Omar Ismail said:
Now that F3 has come out and we have the reviews and everything. I have a question for gt fans. Do you think it will review better or worse than F3?
Doc Evils said:
That's like asking if Modern Warfare 2 will review better than Resistance 2.
Omar Ismail said:
I don't even know what you're implying here. Is GT or Forza supposed to be the equivalent of MW2?
CrushDance said:
Lets see.
NFS 100mil+
Mario Kart 46mil+
Gran Turismo 50mil+(3.9 million for the "demo")
Forza
?
Forza is a good series but it's nowhere close to those three in terms of reception.
Vast Inspiration said:
Its so amusing to see the GT fans being so defensive. Its like theres no possible way for a newcomer racing game lol its already on its 3rd iteration) can't possibly take the crown away from the precious pioneer. I mean, these guys didn't acknowledge Forza because PS2 was so easily destroying the Xbox and GT fans could just ignore the better reviewing game and take about sales if need be.
Then Forza 2 comes out and they can make fun of the graphics and ignore it since theres no mainline GT equivalent on the PS3.
Now, Forza 3 has come out, its perfected everything Turn 10 has been doing for the past 5 years, and it widely being hailed as the best console racing sim. And now that the GT equivalent is going to come out in a few months
they're getting more and more defensive again. Whats pathetic is that if all else fails, and even the graphics aren't enough to sway the scores, then they'll just point to sales. Okay sure, theres no doubt that GT5 will sell more, but how much will those fans die inside if it doesn't score as well as Forza 3?
Please tell me "fanboys" you were posting about in you first reply. Before you edited with this:
In a discussion about quality and REVIEWS, what possibly made you think that mentioning MW2 was a refrence to sales?
Even the original guy who brought it up used it to troll Forza, but not with sales numbers, but because MW2 will definitely score higher than Resistance 2.
Too bad that GT4, GT HD, GT PSP, GT Prologue have all failed to score even remotely in the 90s. Keep hanging on GT fans, grasp those straws!
Really? MW is well known for its quality and not its sales? Gotcha. Forza has achieved mostly 9/10's, top tier scores and is sitting at a 92. It is not a troll to state that GT5 can score higher. The reason sales were brought up was because everyone conveniently forgot that there are tons of great games that do not have become mega sellers. A fact that was brought up many times in the past to the games I listed
CrushDance said:
So then. KZ2, U2, LBP, U1 etc
That was what I said. You are the one who went flying off the handle and started talking about fanboys, defensiveness and how GT5 is some kind of teddy bear. Please explain how saying that Forza does not have the same level of success as NFS, GT and MarioKart equal a troll. The PS3 exclusives I brought up illustrated that exact point that you've been ignoring. No matter how great a game does in scores, it does not make it "the best". That is what sales reflect, there are games that sell tons and are and yet are still considered inferior to those in the same category which sell less.
You are arguing as if you think GT5 will score lower than F3. Lets say the score the exact same then, how else would you compare the two? You're making this into something that it's not. many gaffers considered KZ2 for example to be a failure as it only got past 1million copies, yet it scored great. Do you not see the resemblance to this situation? Nobody knows how far F3 will go on to sell. But to argue that it will surpass GT5 when Prologue sold 3mil is wrong.
Vast Inspiration said:
HOLY SHIT! Dude, what is wrong with you? Try and read your last post and my response a couple of times.
I AM THE ONE thats saying that you should stick to the discussion of quality and reviews. YOU are the one that brought up sales. My lord, and then you turn around and try to sound like I'm the one talking about judging games based on sales. I don't know if you're dense or if this is some deflected troll.
I'll explain this very clearly and easily for you...
Somebody brought up a comparison between MW2 and Resistance 2. This was NOT a sales based comparison, but a quality/review based one.
YOU then turned that comparison in to a sales based one and equated Gran Turismo to MW2 because of the high sales. Thats why I was mocking you.
I'll repeat it again. When all else is the same, what is there left to compare? You seem angry about the fact that GT is a bigger series than Forza. Why aren't you arguing the same for NFS or Mario kart? Obviously I'm trolling those as well, even though NFS is far bigger than GT.
I'm saying that there's no point sticking to this review/quality standard because as explained time and time again in various NPD threads on Gaf, sales are the final decider for these games. What is a trollish about that? GT5 will more than likely score at least on par with F3. So are we just going to ignore all the PS3 exclusives that "bombed" then in relation to Halo? MW? WiiFit? SMG? If this argument was so valid back when all those games released and Quantity>Quality. Why can't it be used now?
Vast Inspiration said:
So you admit that I only spoke of reviews and you brought up sales...so then why the hell were you trying to frame it as if I am equating sales to quality? So you so full of shit.
You specificalyl accussed me of implying that sales = quality by bringing up the whole Killzone/Uncharted/LBP argument. So save your breath, you can't wiggle out of your bullshit.
And at least you admit that you brough up sales as your answer, confirming my original hypothesis that GT fans only have sales to fall back on.
:lol
If ANYONE in this thread was interested in an apples to apples comparison, they wouldn't be comparing a game thats been in development for 2 years to a game thats been in development for 5 with a hugely inflated budget simply because its the one series Sony has that is a guaranteed sales hit.
And you'd think that since Polyphony made all of those titles I mentioned, that they would at least be in the same ballpark in terms of quality. And if you make the argument that only a small number of people are handling those side projects, then that only reinforces my point that GT5 has been in development for far too long with an icnredibly amount of resources put into it.
Exacty. What good are more cars (10 variations of the same type) and better graphics, when you're not having fun? The single player structure definitely needs to improve in GT. It was crazy that they actually thought they could get away with removing the career in the PSP version. PD has demonstrated some really poor design philosophies in their past few games. On top of that, the online racing and customization of races will be an important factor. And to top it off, a sim racer needs to have a great reward structure and the ability to really personalize your cars, something that Forza excels in again.
So, I have no doubt that GT will have lots of bullet points, but the jury is still out on whether they can deliver a solid career structure with lots of online options, and car customization that can beat Forza. And this isn't even taking into account the actual driving model.
Once again you're bringing your emotions into this. I never said YOU said those words did I? You'd have to be blind to not see this argument used before on Gaf. And why else wouldn't sales be the final answer? What else are you going to compare? Do you honestly think GT5 will score lower than F3?
And I'm the troll. You're the one attacking PD and praising Forza. nobody else has talked smack about either game apart from you. Being insulted over the FACT that GT will outsell F3 is what brought this up. GT can't compare to F3 to you, we get it. But don't try and act like you're a saint when you use such choice wording.
Vast Inspiration said:
Oh please, after the bullshit troll, the accusatory rambling, and subsequent back peddling you displayed on this very page, you really shouldn't be talking.
Let me demolish you once again.
You clearly accuse me of equating sales to quality.
And then you back peddle and outright LIE and say that you were only trying to say that quality does not lead to sales. You are so full of shit. You got called out for it. Now give it a rest.
And this isn't even taking into account your terrible troll of trying to demean Forza by saying its not comparable to the "big three" because of sales. You're laughable.
Sounds like you. I was talking about sales. Do you still not understand? Did I say it was not comparable as a game or in sales? Go back up and tell me please. You're the one ignoring the elephant in the room and falling back on how it's a good game, did ANYONE disagree with that? No. Yet you're getting hyper defensive and projecting the idea that people are trolling.
Vast Inspiration said:
No need. I could not make your outright lies and hypocrisy any clearer, even to a 5 year old.
You already tried to back peddle, nothing more will help.
Fail. I was actually in some great matches and have people to prove that for me, no need though. I could post all your BS about GT, PS and more but I won't. I wasn't trolling and never slammed Forza in any way, you're the one attacking GT and spinning.