In terms of singleplayer, I hope they bring back massive and expansive levels like in Halo 1, 3 and Reach. There are lots of levels where the skybox is big in Halo 5 and it visually look vast but the actual playing area is still really small, even the vehicle levels feel like corridors and claustrophobic.
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It Has Been Almost 2 Years Without a FPS Halo Reveal (New Record). What Is 343 up To?
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
Berserking Guts
Member
They lost me after Reach. I personally want them to start over from the beginning, just bring it back to the Covenant and put humanity on the defensive again and make it small scale like Halo 1.
Basically just do Halo 1 again.
Basically just do Halo 1 again.
NippleViking
Banned
How many open world games can you list as masterpieces?
Halo has always been a sandbox buoyed by big set-pieces, co-operative play, and tugged along by a tight but simple narrative. Going open world would compromise all of these tenets. Current Halo simply can't support a Breath of the Wild style rethink.
Meeting CE's potential to me has never meant going open world, but dialing the Sandbox up to 11.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Personally I think they need to no longer ship with mediocre / good campaigns and need to do something great and somewhat fresh.
What they have tried so far has not worked for me and has failed to set the same scale of imaginations alight.
What they have tried so far has not worked for me and has failed to set the same scale of imaginations alight.
Jack Scofield
Member
All I know is that I don't envy 343's position. Just look at the varied and sometimes contradictory ideas from fans about what makes a great Halo game.
I hope theres a steam halo 6 port. That's all I want. I really don't like the windows store.
I don't really have too many complaints about 343i halo gameplay because im not super picky like alot if Halo fans. I even enjoyed Reach. Like if they some how removed sprint I'd be happy and If sprint stayed I wouldn't be upset.
But the next game needs to launch with both competitive and casual modes. It took way too long for halo 5 to get an action sack and it was never as varied as the same mode in 3 and 4. Most of my Halo 5 complaints come from the story mode and launch content
I don't really have too many complaints about 343i halo gameplay because im not super picky like alot if Halo fans. I even enjoyed Reach. Like if they some how removed sprint I'd be happy and If sprint stayed I wouldn't be upset.
But the next game needs to launch with both competitive and casual modes. It took way too long for halo 5 to get an action sack and it was never as varied as the same mode in 3 and 4. Most of my Halo 5 complaints come from the story mode and launch content
MeatGrinder
Member
The art style is so important. Make it more as halo 2 anniversary.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Honestly yeah, its a big problem for Halo. Theres the folks who want more of an evolution of Halo 2/3, the folks who like path 4/5 have been taking things (yes, they exist), and the folks that want the mythical something new, among others. And even within each group there are those who want different things. And fans of the story are aaaaall over the place.
RSB
Banned
Don't worry, they are making Halo CE 2.
Believe.
But seriously, I would love that.
Long time fan, didnt play Halo 5 because I dont own an XB1.
I think they need to do a few things:
- refine multiplayer but add some big intriguing new ideas alongside their fantastic Arena system. Make sure ranking is tip top and, yea, sure, build a cool as fuck Batte Royale mode. Battle Royale works as part of the cannon with Spartan training.
- introduce a new class of enemies that - unlike the Prometheans - are actually fun to fight. They need to rely on best in class AI. The Brutes werent the best enemy in the world but they had clear, superb AI design. The way they worked together in groups and went Beserk through key triggers meant they were fun to tackle. I love shooting Elites and Grunts but I need something else. Dont try and refine Prometheans, theyre crap, move on
- use the Xbox X hardware. Halo needs to return to actually blowing people away on a technical/art level. One of the reasons for Halo 5s general feeling of meh was its lack of clear Halo set pieces
I think they need to do a few things:
- refine multiplayer but add some big intriguing new ideas alongside their fantastic Arena system. Make sure ranking is tip top and, yea, sure, build a cool as fuck Batte Royale mode. Battle Royale works as part of the cannon with Spartan training.
- introduce a new class of enemies that - unlike the Prometheans - are actually fun to fight. They need to rely on best in class AI. The Brutes werent the best enemy in the world but they had clear, superb AI design. The way they worked together in groups and went Beserk through key triggers meant they were fun to tackle. I love shooting Elites and Grunts but I need something else. Dont try and refine Prometheans, theyre crap, move on
- use the Xbox X hardware. Halo needs to return to actually blowing people away on a technical/art level. One of the reasons for Halo 5s general feeling of meh was its lack of clear Halo set pieces
CaptainClaw
Member
Halo 4's Promethean weren't fun to fight but Halo 5's were fine and worked well each other (they could tone down the soldiers)...and its funny because the Brutes in Halo 2 weren't fun to fight at all
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Geez, really? Warzone Firefight sacrifices everything that made Halo combat good in order to push those numbers. What encounter design is there to mess around with when Warzone Firefight's enemies don't have their AI? Shooting an Elite-shaped mannequin who can't even leave its spawn point is the least rewarding experience in the entire series, closely followed by a team of 8 sitting in their REQ tanks dumping at a motionless "boss" for minutes on end.
I thought Halo 5 was a step in the right direction, but that mode made me lose all faith in 343's ability to understand what made Halo work. It's such a massive misunderstanding.
Halo 5's Prometheans were stripped of nearly all of their defining abilities. While it made them easier, that's not what I'd call an improvement.
Yeah, Prom Knight fights never got as frustrating in 5, but that's because all they could do is stand in one place and look confused as you kept taking them apart piece by piece.
Kabuki Waq
Member
They realized how important split screen is and started from scratch
343i are clearly skilled at the most important aspect of FPS, which is gunplay, it cannot be said enough, nothing comes close to Halo 5 gunplay, its brilliant. Id usually be down on a developer if they fail to live up to core aspects of a beloved franchise, but seeing what they achieved with H5 gives me hope that the guys are capable of greatness, the base is there (in fact its delivered) they need to work at putting it all together, design, story and gameplay scenario's.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Hopefully theyre making sure the campaign is good. Multiplayer needs minimal change.
A few of these are personal preference (indeed 'masterpiece' is subjective) but the majority of them are critically acclaimed. I adore all of these games and would happily argue they're masterpieces in one way or another:
Horizon: Zero Dawn
MGSV
The Witcher 3
STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl, Call of Pripyat
Fallout: NV
GTA III, SA and V
RDR
Watch Dogs 2 (imo)
Elder Scrolls: Morrowind
Batman: Arkham City, Arkham Knight
Dead Rising
BotW
Dark Souls (arguably open world)
Prey (arguably open world)
Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Mankind Divided (arguably open world)
Ghost Recon: Wildlands (imo)
A couple of them even have no RPG/strategy systems whatsoever - or at least aren't buoyed by that.
What?
- Big set pieces can happen in open world (cf. Horizon, GTA V, MGSV, Uncharted 4/TLL).
- sandboxes are enhanced by open world (indeed the majority of GTA players barely ever complete one mission because they immediately play with the sandbox. Games like Horizon and Far Cry are enhanced by encouraging the different in-game factions and wildlife to get into fights - imagine doing this dynamically with Flood, Covenant, etc)
- co-op shines in open world (W_D2, GTA, Ghost Recon Wildlands and Far Cry 4 are all unbelievable fun with open world co-op)
The only thing which could be lost is the 'tight but simple narrative' - but as I said, with careful design this can also be achieved (cf. Uncharted 4 and The Lost Legacy). That said, it's something which is only really being explored for the first time this gen.
'Open world design' != 'Breath of the Wild style rethink'.
There is more than one type of open world.
One of the best ways to 'dial the sandbox up to 11' is to give it an open world sandbox with a carefully controlled ecology of enemies, dynamic events and exploration. Imagine enemy presence starting low key but scaling up as you progress and get deeper into the world/story. Vehicles, weapons and equipment carefully gated by story progression. Perhaps whole chunks of the ring inaccessible until you progress more (the GTA III 'locked island' small-open world idea). Exploration incentivised by offering equipment and lore.
CaptainClaw
Member
Yh but I mean you can trace that back to Halo 2-now...Halo 2 having the Jackal Snipers...Halo 3 the Brute war chieftain would act the same as the Promethean and players would have to piece them off, same as Halo Reach and the Elite Zealots with Ranged Weapons, they all stand still and duck to cover. Obviously I'm speaking in terms of playing on Legendary
Multiplayer needing minimal change is highly debatable. Only the vocal minority is currently saying that the MP is perfect and doesn't need to be changed, while everyone else moved on to play something else. If it were any different, H5 wouldn't be on #21 in the Most Played section.
The Greek Freak
Member
Honestly thing 343 should make something else and have a new team take a crack at halo. I've actively disliked all of 343's halo work. At this point I wouldn't even be interested in another halo game from them.
Halo 5s prometheans were still trash. No feedback when taking damage. They all use weapons with homing properties. Soldiers constantly teleport away all over the place - a canceling any good positioning you fought for. Not fun at all.
CaptainClaw
Member
Yh well if Prometheans are trash then all im saying is so were the others I mentioned...and yes I agree with the soldier statement as stated in my previous post
CaptainClaw
Member
An ancient Halo would definitely be a unique setting for a semi-open world, I have to say.
The series trump card, though, should be AI. That's what made the gameplay so interesting, especially since the enemies could interact in the same sandbox as you. The Prometheans are so 1-dimensional and boring to fight.
Personally, I'm glad that people are happy with the competitive arena-style multiplayer, but I hope they work on the bigger scale multiplayer as well. BTB was my reason to play Halo. Maybe a bit more influence from Battlefield, for example. Halo 5's few large maps felt like enlarged versions of arena maps and quite enclosed/controlled, rather than chaotic theaters of war. Their sterile, angular art style doesn't help.
The series trump card, though, should be AI. That's what made the gameplay so interesting, especially since the enemies could interact in the same sandbox as you. The Prometheans are so 1-dimensional and boring to fight.
Personally, I'm glad that people are happy with the competitive arena-style multiplayer, but I hope they work on the bigger scale multiplayer as well. BTB was my reason to play Halo. Maybe a bit more influence from Battlefield, for example. Halo 5's few large maps felt like enlarged versions of arena maps and quite enclosed/controlled, rather than chaotic theaters of war. Their sterile, angular art style doesn't help.
ft... fy?
Case in point - Halo 3: ODST.
No, seriously, how do you even talk about open world Halo without mentioning ODST?
It ticks all the boxes, including the narrative. Open world Halo has been a solved problem for a long-ass time, and it's fantastic.
Jackal snipers had their damage reduced, they didn't lose any of their abilities. Before 343 took over enemies tended to gain new abilities to make them more interesting to fight even if they were made significantly easier to deal with.
I don't know how you can compare Chieftains to Halo 5's Prometheans. Brutes had the pack dynamic, they were agile, they could use equipment, they went berserk. Fighting them on equal footing is a completely different story.
Everlya_Apocryha
Banned
Gee, I dunno...what's the halo studio developing now? Could it be....GASP....another halo?
CaptainClaw
Member
Sorry I wasn't clear what I meant was Halo 3's War Chieftain is similar to the Promethean knights...as in they stay in their perimeters don't charge at you unless close up and fire heavy fire at you even at long distances...when shot they go quickly hide back into cover. On Legendary you take them out step by step from range just like the knights (I dont mean the Brute Chieftains with the hammer)...these guys
lol no
CaptainClaw
Member
We'll agree to disagree I guess
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Halo five was such a terrible game that has almost completely killed my interest for one of my favorite franchises ever. I will wait and see what they do with halo six next year, but I will also wait for a deep discount because I dont trust them anymore
Naudyboy16
Member
I would love a big budget campaign ala Halo: 3 ODST, It's how I envisioned their next major campaign after Halo 3 but that never happened.
With this being "the last game" in the MC's life, I don't think they're going to do something completely different. I see them delivering the same style of campaign but on their biggest scale because it's the finale. Theyre not going to completely change it up for that game in the series even though they probably should.
Regardless, they have yet to let me down. I don't think 4's campaign was great like the other ones, but 5 was at least somewhat interesting even though it only gave us half of the MC's story. I do miss fighting the other fractions like the brutes. It's sort of weird that they've completely disappeared from the series.
With this being "the last game" in the MC's life, I don't think they're going to do something completely different. I see them delivering the same style of campaign but on their biggest scale because it's the finale. Theyre not going to completely change it up for that game in the series even though they probably should.
Regardless, they have yet to let me down. I don't think 4's campaign was great like the other ones, but 5 was at least somewhat interesting even though it only gave us half of the MC's story. I do miss fighting the other fractions like the brutes. It's sort of weird that they've completely disappeared from the series.
I mean, you mostly fought soldiers and crawlers. Neither of which offer great feedback - both of which primarily bombard you with homing projectiles - and then randomly traverse the map in an annoying way to get cheap flanks.
Halo combat is at its best when you can run & gun. Both of these enemies are designed to make take pot shots out of cover.
That leaves us with the Knights, who are slightly improved from their H4 counter parts.
Still, overall, they are a terrible enemy faction. Are their other annoying enemies in halo history? Sure. But these guys are the main baddy now- and none of them are even close to being as enjoyable as the good elements of the Covenant. It's a downgrade.
I hope they go for a quicker announce to release cycle, which at this rate it seems they might be doing that.
I think the MP for Halo 5 is a great base to build on, but it just needs more content right out of the gate. One of my requests would be Big Team with 343 built maps. There's a lot of stuff they could add to MP that would make it feel like a complete package, and the good news is that they've sort of been doing that with the game for the past few years.
I think the gameplay in 5's campaign was great. The play spaces were more open, enemy types more engaging, and the sandbox was better utilized than in Halo 4 where it was just too linear. I think more of that would be great as long as they expand the scale to what we saw in CE or 3.
The story.... I mean, they are kind of in a bad place for that because they really doubled down on all of this crazy stuff with Cortana and what not. Would definitely appreciate a few left turns in the story, a bit more mystery, and less shark jumping overall. Halo 5's story was all over the map, so this is the area I'll really be looking for in the next game to improve.
I think the MP for Halo 5 is a great base to build on, but it just needs more content right out of the gate. One of my requests would be Big Team with 343 built maps. There's a lot of stuff they could add to MP that would make it feel like a complete package, and the good news is that they've sort of been doing that with the game for the past few years.
I think the gameplay in 5's campaign was great. The play spaces were more open, enemy types more engaging, and the sandbox was better utilized than in Halo 4 where it was just too linear. I think more of that would be great as long as they expand the scale to what we saw in CE or 3.
The story.... I mean, they are kind of in a bad place for that because they really doubled down on all of this crazy stuff with Cortana and what not. Would definitely appreciate a few left turns in the story, a bit more mystery, and less shark jumping overall. Halo 5's story was all over the map, so this is the area I'll really be looking for in the next game to improve.
Dougieflesh
Member
I hope they get rid of the Promethean bullet sponges and learn how to make good multiplayer maps. H5 had good gameplay, but it's maps weren't good at all.
My wish list for Halo 6
100% Chief
MP was great just get rid of the card system, better maps and some tweaking.
If they are sticking with the Prometheans make the next group more intelligent and emotional. Hearing the enemy talk and react to you and each other is what helped make the earlier games be more immersive and fun.
Tell the story in the damn game. All the extra crap while it was cool, ended up being pointless. If you want to flesh out the world have a radio playing that the chief can listen to, people he can can talk to or things he can read. Put all that passion for the story in the game.
Make me care about Cortona and the Chief again. Their relationship is Halo.
(Puts on flame suit). Make split screen and option only for XBox One X. That way the game will still look great on the original Xbox One and give people the option if it's really important to them.
100% Chief
MP was great just get rid of the card system, better maps and some tweaking.
If they are sticking with the Prometheans make the next group more intelligent and emotional. Hearing the enemy talk and react to you and each other is what helped make the earlier games be more immersive and fun.
Tell the story in the damn game. All the extra crap while it was cool, ended up being pointless. If you want to flesh out the world have a radio playing that the chief can listen to, people he can can talk to or things he can read. Put all that passion for the story in the game.
Make me care about Cortona and the Chief again. Their relationship is Halo.
(Puts on flame suit). Make split screen and option only for XBox One X. That way the game will still look great on the original Xbox One and give people the option if it's really important to them.
Yu Furealdo
Member
Here are my thoughts after recently playing through the Halo 4 and 5 campaigns for the first time:
Either 343 are very creatively limited in a corporate sense (every single decision is made while thinking about appeal and money rather than what is interesting), or they really just have no idea what they are doing. My guess is it's probably a mix of both.
Iirc, didn't they hire someone new in charge of the story for Halo 6? That would have been a good start.
Halo 5 was almost completely devoid of any atmosphere or personality, but it wasn't just the writer's fault. They managed to make the covenant so boring to fight (they barely move or make a peep). And whoever's idea it was to start the game with spartans running down a snowy hill and killing enemies like they are the Avengers... for shame. Halo 4 was better in terms of tone.
My hope is that 343 are working hard to make something interesting. Even copying the tone and feel of the original Halo games would be better than what they've done.
Either 343 are very creatively limited in a corporate sense (every single decision is made while thinking about appeal and money rather than what is interesting), or they really just have no idea what they are doing. My guess is it's probably a mix of both.
Iirc, didn't they hire someone new in charge of the story for Halo 6? That would have been a good start.
Halo 5 was almost completely devoid of any atmosphere or personality, but it wasn't just the writer's fault. They managed to make the covenant so boring to fight (they barely move or make a peep). And whoever's idea it was to start the game with spartans running down a snowy hill and killing enemies like they are the Avengers... for shame. Halo 4 was better in terms of tone.
My hope is that 343 are working hard to make something interesting. Even copying the tone and feel of the original Halo games would be better than what they've done.
Deputy Moonman
Member
They have only themselves to blame for that. Instead of making a Halo game they tried to make halo 4 and 5 more like other fps games. Now they have a small minority of fans that would be upset if 343 went back to a traditional halo game versus the massive influx of people who would be thrilled. Unfortunately they need to pick a game and stick to it, which means traditional halo is dead. I still think 343 just needs to split halo into 2 games. Keep one in the direction they'd like to take halo, and keep the other one unperverted from lame outside ideas. Best of both worlds for fans. They could even alternate releases every couple of years. Its the one thing that 343 could incorporate from call of duty that I'd actually be okay with.
The Promeathans are still awful. The soldiers are just slightly above the cannon fodder dogs in terms of challenge. They didnt really fix any issues. They only served to highlight that the Promeathans were poorly designed in Halo 4 and the bandaid in Halo 5 was minimizing the importance and appearance of the Knights. The Promeathans still arent fun to fight.
A big part of the problem is the AI. Enemy AI in 343s game is simpler and less dynamic than the enemy AI in Bungies games.
A big part of the problem is the AI. Enemy AI in 343s game is simpler and less dynamic than the enemy AI in Bungies games.
blue_phazon
Member
Make the Halo campaign progression the same as Metroid.
- be stuck on exotic alien location (like Halo Ring)
- explore to gather Spartan abilities
- use Spartan abilities to open paths you couldn't before
- have interconnected areas with shortcuts you unlock
- big ass motherfucking alien boss battles that are mechanic-based instead of bullet sponges
- be stuck on exotic alien location (like Halo Ring)
- explore to gather Spartan abilities
- use Spartan abilities to open paths you couldn't before
- have interconnected areas with shortcuts you unlock
- big ass motherfucking alien boss battles that are mechanic-based instead of bullet sponges
I'm semi joking but semi serious
According to Glassdoor reviews (big, big grain of salt), the studio was a little aimless coming off of 5. Considering the fact that Halo 5 IS a pretty aimless game, I believe it. I think they need to step back and reconsider their vision for Halo. Campaign needs to be rebuilt from scratch. They gotta swing big. Or, alternatively, they go backwards and try to replicate the old formula. That sounds way less exciting to me, but either way they have to do something. No one is excited about where Halo's story is going, and that sucks.
NippleViking
Banned
There's a lot of 'can happen', 'can happen' but not a lot of why it should happen. Though I do think we're actually on a similar page, and your definition of open-world is just a bit more loose than mine (which is rather anal).
I am absolutely an advocate for significantly larger playspaces, with in-numerous approaches, and having exploration as a fundamental mechanic. But your example of GTA 5 and player behavior is totally antithetical to what I'd personally want from a Halo game. I don't believe you can have feasibly have an open world (as in a truly open-world) without compromising the tightness and focus of the experience in some way. Halo shouldn't be a 'go wherever you want' game. It should have a clear objective and problem - ultimately a focused trajectory - but with an open approach and solution. This could be pulled off with tightly designed open spaces to great effect, but a truly open-world game would simply be a liability here.
Personally I'd consider very little of your list truly open-world, though I'll concede that Halo could - and definitely should - take queues from several of the games you've listed. Dishonored and Deus Ex in terms of that open but linear design; Wildlands and Stalker for encounters.
There's a bit of talk of 'aimlessness', but there's so much more talk of 'Suits meddling and forcing deadlines'. I'd be very, very surprised if we didn't get a Halo game next year.
I think it's far more likely they're waiting until the game is appropriately polished for showing, and the narrative + mechanics are nailed down, so that they can deliver a concentrated marketing plan through to launch. Halo 5's premature reveal (they were teasing the future of Halo 30 months prior to release ffs) really hurt them. And while ultimately beneficial for the end-product, the early beta (which was a bonafide beta, and not a polished Demo) made for a very limp first showing [of gameplay]. On top of this, they need it all primed and ready to be a One X showcase, and to woo PC gamers.
Feel_The_Pain
Member
Infuse Halo with dark souls.
Boom
Boom
Huge Succeeded
Banned
hopefully they're taking their time with H6 because they want to make it awesome
for me it's simple - I'll buy it on whatever platform has local mp and none that don't
for me it's simple - I'll buy it on whatever platform has local mp and none that don't