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[FunkMiller]

The Series X is “dead at the door” because of the Series S. Microsoft marketed it to the masses as “the same but cheaper” so people bought it rather than the X. Only enthusiasts or people who wanted access to physical media paid attention to the deeper differences.

And then they told devs that they HAD to ensure feature parity so Microsoft could make good on those marketing claims to the masses (which inevitably blew up in their faces with BG3, handing a win to Sony in the process).

We will never know what the Series X might have sold if they had taken the PS5 path (both using the same hardware, one omitting the optical drive). The only thing we can say for certain, thanks to the now redacted FTC leaks, is that the Series S cannibalized sales of the Series X to a significant degree.

The idiocy and denial around how stupid the Series S is was a prime example of fanboyism taken to its natural limits. It was blindingly obvious that putting out weaker, cheaper hardware would hamstring developers, and ruin the chances of the more powerful, decent console being a success. Such a stupid strategy.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Would you trust someone like Spencer to make the proper decision to make Xbox a stronger brand?

Dude literally has had blank checks and is killing the hardware division

But what if going 3rd party was the plan long-term?

 

[LordOcidax]

HA...call me what you want...but I have a 4090...and I play 100% of my games on PC. I'm just seeing the writings on the wall...and I believe the console makers have as well, hence all the Sony exclusives I play on PC currently.

People should just be happy they get to play more games. The only folks this bothers are the ones who can't stand to see other gamers enjoying what they have enjoyed. When Xbox said their games are going to Playstation...I was like "Good, hopefully Sony wises up". When Sony brought their games to PC and Totoki doubled down on his commitment to bringing games to other platforms I said the same thing.

I don't understand how this is a bad thing. Everybody eats. Sony makes more money, Xbox makes more money. More of us get access to more games. Where's the downside?

Same here. I have a gaming PC and the 3 consoles, i love the GP ultimate because the price, but the logic doesn’t work here because excellent Gaf analysts can’t understand that gaming industry is a business, and companies just want to make more money and doesn’t care about gaming forums and “hadcore” fans.

 

[drganon]

I see...not one coherent thought to bring to the conversation then.

Do I even dare ask what makes this funny to you? Or is that going to be too much pressure?

You trying to spin Microsoft's failings is the funny part. I don't owe you a fucking essay.

 

[onQ123]

Again, you can't say that for sure. I think the X would be at least a few million higher if there was no S, but we'll never know for sure. Xbox had many issues, the one main sku model would not have been enough to turn it around.

Do you think they would have done better with no Series X at all? That makes no sense saying it out loud but it's kind of what the Series S did to the brand, in my opinion.

I can say for sure how in the hell would taking away the best selling Series console make the sells better?

 

[Jigsaah]

Same here. I have a gaming PC and the 3 consoles, i love the GP ultimate because the price, but the logic doesn’t work here because Gaf excellent analysts can’t understand that gaming industry is a business, and companies just want to make more money and doesn’t care about gaming forums and “hadcore” fans.

Sure, I've said before that the wants of the fanboy stray far away from the goals of a company.

Think Sony lost 10 billion in stock and is not looking for another way to regain investors' trust? After lowering their projection for console sales?

Things are changing very fast. Faster than most would want to admit. If folks would only pull the fanboy-colored glasses off their face, they would begin to see this.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

"Good, hopefully Sony wises up".

Microsoft only "wised up" because everything else they tried failed. Sony isn't in that boat. That's why they can bring their games to PC after a duration and they can retain an exclusive status/unit pushing potential.

 

[Jigsaah]

You trying to spin Microsoft's failings is the funny part. I don't owe you a fucking essay.

I'm not spinning anything...I'm asking questions...and maybe giving a prediction or two based on my own observations.

Nobody's asking you for essay dude. Regardless, you speak but still aren't sayin shit...starting to feel like this is a lost cause

I'm gonna move on, ok? Not worth talking to you.

 

[Zheph]

Same here. I have a gaming PC and the 3 consoles, i love the GP ultimate because the price, but the logic doesn’t work here because excellent Gaf analysts can’t understand that gaming industry is a business, and companies just want to make more money and doesn’t care about gaming forums and “hadcore” fans.

No doubt having your hardware at a crazy low and getting worst YoY is caring about gaming forum and "hadcore" fans, nothing to do with money or business.

 

[Unknown?]

So at what point is ABK considered synonymous with Xbox?

The money is still going in Microsoft's pocket is it not?

It kinda like how people say they are gonna buy a PC because they don't want to own an Xbox. But...Microsoft also owns Windows....soooo...you're still paying them.

Same with Xbox games on PS5...people laugh about this happening, but Playstation owners are sucking these games up...at full price or close to full price no less while Xbox owners with Gamepass are paying much less,,,,and for all those games amongst others. Still paying Xbox.

When software is the major revenue driver for all gaming companies, including Sony, you start to see the slow creep...this trojan horse that Microsoft is delivering to every screen as they've portended to do.

The hardware sales are worrying because even with ABK it didn't push console sales on the one hand, but everything is multiplat anyways so that's pretty much what Microsoft said during the ABK hearings would happen.

The question is, can Xbox survive without the hardware sales? I think it depends on how quickly and effectively they transition to this "xbox on every screen" mantra. Also, there's still next gen and the rumor that an Xbox handheld is in the works.

Could they prove to be as successful as a Steam Deck? Given that they want Steam and Epic on their device? With a console that now has access to a good majority of PC exclusive games...pretty much instantly on release?

I dunno honestly. The only thing I'm sure of is this game is far from over.

My PC doesn't have windows... AND I play games on it just fine.

 

[Jigsaah]

My PC doesn't have windows... AND I play games on it just fine.

That makes one of you.

 

[user friendly]

I can say for sure how in the hell would taking away the best selling Series console make the sells better?

It was best selling because it was cheaper. Once people got a taste, like with most cheaper options, there wasn't much to savour. I think the S hurt the brand. Saying its best selling when overall sales were garbage isn't saying a lot.

 

[drganon]

I'm not spinning anything...I'm asking questions...and maybe giving a prediction or two based on my own observations.

Nobody's asking you for essay dude. Regardless, you speak but still aren't sayin shit...starting to feel like this is a lost cause

I'm gonna move on, ok? Not worth talking to you.

 

[Unknown?]

That makes one of you.

Wow.

 

[King Dazzar]

Would you trust someone like Spencer to make the proper decision to make Xbox a stronger brand?

Dude literally has had blank checks and is killing the hardware division

Part of me fully agrees, yet I still think he's doing fine internally within MS. Am I a million miles out? What's your take on his relationship with Natyella? You think Spencer is still part of it long-term?

 

[Jigsaah]

Wow.

Sorry, not to be an asshole...but if you're running Linux or I guess a Mac...you are definitely in the minority.

Regardless, I'm glad you're part of the PC community. Who you pay doesn't matter, as long as you get the most out of it.

 

[onQ123]

It was best selling because it was cheaper. Once people got a taste, like with most cheaper options, there wasn't much to savour. I think the S hurt the brand. Saying its best selling when overall sales were garbage isn't saying a lot.

Series S hurt the brand? How?

If Series X isn't selling maybe it's the X that hurt the brand

 

[Jigsaah]

Series S hurt the brand? How?

If Series X isn't selling maybe it's the X that hurt the brand

I think the 2 SKU strategy overall hurt Xbox sales. I understand the idea behind it...lower barrier to entry...get more folks on Gamepass. It makes sense on paper. But I feel as though it was Microsoft essentially admitting defeat.

Going up against the PS5 when the majority of your users have the S...means most of your users are playing games at a lower quality than the competition. If it comes down to those folks buying another console as an upgrade, they most likely will go with the PS5 anyways. So essentially Xbox's strategy defeated itself in a way.

 

[user friendly]

Series S hurt the brand? How?

If Series X isn't selling maybe it's the X that hurt the brand

I've already stated why in my opinion.

Yeah, drop the X. The similar spec sku to the PS5. Xbox is now known more for it's Series S, which was a weaker system compared to the experience on both PS5's sku's.

That's what I was kind of saying, thinking of not having the X at all would leave the S which is a last gen (half step) system in my opinion. It's silly because you would have a console that is a lot less powerful than its competitors offering. That's what MS did by making the less powerful sku the most popular. This was only one facet of the overall issue though.

 

[user friendly]

I think the 2 SKU strategy overall hurt Xbox sales. I understand the idea behind it...lower barrier to entry...get more folks on Gamepass. It makes sense on paper. But I feel as though it was Microsoft essentially admitting defeat.

Going up against the PS5 when the majority of your users have the S...means most of your users are playing games at a lower quality than the competition. If it comes down to those folks buying another console as an upgrade, they most likely will go with the PS5 anyways. So essentially Xbox's strategy defeated itself in a way.

Yeah, they're not going to go out and buy the Series X after buying the S. Sure some but not the masses.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I assume the PS5 Pro will be priced ridiculously high. I had high hopes for the PS5, but apparantly they've kept the same lead designer who designed the abomination that is the PS5 for some reason.

Abomination?

I think it's pretty cool to see a 9Tflop machine going toe-to-toe with a 12Tflop machine.

 

[onQ123]

I've already stated why in my opinion.

Yeah, drop the X. The similar spec sku to the PS5. Xbox is now known more for it's Series S, which was a weaker system compared to the experience on both PS5's sku's.

That's what I was kind of saying, thinking of not having the X at all would leave the S which is a last gen (half step) system in my opinion. It's silly because you would have a console that is a lot less powerful than its competitors offering. That's what MS did by making the less powerful sku the most popular. This was only one facet of the overall issue though.

Reality is that most people buying consoles don't give a damn about the specs .

Switch is still selling 7 years into it's life but you're claiming that Series S hurt Xbox brand?

So why didn't Xbox One X & Series X set the world on fire?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Reality is that most people buying consoles don't give a damn about the specs .

Switch is still selling 7 years into it's life but you're claiming that Series S hurt Xbox brand?

So why didn't Xbox One X & Series X set the world on fire?

Switch is cheaper and handheld and has exclusives

 

[user friendly]

Reality is that most people buying consoles don't give a damn about the specs .

Switch is still selling 7 years into it's life but you're claiming that Series S hurt Xbox brand?

So why didn't Xbox One X & Series X set the world on fire?

Last line of my post, it's only one facet of the overall issue. MS's strategy has been garbage these last two gens. GP could have been good but it wasn't set up to support the industry properly. Should have only been older games and maybe a free week or something with newer games. Their output of good games has also left a lot to be desired. Most of the good games are also available on PS5, and PS5 also has really good games that aren't available on Xbox.

I think a market with just the Series X would have been better for MS but it's just my opinion.

Switch is on another level, Nintendo is killing it for many reasons and I don't usually align them with Sony or MS.

 

[LordOcidax]

Switch is cheaper and handheld and has exclusives

And what about the Wii? Or the PS2…

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

And what about the Wii? Or the PS2…

Wii was cheap as well and had its own catching gimmick and huge exclusives and PS2 had LOADS of exclusives as well as being BC with the highest selling system ever at the time

 

[LordOcidax]

Wii was cheap as well and had its own catching gimmick and huge exclusives and PS2 had LOADS of exclusives as well as being BC with the highest selling system ever at the time

You are proving his point then… Power doesn’t sell to masses.

 

[Topher]

You are proving his point then… Power doesn’t sell to masses.

Not by itself, no. But if the "masses" see one console getting the better version of games at a cheaper price then that is going to make a difference. That scenario benefitted both the Xbox 360 and the PS4.

 

[hinch7]

You are proving his point then… Power doesn’t sell to masses.

The problem is, as always the software. Xbox has been terrible with exclusives this generation. And the last was also weak. Its a downward trend and owning an Xbox may just not be as popular as it once was.

Additionally Xbox games are available day one on PC. And were available for only $1 a month, either via trials or conversion, for years on GP; when it was abusable. Further diluting the brand and its appeal. Now that Microsoft has fixed GP prices, consumers lost interest and here we are.

 

[user friendly]

And what about the Wii? Or the PS2…

That's different though.

There was only one main sku for both Wii and PS2. There weren't less powerful versions of each for consumers to choose from.

The argument is that consumers have to make a choice between two sku's, one being cheaper but also less powerful.

People end up buying the cheaper, less powerful sku and now that is their perception of the brand.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

You are proving his point then… Power doesn’t sell to masses.

Well it's certainly not the ONLY thing. PS2 was a big step up from PS1 though and not some middle gen thing

 

[Killjoy-NL]

That's different though.

There was only one main sku for both Wii and PS2. There weren't less powerful versions of each for consumers to choose from.

The argument is that consumers have to make a choice between two sku's, one being cheaper but also less powerful.

People end up buying the cheaper, less powerful sku and now that is their perception of the brand.

Except PS5 Disc easily outsells PS5 Digital, despite both having the exact same power and Disc being €100 more expensive.

People just buy whatever offers the best value for it's price.

 

[user friendly]

Except PS5 Disc easily outsells PS5 Digital, despite both having the exact same power and Disc being €100 more expensive.

People just buy whatever offers the best value for it's price.

Digital PS5 is same specs though. Would it be the same if it were also less powerful? Playstation did it the right way by making specs the same.

I have disc version as well, wouldn't have it any other way!

Also yes, with GP, it made more sense for most to buy Series S.

 

[Mr Moose]

Switch is cheaper and handheld and has exclusives

Switch (OLED) is £50 more expensive than a Series S.
Same price as a 1TB Series S.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Wow its almost like this is what happens when you barely put out any exclusives and then put the few you do have on other consoles.

 

[TBiddy]

Abomination?

I think it's pretty cool to see a 9Tflop machine going toe-to-toe with a 12Tflop machine.

I'm talking about the looks.

It is exactly as I stated. Acting superior while displaying the same behavior you're complaining about is bogus.

You can enjoy a company/sports team and ignore the detractors. If you engage, it's because you want to.

Sure. But most people engaged in anything gets annoyed when the most hardcore fans are screaming their lungs out anytime they get a chance. I'm sure you know the feeling.

How do you know they kept the same designer?

I don't, but I'm guessing they did, since it's a near copy, just smaller.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Sure. But most people engaged in anything gets annoyed when the most hardcore fans are screaming their lungs out anytime they get a chance. I'm sure you know the feeling.

Eh, I see that from all fans of kinds. It's in the nature of the beast. It is also just as easy to ignore them (be it through the site or otherwise).

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Xbox makes more money.

they are not.

thats the "elephant in the room"

 

[Jigsaah]

they are not.

thats the "elephant in the room"

Are you saying that if Xbox is selling games on PS5 they aren't making more money? Mind you I said "more" as in...just more...not necessarily more than Sony.

Please tell me you didn't take this out of context...

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Are you saying that if Xbox is selling games on PS5 they aren't making more money? Mind you I said "more" as in...just more...not necessarily more than Sony.

Please tell me you didn't take this out of context...

they havent. that's the point

releasing games in multiple platforms dosen't necessarily means making more money.

CP 2077 made around 700M in revenue on PS, Xbox, PC and Stadia

GOW Ragnarok made around 800M in revenue only on PS

explain that.

and the point of First Party games (conceptually speaking) is not to make money but they are used as a way to market your console/platform to grow it's market share and then make money from the 30% cut.

 

[Jigsaah]

they havent. that's the point

releasing games in multiple platforms dosen't necessarily means making more money.

CP 2077 made around 700M in revenue on PS, Xbox, PC and Stadia

GOW Ragnarok made around 800M in revenue only on PS

explain that.

and the point of First Party games (conceptually speaking) is not to make money but they are used as a way to market your console/platform to grow it's market share and then make money from the 30% cut.

Ok...what I'm saying is that when PLaystation and Xbox bring their games to more platforms...there is a greater potential to make more money. Are you saying this is false?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Ok...what I'm saying is that when PLaystation and Xbox bring their games to more platforms...there is a greater potential to make more money.

Are you saying this is false?

short answer: Yes.

long answer: it lacks nuance.

Xbox and Play Station are platform holders, they make money thanks to the 30% cut. If releasing games on other platforms makes them loose that 30% then they are loosing money.

When you look at the Xbox's strategy for the last 7-8 years (Day one One PC, Backwards compatibility, GP, play anywhere-ecosystem...) and then you look at the insight from the financial report:

Xbox strategy + Xbox game studios + Zenimax = making lees money.

that strategy was a compete faliure.

but then you could say: Playstation released Helldivers 2 day one on PC. Aren't they making more money?

they are not only losing that 30% cut, but the subscription to play online as well.

I get what you are are saying.
if you're sell one copy on you platform and then you sell another copy on other platform, you are technically making more money.

and as I said many times, each market segment has its own Idiosyncrasies

Helldivers is a very PC centric game. (MP/Community)

so, you cound argue that HD2 is being play on PC by people that never would've bought a PS in the first place.

But that is a fine line PS need to navigate/figure out (the equation between making more many on a game sales on multiple platforms and the potential damage to its brand, console and ecosystem)

the same month PS released HD2 on PC they released FFVII-2 exclusively on PS, the same month people freaked out about trophies on PC Sony released Stellar Blade exclusively on PS.

Shawn Layden said that the "juice is not worth the squeeze"

 

[Jigsaah]

short answer: Yes.

long answer: it lacks nuance.

Xbox and Play Station are platform holders, they make money thanks to the 30% cut. If releasing games on other platforms makes them loose that 30% then they are loosing money.

When you look at the Xbox's strategy for the last 7-8 years (Day one One PC, Backwards compatibility, GP, play anywhere-ecosystem...) and then you look at the insight from the financial report:

Xbox strategy + Xbox game studios + Zenimax = making lees money.

that strategy was a compete faliure.

but then you could say: Playstation released Helldivers 2 day one on PC. Aren't they making more money?

they are not only losing that 30% cut, but the subscription to play online as well.

I get what you are are saying.
if you're sell one copy on you platform and then you sell another copy on other platform, you are technically making more money.

and as I said many times, each market segment has its own Idiosyncrasies

Helldivers is a very PC centric game. (MP/Community)

so, you cound argue that HD2 is being play on PC by people that never would've bought a PS in the first place.

But that is a fine line PS need to navigate/figure out (the equation between making more many on a game sales on multiple platforms and the potential damage to its brand, console and ecosystem)

the same month PS released HD2 on PC they released FFVII-2 exclusively on PS, the same month people freaked out about trophies on PC Sony released Stellar Blade exclusively on PS.

Shawn Layden said that the "juice is not worth the squeeze"

Ok, granted...so then are you saying this early in the practice that Xbox should abandon bringing games over to other platforms in hopes of increasing their income?

It seems as though it's a little soon to say whether that strategy is working or not with just Hi-FI Rush, Sea of Thieves and whatever other games they have coming.

On the Sony side, I'm pretty sure they are very happy with their sales on PC...I'd even argue that PS5 sales are at least adequate. It's a banger of a game (admittedly a subjective take, as a PC player).

As far as the ABK goes...I'm not sure what strategy you're referring to that failed. Especially after looking at a single quarterly earnings call...I don't think anybody with a fair mind thought that ABK would magically turn things around instantly. Microsoft hasn't even done anything with ABK yet. They just put Diablo IV on gamepass like last month...not that I think it would do anything...cuz Diablo IV is trash...but I digress.

It seems when Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 came out and people called it a failure, they were all too ready to place the blame at Xbox's doorstep. However, now that the numbers show the cash ABK is putting in Xbox's pocket, people want to separate them completely.

 

[Radical_3d]

On the Sony side, I'm pretty sure they are very happy with their sales on PC..

The leaked numbers in the Insomniac fiasco were ABISMAL for a AAA. I doubt they are happy and, in my opinion,PC releases were a mistake. Jim Ryan in general was a mistake.

 

[Jigsaah]

The leaked numbers in the Insomniac fiasco were ABISMAL for a AAA. I doubt they are happy and, in my opinion,PC releases were a mistake. Jim Ryan in general was a mistake.

Abyssmal...what do you expect? That it's gonna sell as much as it did as a brand new release? Even if the PC players never played Horizon or God of War before...we certainly have heard of it and the honeymoon period had long past. To me it just lends more of an argument for Playstation to bring games day and date to PC. Strike while the iron is hot.

 

[Denorion]

Abyssmal...what do you expect? That it's gonna sell as much as it did as a brand new release? Even if the PC players never played Horizon or God of War before...we certainly have heard of it and the honeymoon period had long past. To me it just lends more of an argument for Playstation to bring games day and date to PC. Strike while the iron is hot.

If they do that, ps5 sales crater, and they lose the 30% cut of third party content
They will keep releasing GaaS Games day and date, but won't do so with the fancy single player titles

 

[Jigsaah]

If they do that, ps5 sales crater, and they lose the 30% cut of third party content
They will keep releasing GaaS Games day and date, but won't do so with the fancy single player titles

You think everybody's gonna go out and buy a PC? LMAO

Lemme show you what that would look like.

Starforge Systems | Custom Gaming PCs

The best PCs in the Universe. It's a bold claim. But Starforge Systems features bespoke products built, shipped and supported by industry experts. Every gaming pc is benchmarked and quality controlled to ensure your PC lives up to our high standards. Which begs just one question: Are you ready...

starforgesystems.com

The lowest end PC offered for folks who don't wanna build their own is $1000 bucks on this site. There's no way in hell a significant amount of people are gonna buy a PC.

Now what might happen are those PC folks who also own a PLaystation, Might decide to skip the Playstation altogether. However I think the majority of players would still buy a PS6, for example.

If Sony does day and date on PC they still keep the real revenue maker....which is software...not hardware.

 

[rm082e]

I have PC and PlayStation.

Abyssmal...what do you expect? That it's gonna sell as much as it did as a brand new release? Even if the PC players never played Horizon or God of War before...we certainly have heard of it and the honeymoon period had long past. To me it just lends more of an argument for Playstation to bring games day and date to PC. Strike while the iron is hot.

PC is my primary platform. I buy PlayStation consoles because they have great exclusives. If they were to come out and promise all exclusives will get PC ports, I would no longer have a reason to buy PlayStation hardware.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Ok, granted...so then are you saying this early in the practice that Xbox should abandon bringing games over to other platforms in hopes of increasing their income?

early?

this has been an ongoing strategy for the past 8 years.

It seems as though it's a little soon to say whether that strategy is working or not with just Hi-FI Rush, Sea of Thieves and whatever other games they have coming.

... 8 years.

On the Sony side, I'm pretty sure they are very happy with their sales on PC...I'd even argue that PS5 sales are at least adequate. It's a banger of a game (admittedly a subjective take, as a PC player).

and as I put it. they release HD2 and didn't neglected their console based. They released 3 exclusive games after it.

As far as the ABK goes...

ABK is what saved Xbox's ass.

I'm not sure what strategy you're referring to that failed.

Day one on PC
Game Pass
Play anywhere (ecosystem)
2skus
+
studios acquisitions
and zenimax.

all the above where meant to make Xbox stronger. and it FAILED

Especially after looking at a single quarterly earnings call...I don't think anybody with a fair mind thought that ABK would magically turn things around instantly.

is the opposite my friend.
ABK "magically" made Xbox to save face.

and again.... 8 years.

Microsoft hasn't even done anything with ABK yet. They just put Diablo IV on gamepass like last month...not that I think it would do anything...cuz Diablo IV is trash...but I digress.

that's not the point.

It seems when Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 came out and people called it a failure, they were all too ready to place the blame at Xbox's doorstep.

However, now that the numbers show the cash ABK is putting in Xbox's pocket, people want to separate them completely.

MS IS separate them because they need to show investors the effects of the acquiton. Next year is not going to be the case.

 

[Jigsaah]

early?

this has been an ongoing strategy for the past 8 years.



... 8 years.

and as I put it. they release HD2 and didn't neglected their console based. They released 3 exclusive games after it.


ABK is what saved Xbox's ass.

Day one on PC
Game Pass
Play anywhere (ecosystem)
2skus
+
studios acquisitions
and zenimax.

all the above where meant to make Xbox stronger. and it FAILED




is the opposite my friend.
ABK "magically" made Xbox to save face.

and again.... 8 years.



that's not the point.






MS IS separate them because they need to show investors the effects of the acquiton. Next year is not going to be the case.

Ok, first...maybe we're not talking about the same strategy. I'm talking about Xbox bringing games to PS5 specficially. I literally...I dunno where you get 8 years from...It hasn't even been 8 weeks.

2 Sku's devalued Xbox as a whole...that I can agree with. Check my post history...I've already said this. The Series S was this generations achilles' heel.

I don't think Gamepass has failed. It may be stagnant...but treading water isn't drowning.