely)

This does not necessarily apply to the MRNA vaccines as its unique delivery mechanism makes it much more effective than other types of vaccines. Moreover, any single infection event is computationally irreducible as far as the outcome. There are too many factors in play to say for certain that any one infection that is recovered from equals max protection. Therefore, it is more likely that recovered infection plus vaccination represents the most protection, while just recovered infection or just vaccination represents a second, lower tier of protection that are roughly equivalent, especially in the case of the mrna vaccines.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Kev Kev]

After not reading this thread for a couple of weeks...

Considering the change in sentiment regarding the whole Wuhan Lab origin thing... The ones saying it was 'never a conspiracy theory', I don't understand how you cannot be disgusted with yourself. It goes as far as the likes of Facebook and Twitter banning people from their platform for making the claim that it likely originated from the LAB itself rather than from people eating bats. And you can claim that "everyone already knew it came from the LAB"? WTF is wrong with you?
It is a fact that anyone that questioned anything regarding covid was immediately labeled a conspiracy theorist. The same happened with the likes of 9/11. That is exactly the reason why I find it extremely disgusting to censor different opinions and immediately labeling them 'conspiracy theories', simply because they don't fit the standard narrative. Now, the whole media changed its tune, and now suddenly everyone agrees. People are more like sheep than I thought...

As for people that already got Covid needing the vaccine, I will say what I already said once before. There has never ever been an instance, where someone that naturally recovered from an illness was better protected from that illness afterwards, compared to someone that had a vaccine against it but never got infected. In other words, what vaccines can do is offer better protection compared to never having been infected. If you honestly believe, that a vaccine based on the first 'variant' can offer better protection than someone that naturally recovered from the same virus, you're completely delusional. In short;

• Never infected + no vaccine = no protection (severe symptoms more likely)
• Never infected + vaccine = Medium protection (severe symptoms less likely)
• Infected + naturally recovered = max protection (reinfection unlikely)
• Vaccinated + infected = max protection (reinfection unlikely)

Lastly, simply leaving this here;

both sides are to blame

we are starting to learn more facts, and we are getting to the truth of the story behind wuhan. people who were claiming they knew china did it on purpose, and people who were defending them saying the knew they didnt, were both premature in their assertions.

as always, its best to wait for the facts after proper investigation, and not spread lies about things you actually know nothing about. that is a concept that is becoming more and more lost in todays society, due to extreme leftists and extreme rightists having immediate and constant access to the "all knowing, all seeing" interwebz.

its a shit show, and each side takes a little bit of the blame, especially those who are sided to the extreme left or extreme right. as such, we still havent determined or proven anything yet, but its appearing more and more likely that china invented this and accidentally let it get out of control. we still dont know anything for sure yet and should continue to search fr the truth and investigate with level heads and solidarity.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

There has never ever been an instance, where someone that naturally recovered from an illness was not better protected from that illness afterwards,

I think you were missing an very important "not" from this sentence. Not trying to be a pedant, but it made an otherwise good post a bit confusing.

 

[vpance]

Feds say employers can require workers to get COVID vaccine

Employers are allowed under federal law to require workers to get a COVID-19 vaccine before they can physically return to the workplace, the feds say.

nypost.com

Employers are allowed under federal law to require workers to get a COVID-19 vaccine before they can physically return to the workplace, according to updated guidance 1 issued by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on Friday.

But they must provide “reasonable accommodations” 1 for workers who refuse the shots due to a disability or pregnancy or for religious reasons, the agency said.

The decision may mean unvaccinated employees could be required to wear masks or work remotely.

The EEOC rules also gave the green light to companies offering incentives for staffers to get vaccinated, as long as the rewards are “not so substantial as to be coercive.”

 

[Ascend]

I think you were missing an very important "not" from this sentence. Not trying to be a pedant, but it made an otherwise good post a bit confusing.

Yeah the sentence is too long. But that is the short version of it. Thanks for clarifying anyway

Edit:
Just as a reminder regarding the whole Wuhan Lab thing...

Published:February 19, 2020
"The rapid, open, and transparent sharing of data on this outbreak is now being threatened by rumours and misinformation around its origins. We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin."

Statement in support of the scientists, public health professionals, and medical professionals of China combatting COVID-19

We are public health scientists who have closely followed the emergence of 2019 novel coronavirus disease (COVID-19) and are deeply concerned about its impact on global health and wellbeing. We have watched as the scientists, public health professionals, and medical professionals of China, in...

www.thelancet.com

There's your direct indication that science is no longer science, but is politics being sold as science. And whenever politics mixes with, health, science, or both, we are living in extremely dangerous times. The same thing happened during the 2nd world war. Just sayin'. So, be careful which side you are on. Choose wisely.

 

[mango drank]

Huh? When did we ever have mRNA treatments in the past?

Before I got my shot, I Googled around to see if there was any info on the long-term safety of mRNA vaccines. I thought I remembered reading something about mRNA being used in cancer therapies in recent years and those having been proven safe long-term, but now I can't find anything concrete.

 

[llien]

I remembered reading something about mRNA being used in cancer therapies in recent years and those having been proven safe long-term, but now I can't find anything concrete.

Fighting cancer is indeed one of the frontiers, but it's not even remotely well researched field, it's still very experimental what they are doing.

 

[ManaByte]

Fighting cancer is indeed one of the frontiers, but it's not even remotely well researched field, it's still very experimental what they are doing.

They've used them for the flu, rabies, and Zika before and have been using mRNA for decades. It's not experimental. Stop reading anti-Vaxxer Facebook pages.

 

[llien]

They've used them for the flu, rabies, and Zika before and have been using mRNA for decades.

Citation needed.

Stop reading anti-Vaxxer Facebook pages.

Stop being ridiculous.

 

[BouncyFrag]

 

[ManaByte]

Citation needed.

Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines

Learn how mRNA vaccines trigger an immune response against COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

 

[BouncyFrag]

More doublespeak from Fauci. He trusts the Chinese scientists and pretends that they are a completely separate entity from the CCP.

 

[llien]

Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines

Learn how mRNA vaccines trigger an immune response against COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

I see.
So "mRNA vaccines have been studied before for flu, Zika, rabies, and cytomegalovirus (CMV). " has been mistaken for something else.

You are welcome.

And, yes, molecular biology field is studying a lot of the stuff, including mRNA, for decades.

 

[Chaplain]

edited

 

[ManaByte]

There are 3.54 million deaths worldwide. Not 32 million.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

There are 3.54 million deaths worldwide. Not 32 million.

Eh, what's a decimal!

 

[Chaplain]

CNN's Michael Smerconish discusses the political reaction to new questions about Covid-19's origin after a report found that researchers at China's Wuhan Institute of Virology fell ill in November 2019, about a month earlier than China had reported to WHO that the first patient with Covid-like symptoms was recorded. (5/29/21)

Dr. Scott Gottlieb discusses why there's a conversation about how the COVID-19 pandemic started and why that's important. (5/30/21)

 

[Ascend]

This does not necessarily apply to the MRNA vaccines as its unique delivery mechanism makes it much more effective than other types of vaccines. Moreover, any single infection event is computationally irreducible as far as the outcome. There are too many factors in play to say for certain that any one infection that is recovered from equals max protection. Therefore, it is more likely that recovered infection plus vaccination represents the most protection, while just recovered infection or just vaccination represents a second, lower tier of protection that are roughly equivalent, especially in the case of the mrna vaccines.

The main thing that the vaccine does is prevent infection. The mRNA vaccine works by letting the mRNA create the spike protein in your body that are the same as on the virus. The spike protein is the part that allows the virus to connect to your ACE2 receptors. The ACE2 receptor is what opens the 'door' to allow the whole virus to enter a cell. When the cell detects that the spike protein production is a foreign invader, your immune system creates antibodies for specifically the spike protein. And it makes sense to create the vaccine this way. If the virus cannot enter the body freely, because it immediately has a response for this spike protein, your immune system will be more on guard, and the virus cannot replicate.
However, it is not a complete immunity. If there is a mutation that changes specifically the spike protein (which has already happened), the virus has free reign to re-enter the body since the body will simply open the door again. You have no immunity against the rest of the virus, since your body has not had any history of contact with the other virus parts. It will take a while before your immune system responds, and it will need to create these new anti-bodies.

However, if you got actually infected with covid-19, the virus not only created the spike protein, but everything that is required to form a new virus 'body'. Assuming the person recovered from the infection, that means that even if the spike protein changes with a mutation, the body has also recorded all the other parts of the virus that were being created, like the membrane and nucleo-proteins. So even if the virus enters the body and lets the ACE2 receptor open the door, the body can recognize all the other parts and the immune system will quickly react. Basically the whole virus needs to mutate to be an actual large risk in this case.

There is no immunity 'better' than the one above. Someone that was vaccinated and then gets infected, ends up exactly as the case above.

 

[llien]

However, if you got actually infected with covid-19, the virus not only created the spike protein, but everything that is required to form a new virus 'body'. Assuming the person recovered from the infection, that means that even if the spike protein changes with a mutation, the body has also recorded all the other parts of the virus that were being created, like the membrane and nucleo-proteins. So even if the virus enters the body and lets the ACE2 receptor open the door, the body can recognize all the other parts and the immune system will quickly react. Basically the whole virus needs to mutate to be an actual large risk in this case.

It is actually multiple spikes, not one, that mRNA vaccines target (for the very reason you've outlined).

Had targeting the genome been more effective, the more traditional vaccines (dead virus, for instance, China produces at least two of those) would have shown amazing effectiveness, but they have not.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Got my first Pfizer shot a couple days ago, mid-day. As the day went on, the injection site got sore. Around midnight, I noticed some hives on the inside of my elbow on the arm that got poked (but not at the injection site). I never get hives. Can't tell if it was an allergic reaction, or just really early "Covid arm." The second day, my arm was more sore, and I was kinda tired and achy and had a mild fever, but not bad overall. The hives were halfway gone. The third day, I felt better, and the hives were completely gone. Today, the fourth day, I feel all better. I wonder if I'll get legit "Covid arm" in a few days, more rashes etc.

Honestly, I wasn't going to get the vaccine until there was a major revision end of year, or next year or sth, but I ended up caving to peer pressure. Remains to be seen if I'll get other side effects farther down the line. It's pretty crazy that hundreds of millions of people are being vaccinated w/ experimental vaccines that we have zero data about long-term side effects on, aside from vague hand-waving about mRNA treatments having been safe in the past.

“

 

[EviLore]

Getting too heavy on the politics, Chaplain .