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[SF Kosmo]

Can you point to one example of this? I remember journalist grifters having a meltdown over there not being black people in KC but not anyone being upset that a game had a black character somewhere in it.

Assassin's Creed Shadows

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

AC Shadows?

"anywhere in the game"

Let's not move goal posts.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I feel like the word needs some qualifications first. Because it seems like 90% of what people call "woke" these days is not like Disco Elysium or Bioshock leftist politics (which, oddly enough, none of you seem to consider woke) but rather the existence of a black character anywhere in the game or some banal shit that Grummz told you to be mad about.

I generally don't notice or think about most of the shit people call "woke" in a game, i.e. the existence of racial or sexual minorities anywhere in the game. I live in a big diverse city and this sort of representation mirrors everyday life to me in a way that feels normal, not forced the way it does for some people.

But I also don't care if that shit isn't there either, like I don't avoid games for being "un-woke" either, I just don't care and find the whole discourse contrived engagement bait on both sides.

Now that said, if a game is cringe, then it's cringe. Dustborn can fuck off because it's badly written, embarrassing try-hard virtue signalling shit, and it doesn't have anything else to make up for it.

I couldn't agree more.

Game interest me because of their gameplay. Well and the IP they're connected to. I really couldn't care less about what is apparently "woke" to people. Hell, the topic and adjacent ones just feel like rage for the sake of raging these days. It's like nonstop rage bait.

If a game is good/great, I don't think anything that's "woke" is a driving factor on it. So, people don't react. But we've seen enough examples that fell flat on their face, and it wasn't because they were "woke" before they were a game. They were just a bad game to begin with. So "go woke go broke" doesn't really prove a point because the game itself is bad and failed because it was bad. Not because it was "woke" or whatever.

Dustborn wasn't a game anyone cared about. Hell, a ton (including myself) didn't even know about it before release. Just like that Greek god and goddess game. Along with whatever others, you get the idea, lol.

 

[MSduderino]

One can also think DEI practices have gone too far and are problematic, while also thinking anti-woke crusaders are childish snowflakes that overreact to the first sight of LGBT or POC character. I think there are some valid points about businesses trying too hard to be inclusive and cater to minorities. There's also an exaggeration of how much this is affecting the industry by some people. As some have mentioned, some decidedly "woke" games such as BG3 and Hogwarts Legacy sales have not been affected in the same way as Concord and DA Veilguard.

 

[Superkewl]

I voted "Yes, I do not buy" but after thinking about it, it depends.

Old bioware games such as Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 1 had gay and Bi relationships, however they were optional and avoidable, and they are among my all time favourite games. Even more recent games like Starfield had pronouns in the character creator, but as I recall, it actually had no effect on the game, so who really cares.

It all depends on how overtly the agenda pushing is I suppose.

 

[SF Kosmo]

"anywhere in the game"

Let's not move goal posts.

There are tons of games with people bitching about what they see as "forced diversity." Look at the discourse around The Witcher TV adaptation or whatever.

Hell, the Indiana Jones thread had people complaining that they had a WW1 veteran character who used a hearing aid. Stuff like that is just straight up diversity panic.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Never full price, at least.

 

[Singular7]

I wouldn't play a game promoting communism or adultery.

So yes, I will absolutely ban a 'woke' game, the philosophical points they are making are destructive.

I like genuine heroes, that become heroes, because they are righteous legends.

'woke' heroes are just losers reluctantly helping the peons they despise. Gross.

 

[Punished Miku]

 

[Luc2010]

I can tolerate a lot of things. TLOU didn't bother me at all but the new Dragon Age did. It literally had lectures on how to properly address a non-binary person.


Stuff like this is not what I will spend my money on.

Yes, the devs can push this slop to the crazies!

 

[SF Kosmo]

I wouldn't play a game promoting communism or adultery.

So yes, I will absolutely ban a 'woke' game. I like genuine heroes, that become heroes, because they are righteous legends.

'woke' heroes are just losers reluctantly helping the peons they despise. Gross.

You sound like someone who unironically watches Kevin Sorbo movies.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

There are tons of games with people bitching about what they see as "forced diversity." Look at the discourse around The Witcher TV adaptation or whatever.

Hell, the Indiana Jones thread had people complaining that they had a WW1 veteran character who used a hearing aid.

"the existence of a black character anywhere in the game"

Who is complaining that like a random npc is black? That's what you're implying.

 

[Luc2010]

Nope.

Played Star Wars Outlaws, Dragon Age Veilguard, Horizon FW and Burning Whores, TLOU2, and Spiderman 2 and enjoyed them all. Outlaws for its graphics, dragon age for its combat, and Im a big sony fan so it wasnt too hard to enjoy their games. i wish MJ and Abby were attractive, but they made Aloy attrractive and she still sucked as a character so I dont think it's that.

The wokeness in these games did bother me a bit, but only when I thought about it afterwards. I am mostly upset because i know this shit is going to hurt the games and studios, and I like these studios and dont want to see them shutdown.

I dont buy this whole I need to relate to a character nonsense. I dont relate to Tom Cruise. I didnt relate to Snake. I didnt relate to Arthur Morgan. When I played TLOU1, I wasnt even a father. A good character will intrigue you. That's all there is to it. No one related to Heath Ledger's joker. We just admired the performance and his shenanigans.

If anything I saw myself on screen, I would check out. Games and movies are about escapism.

I agree, I don't play games to see myself in someone else's shoes. I play them and watch good movies to escape reality for a change!

 

[SF Kosmo]

"the existence of a black character anywhere in the game"

Who is complaining that like a random npc is black? That's what you're implying.

You're getting a little aspie about this. I provided clear examples of the kind of diversity panic I am referring to, would you like to address them or just trying to hyper drill down on semantics?

 

[Wimbledon]

To a certain degree YES...that being said, there are certain genres of games that no matter what they do i wouldn't buy them. I don't like hero 5v5 shooter genre aka Overwatch, something like Concord even if wasn't as woke as it was still wouldn't have mattered, i still wouldn't buy it.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Bro. Ubisoft, one of the biggest game devs, is about to either close forever or get bought by Tencent.

DEI generates a lot of bad press. Just look at the reaction for the Intergalactic reveal and the like-dislike ratio on it's trailer. You think it's going to sell as much as TLOU? I doubt it. But I guess we'll see.


A lot people having the same opinion doesn't mean it's a hivemind, specially when the opinion could be taken as common sense.

In any case, if you think the general public is fine with this stuff, just go have a look at the reactions for Rings of Power or Snow White. You say it's "just" the right wingers and the anti-woke, but, what if those end up becoming the general opinion? Because I think we are headed towards that direction.

I think it’s one of those things where people became more and more aware of it over time. And the more they consciously noticed it, the more they hated it. “Woke” is just the label that got slapped on it now that people have become aware enough to give a name to this idea.

 

[Fess]

It was just Dina explaining her religious background? I don't recall that convo much but it didn't seem to preachy to me

Wait so they shoehorned religion into the mix with the lesbian couple and one part being foul mouthed Ellie?
It’s like a check box creation just to stir up conversations. Was there a trans muslim in there as well?

 

[Singular7]

You sound like someone who unironically watches Kevin Sorbo movies.

So funny, I loved Hercules in the 90's or whenever that was. You got me man! I like cheesy good people, not anti-heroes and dumpster fire people.

Stargate SG1, DS9, TNG, all the good classic solid messaging systems. I've never stolen in an Elder Scrolls game or given an 'evil' reply in a Mass Effect game LOL

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

You're getting a little aspie about this. I provided clear examples of the kind of diversity panic I am referring to, would you like to address them or just trying to hyper drill down on semantics?

You made a ridiculous claim and are now hurling insults when you can't back it up. Could have just admitted it was a stupid claim and we'd all have moved on.

 

[deriks]

It's most how woke is perceived in the game

Didn't care in Cyberpunk. It's just there. God of War Ragnarok has a nordic black vegan and feminist girl. It's just bullshit

 

[Hugare]

We are reaching the point where a game having a female lead can be called "woke" by some, so I dont know what you mean by woke.

My answer tho is: it depends. To me, forced inclusivity, "girl boss" stuff and etc. usually turns me off. If done correctly, I dont mind.

Bill in The Last of Us is inclusivty done right. His gender is not 100% of his personality. Him being straight or not, his story would have been the same, and thats awesome.

Pretty much every LGBT character in Cyberpunk was awesome. They dont spend time saying how they struggle for being gay, trans or whatever. If you dont go deep into Clair's substory you wouldnt even know she is trans.

What I cant stand is stuff like "telling my mother I'm non binary" cutscene in freaking Dragon Age.

 

[Gamer79]

We are reaching the point where a game having a female lead can be called "woke" by some, so I dont know what you mean by woke.

My answer tho is: it depends. To me, forced inclusivity, "girl boss" stuff and etc. usually turns me off. If done correctly, I dont mind.

Bill in The Last of Us is inclusivty done right. His gender is not 100% of his personality. Him being straight or not, his story would have been the same, and thats awesome.

Pretty much every LGBT character in Cyberpunk was awesome. They dont spend time saying how they struggle for being gay, trans or whatever. If you dont go deep into Clair's substory you wouldnt even know she is trans.

What I cant stand is stuff like "telling my mother I'm non binary" cutscene in freaking Dragon Age.

There is a difference between Sexual Lifesyle and wokeness. One is a choice and the other is an insane ideology.

 

[{insert code here}]

This isn't complicated at all, if you don't like me then don't ask me for my money (for something that is an optional expense, I don't need games to survive or live). That's all there is to it and these 'woke' games are made by people that don't like me.

 

[SF Kosmo]

You made a ridiculous claim and are now hurling insults when you can't back it up. Could have just admitted it was a stupid claim and we'd all have moved on.

I made a slightly hyperbolic formulation of a perfectly valid point that you refuse to engage with in a normal manner, even with plenty of clarification and examples. You're being deliberately obtuse. You know exactly what I mean when I talk about diversity panic and instead of engaging with that, you're just obsessing over "It's not ALL minority characters" as if that's a win.

 

[Topher]

Wokeness itself doesn't matter. It is how the message, whether it is woke or otherwise, is incorporated into the game. If it isn't done well then it really doesn't matter if it is woke or not, it is still going to suck.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

So many games to pick from now, so it's easy to avoid things I don't approve of.

 

[hinch7]

If a game has really cringe writing aka 'bigot sandwich' or something along the lines of that and SM2 mini games.. I'm out. Not got time for that.

I'm usually okay with a bit of wokeness in my games. As long as they don't go overboard with it.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

I made a slightly hyperbolic formulation of a perfectly valid point that you refuse to engage with in a normal manner

You made a claim, I asked for evidence. How was that not engaging in a normal manner?

You're the one who threw a tantrum insult.

, even with plenty of clarification and examples. You're being deliberately obtuse. You know exactly what I mean when I talk about diversity panic and instead of engaging with that, you're just obsessing over "It's not ALL minority characters" as if that's a win.

Wtf are you talking about? You said that people are upset if there's black people "anywhere in a game". I asked for an example and all you had was the MC of AC Shadows as if THAT was a win lmao.

 

[thefool]

If it's woke, i'm not their target so I decline to consume that type of product.
I did buy Ragnarok but if it was today I wouldn't, or at least I would wait until i got it dirty cheap second-hand.

 

[SF Kosmo]

So funny, I loved Hercules in the 90's or whenever that was. You got me man! I like cheesy good people, not anti-heroes and dumpster fire people.

Stargate SG1, DS9, TNG, all the good classic solid messaging systems. I've never stolen in an Elder Scrolls game or given an 'evil' reply in a Mass Effect game LOL

I meant like this kind of Kevin Sorbo movies, like where he defends his family from antifas in the woods and shit. That's what I think you like.

 

[spons]

Woke is contextual, so it all depends on how it's executed. Usually poorly.

 

[Humdinger]

I picked "do not buy," although I have to add, what makes a game "woke" to me is about the characters, story, and dialog. It's not (for example) about the inclusion of pronouns in a character menu. Different people draw the "It's woke" line in different places.

The inclusion/diversity also has to feel artificial and forced, rather than a natural part of the story. For example, I don't think just including a gay or transgender character makes a game "woke." Some people do, but I think they're misunderstanding what the term signifies.

 

[StereoVsn]

Assassin's Creed Shadows

The reason people didn’t like this particular bit wasn’t because the character was black but sheer ass backwardness of Ubisoft who after time and time again being asked to do AC Japan decides to do that by not actually having a male Japanese character.

Yes, we have Naomi as alternate character but everything from marketing to Ubi talks focused mainly on Yosuke.

If there was another AC in a different region with a black character in a time frame the makes sense, nobody would bat an eye (reasonable people).

However having this particular character in Shadows especially with those couple terrible initial reveals soured folks on the game.

 

[mdkirby]

At the end of the day, for me, it very much depends on the quality of the writing. Writing what people would describe as “woke”, is simply including political social commentary in the narrative. However, to do this and it not come across as incredibly preachy, and thus incredibly annoying, requires particularly good writer who are able to weave it in naturally and with subtlety and nuance.

The problem is MOST writers, especially in gaming, are just bang average or below average, and not sufficiently skilled to do so. The industry has started pushing this ideology in a very high percentage of major releases, and in the majority of times it’s done very badly. As a result of this, when people see indications/patterns, such as the character from intergalactic that telegraph this ideology, the assumption is immediately that it will be badly written, hamfisted disengenous preaching.

I play games for story. If the story is ruined by really poor attempts at handling topics beyond the writers skill, then it’s really off putting and sours the experience.

So yeah, I now wait until stuff is well reviewed and/or heavily discounted.

Naughty dog i do think have the capability to do it well (and have previously). My worry is a large number of people, seeing the pattern, will not give it a chance, and their decisions in the current political environment will be a major financial loss. Those pushing this stuff brought it on their selves by over playing their hand imo, it’s just pissed off many people and likely undone a lot of work of their forebears.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Woke is contextual, so it all depends on how it's executed. Usually poorly.

Let's be honest, grifters deliberately pick bad games to label as woke in order to affirm the "gamers are rejecting woke" narrative and avoid giving high quality, popular games the same treatment.

Baldur's Gate 3 can be about a racially diverse group of polyamorous pansexuals galumphing around the woods fucking bears, but Asmondgold isn't gonna call it woke because that would fuck up his narrative.

Same for, say, Bioshock, a whole game about the horrors of Anarcho-capitalism, but even die hard ancaps like Colin Moriarty will say it's one of their favorite games because it's objectively good.

But bad games like Suicide Squad or Concord? They get called wokedy woke woke because... Reasons. Gay pride skins and diverse characters or whatever. Doesn't matter if Fortnite and Overwatch and every other game have that shit, Concord and Suicide Squad are the ones we go for because their failure is useful to the grifter narrative.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

These excuses you people make up to justify excusing your favorite games from the inquisitions you partake in will never cease to amuse

What excuses?

I take it you don't play any of Microsoft's "Woke" games made by "Woke" developers for "Modern Audiences"?

 

[MSduderino]

Let's be honest, grifters deliberately pick bad games to label as woke in order to affirm the "gamers are rejecting woke" narrative and avoid giving high quality, popular games the same treatment.

Baldur's Gate 3 can be about a racially diverse group of polyamorous pansexuals galumphing around the woods fucking bears, but Asmondgold isn't gonna call it woke because that would fuck up his narrative.

Same for, say, Bioshock, a whole game about the horrors of Anarcho-capitalism, but even die hard ancaps loke Colin Moriarty will say it's one of their favorite games because it's objectively good.

But bad games like Suicide Squad or Concord? They get called wokedy woke woke because... Reasons. Gay pride skins and diverse characters or whatever. Doesn't matter if Fortnite and Overwatch and every other game have that shit, Concord and Suicide Squad are the ones we go for because their failure is useful to the grifter narrative.

Well said. I wonder what the anti-woke have to say about the successful "woke" games.

 

[Gp1]

I can tolerate a lot of things. TLOU didn't bother me at all but the new Dragon Age did. It literally had lectures on how to properly address a non-binary person.


Stuff like this is not what I will spend my money on.

I like the "choices" right after the exchange

You are right
You are right but different
She's wrong
She's so wrong

 

[Spitfire098]

Well said. I wonder what the anti-woke have to say about the successful "woke" games.

 

[Wolves hunt in packs]

I don't remember many games i didn't play because woke, i even somewhat enjoyed Saints Row 22, with it's cast of numbnuts.

My issue with woke is how they treat anything that in their imagination is wrong, RE5, KCD and the cream of the crop Hogwarts Legacy.

 

[AtomicStarving]

Yes. Why play this dog shit when theres a ton of old games to play... dont be stooopid

 

[Woggleman]

I could not care less. Woke has lost all meaning anyway.

 

[nkarafo]

The reason people didn’t like this particular bit wasn’t because the character was black but sheer ass backwardness of Ubisoft who after time and time again being asked to do AC Japan decides to do that by not actually having a male Japanese character.

Yes, we have Naomi as alternate character but everything from marketing to Ubi talks focused mainly on Yosuke.

If there was another AC in a different region with a black character in a time frame the makes sense, nobody would bat an eye (reasonable people).

However having this particular character in Shadows especially with those couple terrible initial reveals soured folks on the game.

You didn't have to explain that to him, he knows very well why this game got the flak it got, he is just being disingenuous.

 

[SF Kosmo]

My issue with woke is how they treat anything that in their imagination is wrong, RE5, KCD and the cream of the crop Hogwarts Legacy.

Yeah I am buying good games regardless of politics. I don't care about anyone's cancel discourse.

 

[Dr.brain64]

Does a Game being Woke effect your decision to buy the game​

No.

 

[Starbuck2907]

I’ve basically stopped buying games with a woke agenda crammed into them. I don’t mind diversity or people with sexual differences, but when the character creator has “chest scsr surgery” options or anything that feels forced, and a lot if it does, I’m out. I’m fine with subtlety but not in your face stuff, and I have no interest in struggles gay/transgender rights issues. If other people are into that, fine, but I have no interest in those plot points. I don’t like being preached too and it’s often preachy.

 

[SF Kosmo]

options or anything that feels forced,

Aren't options, by definition, not forced?

 

[InterMusketeer]

Well said. I wonder what the anti-woke have to say about the successful "woke" games.

• "Woke" is subjective, so people might consider games or elements woke when others don't.
• A lot of companies "sneak in the DEI vegetables" as one of their supporters once worded it. The overall meal could still be good, but one could still oppose certain ingredients.
• People are happy when games they dislike fail, so that's what they'll latch onto. It doesn't make much sense to celebrate a game you dislike succeeding.

I don't think it has much to do with maintaining a narrative, and more with how the internet operates.

 

[StereoVsn]

You didn't have to explain that to him, he knows very well why this game got the flak it got, he is just being disingenuous.

I would rather state again vs people keeping using the old excuse that everyone who didn’t like Yosuke in the game is racist.