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[McHuj]

If you were a developer would you consider even starting development of a PSV title now? If you were a publisher, would you pickup a title for the PSV now? If I were in the shoes of either, I wouldn't.

I think it's getting to the point where the Vita won't be able to turn it around because less and less developers will want to take the risk. I could even see someone that's very early in the development cycle moving a project to another platform at this point.

 

[FLEABttn]

At least my iPhone came with storage. I didn't have to buy the phone and also buy a proprietary memory card just to be able to use it.

When a phone costs ~$600 at release, it had damn well better come with storage.

 

[test_account]

At least my iPhone came with storage. I didn't have to buy the phone and also buy a proprietary memory card just to be able to use it.

I also enjoy being able to browse the app store on my computer and buy directly from there and then transfer to my phone when/if I want to. That makes it MUCH easier to deal the limited (and fixed) amount of storage on the device.

For such a price for a phone, it better come with some storage

EDIT: Wow, this is the 2nd time today i've written basically the exact same thing as someone else at the same time.

 

[Tobor]

When a phone costs ~$600 at release, it had damn well better come with storage.

When a dedicated handheld costs $250, it had damn well better come with storage as well.

 

[FLEABttn]

When a dedicated handheld costs $250, it had damn well better come with storage as well.

It did. Mine came with 8 gigs. Do they not come with anything anymore?

 

[fabricated backlash]

When a dedicated handheld costs $250, it had damn well better come with storage as well.

This is really what boggles my mind about the Vita. They have a gorgeous Oled, an amazing battery, great materials but no internal memory... hell even 2GB would be more than enough for most to start out.
By comparison my 3DS 2GB + internal memory held quite a while, and I upgraded to 16 GB for almost nothing last month.

 

[test_account]

This is really what boggles my mind about the Vita. They have a gorgeous Oled, an amazing battery, great materials but no internal memory... hell even 2GB would be more than enough for most to start out.
By comparison my 3DS 2GB + internal memory held quite a while, and I upgraded to 16 GB for almost nothing last month.

Its part of the business model, that is the only reason.

 

[Cheech]

I kind of hope that Sony stock will drop so low that a smart company like Apple or MSFT will gobble them up.

First, great username. One of the greatest YouTube vids of all time.

Second, I don't think anyone buying Sony would be "smart" unless they have a specific plan for their manufacturing. And that manufacturing most assuredly will not be overpriced TVs and game consoles nobody is buying, nor will it be for worthless IP like LittleBigPlanet.

 

[allan-bh]

Any word if 47K number is for Theatrhythm or PS Vita?

 

[Tobor]

It did. Mine came with 8 gigs. Do they not come with anything anymore?

For $250? They never did, unless you found a special retailer deal.

Mine certainly didn't.

 

[Mpl90]

Any word if 47K number is for Theatrhythm or PS Vita?

At this point, I'd say it could be for both XD

Spoiler

Neither of them will be that far from that number, however

 

[Daydream Sequence]

It did. Mine came with 8 gigs. Do they not come with anything anymore?

Vita never came with included memory unless the retailer did so in an attempt to move product. Sony's never done it.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I really don't how many units SEGA expected from this.
On DS, a lot of niche games survived with very small numbers (30-40k), though.

I think we're lucky SOA bothered publishing it at all after their new digital directive. As is it's shipments are super low and there's been regional sellouts, I think retailers are still pretty hesitant to stock 3rd party 3DS games after the huge launch inventories they ended up saddled with. Same thing happened with Sonic Generations, Tales of the Abyss and RE Revelations to some degree.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Its part of the business model, that is the only reason.

A pretty crappy business model if you ask me. Having a Handheld that was supposed to be heavy on the all digital front have no internal storage or at least a replacable storage bundled (2GB would be enough for most again) is a rip off.
It's inconsitent with the otherwise amazing package that the Vita offers and just screams cutting corners at the wrong places.

Add to that, that pretty much most consumers are sick of Sony forcing their own craptastic memory standards onto consumers again and you can see why at least those in the known are either lukewarm about Vita or miffed.

I still maintain that Sony should turn the fate of the Vita around.

Games, bundled storage, agressive release schedule and first party support should be the bare minimum.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I think we're lucky SOA bothered publishing it at all after their new digital directive. As is it's shipments are super low and there's been regional sellouts, I think retailers are still pretty hesitant to stock 3rd party 3DS games after the huge launch inventories they ended up saddled with. Same thing happened with Sonic Generations, Tales of the Abyss and RE Revelations to some degree.

Sonic Generations started weak and has ended up around ~240K, correct?

 

[jcm]

I kind of hope that Sony stock will drop so low that a smart company like Apple or MSFT will gobble them up.

Why on earth would any smart company gobble them up? I would argue that the act of acquiring Sony automatically disqualifies you from the adjective "smart".

Of course, one of your examples of a smart company tried to pay $45B for Yahoo, so I guess you're using a different definition than I am.

 

[Man God]

They've definitely been tightly controlling the print runs of 3DS games, though if you remember way back when the same thing happened in the first two years of the DS.

 

[Mpl90]

Sonic Generations started weak and has ended up around ~240K, correct?

Almost at 250k updated to last month, correct.

And I firmly believe they're not being esitant with Kingdom Hearts, at least. I expect pretty good numbers from it.

 

[RurouniZel]

Sonic Generations started weak and has ended up around ~240K, correct?

On 3DS?

 

[1-D_FTW]

If you were a developer would you consider even starting development of a PSV title now? If you were a publisher, would you pickup a title for the PSV now? If I were in the shoes of either, I wouldn't.

I think it's getting to the point where the Vita won't be able to turn it around because less and less developers will want to take the risk. I could even see someone that's very early in the development cycle moving a project to another platform at this point.

Considering in the land of dedicated handhelds, Japan, they can't put a single piece of software in the top 30 weeklies? No. I don't see how the thing is revived at this point.

Honestly, IF they were making money on this thing, and it seems dubious at this point, they'd be better off letting firmware hacks get released into the wild. This thing would be the ultimate emulation machine and they would probably sell a bucketload if people could use if for that.

The whole thing about piracy at this point is moot. There isn't any software selling on the thing anyways. It's not like having a locked down environment is going to entice publishers when the software sales charts are deserted anyways.

 

[test_account]

A pretty crappy business model if you ask me. Having a Handheld that was supposed to be heavy on the all digital front have no internal storage or at least a replacable storage bundled (2GB would be enough for most again) is a rip off.
It's inconsitent with the otherwise amazing package that the Vita offers and just screams cutting corners at the wrong places.

Add to that, that pretty much most consumers are sick of Sony forcing their own craptastic memory standards onto consumers again and you can see why at least those in the known are either lukewarm about Vita or miffed.

I still maintain that Sony should turn the fate of the Vita around.

Games, bundled storage, agressive release schedule and first party support should be the bare minimum.

Having 2GB of space would be crappy for the digital front anyway. In many cases, that wouldnt even be enough to store one retail game. It would be enough for savegames and a few smaller games, but that is pretty much it. It would be nice for people who arent interested in the digital download stuff, but if you plan to buy much digital download stuff, then 2GB would "force" you to buy an extra memorycard regardless.

In comparison, Nintendo is also trying to get much digital download stuff on the WiiU, yet it comes with 8GB storage (which is probably used for OS as well, meaning that you'd have less than 8GB free). That will be enough for like one retail game. The difference here is that you most likey can use any HDD, but the principle about having to invest extra for extra storage is the same. Same thing here, the 8GB storage is a part of their business model, trying to keep the costs down.

You'll probably see a bundled Vita with memory card sometime in the future.

 

[Pillville]

When a phone costs ~$600 at release, it had damn well better come with storage.

I paid $199 for my phone (with 2 year plan)

 

[Culex]

Having 2GB of space would be crappy for the digital front anyway. In many cases, that wouldnt even be enough to store one retail game. It would be enough for savegames and a few smaller games, but that is pretty much it. It would be nice for people who arent interested in the digital download stuff, but if you plan to buy much digital download stuff, then 2GB would "force" you to buy an extra memorycard regardless.

In comparison, Nintendo is also trying to get much digital download stuff on the WiiU, yet it comes with 8GB storage (which is probably used for OS as well, meaning that you'd have less than 8GB free). That will be enough for like one retail game. The difference here is that you most likey can use any HDD, but the principle about having to invest extra for extra storage is the same. Same thing here, the 8GB storage is a part of their business model, trying to keep the costs down.

You'll probably see a bundled Vita with memory card sometime in the future.

We don't know exactly how much internal storage is in the final unit. Nothing from Nintendo has stated the amount of flash storage.

 

[Qurupeke]

Pokémon Conquest =D Great news and I hope that Pokémon company will realize that such games have potential.

 

[Canis lupus]

I paid $199 for my phone (with 2 year plan)

Then you probably pay more than 600 bucks in total.

 

[Vic]

Why you guys are still trying to paint a scenario where the Vita can recover? You can't revive the dead.

 

[Cipherr]

Why you guys are still trying to paint a scenario where the Vita can recover? You can't revive the dead.

I'm still not completely convinced it cannot etch out a life for itself. But time is slipping slipping slipping away. This shit has got to end, they need price cut followed by a long stream of games stacked on top of upcoming game announcements for titles people want to play. If they dont pull that, or something similar out of their rear ends soon, this thing is going to crater and I will be drowned in "iOS/Android gaming kills handhelds" articles on my feeds and Flipboard for the next 2 years.

It does however look like Nintendo is going to do fine with their handheld this gen. Its not going to match the best ever, but it definitely seems poised to move units and make them money while having a great software lineup.

 

[John Harker]

At this point, square would probably be happy if therthym had sold 47k

 

[Mpl90]

At this point, square would probably be happy if therthym had sold 47k

So, lower than that? And Vita did 47k.

 

[metalslimer]

At this point, square would probably be happy if therthym had sold 47k

DAMN!! Man, the situation for 3rd party games on 3DS in the west is not looking great at all. If it didn't even sell close to 47k then Rhythm Thief and Heroes of Ruin are bigger bombs than I thought. It's looks like Kingdom Hearts is up next.

 

[Currygan]

I'm still not completely convinced it cannot etch out a life for itself. But time is slipping slipping slipping away. This shit has got to end, they need price cut followed by a long stream of games stacked on top of upcoming game announcements for titles people want to play. If they dont pull that, or something similar out of their rear ends soon, this thing is going to crater and I will be drowned in "iOS/Android gaming kills handhelds" articles on my feeds and Flipboard for the next 2 years.

It does however look like Nintendo is going to do fine with their handheld this gen. Its not going to match the best ever, but it definitely seems poised to move units and make them money while having a great software lineup.

those articles would be bollocks so you can save yourself the pain

 

[LosDaddie]

Is anybody honestly surprised by PSV's performance thus far? I know SonyGAF was saying the handheld had a good shot at being a success, even at $250, but I knew it would struggle. The market is just so drastically different from when the DS and PSP came out.

 

[Mpl90]

DAMN!! Man, the situation for 3rd party games on 3DS in the west is not looking great at all. If it didn't even sell close to 47k then Rhythm Thief and Heroes of Ruin are bigger bombs than I thought.

Unfortunately, both Rhythm Thief and Heroes of Ruin had bomba written so much, especially Rhythm Thief. No advertising, no pre-release hype. Just Theatrhythm had a bit of pre-release hype but no promotion at all IIRC, and it was always destined to do not good numbers, at least in its debut. I mean, Theatrhythm is a low budget spin-off. Great game, sure, but a low budget spin-off not advertised at all with a good source of revenue coming from DLC. Aaaand probably very low shipments ( on Amazon it's still sold out ) 50k would have been a good first month.

About the 3rd party Western situation, wait for KH as the first convincing seller after Sonic Generations, Skylanders and the various Lego titles. If that doesn't do good, it's time to worry, certainly those aren't the titles which can show 3DS' sales potential.

 

[donny2112]

Pokémon Conquest =D Great news and I hope that Pokémon company will realize that such games have potential.

#3 on individual SKUs is 88K. Pokemon Conquest is #9. Probably not too high (but probably also a ton of bunching from 3-50). o.o

At this point, square would probably be happy if therthym had sold 47k

Oh.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Then you probably pay more than 600 bucks in total.

Assuming a $20 per month plan, that's $480 + the inital $199 for damn-near $700. I'd imagine the typical plan in the US is more like $30-40 a month though, so you'd be looking at something spending a couple of hundred dollars over and above the BIN price upfront by the time you're done paying it up.

 

[donny2112]

Assuming a $20 per month plan

Usually they include data, so more like $50+ a month (unless you're just talking about adding a line to an existing plan).

 

[Loghorn150]

PS Vita is the new Game Gear?

Vita = The next Game Gear & N-Gage.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

On 3DS?

Maybe not quite to 240 yet. But probably getting close. (I saw 225K being thrown around recently.)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39985160&postcount=1118

At the very least, we know it's over 200K.

 

[test_account]

We don't know exactly how much internal storage is in the final unit. Nothing from Nintendo has stated the amount of flash storage.

I see. So the 8GB is just a pure rumor? Meaning there is a chance that there will be less than 8GB? Looking forward to see the final WiiU specs.

 

[Bruno MB]

Unfortunately, both Rhythm Thief and Heroes of Ruin had bomba written so much, especially Rhythm Thief. No advertising, no pre-release hype. Just Theatrhythm had a bit of pre-release hype but no promotion at all IIRC, and it was always destined to do not good numbers, at least in its debut. I mean, Theatrhythm is a low budget spin-off. Great game, sure, but a low budget spin-off not advertised at all with a good source of revenue coming from DLC. Aaaand probably very low shipments ( on Amazon it's still sold out ) 50k would have been a good first month.

About the 3rd party Western situation, wait for KH as the first convincing seller after Sonic Generations, Skylanders and the various Lego titles. If that doesn't do good, it's time to worry, certainly those aren't the titles which can show 3DS' sales potential.

Kingdom Hearts 3D will have a full month of sales, how much do you think it should sell to be a success?

 

[allan-bh]

At this point, square would probably be happy if therthym had sold 47k

Thanks for Vita number.

 

[Mpl90]

Kingdom Hearts 3D will have a full month of sales, ¿how much do you think it should sell to be a success?

Let's see. KH 358/2 Days obtained to do almost 200k in few days. Then, it had legendary legs, but that's another story. KH Birth by Sleep did 225k in its first month, released on 9th September 2010 (period considered by NPD: Aug 28-Oct 1). So, KH3D first month is in a similar timeframe compared to KHBbs. There will be the revision too this month.

Mmmmh, I'd say a 320k first month would be decent, it's the low bar for the title. More than 400k would be good. It could surprise as well as it's doing in Europe ( more than what we expect, something like 450k, but a 450k first month seems too high as an estimate to me).

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Is anybody honestly surprised by PSV's performance thus far? I know SonyGAF was saying the handheld had a good shot at being a success, even at $250, but I knew it would struggle. The market is just so drastically different from when the DS and PSP came out.

More like the handheld market for a $250+ handheld only existed briefly, in 2005 for the PSP, AKA Little King set to bring the handheld market out of the gutter and into the PS2 glory. Though it was merely built by hype and didn't really exist.

Vita = The next Game Gear & N-Gage.

Those 2 aren't quite like each other, and I don't think the Vita is like either. The Game Gear sold over 10 million (not sure how many years it actually sold) when the Gameboy was selling about 7-8 million a year. I'd rank it closer to the PSP. The N-Gage sold 3 million when the DS/PSP were selling 30 million a year. The Vita will end up in between those two relatively, though closer to the Game Gear.

Let's see. KH 358/2 Days obtained to do almost 200k in few days. Then, it had legendary legs, but that's another story. KH Birth by Sleep did 225k in its first month, released on 9th September 2010 (period considered by NPD: Aug 28-Oct 1). So, KH3D first month is in a similar timeframe compared to KHBbs. There will be the revision too this month.

Mmmmh, I'd say a 320k first month would be decent, it's the low bar for the title. More than 400k would be good. It could surprise as well as it's doing in Europe ( more than what we expect, something like 450k, but a 450k first month seems too high as an estimate to me).

Given how it's done in Japan I wouldn't be surprised by it doing more like 150k. 358/2 Days released on a bigger system, when KH was more relevent, and was cheaper. 358/2 Days' legs probably had something to do with it being $20 new everytime I saw it, I boought it for $15 new off Amazon for example.

 

[Culex]

I see. So the 8GB is just a pure rumor? Meaning there is a chance that there will be less than 8GB? Looking forward to see the final WiiU specs.

Correct. Speculation from the dev kit suggested 8 GB flash memory. Whether it's 8 gigs, less or more... no one knows for sure (and if they do, can't say).

I'm going to say 16 gig, and be really optimistic.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

i think that while the hw is absolutely stunning it was actually designed to fail...when sony designed the hw they had gaf in mind, and that's the mistake as others have pointed out.

It's strange that decided to cater more towards the western market with the Vita ...

No, I think Sony's strategy was squarely on the Japanese market. They knew that Japan was the land of portables and they had experienced so much success with MonHun that they basically decided to make a system that was going to be the best way to play it. It would be a console on the go with dual-analogs, etc. It would easily outclass Nintendo's system. The Japanese would eat it up. As a mere side benefit, they could finally make decent handheld FPSs for the West.

Unfortunately, somewhere along the line after it was too late to change course, Nintendo made a deal with Capcom for MonHun. I am sure that internally, Sony was devastated, but at that point it was too late to turn back so they went ahead with the Vita plan. I don't think they are terribly surprised at the outcome, TBH. Maybe at the degree of it, but not that they are doing poorly in general. The way they have behaved since Vita's launch reinforces that belief.

I know i am only one person but i wanted a Vita and the rip off of a memory card that you have to buy was the nail in the coffin for my purchase of the Vita.

While the MSRP of Vita was $250, in my mind the cost was $350. I knew I wasn't going to buy that thing without the 32GB card as buying the smaller ones would ultimately be a waste of money if the system caught on or was hacked. I am glad that I purchased one without a bundled small-capacity card as I would have just had to sell it for the 32GB.

 

[allan-bh]

Let's see. KH 358/2 Days obtained to do almost 200k in few days. Then, it had legendary legs, but that's another story.

You have LTD for 358/2 Days?

 

[jmdajr]

Batman

 

[Celine]

You have LTD for 358/2 Days?

Just short of 1 million in US.

 

[allan-bh]

Just short of 1 million in US.

Impressive

 

[Frillen]

Let's see. KH 358/2 Days obtained to do almost 200k in few days. Then, it had legendary legs, but that's another story. KH Birth by Sleep did 225k in its first month, released on 9th September 2010 (period considered by NPD: Aug 28-Oct 1). So, KH3D first month is in a similar timeframe compared to KHBbs. There will be the revision too this month.

Mmmmh, I'd say a 320k first month would be decent, it's the low bar for the title. More than 400k would be good. It could surprise as well as it's doing in Europe ( more than what we expect, something like 450k, but a 450k first month seems too high as an estimate to me).

Yeah, I'm guessing somewhere between 300k and 400k. Hopefully the XL will give it a push as well.