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[FunkMiller]

I think America is too far gone, in fact I know they are.

When you have children shot to death in school and nothing is done to prevent these types of incidents, I think some could conclude you have a failed state on your hands.

Far from a failed state, but America has decided that mass shootings are a price worth paying for easy access to guns. I doubt anything is going to change that. Certainly not politicians… of any stripe. It’s a tragedy, but perhaps one that is so large and all encompassing as to be unavoidable at this stage. Too many vested interests for it to be properly dealt with, and too many Americans that are happy to ignore what’s happening.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I think America is too far gone, in fact I know they are.

When you have children shot to death in school and nothing is done to prevent these types of incidents, I think some could conclude you have a failed state on your hands.

Again, you keep dunking on America every chance you get. "Failed state?" Do you even know what that means?

Also, if it's "too far gone," what are you even doing here? Shouldn't we just all shrug and say "eh, too far gone, nothing to see here" and go back to other threads?

No, we're here (1) to come together to pay respects; (2) to share with each other what we think the problems are, and what the solutions might be (understanding that no one of us individually can wave a magic wand and solve the problem.)

"Too far gone" is defeatist garbage.

Has anybody else seen those pictures of him yet?

..... ?

 

[WoJ]

I'm sitting next to my five year old daughter reading this thread. I don’t have strong opinions on guns, but FFS it feels like we need to do something regarding security at schools. At least have cops there and limit access points. Something. RIP to the victims and the families.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Has anybody else seen those pictures of him yet?

I've seen a few where one of them looks like he's a young Michelle Rodriguez.

 

[Toons]

Up to 18 now.

No excuse for this.

 

[Zok310]

RIP to the dead. Fucking usa deserves all the turmoil it can endure. This country and everyone in it is doomed and no way out. Can't hop on a ship and go colonize some other land.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

They're saying the death toll might be 21 people with 18 children dead.

Horrible.

 

[BadBurger]

Charlton Heston told us what we need to do in that case.

I find it gross as a motherfucker that your first reaction to children being murdered is to retreat to some fucked up political stance that implies further violence.

 

[Jennings]

RIP to the dead. Fucking usa deserves all the turmoil it can endure. This country and everyone in it is doomed and no way out. Can't hop on a ship and go colonize some other land.

Please stop telling the families of these children that they deserved this.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Some reports say he also shot his grandmother first. Amazingly, she's still alive (at this point).

May 24, 2022: Mass shooting at Texas elementary school

At least 19 children and two adults were killed in a shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

Uvalde shooting suspect believed to have shot grandmother first before going to the school, sources tell CNN​

From CNN's Evan Perez, Priscilla Alvarez and Shimon Prokupecz

The Texas school shooting suspect is believed to have shot his grandmother before going to the school, three law enforcement sources tell CNN.
State Sen. Roland Gutierrez told CNN the grandmother was airlifted to San Antonio and “is still holding on,” according to information he was given by the Texas Rangers.
“This young man shot his grandmother and fled that scene from that incident,” Gutierrez told CNN’s Erin Burnett.
Earlier, the Texas governor said, “it is being reported that the subject shot his grandmother right before he went to the school.”

 

[nush]

RIP to the dead. Fucking usa deserves all the turmoil it can endure. This country and everyone in it is doomed and no way out. Can't hop on a ship and go colonize some other land.

You can go if you want.

The easiest countries to immigrate to as an expat

Whether you want to find work in your dream country or run a location-independent business, we look at the easiest countries to immigrate to.

www.expatica.com

 

[haxan7]

"Traditional morality"?

You'll have to explain that one. Because the rest of the world seems to be doing just fine by comparison.

America is a special nation, always has been. It’s based on the idea that the Government doesn’t grant rights; God does, it’s only the Government’s job to protect them. Included in those rights is the right to self defense, which includes gun ownership. You can try to subvert the system all you want, but those are the facts. You can either work within that framework to bring about change, or you can keep wasting your breath on anti-gun rhetoric which will remain fruitless.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

We need to return to a culture of traditional morality if we want this kind of random violence to end. We live in a culture of death.

I agree with this. There has certainly been a deterioration of:

(1) Family
(2) Friends
(3) Community
(4) Deep, meaningful, long-lasting monogamous romantic relationships
(5) Respect for authority (police, teachers, parents, etc)

Myself a religiously agnostic/borderline atheist dude, I'm gonna add a controversial 6th item to that list that I'm probably gonna get some flak for: I think the loss of religion has culturally hurt this country. I really do. Love it or hate it, religion does provide a sense of community and unity at a local level.

Quite often perpetrators of crimes like this are seriously lacking in one (usually more than one) of the 6 items above.

Saying it loud for the kids in the back: this is not to minimize the importance of gun control. We can "walk and chew gum at the same time" (e.g., talk about multiple things at once), can't we!?

 

[prinz_valium]

This is bad.
Whenever there is a killing spree, chances are high you get another

 

[BigBooper]

The 2nd amendment is not up for debate. Most Americans do not want to surrender our guns, period.

We need more information about the shooter. As always, tons of kneejerk uninformed answers to ancient questions.

 

[Batiman]

You got leaders over here here saying we don’t need more gun control. We just need more God.

You can’t make this shit up. These people are lunatics

 

[Nobody_Important]

America is a special nation, always has been. It’s based on the idea that the Government doesn’t grant rights; God does, it’s only the Government’s job to protect them. Included in those rights is the right to self defense, which includes gun ownership. You can try to subvert the system all you want, but those are the facts. You can either work within that framework to bring about change, or you can keep wasting your breath on anti-gun rhetoric which will remain fruitless.

None of that answered my question.


What do you mean by "traditional morality"?

 

[Toons]

America is a special nation, always has been. It’s based on the idea that the Government doesn’t grant rights; God does, it’s only the Government’s job to protect them. Included in those rights is the right to self defense, which includes gun ownership. You can try to subvert the system all you want, but those are the facts. You can either work within that framework to bring about change, or you can keep wasting your breath on anti-gun rhetoric which will remain fruitless.

Matthew 26:52.

God doesn't want you to use guns and weapons to solve your problems. So that's well within the framework of change.

 

[haxan7]

None of that answered my question.


What do you mean by "traditional morality"?

I’m not going to explain what traditional morality is bro.

 

[nush]

This is bad.
Whenever there is a killing spree, chances are high you get another

This IS the other one.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I’m not going to explain what traditional morality is bro.

Yeah I didn't think you would.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Fucking usa deserves all the turmoil it can endure. This country and everyone in it is doomed and no way out. Can't hop on a ship and go colonize some other land.

Garbage post. 0/10, would not read again.

 

[prinz_valium]

This IS the other one.

Yeah. That was my point.

 

[StateofMajora]

I think most sensible people in this thread (myself included) want some sort of reformed gun control. I don't think anybody is against that. But again (also for the millionth time), "GUNS GO AWAY" is a simplistic knee-jerk response. Gun rights have been around for 250+ years; what has happened to America recently that shootings of all sorts are way up? Is it a cultural problem? Is it a mental health problem? Is it a problem with people losing traditional values and feeling lost in life? (Answer: It's all of the above, and more).

I am not against more mental health measures. That does not include gun restrictions.

But should you trust a government that is actively pursuing destroying said traditional values to fix this?

It's government schools making kids apathetic, ignorant and angry. And parents aren't involved enough. That's where these people are coming from.

Government tyranny is obviously not a bygone era. Current administration admires the Chinese model.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

RIP to the dead. Fucking usa deserves all the turmoil it can endure. This country and everyone in it is doomed and no way out. Can't hop on a ship and go colonize some other land.

You can't be serious. A bunch of people were just senselessly killed.

 

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

I'm sitting next to my five year old daughter reading this thread. I don’t have strong opinions on guns, but FFS it feels like we need to do something regarding security at schools. At least have cops there and limit access points. Something. RIP to the victims and the families.

Higher security is really the only viable option at this point unfortunately. No one is ever going to convince the vast numbers of gun "enthusiasts" in the U.S. that they should ever have any restrictions at all. The constitution, being a flawed document, is impossible to amend in a modern 50/50 divided country. The majority of gun supporters would never agree to a mental health barrier to purchasing, as a shit ton of Q believing patriots would immediately be deemed mentally unstable by educated psychiatrists. Mass shootings like these actually drive more gun rights voters to the polls than gun regulators, and increase donations to the NRA. So calls to ban types of guns, and restrict access to guns will be met with a wave of fury in the opposite direction.

The only solutions that are actually viable are solutions that gun rights people will agree to. Better security mostly. Armed guards. Concealed carry in places where that is acceptable. Mass shooters don't generally walk into a place with a bunch of potentially armed civilians to carry out their plans. More guns to stop gun violence is a tough pill to swallow for most, but for those of us that have seen this debate play out over and over for the past 40 years, it is quite clear the usual arguments lead nowhere.

I own guns, and I would give them up in a second if it would protect children. But I don't have any delusions about Ramboing out against a tyrannical gubment.

 

[BigBooper]

None of that answered my question.


What do you mean by "traditional morality"?

Probably the morality that most Americans hold and is passed onto their children by tradition.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Probably the morality that most Americans hold and is passed onto their children by tradition.

Which is....?

 

[Toons]

Higher security is really the only viable option at this point unfortunately. No one is ever going to convince the vast numbers of gun "enthusiasts" in the U.S. that they should ever have any restrictions at all. The constitution, being a flawed document, is impossible to amend in a modern 50/50 divided country. The majority of gun supporters would never agree to a mental health barrier to purchasing, as a shit ton of Q believing patriots would immediately be deemed mentally unstable by educated psychiatrists. Mass shootings like these actually drive more gun rights voters to the polls than gun regulators, and increase donations to the NRA. So calls to ban types of guns, and restrict access to guns will be met with a wave of fury in the opposite direction.

The only solutions that are actually viable are solutions that gun rights people will agree to. Better security mostly. Armed guards. Concealed carry in places where that is acceptable. Mass shooters don't generally walk into a place with a bunch of potentially armed civilians to carry out their plans. More guns to stop gun violence is a tough pill to swallow for most, but for those of us that have seen this debate play out over and over for the past 40 years, it is quite clear the usual arguments lead nowhere.

I own guns, and I would give them up in a second if it would protect children. But I don't have any delusions about Ramboing out against a tyrannical gubment.

The neat thing about laws is you don't have to "agree" with them. You just have to follow them. Or else.

Thats what should be happening.

 

[BigBooper]

Far from a failed state, but America has decided that mass shootings are a price worth paying for easy access to guns. I doubt anything is going to change that. Certainly not politicians… of any stripe. It’s a tragedy, but perhaps one that is so large and all encompassing as to be unavoidable at this stage. Too many vested interests for it to be properly dealt with, and too many Americans that are happy to ignore what’s happening.

Much like traffic accidents, there are negative aspects to freedom. There are also negative aspects to removing citizens gun ownership, see Australian imprisonment of covid protestors.

 

[BigBooper]

Which is....?

Obvious. Almost as obvious as your baiting questions.

 

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

The neat thing about laws is you don't have to "agree" with them. You just have to follow them. Or else.

Thats what should be happening.

Well, you also have to pass them. What's the track record on that when it comes to gun restrictions?

 

[Airbus Jr]

Nothing gona change

More people gona die

As long as US gun policy hasnt changed

 

[Toons]

Well, you also have to pass them. What's the track record on that when it comes to gun restrictions?

Oh I'm in full m agreement there. Lot if our reps are bought and paid for by a corporate run clique that values guns over American children. That one tends to get a pass though for some reason.

 

[Kilau]

I have the fear everyday some nutjob will shoot up the school my wife works at and now our son attends. Very thankful they have an SRO on campus everyday.

So gut wrenching this news, pure evil.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It’s more than mental illness to massacre a load of kids, especially with the frequency that it happens in America. This is a generation of people with zero sense of purpose or belonging to anything, along with a complete lack of morality. Mental illness alone doesn’t even begin to explain these now frequent ‘events’. Its a complete breakdown of society.

 

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

Much like traffic accidents, there are negative aspects to freedom. There are also negative aspects to removing citizens gun ownership, see Australian imprisonment of covid protestors.

Personally, I'd be down with jailing a few covid protesters if it meant 20 little kids were still alive today.

 

[Toons]

Obvious. Almost as obvious as your baiting questions.

Whats "obvious" is that isnt the issue because the rest of the world doesn't have this problem.

 

[BigBooper]

Personally, I'd be down with jailing a few covid protesters if it meant 20 little kids were still alive today.

Genius level strawman.

Whats "obvious" is that isnt the issue because the rest of the world doesn't have this problem.

Most of the rest of the world doesn't value freedom.

 

[Toons]

Genius level strawman.

Most of the rest of the world doesn't value freedom.

Only in America can 18 children being massacred by a lone teenage gunman with no supervision or regulation be called "freedom"

Congratulations on being a part of rhe problem

 

[kfpkiller]

Genius level strawman.

Most of the rest of the world doesn't value freedom.

If by freedom you mean guns then yes I can assure you that the rest of the world doesn’t care about it.

 

[BigBooper]

Only in America can 18 children being massacred by a lone teenage gunman with no supervision or regulation be called "freedom"

Congratulations on being a part of rhe problem

Congratulations on being part of the final "solution," I guess.

 

[Batiman]

I am not against more mental health measures. That does not include gun restrictions.

But should you trust a government that is actively pursuing destroying said traditional values to fix this?

It's government schools making kids apathetic, ignorant and angry. And parents aren't involved enough. That's where these people are coming from.

Government tyranny is obviously not a bygone era. Current administration admires the Chinese model.

What traditional values is your government destroying? Serious question

 

[Airbus Jr]

It’s more than mental illness to massacre a load of kids, especially with the frequency that it happens in America. This is a generation of people with zero sense of purpose or belonging to anything, along with a complete lack of morality. Mental illness alone doesn’t even begin to explain these now frequent ‘events’. Its a complete breakdown of society.

Mental ilness isnt something that exclusives on US

Other countries have that aswell

 

[mortal]

As I said above, your view on guns is the "more guns the better defence view"

I never made the argument that the "more guns the better the defense", as you put it. That's just dishonest.
The problem here is that you're conflating people that are gun enthusiasts or "gun nuts" with the average owner of a firearm, that may own 1 of 2 firearms for self-defense or home defense.
Every person that owns a firearm doesn't automatically subscribe to the notion "more guns the better the defense". Having more has nothing to do with it.
It's a question of law-abiding Americans being restricted from exercising the constitutional right to own or carry a firearm at all, by way of more and more restrictive gun laws as reactive measures.

The problem with that view is most of the mass killings involve people in innocent circumstances and sometimes kids who wouldnt have a gun anyway. It's not like the shooter today was trying to kick down someone's front door and the victim had time to grab their gun a shoot them back.

Of course, the children wouldn't have a gun, that's a silly point. Seeing as how this just happened and details are still coming in,
I cannot speak to what transpired, or what did or did not happen.
Despite all of that, you would still want a person with a gun ( a police officer) to come and stop an active shooter.

Often times, the shooter commits suicide or gets gunned down by cops 10 minutes later. So even if a store manager or school principal pulled out their gun to defend everyone, the shooting already started.

Doesn't matter if the shooting has already commenced, it's about stopping an ongoing threat and preventing more violence or loss of life.
That same logic can be applied to police officers, who are also armed.
Just because an active shooter is still running around shooting people doesn't mean the police wouldn't have any more incentive to stop the shooter by using lethal force regardless of how many people have already been shot.

Let's not pretend its a video game where if someone pulls out a gun out of the blue and starts shooting, people have regen health, can take a few slugs and shoot back like Dirty Harry.

Who's pretending this is a video game? I don't see the purpose of taking a very dire situation and trivializing it with a video game analogy, simply because we happen to be on a video game discussion forum.
I'm certainly not making light of this, and I assume you aren't either, so I don't see the need for that.

Most mass shootings arent even crime scenes like bank robberies or an OK Corral shootout or anything like that. So it's not like the usage of the gun is defence. It's on the offence for weirdos who want to kill 20 people at a time before anyone can even react.

That's just an absurd claim. So anyone that has ever used a firearm to defend themselves or others against attackers are all just "weirdos that want to kill 20 people at a time" for simply owning and wielding a firearm?
I suppose it doesn't matter the intentions of the people wielding firearms, nor the context of the situation and whether or not they were justified in their use of a firearm? Yea, I would strongly disagree with that claim.

This brings me back to my point of stressing the mental state of this shooter and their motivations.
It's odd how in the wake of these shootings, the conversation tends to immediately veer into policies and more gun control, and the underlying factors that lead up to the incident are often an afterthought.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Obvious. Almost as obvious as your baiting questions.

No it's not "obvious". America is a melting pot of different cultures, religions, and backgrounds.


There is no unanimous "traditional morality" that they all share. If you are christian you have one set. If you are Hindu you have another. Same goes for rich, poor, middle class, atheist, immigrant, north, south, gay, straight, etc etc.


Trying to pretend that a problem like this can be remedied by "traditional morality" is ridiculous because there is no such thing.

 

[Toons]

Congratulations on being part of the final "solution," I guess.

Lol. Godwins law never fails.

Your "traditional morality" is one of the most restrictive on the planet too. "Freedom" my ass.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Genius level strawman.

Most of the rest of the world doesn't value freedom.

You can't be fucking serious

 

[BigBooper]

Lol. Godwins law never fails.

Your "traditional morality" is one of the most restrictive on the planet too. "Freedom" my ass.

Freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't directly affect other people is a pretty good standard, imo. It's true the US government and history isn't perfect on that.

 

[Toons]

Freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't directly affect other people is a pretty good standard, imo. It's true the US government and history isn't perfect on that.

We can agree on that.