Yeah. The controller screen's features can be barely implemented to full-on. All up to the developer.
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Media Create Sales: Week 47, 2013 (Nov 18 - Nov 24)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Yeah. The controller screen's features can be barely implemented to full-on. All up to the developer.
What's absolutely worrying is that Pikmin 3 sold that amount in just two days, while Mario's debut includes its first four days of sale. So, aligning launches, Pikmin 3 actually had a better launch than Super Mario 3D World.
Or they are probably dicking around on miiverse
metalslimer
Member
Holy crap.... I think when looked at like this you have to blame the IP usage that has been going on recently with Mario platformers. They have become a yearly thing since 2009 and 2012 even had 2 of them. The idea that more people were interested in Pikmin is mindblowing. And if the IP is the problem it means that the legs might also be a problem as well. Mario platformers need a break. I thought Nintendo might try a 3D Land 2, but it might do more harm than good.
Also Ying, do you really believe Taiko will show the kind of legs to even get this game past 100k when we see the lack of interest those type of players have in this platform currently?
It shouldn't be too surprising, because Pikmin is more popular in Japan than 3D Mario titles. The only problem Nintendo has right now is the lineup for the next weeks. There is no real HW-seller-title. Donkey Kong doesn't count and even Monster Hunter Frontier G didn't take off.
I guess Mario Kart would be the next big hitter in that regard.
I fear the bigger problem (I mean, the MUCH bigger problem) is the Wii U itself. Pikmin 3 obtained to sell that much because it was released at a better time for the platform, and for better time I mean still months of software lacking, but not as much as at the time Mario released. So many months without releases hurt Wii U reputation even more than what we thought.
Yeah and that's still 3-4 months away right? Nintendo can't expect a game every 3-4 months (They will eventually run out of their top franchises at that rate anyway) to bring a platform back from the dead.
They need to fix the third party situation right now. Get Destiny, The Order et al on their machines (No idea if there's time). Pay for the ports if need be. Whatever it is they need to do, they need to do it now so that the system has a more holisitc feel than just a Nintendo machine. Which, quite frankly doesn't seem to be cutting it.
Unfortunately to fix these problems required money, and Nintendo are on a myopically focussed course to profitability which inevitably means fewer risks.
Glass Rebel
Member
what? no, it isn't?
I think (expect/hope) that Nintendo won't release that many new Mario platformers for a while. We've got a lot of them lately but all of them got released because of new platforms, so I expect them to go back to their other IPs. If they do this we may see some legs in the recent Mario games, especially if Wii U sales pick up.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Pikmin is more niche, but as you said it is at the very least something different.
There could've been a pent-up demand for Pikmin due to the release timing. A lot of the early adopter Holiday 2012 purchasers would've been desperate for a game at that time. Wii U games look down across the board, not confined to Mario in particular.
Mario Kart 8 really is the last shot Nintendo has at pushing out a tried-and-true best-selling franchise to get some reaction but it's just way too bleak beyond that. Unless 3D World's legs can prove to be powerful enough throughout the holidays and the Wii U can actually get some traction worldwide this next month, I wouldn't expect a bigger opening for Kart than 150k in Japan alone, unless that really is where the "Nintendo magic" lies these days.
This thing is crying out for a bigger install base and I'm not sure what can make an effect unless Nintendo can opt for something completely different. They've got almost all the key IPs for this console within the span of a year and a half. It's quite worrisome.
This thing is crying out for a bigger install base and I'm not sure what can make an effect unless Nintendo can opt for something completely different. They've got almost all the key IPs for this console within the span of a year and a half. It's quite worrisome.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
No it's not by any stretch of imagination.
There's Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze before MK8.
Actually, without the casual/blue-ocean crowd Smash Bros has more pull as a killer app pushing hardware sales than Mario Kart does. We'll se if the fact there's a 3DS sku as well will have a big impact on adoption tho, hopefully they realize it's better to delay the 3DS version for a few months and let the game shine as a Wii U must-have killer app.
It's the console itself. It's become toxic now thanks to the crappy software output and release schedule. People have given up on waiting. Improving the output should be first thing on NCL's mind. Thinking and acting like a global company should be the first step to sorting out this mess.
Yep, this is what I'm thinking as well. The console doesn't appeal to casual audience. It doesn't appeal to hardcore audiences. The only things that can succeed there, then, are the things that can succeed anywhere, and those will inevitably perform poorly because they're never in the right place.
Sad for the low Mario numbers. Not unexpected though.
Seems like Vita TV will not catch its pace in Japan for the time being. I'll wait until more titles are compatible and the PS4 is released to pass final judgement on it though.
I agree. It's surprising how little attention Nintendo has given these other franchises while milking Mario so much.
Both the PSP and the PSV versions dropped in almost identical proportion, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with the install base. I guess the game hasn't got that many new fans since the last one.
Seems like Vita TV will not catch its pace in Japan for the time being. I'll wait until more titles are compatible and the PS4 is released to pass final judgement on it though.
I agree. It's surprising how little attention Nintendo has given these other franchises while milking Mario so much.
Both the PSP and the PSV versions dropped in almost identical proportion, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with the install base. I guess the game hasn't got that many new fans since the last one.
I kind of worry that there is a chance of Smash Bros becoming another example of being too late to the party. With Kart 8 there is a clear release window that has the chance of still being in the limelight to a degree, but it's hard to say with all other games.
metalslimer
Member
Yes, it may just be the lack of releases has sent Wii U in an even worse downward spiral since Pikmin. But then the situation next year looks horrendous. At best next quarter they will have a total of 2 games that can sell more than 50k and that is their own DK and MK (if it makes it). Realistically MK won't make it until April-May leaving DK to try and sustain the system for months which it obviously can't.
Edit: I kind of forgot about Wii Fit U, but at this point who is expecting anything from it?
Edit: I kind of forgot about Wii Fit U, but at this point who is expecting anything from it?
Well, this is what happens when Iwata decides to toss a console out onto the market without a strategy in place. NCL should just use this opportunity to create/build IPs that have been missing on their console(s) for years. Forget a "single" target audience. Just make/get as many games, covering as many different genres as they possibly can - be it from NCL, NoA, NoE, Indies as well as 3rd parties.
Easier said than done, of course. But start somewhere and start now.
metalslimer
Member
But do you really want to launch these IPs on Wii U? They will most likely do terribly and you cannot judge whether or not it is worth continuing in the same direction. It's a hard situation for Nintendo, because they can't just keep launching games that don't make money. This is what is really terrible with Wii U. At least with the Gamecube, Nintendo software was able to sell great and new IPs like Pikmin did really well. Now development costs are much higher and games are selling worse.
It's the third-party situation that is truly worrying. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything coming out after MH Frontier. With the small developers all on handhelds, the mid-tier developers sort of drifting around between gens and the big publishers completely ignoring the Wii U, it just has nothing at all. I mean, Koei still makes some 360 musou ports for the West alone and they've completely stopped Wii U development after the first couple of bombs...
michaelius
Banned
It's possible that actual active userbase of Wii U is shrinking not growing as time passes and more people give up on console.
Well this is what I meant when I said fostering positive perception is important.
If consumers view the Wii U as a dead platform where notable games only comes out every 2-5 months, they're not likely to want to buy it (especially at a high price), even if the games themselves are high quality.
With the 3DS you can sometimes expect multiple interesting games a week, and it would be hard to find a four week drought. On other platforms where that's the norm, we see them continually failing.
Nintendo announcing five games doesn't really help this scenario because those five games might be spread across a year or more, whereas to be sold on the system a lot of their audience might want at least 12 potentially good games a year or more, since chances are that not every game Nintendo announces will appeal to them, so there really needs to be a strong volume to ensure they can get a lot of value out of the system.
Missing 1-3 titles you're rather interested in is also easy if you already have so many more you're interested available elsewhere. The longer it's been since those games have released, the easier it is to forget they exist as well.
While Nintendo often benefited from what Iwata called the virtuous cycle (good games attracting more buyers attracting more good games), you can also have the reverse and enter a death spiral from which it's very difficult to escape...
yeah i think it's about time to call quits on the wii u. nintendo really ought to have spaced things out better post-launch. it seems that people were still somewhat interested in the machine when pikmin 3 came out, but they can't be bothered at all now.
nintendo's always working on new hardware, but they say it takes about a year and a half to get it to market. i wonder if it's possible we do see something late 2015. i don't even think getting the machine to $200 worldwide will do it. the world just doesn't care.
nintendo's always working on new hardware, but they say it takes about a year and a half to get it to market. i wonder if it's possible we do see something late 2015. i don't even think getting the machine to $200 worldwide will do it. the world just doesn't care.
That's a realistic assumption. I bought a second WiiU to play 3D World and DK and I planned to keep for the next years but the planning for 2014 looks so barren that I think of selling it back for whatever price I am given for it after I complete said games.
metalslimer
Member
What could Nintendo possibly launch in 2015 that people would care about? And besides they will be ramping up for 4DS the next year anyway
I say they should, because to be frank, it's something NCL should have done years ago. Leaving it 'til another time or on another console will be foolish. It's a prize they'll have to pay, whether they like it or not. If Iwata does get injected from his seat, then whoever is given the chance should make software output the first order of business.
Having a game every 3-4weeks, 12 or so a year, even from just NCL, NoA, NoE, Indies and a small contingent of 3rd parties the likes of Platinum is a far, far better situation to be in. Like Nirolak mentioned "If consumers view the Wii U as a dead platform where notable games only comes out every 2-5 months, they're not likely to want to buy it (especially at a high price), even if the games themselves are high quality."
dark_prinny
Banned
Wow. What a mess...
I'd say as much chance as Paris-Saint-Germain to lose a match this season.
i don't know. it's clear that their most recent efforts have failed to do anything for the machine in every region outside america. this reminds me of when sega left the market for a couple years before the dreamcast launched.
maybe they should drop the console line and try getting in good with the occulus rift people. have a handheld + vr division. i really don't know what they can do, but there was a point where the wii u might have been a profitable venture for nintendo and nintendo alone, where they could make money off their own games for the platform. i don't think that's happening anymore.
The thing about Paris is that you want them to lose not only one but all matches they take part to.
Each misstep from Nintendo is like a dagger that advances inch after inch deeper in the heart of the passionate.
2 things I'm afraid of Nintendo doing on their next console
1. More gimmicks on their console/controller
We have seen Nintendo shying away from consoles that focus on power to consoles that have gimmicks or controllers with gimmicks (Wii Mote). I'm afraid that with the Wii U selling bad they might think that another gimmick is the remedy to everything they lost with the Wii U from the Wii. We all know that the Wii U Pad will never be like the Wii Mote was. I honestly wish Nintendo would make a traditional controller with a small touchscreen or a touchpad like the PS4 is having.
2. New CEO and President makes Nintendo go mobile or another direction.
Honestly we don't know what a new president or CEO will do at Nintendo. Does he think that mobile is the future or something else or will he continue with a handheld and stationary console? Or does he think that Nintendo should do something else?
1. More gimmicks on their console/controller
We have seen Nintendo shying away from consoles that focus on power to consoles that have gimmicks or controllers with gimmicks (Wii Mote). I'm afraid that with the Wii U selling bad they might think that another gimmick is the remedy to everything they lost with the Wii U from the Wii. We all know that the Wii U Pad will never be like the Wii Mote was. I honestly wish Nintendo would make a traditional controller with a small touchscreen or a touchpad like the PS4 is having.
2. New CEO and President makes Nintendo go mobile or another direction.
Honestly we don't know what a new president or CEO will do at Nintendo. Does he think that mobile is the future or something else or will he continue with a handheld and stationary console? Or does he think that Nintendo should do something else?
michaelius
Banned
With 2-3 years long development cycle it means around 30 development studios would have to fully work on Wii U to release 12 quality games each year.
In other words - it's 3rd party support that makes or breaks console because noone can provide so many games by themselves.
Im not expecting legs in the same size of the last ones, but i dont see why it wouldnt sell something like 100k when the others went from 25k to almost 400k. The holidays alone will account for that. Taiko is always a good gift on these times and kids like it, after all.
Just like i expect Mario to sell well in the end too. Those are the games for the cristmas for the wiiu and, unless the platform really tanks, they will go up with it.
I think we should wait a little, perhaps two weeks, to see how high taiko will go. First week its on par with the series, albeit slightly worse, which is already better than what we were expecting.
Moor-Angol
Banned
02./00. [WIU] Super Mario 3D World <ACT> (Nintendo) {2013.11.21} (¥5.985) - 106.967 / NEW <40-60%>
03./00. [3DS] One Piece: Unlimited World Red # <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2013.11.21} (¥5.980) - 77.105 / NEW <20-40%>
they had the same shipment, 200k around, and One Piece did worst than Mario, but you don't consider it a bomba while Mario is ?
Hero of Legend
Member
One Piece did a lot more than I expected given the 1st-day sellthrough. AND Dragon Ball Heroes 3DS did about the same amount, look where it is now; 255k.
I know One Piece games usually have legs but Namco really overestimated this one. It's in the same ballpark as Unlimited Cruise SP and it's probably going to have decent leg going into the holidays but still, that's not a great result either.
Different expectation really. One Piece wasn't tasked with "saving" a console either.
Different expectation really. One Piece wasn't tasked with "saving" a console either.
michaelius
Banned
It was retailers who overestimated it not Namco.
i think there was originally an honest market for the wii u. i feel that the launch was a bunch of fans snapping it up, but there could have been some momentum built afterwards had wii fit u made it out, had pikmin 3 made it out- rayman legends, w101, etc. just keeping people reminded there was a new system with games coming on a regular basis. a year later and they could have done a flat out relaunch of the system, similar to sony's kevin butler days. instead they've decided to just promote the hell out of a 3d mario game when that has been a huge system seller only once in its life.
mario kart won't do anything. smash will sell to the remaining fanbase. they're not going to suddenly win people over when there's this idea that the system is either dying or dead or about to be abandoned.
vita's doing incredibly poor as well. the vita tv is an outright failure at least of now, and it's a strange choice not to promote it in other markets. unlike the wii u, it has one big market, and it has a solid release schedule with fans remaining from the psp fanbase picking up games 200k at a time. i don't know if this success is enough to convince sony to keep the machine going, but the right third parties (the ones who sell to the japanese market) believe in it enough, and that's what matters. also, unlike the wii u, sony has further options for the device, like leveraging it with the ps4. i don't think it'll be in markets outside japan much longer though. we'll see how it does after the holidays, but if it can't move when it's the same price as a 3ds in the west with a fantastic new ip like tearaway, i don't think it ever will.
mario kart won't do anything. smash will sell to the remaining fanbase. they're not going to suddenly win people over when there's this idea that the system is either dying or dead or about to be abandoned.
vita's doing incredibly poor as well. the vita tv is an outright failure at least of now, and it's a strange choice not to promote it in other markets. unlike the wii u, it has one big market, and it has a solid release schedule with fans remaining from the psp fanbase picking up games 200k at a time. i don't know if this success is enough to convince sony to keep the machine going, but the right third parties (the ones who sell to the japanese market) believe in it enough, and that's what matters. also, unlike the wii u, sony has further options for the device, like leveraging it with the ps4. i don't think it'll be in markets outside japan much longer though. we'll see how it does after the holidays, but if it can't move when it's the same price as a 3ds in the west with a fantastic new ip like tearaway, i don't think it ever will.
"Here is a BRAND NEW VIDEO of Mario Kart 8. As you can see, there's now a fucking blue light under your kart, adding a lot to the fun.Thank you for watching this Nintendo Direct. Arigatô gozaimashita."
You do wonder just how much the wii u Games drought hurt the system. They had it worse than the west which is unbelievable. No Japanese third party support and there was very little Nintendo software releases for months.
During this time people would be traded in there wii u or just let it collect dust and any sort of enthusiasm for the console one may of had was likely sucked away due to no games.
I think the way Nintendo handled handled wii u in Japan was nothing but shambolic and they probably thought third parties over their would fill the gaps but it didn't happen.
During this time people would be traded in there wii u or just let it collect dust and any sort of enthusiasm for the console one may of had was likely sucked away due to no games.
I think the way Nintendo handled handled wii u in Japan was nothing but shambolic and they probably thought third parties over their would fill the gaps but it didn't happen.