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Digital Foundry: Alan Wake 2 PS5 Pro Tech Review - Pro vs PS5 - PSSR vs DLSS - Pro RT vs PC
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Lysandros
Member
As expected usual suspects are at near light speed to jump to definitive conclusions about overall capabilities of PS5 PRO based on this single, absolutely worse enhancement yet. Try to be a bit more subtle about your disingenuousness, we know you aren't interested in the objective truth/results in the slightest.
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Pelao
Member
Remedy's crappy work aside, is that amount of shimmering common in games with PSSR?
I've watched a bunch of gameplay videos and it's quite noticeable in some games.
I actually dropped Horizon Forbidden West on launch due to how bad the shimmering was in performance mode, so for me that would be a deal breaker.
I've watched a bunch of gameplay videos and it's quite noticeable in some games.
I actually dropped Horizon Forbidden West on launch due to how bad the shimmering was in performance mode, so for me that would be a deal breaker.
That is why it still depends on the developer skills. I expect first and 2nd party game will really take full advantage of the ps5 pro. I still believe the ps5 pro can run games in 4k/ 60fps with RT in its life cycle within 4 years before ps6.
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Same video shows DLSS with worse aliasing. Its not cut and dry, they are different methods
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Isn't it a bit misleading to say it costs 35% to reconstruct from 1080p>4K? The percentage changes depending on the frame time target.
Here, a 4090 gets 150fps at native 1080p and 120fps at 4K DLSS Performance.
That's 1.6ms of additional GPU time to upscale. Of course, the fps being 150 makes 1.6ms have a huge fps impact since it's 25% of the 6.667ms budget.
With a 60fps target, that's about 10%.
With a 30fps target, this drops to 5%.
For the 7900 XTX, it goes from 128fps to 100fps or 7.81ms>10ms. 2.19ms of additional rendering time. 21.9%.
That's 13% with a 60fps target and 6.6% with a 30fps target.
Other cards are definitely slower, but given the fact that we're talking about a 60fps target, that would mean a whopping 5.8333ms to upscale from 1080p>4K, which I don't think is possible.
Thebonehead
Gold Member
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Isn't it a bit misleading to say it costs 35% to reconstruct from 1080p>4K? The percentage changes depending on the frame time target.
Here, a 4090 gets 150fps at native 1080p and 120fps at 4K DLSS Performance.
That's 1.6ms of additional GPU time to upscale. Of course, the fps being 150 makes 1.6ms have a huge fps impact since it's 25% of the 6.667ms budget.
With a 60fps target, that's about 10%.
With a 30fps target, this drops to 5%.
For the 7900 XTX, it goes from 128fps to 100fps or 7.81ms>10ms. 2.19ms of additional rendering time. 21.9%.
That's 13% with a 60fps target and 6.6% with a 30fps target.
Other cards are definitely slower, but given the fact that we're talking about a 60fps target, that would mean a whopping 5.8333ms to upscale from 1080p>4K, which I don't think is possible.
STOP! You're making too much sense.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
No, I can see shit captain...
Remedy are overrated hacks. They always have been. Control looks like crap as well. Alan Wake is not technically good. They throw the kitchen sink at the engine and it runs like garbage without any fine tuning or optimization, and you're left with something like Alan Wake 2.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Now you're just being silly.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
It's my opinion, I think many would agree. Remedy just throw a lot of visual effects at their engine and the end result is something that really does not look pleasing or optimized, and there are many basic or lacking details in areas as a result of that.
I have never been impressed with their game's visuals.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
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Mister Wolf
Member
One looks a whole generation better tech wise.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I'm not seeing it. Asset quality looks better in TLOU remake due to the clarity. Foliage, textures, art design, all put AW to shame. The overall quality of the image presentation is much more appealing as a result.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The only thing I'll agree with you is that TLoU has better IQ, the rest nah.
bender
What time is it?
We live in a world where Max Payne 2 exists so I think that makes you incorrect.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Are you gay or something??
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I can't believe you just insulted remedy like this.
Cmon man....no way.
You're a hack.
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Inviusx
Member
I just have zero interest in studios that want to use this additional horse power to just throw more effects at a 30fps mode. I am so completely done with 30fps as a concept, regardless of how shiny it might look. Exact same as Blizzard and their D4 enhancements, it's literally just a bump in fidelity for the existing 30fps mode which is garbage to play on.
Once again this just stands to elevate those studios who have been consumer focused with their PS5 Pro enhancements, Square Enix, Insomniac, Naughty Dog, Ivory Tower.
At first I thought that The Crew: Motorfest was not ideal, by only offering 1 mode on Pro but now I'm leaning towards that being the most consumer friendly option. So kudos to them.
Remedy can fuck off with this poor effort. It does not represent the capabilities of this console at all.
Once again this just stands to elevate those studios who have been consumer focused with their PS5 Pro enhancements, Square Enix, Insomniac, Naughty Dog, Ivory Tower.
At first I thought that The Crew: Motorfest was not ideal, by only offering 1 mode on Pro but now I'm leaning towards that being the most consumer friendly option. So kudos to them.
Remedy can fuck off with this poor effort. It does not represent the capabilities of this console at all.
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midasmulligan
Member
Just popped this after shelving it for a year, looks very weak on Pro. The reality is, baseline resolution is too damn low. Getting shelved once again.
SKYF@ll
Member
Three years ago, Bloober Studio did the opposite of what Remedy did.
They lowered the graphics settings and increased the resolution of the PS5 version of The Medium, which was released later than the XSX.
The results are shown in the images below.
PS5 (1620-1720p, low shadow, w/o RTAO) vs. XSX (720p-1440p, high shadow, RTAO)
At low resolutions, the results are awful no matter what Ultra setting you use, so I hope the developers improve this.
They lowered the graphics settings and increased the resolution of the PS5 version of The Medium, which was released later than the XSX.
The results are shown in the images below.
PS5 (1620-1720p, low shadow, w/o RTAO) vs. XSX (720p-1440p, high shadow, RTAO)
At low resolutions, the results are awful no matter what Ultra setting you use, so I hope the developers improve this.
Based on his comments, I would be surprised if he had even played Remedy's previous output.
guys are obsessed with low res graphics!
bender
What time is it?
I do think it is fair to say that Remedy's ambition usually exceed the capabilities of their target platform when it comes to consoles which is a trend that started with the original Alan Wake.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I have. Control was boring and ugly. I also played QB, and same there
I do not understand why this developer is put on a pedestal
Have you played Max Payne, Max Payne 2 or the original Alan Wake?
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
No. Those are much older games so not sure why that’s relevant.
Studios are only as good as their recent output.
kevboard
Member
Alan Wake was specifically designed for the Xbox 360, it looked and ran better than most games of that generation.
so I don't see it.
but starting with Control they definitely went back to a PC first approach.
the only console versions of questionable quality of their games really are Control, Alan Wake 2, and the PS2 ports of the Max Payne games. the last 2 weren't made by them tho, and the team behind the Xbox ports did a great job comparatively.
Max Payne Xbox, Max Payne 2 Xbox, Alan Wake, AW American Nightmare and Quantum Break all were pretty impressive at the time of release.
You said Remedy have always been overrated hacks. Not that they currently are.
kevboard
Member
Control is amazing and was the second most recent game of theirs.
also their design principles haven't changed much since Max Payne 1. they still heavily focus on gunplay, often with special powers, and have heavy use or live action elements in them. Alan Wake 2 was a big outlier design wise.
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bender
What time is it?
Alan Wake was retooled from it's original design to work on the 360 and even then ran at a fairly low resolution.
Alan Wake 1 was a shameless and unimaginative ‘we really like twin peaks and Stephen king. A lot’ with mediocre gameplay. Control gets a bit of a pass because the core gameplay was okay enough to carry the game and it was a budget title, but holy hell they absolutely did not live up to the potential nor promise of the premise of mining SCP fiction, both in scale, weirdness, or inventiveness. Granted there was enough there to say ‘maybe with a sequel’, but Remedy isn’t exactly hitting home runs here.
*has played every mainline Remedy game except Quantum Break*.
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kevboard
Member
sure, but that often happens. I think that shows the exact opposite tho, if they specifically redesigning a bit part of the game to adjust the game to work on the target platform.
the game also looked really clean even tho it had a low resolution. the lighting was great and specifically designed for the 360, and the antialiasing was very good
Not by many given how their games don’t sell. They’re kind of like a more competent Quantic Dreams with lower sales.
The problem with Alan Wake 2 the gameplay regressed from even Alan Wake 1, and that gameplay got painful by the end.
bender
What time is it?
The low resolution along with other tricks were utilized to try to keep the framerate locked at 30 but it couldn't manage and still had screen tearing Alan Wake was supposed to be an open world sandbox, it wasn't intended to be on consoles but Remedy needed money, as they often do, so they retooled the game to fit on the 360. I'm wouldn't consider paring down to be the same thing as specifically designed for the 360.
The source material is not original, but I think the decision to structure the game like a (pulp) novel is. The combat is also based around overwhelming you in each encounter and then resetting, so I don't think it really compares to other third person action games. Personally I played it before Alan Wake 2 and still think it holds up. I actually prefer the combat to its sequel, which nerfs the dodge and makes you a sitting duck at close range.
But obviously it's a question of taste. My point was that if you accuse a developer of (always) being hacks, you should at least have experienced the main games they are known for.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Not like Alan Wake (original) was that highly rated, many were disappointed in the lack of gameplay
They’ve mostly been a pretty mid dev in aggregate
bender
What time is it?
Max Payne 2 is an all time great game and has aged remarkably well. Max Payne was great too, but hasn't aged as gracefully. Everything they've done afterwards is of varying quality and in my opinion, nowhere near the quality of MP2 and their catalogue is of a size now that it feels like Max Payne duology is the outlier and not Quantum Break. Most people like Alan Wake and Control much more than I do though and I've only tried the trial of AW2 which I didn't even get to the end of before deleting the game.
Ironman_Bad
Member
Max Payne is legendary everything else they have done has been relatively forgettable and boring...I haven't played AW2 yet hopefully they fix it cause it's their best looking game since Max Payne 3
It has a 90% rating on Steam, so I think it resonated far more with gamers than critics.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Steam rating is about the worst evidence you could ever use for consensus.
Remedy is just a mid developer these days. Very average to poor gameplay, visuals that stretch engines so thin that the overall product looks and runs in a shoddy fashion
I get that they are a small studio with limited funds, but they’d be much better served having more modest attempts at chasing visuals and focusing more on everything else
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Remedy has turned into a PC focused developer. Alan Wake and Quantum Break were at least playable on the xbox consoles. Control was straight up unplayable on base consoles. 15-20 fps isnt good. On PC, it was marvelous. But even there i had to play at 864p on a my new fancy $700 RTX 2080 just to be able to run RT effects at 60 fps.
Alan Wake 2 on consoles is simply inexcusable. The shimmering should not have been allowed to get to the final release. Let alone in the Pro release. Especially since its tied to motion blue which can easily be turned off. They clearly dont care about the console experience. This game could've had a near TLOU quality IQ if they had spent more than two days optimizing the Pro build.
You cant tell me that they played through this game. They wouldve seen the RT noise immediately on wooden walls and other reflective objects in the morgue. Again, inexcusable that it was shipped in this state. If the denoiser isnt working, fine. TAKE OUT RT you dumb cunts. Put the extra horsepower into hitting 1440p internal resolution and watch the PSSR run just like it does in Demon Souls and TLOU2. Pristine.
Remedy clearly has a lot of talent, but phoning in console ports over and over again is a really bad trend. It's insulting to the one userbase that IS [still] buying their games because the PC userbase has clearly deserted them. AW2 looks incredible on PC but shipping awful looking 60 fps modes, and bugged out 30 fps modes is not a way to earn goodwill from console gamers.
Really? You don't think the opinion of the people that buy the game matters?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
No need to say all this drivel just because of this one PS5 Pro port.
No need to vehemently defend their games anymore, they’re not Xbox exclusive, Mr. apple
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bender
What time is it?
In some areas, yes. In other areas, no.
And to tack onto my ambition sentiment, the scope of their games probably exceeds the demand across all platforms as it feels like that studio is always on the brink of collapse which is why we've seen the deals they've taken with the most recent example being EGS.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I can tell you don't hang around AW2 or Control discussions on GAF if that's all you have to say.
There's a reason why AW2 won 63 GoTY awards last year and was third only behind the juggernauts BG3 and Tears of the Kingdom.
kevboard
Member
yeah, but let's not act like this wasn't almost the norm back in Gen7.
drops to 20fps, full screen tearing, sub HD... these were expected, especially on PS3 but also on 360.
edit: case in point. Sony's big PS3 exclusive, designed specifically for the PS3
I honestly don't think the shift to 360 was the reason the open world was scrapped. the game still has many very large areas that you can seamlessly traverse, so that clearly wasn't the issue.
the shift to a linear game was probably down to budget constraints.
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