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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

H

h3ro

Member
m0dus said:
I tip my hat to you sir. I think I'm going to go write that on a car.
Click to expand...

:lol The thought of this thread being immortalized on a livery is hilarious.


I'm so jealous, every time I sign on XBL, I see you playing the game :/
 
S

Saiyu

Junior Member
Xun said:
I could've sworn they got help from McLaren with physics?
Click to expand...

Dan G visited the McLaren simulator. Whether or not anything was incorporated into the physics engine I don't know.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Saiyu said:
Dan G visited the McLaren simulator. Whether or not anything was incorporated into the physics engine I don't know.
Click to expand...

Seems like a trend, I remember NFS boasting about visiting Porsche, and I believe GT visited an automaker too. Though I know for sure McLaren's setup is hot shit considering the state of the art facility they operate in.
 
Truespeed

Truespeed

Member
Someone needs to put a muzzle on this dog. Shit like this would break all of the Havok build test cases.

I’ve got huge respect for Yamauchi and what the Polyphony Digital team does, they’re a great developer. But do I personally feel confident that it would be difficult for any other racing game to do this,” he told CVG. “We run our physics at 360Hz. I don’t know of any other game that does that. That takes a commitment to physics, not just about making sure you have beautiful graphics.

“Forza 2 had great physics and okay graphics. Now Forza 3 has great physics and great graphics, because we learned more about the box. But we still prioritize physics first, not graphics first. That is one of the differences.

“Gran Turismo is a great game and when it comes out I’ll play it. But I think that without the partnerships and without the commitment, it will be very difficult for another team to replicate what we’ve done.
Click to expand...

2vt76mx.gif
 
F

fastford58

Member
skrew said:
Explained as what? Great 360 hz physics?

A TT hitting a wall at that speed wouldn't react like that in real life.
Click to expand...

Hmm, maybe you're right.

Go try it out for us, hmm? Better take Inferfectum, too, we will need more than just your word on it.
 
C

crazy monkey

Banned
I neither own ps3 or 360 nor I am expert at this so I am not here to judge anything but one thing i wanted to say if everything will be life like in the game than wouldn't it be boring?
 
S

Shurs

Member
crazy monkey said:
I neither own ps3 or 360 nor I am expert at this so I am not here to judge anything but one thing i wanted to say if everything will be life like in the game than wouldn't it be boring?
Click to expand...

In my life I'm pretty sure I'll never have the opportunity to drive high end sports cars at high speeds on tracks around the world. So the more "real" the cars are, the more I like it, as it'll be the closest I'll ever come to driving these cars.
 
C

crazy monkey

Banned
Shurs said:
In my life I'm pretty sure I'll never have the opportunity to drive high end sports cars at high speeds on tracks around the world. So the more "real" the cars are, the more I like it, as it'll be the closest I'll ever come to driving these cars.
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:O ok now i get the angle. The only racing game i have played is one of need for speed Porsche or something and Mario kart so i don't have good knowledge on this. I should go back OT :lol
 
A

Andronicus

Banned
fastford58 said:
Hmm, maybe you're right.

Go try it out for us, hmm? Better take Inferfectum, too, we will need more than just your word on it.
Click to expand...
that thing would have went over the cliff and or rolled multiple times before that....i'm just sayin.

as it stands neither games physics systems are "perfect". game world limitations.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
shinnn said:
Could be worse.. like that:
do2u0o.gif

think about it :lol
Click to expand...

one thing no one noticed in this gif is how ai cars turn on a dime after the impact and are ready to start racing again in a second, like there's strings pulling them.

It really looks like they're not affected by the same driving physics applied to the player's car,
Coupled with the basic ai it's not hard to understand how gt can pull 16 cars on the track.

Also, do all races in GT P have a 'rolling start' with cars strategically set 100 meters apart ? Because having 16 cars spread over 1 mile sure reduces the chances of them being onscreen at the same time, or at the very least, most of them will be so far from the camera a much lower lod can be applied.

On physics, yeah, 360 hz means little if the game is doing wrong calculations.
But try this for example; pick a small car in gt and while on a straight, turn left then right suddenly and left again.
Now do that in forza; the car will get progressively harder to control with each turn (i believe it's called 'pendulum' effect here, i don't know if it's the same in english) and you could even end up rolling your car.
GT seems to ignore this almost completely; regardless of all the other variables Fm seems to take into account (which GT doesn't) this alone is a huge part of driving: when on a series of S's especially you have to menage your car's body roll carefully. GT was the first console game to really make you feel your car's weight and traction, but while PD keeps refining their physics engine, other devs made strides in that regard.

Also: insidesimracing on clutch and transmission in fm3

Here's one tid bit from our review that should be up tonight..

F3 has the best modeled clutch and transmission that we have tested.. Better than Netkar, iRacing or any other sim for that matter.
Click to expand...
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
shinnn said:
Gameswire: All modern games have small bugs and issues, and in Forza 3’s case, everything moves so quickly that you won’t even notice the collision problems.


Could be worse.. like that:

do2u0o.gif


think about it :lol
Click to expand...
:lol
 
S

Shaneus

Member
I've only just noticed... but are there TWO cars following each other that collide, follow the exact same line, turn at exactly the same place then keep going?

Wow. It doesn't even make sense.
 
B

belvedere

Junior Butler
Shaneus said:
I've only just noticed... but are there TWO cars following each other that collide, follow the exact same line, turn at exactly the same place then keep going?

Wow. It doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

Yet it still looks a generation ahead of FM3.

:lol
 
J

joey_z

Banned
Shaneus said:
I've only just noticed... but are there TWO cars following each other that collide, follow the exact same line, turn at exactly the same place then keep going?

Wow. It doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

Actually only the red car can be seen coming from the back. It hits the blue car (which is stationary uptill that point) which hits the other blue car. The red and blue car then continue on course. It still looks super retarded how they follow the same exact line after colliding.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Shaneus said:
I've only just noticed... but are there TWO cars following each other that collide, follow the exact same line, turn at exactly the same place then keep going?

Wow. It doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you look closely (I just noticed this) the back car hits the static car facing forwards which hits the Subaru, the back car integrates with the car in front of it about halfway and then they both drive off together.
 
M

m0dus

Banned
Good lord, are people coming on in shifts? Is there somewhere that you guys are clocking IN or something? The same 2 stupid FM3 and GT5 gifs are getting put up again and again IN SEQUENCE for fuck's sake. :lol
 
C

cakefoo

Member
eso76 said:
Also, do all races in GT P have a 'rolling start' with cars strategically set 100 meters apart ? Because having 16 cars spread over 1 mile sure reduces the chances of them being onscreen at the same time, or at the very least, most of them will be so far from the camera a much lower lod can be applied.
Click to expand...
Well, there's a nice conspiracy theory.


On physics, yeah, 360 hz means little if the game is doing wrong calculations.
But try this for example; pick a small car in gt and while on a straight, turn left then right suddenly and left again.
Now do that in forza; the car will get progressively harder to control with each turn (i believe it's called 'pendulum' effect here, i don't know if it's the same in english) and you could even end up rolling your car.
GT seems to ignore this almost completely--
Click to expand...
I can't recall GT1-GT2 because I was too young to pay that much attention to physics back in those days, but every GT game since at least GT4 has this effect, and if you don't countersteer properly your car can go sideways.

Also, there will be rollovers in GT5, if a recent interview was translated correctly.
 
H

hukasmokincaterpillar

Member
eso76 said:
GT seems to ignore this almost completely
Click to expand...

Are we talking about GT5p? Body roll and inertia are pretty plain as day in my experience.

In fact when it comes to weight transfer issues I found some aspects of Forza 3's driving model pretty curious myself. Like being able to muscle out of a 100+mph oversteering Porsche, lock to lock, without any throttle modulation whatsoever. Foot to the floor. Thats some wicked downforce. ;)

But all these sims have their quirks.
 
R

Recoil

Member
m0dus said:
Good lord, are people coming on in shifts? Is there somewhere that you guys are clocking IN or something? The same 2 stupid FM3 and GT5 gifs are getting put up again and again IN SEQUENCE for fuck's sake. :lol
Click to expand...

Welcome to the InsanityThread™.



It turns out Bish's 'trap' all along was simply this:
The realization that arguing with retards is like slamming your head against a brick wall, and does about as much good.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
Are we talking about GT5p? Body roll and inertia are pretty plain as day in my experience.

In fact when it comes to weight transfer issues I found some aspects of Forza 3's driving model pretty curious myself. Like being able to muscle out of a 100+mph oversteering Porsche, lock to lock, without any throttle modulation whatsoever. Foot to the floor. Thats some wicked downforce. ;)

But all these sims have their quirks.
Click to expand...

It's all because of the supposed accessibility. Both Forza and GT series come nowhere near PC sims because they for some silly reason feel that it would drive away customers. Maybe all the fanboys need their ego-boost and the delusion that they're better at controlling racecars than Richard Hammond (a reference to the F1 test drive he had).
 
H

hukasmokincaterpillar

Member
Both Forza and GT series come nowhere near PC sims
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When it comes to driving models I'd disagree. iRacing is the only one I don't have much experience with but the latest from Forza and GT are quite comparable to the GTRs, rFactor's and Live for Speeds now (with a quality wheel at least). They all skin the cat in different ways but the maths behind this stuff have been around for years. Its all different interpretations.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
When it comes to driving models I'd disagree. iRacing is the only one I don't have much experience with but the latest from Forza and GT are quite comparable to the GTRs, rFactor's and Live for Speeds now (with a quality wheel at least). They all skin the cat in different ways but the maths behind this stuff have been around for years. Its all different interpretations.
Click to expand...

My experience is mainly that there's a shitload more grip in console sims. Now it may be that I just got better at it, so in honor of my new PC I'm going to go and scour Steam for a racing sim.
 
H

hukasmokincaterpillar

Member
jakonovski said:
My experience is mainly that there's a shitload more grip in console sims.
Click to expand...

Yeah GT's R tires are pretty crazy, but N1-S2 brings out the nuances of the driving model. I haven't had enough experience with F3 yet, but the demo was awfully forgiving in comparison to similar rides in Prologue. RW drive especially. I was getting away with some shit I really didn't expect to.
 
P

phil_t

Banned
This is all getting highly amusing from both sides..

I think to rag on the roll-over physics and present that of any type of 'overall physics' illustration is exceedingly weak.

I'm sure physics contains at least 3 elements, the driving/grip, the collision, and the roll-over physics.

We can see clearly that the roll-over physics are pure arcade and really more of an after thought, it clearly has much room for improvement, but so what? it's not been mentioned by any review as anything major, it's certainly a hit and miss affair in the very rare circumstances that you get the odd rollover/collision glitch, it's a minor presentation issue IMO.

It's also lame to pick on the GT5 cars amalgamating instances, clearly this is not the final product, and I'm sure will be much improved for the final build.

I think when you have to scrape the barrel to find 'glitches' or behaviour that only occurs in very infrequent circumstances, you have no argument left, this is clear..

I'm happy that the reviews are out, FM3 is a AAA racing game that delights, the vast majority of the reviewers didn't remotely stop to examine the idiotic things that are discussed here, they played the game and really enjoyed themselves, the game is the best Racing game at the time of it's launch, some of what T10 are proud of has come true, some of it is marketing drivel that you really should be man enough to look past and not get caught up in. To be so easily led by such things really shows a naivety and susceptence to being weak minded that isn't endearing.

When GT5 comes out, I hope it's everything we want it to be, and that it's then the best racing game in the genre at that time.. What is wrong with both having their day?


And on the Suzuka shots, these are very different between games, interestingly despite the obvious;y increased aliasing of FM3 it still manages to sustain a degree more detail in just about everything, the fences are still present (not just the posts), the pylons retain more of their 'wires' for a further distance, the whole detail at distance is actually very impressive. GT5p IMO is rendering probably half the detail, and it's so clean in places that surprisingly it looks crisper and cleaner which in some ways looks better for it..

I'd say that in motion FM3 is going to look more visceral, lots of detail flying around, but GT5p has a more serene clean/crisp look about it that I'm sure appeals to many people..

It's not a white-wash in either direction, but we all know this anyway, however that opinion has no real place in this thread does it..?
 
eso76

eso76

Member
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
Are we talking about GT5p? Body roll and inertia are pretty plain as day in my experience.
Click to expand...

there is some but it's not what i'd expect. Although visually gt does a much better job at depicting weight transfer, steering all the way in either direction and then steering in the opposite direction doesn't produce the drastic weight shifting resulting in your car losing stability that happens in forza and, for my experience, in real life.
I tried this with a few cars in GT5P and suddenly turning right after a left turn feels almost the same as turning right when your car is going perfectly straight.

Of course console sims all have a few strange issues with cars behaviour, and i am also a little skeptic about how easy it is to control countersteering at 200mph in forza, but i would guess the fact both games have to be playable for a majority of pad users forced devs to include driving aids besides those you can turn off (steering lock at higher speeds, for example), I haven't tried either with a proper wheel (hope i'll get that fanatec delivered before the end of oct. but it doesn't sound likely at this point) and i believe driving model and even physics might change significantly, so direct and more in depth comparisons will have to wait till i can test both games with the same wheel, hoping fanatec works the way it should with GTP and GT5.
 
S

ShapeGSX

Member
skrew said:
Explained as what? Great 360 hz physics?

A TT hitting a wall at that speed wouldn't react like that in real life.
Click to expand...

It's not a TT. But basically, they can't make production cars disintegrate when they hit a wall. They were only just able to talk the auto manufacturers into letting them roll the cars over in Forza 3. Ford doesn't want to see their Mustang in a simulated crash in a game where the passenger compartment is compromised, and the driver would be injured or killed. It is bad PR.

So, without the ability to deform the vehicles, high speed collisions really just don't look right. But they do what they can with the license they have been granted by the manufacturers.
 
Apex

Apex

Member
eso76 said:
Also, do all races in GT P have a 'rolling start' with cars strategically set 100 meters apart ? Because having 16 cars spread over 1 mile sure reduces the chances of them being onscreen at the same time, or at the very least, most of them will be so far from the camera a much lower lod can be applied.
Click to expand...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17375304&postcount=8244

eso76 said:
But try this for example; pick a small car in gt and while on a straight, turn left then right suddenly and left again.
Now do that in forza; the car will get progressively harder to control with each turn (i believe it's called 'pendulum' effect here, i don't know if it's the same in english) and you could even end up rolling your car.
GT seems to ignore this almost completely; regardless of all the other variables Fm seems to take into account (which GT doesn't) this alone is a huge part of driving: when on a series of S's especially you have to menage your car's body roll carefully. GT was the first console game to really make you feel your car's weight and traction, but while PD keeps refining their physics engine, other devs made strides in that regard.
Click to expand...
What?? do you play with arcade physics, race tires and all aids on?

GT5P:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r18asYISVRM#t=6m07s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r18asYISVRM#t=7m05s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r18asYISVRM#t=3m32s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIJbrUn7-68#t=2m11s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIJbrUn7-68#t=3m29s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbAi4yBdlRs

GT4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLbc36C5cOQ

Tank slapper physics always has been one of the weak point in Forza games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWDG7N15Drg#t=1m35s

shinnn said:
Could be worse.. like that:

http://i35.tinypic.com/do2u0o.gif

think about it :lol
Click to expand...
Still the king: :D

2cfr044.jpg
 
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