Support NeoGAF

[ProtoByte]

You can actually math this out somewhat.
It's a little screwy, but you're looking at a bad churn and tier downgrading rate.

Every quarter since then has seen Gamepass subscription growth Microsoft always report that.

I don't think that's the case. Also, is that a rolling figure (I would assume so), or an annual quarterly comparison (ie Q1 2023) vs Q1 2024) they're making?

 

[Brucey]

My post literally said we don't know if any/some of these are converts from other tiers. Also, Core has been included in GP for a while now, I think its long enough removed that we can start acknowledging it as a part of GP without caveats.

So core members who don't have access to gamepass games should be considered "big boy" gamepass subscribers?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Ultimately the number means nothing just Microsoft doing it's usually thing obfuscating revenue and income by combining disparate business units together for financial reporting. Standard smoke and mirrors.

"4M players" says a lot, because that means actual sales are much lower.

 

[Brucey]

"4M players" says a lot, because that means actual sales are much lower.

I think they definitely lost some potential ps5 sales by having it as a timed pc/series release. Just pushes people towards playing Indy on pc gamepass for $12 at release.

Basically if ps5 owners don't buy it in significant quantities which seems unlikely, it's going to have some issues breaking even.

 

[MrTired]

Every quarter since then has seen Gamepass subscription growth Microsoft always report that.

Revenue growth does equal growth in subscription. Satya mention PC growth yoy but did not give number for overall Gamepass sub or mention growth in relation to Gamepass as a whole, why? Because it's actually declining. Also when the report figures in there financial it's yoy not quarter over quarter so your math is wrong big time.

 

[ProtoByte]

Yet Astro Sonys only first party title this year and apparently GOAT of GOAT has an attachment of what 1 in 35?

Let's put this attachment rate shit to bed, shall we?

PlayStation gamers are the highest propensity user base to buy games and buy them at relatively high prices. 70-100 million more games are sold every year on PS platforms than Nintendo platforms (in 2023 for example, it was 286 vs 213), and we all know that more spending goes towards MTX than full games for the PC side of things, with its huuuge 132 MAUs.

Nintendo's highest selling exclusives have a higher attachment rate by virtue of decades old IP and there also not being very much else to viably play on the platform other than 1st parties. But it doesn't extend to everything. Metroid Dread sold 3 million copies on a userbase of more than double what PS5 has now (Switch was at ~133 million at the time) after more than 18 months.

The fact that Astro Bot, sold at 60 dollars as a 3D platform on a next gen PlayStation console made 1.5 million units in a matter of 2 is not too shabby in comparison. To be honest, online virtue signalling about deep desires for smaller and more innovative games aside, it's surprising it was that high.

Now, you compare that to a userbase of (presumably and hopefully) no less than 34 million people who can play Indiana Jones from a perennially PC centric dev at no additional financial cost, plus the 132 million users on Steam only able to eek out 4 million downloads?? For fucking shame.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Totally pro consumer.

This summer will be my second three-year stint in GP ultimate promo. I always buy annual gold so in total I paid an extra $20 total for GP for 6 years coverage.

How anyone can call that anti-consumer is insane.

Heck, I even played MLB The Show on GP. Didnt pay an extra dime.

You understand you are using loopholes and promos and justifying it as pro consumer? The fact is GP offering at list price is not popular. The whole model is flawed from a business perspective.

 

[cireza]

Single digit growth in any sector of your business is horrific and should sound the panic alarm. If phil spencer worked for nintendo or sony his ass would've been gone as soon as he proposed gamepass as a business model to his superiors.

The wonderful quest for infinite growth, the dumbest thing you can wish for.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I think they definitely lost some potential ps5 sales by having it as a timed pc/series release. Just pushes people towards playing Indy on pc gamepass for $12 at release.

Even if Indy would've released on PS5 day 1, it would likely sell on par with gamea like Astro Bot and Stellar Blade at best.

If even the Xbox audience doesn't care that much, the PS5 installbase won't care much either.

Basically if ps5 owners don't buy it in significant quantities which seems unlikely, it's going to have some issues breaking even.

Imagine that we've come to the point where Playstation have to 'safe' Xbox games.
If only to break even.

That's how you know how bad Xbox fucked up.

 

[Felessan]

Nope, GP is the most pro-consumer thing in the gaming market right now, well second only to Epic's free weekly game(s) I guess.

Dumping is also pro-consumer by this logic (it's not)

Microsoft confirmed it was 34m last feb, it’s now grown 30% on pc just in this quarter alone excluding LAST YEARS growth.

They’ll reach 40m subscribers.

We know that content&services practically didn't grow. Even with very strong performance of new CoD.
So PC GP subscriptions predated something - whether it's game sales on Xbox platform (those already anemic) or GP subscriptions on Xbox as players abandon platform and move to PC

 

[sono]

Q2 2025 in January 2025

Just sayin

 

[Mattyp]

Now, you compare that to a userbase of (presumably and hopefully) no less than 34 million people who can play Indiana Jones from a perennially PC centric dev at no additional financial cost, plus the 132 million users on Steam only able to eek out 4 million downloads?? For fucking shame.

I’m still confused on why every gamepass customer needs to play Indy? 1 in 6 are into the game in a month of release. Tones of games release I choose not to play at all and never will, and they’re released on gamepass they do not interest me at all. You could make the exact same argument for Astrobot, 95% or Playstation customers don’t want to play it, it isn’t their taste regardless of the accolades it receives elsewhere.

Gamepass games are not free, the end user is paying a subscription service. The end users time is finite, it’s not some endless consumption of media regardless of how much content is available.

The metric that every gamepass gamer likes and is expected to like the same games and must download every title is bizzare.

We have a game that cost $100m and 4 years of development? Gamepass revenue is half a billion a month, 1/5 of one month of a 4 year period paid for this AAA game.

Gamepass revenue is a split amount with all developers and that’s why we get such a different variety of games. Why haven’t 34 million people grabbed Age of Empires? FlightSim? COD even? I wonder. Ninja Gaiden won’t reach Indiana heights either, as much as many of us here love it. This is the great thing about gamepass, we get riskier titles that a lot of the time wouldn’t be developed otherwise if other games weren’t subsidising them.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I’m still confused on why every gamepass customer needs to play Indy? 1 in 6 are into the game in a month of release. Tones of games release I choose not to play at all and never will, and they’re released on gamepass they do not interest me at all. You could make the exact same argument for Astrobot, 95% or Playstation customers don’t want to play it, it isn’t their taste regardless of the accolades it receives elsewhere.

Bolded is true and points out a big issue with these kind of numbers:

It gets studios closed.

It's no different for Astro Bot, so that isn't a good counter.
Sony Japan Studio got closed for that exact reason, as did many other studios.

 

[Mr Moose]

driven by stronger than expected performance in Blizzard and Activision content, including Call of Duty.

I thought they said Game Pass before? (I know it's on Game Pass, but still).

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Let's put this attachment rate shit to bed, shall we?

PlayStation gamers are the highest propensity user base to buy games and buy them at relatively high prices. 70-100 million more games are sold every year on PS platforms than Nintendo platforms (in 2023 for example, it was 286 vs 213), and we all know that more spending goes towards MTX than full games for the PC side of things, with its huuuge 132 MAUs.

Nintendo's highest selling exclusives have a higher attachment rate by virtue of decades old IP and there also not being very much else to viably play on the platform other than 1st parties. But it doesn't extend to everything. Metroid Dread sold 3 million copies on a userbase of more than double what PS5 has now (Switch was at ~133 million at the time) after more than 18 months.

The fact that Astro Bot, sold at 60 dollars as a 3D platform on a next gen PlayStation console made 1.5 million units in a matter of 2 is not too shabby in comparison. To be honest, online virtue signalling about deep desires for smaller and more innovative games aside, it's surprising it was that high.

Now, you compare that to a userbase of (presumably and hopefully) no less than 34 million people who can play Indiana Jones from a perennially PC centric dev at no additional financial cost, plus the 132 million users on Steam only able to eek out 4 million downloads?? For fucking shame.

Why is it that people keep saying Astro Bot sold 1.5 million units? That was early November after its first 2 months and before it won GOTY.

Astro Bot is probably between 2-3 million units now and it's going to have legs for years. I'd estimate that it will sell at least 5 million units before all is said and done, with potential to sell more in that 7+ million range.

We know Astro Bot has outperformed Silent Hill 2 on PS5, the question is whether Silent Hill 2's steam sales can significantly compensate for that.

The price of the game is a massive factor at the moment.

 

[Three]

You can see the price changes here.

This was 6 months ago, 2 quarters with the increased price yet still setting records. If you're going to say this record in revenue is just because of the price hike, it isn't.

2 quarters with a price increase "and still setting records"? Dude it's 2 quarters, and one of them is the record because it's the only holiday quarter they've had since the price hike.

 

[Felessan]

We know that Astrobot climbed several place in december Circana and was ahead of Indiana and Spiderman2 for the month
So it probably add another 0.5-1mil just due to getting goty on VGA

 

[Mibu no ookami]

We know that Astrobot climbed several place in december Circana and was ahead of Indiana and Spiderman2 for the month
So it probably add another 0.5-1mil just due to getting goty on VGA

The game was sold out in retail for most of December and pretty high on the charts digitally in several regions. Wild for people to parrot this 1.5 million number as if it were likely to be up to date...

 

[ReBurn]

Q2 2025 in January 2025

Just sayin

Fiscal Q2

 

[Mr Moose]

You can see the price changes here.

This was 6 months ago, 2 quarters with the increased price yet still setting records. If you're going to say this record in revenue is just because of the price hike, it isn't.

You have to remember it's YoY so yes, until the date this year as the price increased last year, it should be higher $.

 

[Three]

Q2 2025 in January 2025

Just sayin

It's FY (financial year) not CY (calendar year).

 

[Moridianae]

Yikes. They have some nice games coming up this year, at least it seems so. But if CoD and Indiana Jones being on Game Pass can't really move the needle and hardware continues to tank year over year, it really makes sense to try their new position.

It's looked relatively fruitless for some time now. Wasn't there a holiday season(might have been EU) where they discounted their systems by like $100 and still got outsold by PS nearly 3:1?

US sales have arguably kept them going, but I think they're really starting to slow down even here.

 

[Sanepar]

You guys need to remember that 34mi gamepass numbers include live converted subs that can't access new releases. the real gamepass probably around 20-25 mi. Totally disaster after 8 years.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

I doubt GP subs are anywhere near 40M.

It's a dead end.

Thats why they hidding the numbers of GamePass..and profit...and the sold numbers of Xbox...and the games sold.

 

[DragonNCM]

I just love game of words & numbers.....looks good when you need to try to impress & actually you suck hard.

 

[Mattyp]

I just love game of words & numbers.....looks good when you need to try to impress & actually you suck hard.

Suck? They just did 6.6b for their second highest on record while Sony did 7b last quarter.

We’re talking a 400m difference with 1/5th the hardware sales.

That Microsoft needs to shut down gaming or they’re not profitable takes….

 

[Aguero9320]

Great to see such impressive PC Game Pass growth! Expect that to continue with this year’s stellar release slate.

 

[adamsapple]

2 quarters with a price increase "and still setting records"? Dude it's 2 quarters, and one of them is the record because it's the only holiday quarter they've had since the price hike.

You have to remember it's YoY so yes, until the date this year as the price increased last year, it should be higher $.

The general investor results are, yes. But Satya is specifically talking about GP setting a quarterly revenue record.

I don't think that's a YoY comparison, that's just general game pass quarter results compared to previous quarters et-al.

 

[Mr Moose]

The general investor results are, yes. But Satya is specifically talking about GP setting a quarterly revenue record.

I don't think that's a YoY comparison, that's just general game pass quarter results compared to previous quarters et-al.

Unless they dropped a lot of subs last year, then even if it was the same number of subs, the $ would've increased.
Hard to tell for sure though without numbers.

 

[Three]

Am I counted as part of the PC growth when I downgraded from Ultimate to PC only?

It would be interesting to know how many people abandoned xbox gamepass standard for pc gamepass considering they removed day one from console gamepass. They may even be including those that switched the other way, console standard to Ultimate, as "PC gamepass sub growth".

It's clear they used PC gamepass subs instead of gamepass growth for a reason because the gamepass growth as a whole is a lot more underwhelming than 30%.

 

[Three]

The general investor results are, yes. But Satya is specifically talking about GP setting a quarterly revenue record.

I don't think that's a YoY comparison, that's just general game pass quarter results compared to previous quarters et-al.

It's not a year on year comparison but there is a reason why investors use year on year and it's because revenue is seasonal. This is the first biggest quarter after the price hike so saying it has nothing to do with the price hike is just wrong.

 

[Radical_3d]

In Italy they say that “the Pope enjoys of a great health, until he dies”. It feels a little bit like that with Nadela and some posters here talking about records while their shit is disappearing from retailers worldwide.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Suck? They just did 6.6b for their second highest on record while Sony did 7b last quarter.

We’re talking a 400m difference with 1/5th the hardware sales.

That Microsoft needs to shut down gaming or they’re not profitable takes….

Can you tell us net profit that came from this ordeal?

Revenue talk is meaningless when you burn more money than you actually generate. Even PlayStation, way more healthier division, was under legit pressure to improve profit margins even more.

MS+ABK in it's current form is simply not a viable business, but Papa Satya can at least cover Phil's ass with enterprise cloud and AI money, but we already know that even he is kinda fed up with this whole setup.

 

[Tajaz2426]

What was the net profit? This is all meaningless and PR without it.

Edit: sorry guy above me, it popped up while I was posting mine. My apologies.

 

[Flabagast]

You got to love how OP managed to make a title so misleading for his thread.

Results are not good at all

 

[Topher]

You got to love how OP managed to make a title so misleading for his thread.

Results are not good at all

The title came directly from what was said in the earnings call my man. And it didn't say the results were good so I don't know what your problem is.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

You got to love how OP managed to make a title so misleading for his thread.

Results are not good at all

This is a separate data points from the guidance, Topher did nothing wrong. We have q2 results thread already.

 

[Aguero9320]

The title came directly from what was said in the earnings call my man. And it didn't say the results were good so I don't know what your problem is.

It's because it didn't say "ha ha Microsoft are stinky poopy heads" as the subject header...

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

wait, xbox people think these numbers are a W? they never learn.

 

[Topher]

It's because it didn't say "ha ha Microsoft are stinky poopy heads" as the subject header...

I'll do better next time

 

[Killjoy-NL]

wait, xbox people think these numbers are a W? they never learn.

I think it's certain Xbox fans that think that.

Xbox themselves are just sharing their PR.

 

[Brucey]

Suck? They just did 6.6b for their second highest on record while Sony did 7b last quarter.

We’re talking a 400m difference with 1/5th the hardware sales.

That Microsoft needs to shut down gaming or they’re not profitable takes….

Revenue doesn't equal profit?

They had plenty of revenue from series console hardware. Just that with each console being sold at $100-$200 loss, it was in the end a loss. Generate $10 billion in revenue, at a cost of $12 billion as an example. Is that a success?

That's why their margins are improving, less consoles sold at a loss, cost of revenue is dropping. So as far as the beancounters are concerned if series consoles were to stop selling altogether, it would be excellent news for the margins. Maybe that's why there's reports of places not having stock of series hardware? They just shut down manufacturing and coasting on stock in the channel?

 

[SHA]

There are still many xbox one console gamers who haven't upgraded to series console yet, it sounds like ms rely on these consumers to upgrade their consoles, this site mentions there are 200 millions xbox users as of Dec 31st 2024

39 Xbox Statistics 2025 — Players & Active Users Data

With 200 million active users, Xbox is redefining gaming for millions worldwide. Explore key Xbox statistics, usage trends, & more.

www.demandsage.com

 

[Humdinger]

Saying game pass isn't pro consumer is one of the furthest reaches ive seen.

It's because people look at "pro-consumer" from two different angles. Some just look at it from the personal financial angle - "Look how much money I save on games." Others are looking at sub services' effect on the industry more generally (especially the Day 1, all-in type sub that GP has been). From the first POV, GP is clearly "pro-consumer," because you can play games on the cheap.

From the second POV, though, it's not so clear. It may be anti-consumer from that angle, in the sense that it may undercut profit for the dev team, diminish the possibility of follow-up games, undercut hardware sales (leading to the decline of the Xbox console), or more generally lead to a "quantity over quality" approach that prioritizes "content" over other values (e.g., artistry, excellence). From that standpoint, it would be "anti-consumer," because it would have negative downstream effects on other aspects of the game industry (and therefore, indirectly at least, on gamers).

So it depends on what you're looking at when you say "pro-consumer." Most people are just looking at their pocketbook, but some are looking at broader industry effects, especially in the way MS has implemented it. I think the original fellow was coming at it from the latter perspective (although citing just a single studio wasn't a great way to make his point.)

 

[adamsapple]

Suck? They just did 6.6b for their second highest on record while Sony did 7b last quarter.

We’re talking a 400m difference with 1/5th the hardware sales.

That Microsoft needs to shut down gaming or they’re not profitable takes….

Careful now, you're starting to make too much sense for the takes here. Wait till someone asks you to define exactly how much, to the cent, they made .. if someone already hasn't.

It's because people look at "pro-consumer" from two different angles. Some just look at it from the personal financial angle - "Look how much money I save on games." Others are looking at sub services' effect on the industry more generally (especially the Day 1, all-in type sub that GP has been). From the first POV, GP is clearly "pro-consumer," because you can play games on the cheap.

From the second POV, though, it's not so clear. It may be anti-consumer from that angle, in the sense that it may undercut profit for the dev team, diminish the possibility of follow-up games, undercut hardware sales (leading to the decline of the Xbox console), or more generally lead to a "quantity over quality" approach that prioritizes "content" over other values (e.g., artistry, excellence). From that standpoint, it would be "anti-consumer," because it would have negative downstream effects on other aspects of the game industry (and therefore, indirectly at least, on gamers).

I would label the second PoV as more pro-consumption than pro-consumer, personally.

Most of us, when we talk about GP being pro-consumer, talk from a PoV of how it's effecting us, the consumer, where it is undeniably a great deal.

 

[Brucey]

Careful now, you're starting to make too much sense for the takes here. Wait till someone asks you to define exactly how much, to the cent, they made .. if someone already hasn't.



I would label the second PoV as more pro-consumption than pro-consumer, personally.

Most of us, when we talk about GP being pro-consumer, talk from a PoV of how it's effecting us, the consumer, where it is undeniably a great deal.

Seems like every quarter we go through this. A bunch of folk start bragging about revenue. They are reminded that revenue doesn't equal profit/income.

Cycle then repeats in three months, retention must be difficult...

 

[Topher]

There are still many xbox one console gamers who haven't upgraded to series console yet, it sounds like ms rely on these consumers to upgrade their consoles, this site mentions there are 200 millions xbox users as of Dec 31st 2024

39 Xbox Statistics 2025 — Players & Active Users Data

With 200 million active users, Xbox is redefining gaming for millions worldwide. Explore key Xbox statistics, usage trends, & more.

www.demandsage.com

Those are not just Xbox console users. It includes PC and mobile as well.

 

[adamsapple]

Seems like every quarter we go through this. A bunch of folk start bragging about revenue. They are reminded that revenue doesn't equal profit/income.

Yes, you don't have to remind us. Most people generally know that revenue =/= profit. But a healthy revenue stream is still a healthy revenue stream.

For reference, even Sony doesn't talk about PS+ numbers now either, that MS is still doling out info about Game Pass's quarterly earnings is still something.

 

[Mr Moose]

Suck? They just did 6.6b for their second highest on record while Sony did 7b last quarter.

We’re talking a 400m difference with 1/5th the hardware sales.

That Microsoft needs to shut down gaming or they’re not profitable takes….

You know that wasn't the same timeframe, right?

Three months ended September 30, 2024

Sony hasn't released this Q figures.

 

[Topher]

Yes, you don't have to remind us. Most people generally know that revenue =/= profit. But a healthy revenue stream is still a healthy revenue stream.

For reference, even Sony doesn't talk about PS+ numbers now either, that MS is still doling out info about Game Pass's quarterly earnings is still something.

No one needs to be reminded that 6.6b in revenue is a lot of money in order to deflect from the 7% decrease either.