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[winjer]

It's not a desktop with a 3060. It's a gaming laptop.

Pretty big difference there. They have similar performance but it depends on the power profile of his notebook. Last I checked, it was 115W so assuming his laptop isn't gimped by power, he should be fine and get relatively close to a desktop performance.

Correct, but its a 11 TLFOP gpu. The desktop one is 12.7. Not a huge difference.
And with dlss performance, it will have better performance and will look better, at 4k, than most PS5 games.
The teal issue is the 6 GB of vram.

 

[Crayon]

Not really, I have always traded in my previous console at Gamestop. Always had a good deal towards buying the new one.

I did PS2->PS3->PS4->PS4 Pro->PS5

Will do the same for PS5 Pro

You can do the same with gpus. They hold their values surprisingly well. Disappointingly well if you're shopping lol.

 

[Gaiff]

This isnt the case for most countries.

PC Gaming will still be a niche thing.

Lol, PC gaming hasn't been niche since the 90s.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Intel is no longer the overwhelming force in PC, AMD has gained massive marketshare and now counts for a third of all processors sold, and is still gaining.

You can indeed get high clock speeds with sub $100 dollar boards. A H610 for Intel can easily do over 4Ghz sustained with a 12400f/13400f, or even well over 5Ghz with something more powerful. For AMD A620 does the job as well. These motherboards can be found for around $80.

Your prices are also off, you can build the following PC for $640:

12400f 6 core, 4.1Ghz
H610 motherboard
16GB DDR5 4800
8GB 6650XT
1TB Nvme
700w PSU
Corsair Case

That's the equivalent of $490 back in 2013 and would easily play any modern title at 1080p. A $1100 PC like you mentioned would be way more powerful. Something like this:

AMD 7600/7700 (depending on deal).
B760 motherboard
32GB DDR5 6000
16GB 6800XT (or GeForce 4070 for $50 more)
1TB nvme
700w PSU
Corsair Case

Nobody would put a 6600XT in a $1000 build.

The chipset doesn't support memory or CPU overclocking - which forcibly maintaining the boost clock is a form of overclocking- so that doesn't work, and I've first hand experience with that chipset, and the best you can do is offer up more power limit for short bursts to keep the clock slightly longer for bursts, but you can not run the 3Dmark free demo benchmark on steam and get it to hold the clock anywhere near the boost clock. And the clock recedes very fast at the start of the benchmark.

You need a Z-series (or B760 chipset from this year) to achieve that, which is a mismatch by price to spend as much on a mobo as the GPU in a budget system. You also used dollars, whereas even that unsuited system in pounds will be a fair bit more.

 

[Zathalus]

The chipset doesn't support memory or CPU overclocking - which forciably maintaining the boost clock is a form of overclocking- so that doesn't work, and I've first hand experience with that chipset, and the best you can do is offer up more power limit for short bursts to keep the clock slightly longer for bursts, but you can not run the 3Dmark free demo benchmark on steam and get it to hold the clock anywhere near the boost clock. And the clock recedes very fast at the start of the benchmark.

You need a Z-series (or B760 chipset from this year) to achieve that, which is a mismatch by price to spend as much on a mobo as the GPU in a budget system. You also used dollars, whereas even that unsuited system in pounds will be a fair bit more.

Maintaining the memory and CPU clock is XMP and Turbo Boost respectively, both are supported by the 12400f and the H610. A 12400f on a H610 will have zero problems holding 4Ghz and 4800 on the DDR5 RAM.

You can quite clearly see that here:

H610 Motherboard Roundup: i9-12900K Meets Sub-$120 Micro ATX

H610 boards are good for mid-range processors, but struggle with the i9-12900K

www.tomshardware.com

The issue with H610 is that the VRM can't cope with something like a 12900k but a 12400 and 12600 would have zero issues reaching max boost speeds

 

[PaintTinJr]

Maintaining the memory and CPU clock is XMP and Turbo Boost respectively, both are supported by the 12400f and the H610. A 12400f on a H610 will have zero problems holding 4Ghz and 4800 on the DDR5 RAM.

You can quite clearly see that here:

H610 Motherboard Roundup: i9-12900K Meets Sub-$120 Micro ATX

H610 boards are good for mid-range processors, but struggle with the i9-12900K

www.tomshardware.com

The issue with H610 is that the VRM can't cope with something like a 12900k but a 12400 and 12600 would have zero issues reaching max boost speeds

I haven't read your link because I have first hand experience of that not being the case in real gaming workloads. The clock is fine in Single Threaded games, and holds half way between with two cores, but in a normal modern AAA game that uses 6 cores and AVX2 the 100MHz above the base clock is all you are going to get.

The 3Dmark readout even shows you a graph of how the clock holds up after the 20min benchmark.

The only thread I've ever done on this website was about lowering the AVX2 clock on such systems to provide more power and thermal headroom- to trick the intel speed step system - when the chip is under heavy load, to maintain a higher clock for non-AVX2 work in games, because AVX2 disproportionately uses power and heat at a higher clock when under heavy load.

 

[Zathalus]

I haven't read your link because I have first hand experience of that not being the case in real gaming workloads. The clock is fine in Single Threaded games, and holds half way between with two cores, but in a normal modern AAA game that uses 6 cores and AVX2 the 100MHz above the base clock is all you are going to get.

The 3Dmark readout even shows you a graph of how the clock holds up after the 20min benchmark.

The only thread I've ever done on this website was about lowering the AVX2 clock on such systems to provide more power and thermal headroom- to trick the intel speed step system - when the chip is under heavy load, to maintain a higher clock for non-AVX2 work in games, because AVX2 disproportionately uses power and heat at a higher clock when under heavy load.

Not sure what to tell you, everywhere you check on the internet you would see nobody raising these issues. No review of either the 12400f nor the H610 have raised any problem either. On some H610 boards you can even overclock and run some CPUs over 5Ghz. AVX2 should not be a issue either, I've seen reviews of the 12400f being hit with AVX2 workloads and sustaining 4Ghz across all cores.

 

[Bojji]

Correct, but its a 11 TLFOP gpu. The desktop one is 12.7. Not a huge difference.
And with dlss performance, it will have better performance and will look better, at 4k, than most PS5 games.
The teal issue is the 6 GB of vram.

Ampere teraflops are bullshit. 3060 desktop is close in power to 2070, while PS5 GPU is around 2070 super/2080 in power (raster).

 

[Filben]

Even if it's not on par with the PS5... isn't it still great value for the price asked? I'm not familiar with AMD cards but this seems like a good card to build a solid entry level PC that runs everything with good graphics and playable frame rates.

 

[Laieon]

I still have a 1060 so I would have jumped on this in a heartbeat, but it looks like my local Microcenter isn't selling it. Oh well, all I really play on PC anymore is WoW and Age of Empires IV, so nothing all that demanding anyway.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Not sure what to tell you, everywhere you check on the internet you would see nobody raising these issues. No review of either the 12400f nor the H610 have raised any problem either. On some H610 boards you can even overclock and run some CPUs over 5Ghz. AVX2 should not be a issue either, I've seen reviews of the 12400f being hit with AVX2 workloads and sustaining 4Ghz across all cores.

Why would anyone take issue - given they understand how speed step works - with a boost clock and a base clock on a chip that works within specification and positions it correctly with in the line up - a line up where all other chips also scale frequency down to base clock too under heavy load, unless overclocked, which HP, Dell, lenovo OEM systems aren't.

This sounds like a you issue, where you've wrongly believed that the turbo clock is what you actually get in prolonged heavy loads - even on OEM prebuilds.

 

[Zathalus]

Why would anyone take issue - given they understand how speed step works - with a boost clock and a base clock on a chip that works within specification and positions it correctly with in the line up - a line up where all other chips also scale frequency down to base clock too under heavy load, unless overclocked, which HP, Dell, lenovo OEM systems aren't.

This sounds like a you issue, where you've wrongly believed that the turbo clock is what you actually get in prolonged heavy loads - even on OEM prebuilds.

Er no, Intel Turbo Boost clearly has different boost frequency it hits for different amount of cores that get sustained work loads applied to them.

That's for a 13400f, but a 12400f should stay over 4Ghz with gaming workloads. If you hammer it for 10 minutes with something like Cinebench the very worse you will see a 12400f drop is 3.9Ghz across all cores.

Edit:



4Ggz all cores Cinebench multi core run.

Edit 2: You do realize that neither XMP nor Turbo Boost is overclocking right? Both are Intel technologies that the H610 support. With XMP all you need to change is a bios settings and the Turbo Boost is fully automatic. Intel doesn't consider either technology overclocking.

 

[Crayon]

Even if it's not on par with the PS5... isn't it still great value for the price asked? I'm not familiar with AMD cards but this seems like a good card to build a solid entry level PC that runs everything with good graphics and playable frame rates.

A lot of it depends on the requirments of the heaviest games over the next 2 years but for games out now, it's quite a good deal. If there are very few games that are super demanding and you can rock it for at least 2 years without a headache then it turns out to be a great buy.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Er no, Intel Turbo Boost clearly has different boost frequency it hits for different amount of cores that get sustained work loads applied to them.

That's for a 13400f, but a 12400f should stay over 4Ghz with gaming workloads. If you hammer it for 10 minutes with something like Cinebench the very worse you will see a 12400f drop is 3.9Ghz across all cores.

The testing method is slightly inconsistent with gaming, and it was Cores, not threads. Without seeing the taskmanager with logical processor view, how can you know if they occupy another core via a hardware thread? And is AVX also being used simultaneously like it is in games?

Just run the timespy demo from 3dmark on one of them and tell me if the chip can prolong the turbo clock over the 20mins on a H610 chipset using the intel stock cooler when the demo gives a log at the end.

When you tie/fix the base clock to the turbo clock so that it doesn't scale, speed step is disabled, and that is overclocking base chip frequency, because it exceeds the thermals and power restrictions of the chip to achieve beyond what the chip was sold to do under warranty.

 

[Dream-Knife]

It means nothing really as PS5 will still perform better in your average multiplat game thanks to better console optimization

This isn't really a thing anymore.

Consoles have lifespans that are over 6 years meanwhile new improved PC parts are released every year (with the expection of GPU generations)

Just because new stuff comes out doesn't mean you have to upgrade it.

Is your car a 2023 model?

Ampere teraflops are bullshit. 3060 desktop is close in power to 2070, while PS5 GPU is around 2070 super/2080 in power (raster).

A 3060 can play games better than either console.

AMDs new tflop numbers are even worse. Not sure how they're counting them, but being able to switch between int or fp calculations is pretty neat.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Zathalus

FYI

The second comment on the youtube list for that video asks about settings for a h610 Pro, which the youtuber says they haven't used a h series and that this is a b-series mobo. Checking the top right in the video MSI MS-7D42 is listed which is this motherboard that supports overclocking as the forrunner to the B760

MSI Demonstrates 5.1 GHz Intel Alder Lake Non-K CPU Overclocking on MAG B660M Mortar Motherboard, Features New 'OC Engine' & PCIe Gen 5 Support

MSI has demonstrated its Non-K Intel Alder Lake CPU overclocking capabilities on the B660 series motherboards with the new 'OC Engine'.

wccftech.com